What would be the best way to improve weekend CPW service?

[Q10 Airport]

It feels like we are starting to re-hash arguments made earlier in this thread. Maybe the mods should do this:

[TheSubwayStation]

I haven't taken a complete count, but I suspect that most weekends there's a GO either on CPW itself or on the Concourse line (knocking out the B's north terminal) or between 145th and 168th (in which case the C usually terminates at 145th) or in the Cranberry tube area (requiring the A to cross to the local track at 59th) or on 53rd (diverting the E down 2nd). Any of those would knock out the B.

Well, I've checked the G.O.s most weekends and I would guess from my experience that while those service changes are fairly common, most weekends don't have them. I do think that increasing service would do the trick. I mean, having the run every 10 minutes (like it currently does) isn't that terrible to begin with, so I'm thinking that running it every 8 minutes would do the trick. The more that I think about this, I realize that running the or the local would overserve CPW.

[Quill Depot]

The goal is to make the train less crowded, not to make it faster.

 

 

I understand.

 

Extra trains could short turn but that would be hard. I feel there needs to be express stops on CPW, still.

[Guest Lance]

How would it be hard to short turn a C-train? The World Trade Center is always available, as is 2 Av in the off-chance they're doing work around the area. And what do you mean there needs to be an express on Central Park West? There are two of them, both of which run seven days a week. The problem is not that express service is hard to come by. It's the lack of local service on Central Park West.

 

The C runs 6TPH every day. Not that's not a problem when you got the B backing it up on the weekdays, but during the weekend, it's probably annoying as hell, especially when you see A and D-trains flying by on the express tracks. Now, I'm not saying that the D needs to run local to compensate for the lack of B-service. Or the A for that matter. If it were up to me, I'd start with beefing up the C to 7-8 minute headways from its current 10 minute ones. It solves the Central Park West problem, as well as the Fulton St one. And if it's determined that the Fulton St local station don't need that much service, short turning some trains at the World Trade Center is always an option. If it turns out that the C alone doesn't help the problem on CPW, then we can look into other options, like running a shortened B or making the D local on CPW.

 

And before some wise ass brings it up, I'm speaking purely hypothetical here. Obviously none of what I just typed is going to happen any time soon. So you don't have to mention it.

[Quill Depot]

How would it be hard to short turn a C-train? The World Trade Center is always available, as is 2 Av in the off-chance they're doing work around the area. And what do you mean there needs to be an express on Central Park West? There are two of them, both of which run seven days a week. The problem is not that express service is hard to come by. It's the lack of local service on Central Park West.

 

The C runs 6TPH every day. Not that's not a problem when you got the B backing it up on the weekdays, but during the weekend, it's probably annoying as hell, especially when you see A and D-trains flying by on the express tracks. Now, I'm not saying that the D needs to run local to compensate for the lack of B-service. Or the A for that matter. If it were up to me, I'd start with beefing up the C to 7-8 minute headways from its current 10 minute ones. It solves the Central Park West problem, as well as the Fulton St one. And if it's determined that the Fulton St local station don't need that much service, short turning some trains at the World Trade Center is always an option. If it turns out that the C alone doesn't help the problem on CPW, then we can look into other options, like running a shortened B or making the D local on CPW.

 

And before some wise ass brings it up, I'm speaking purely hypothetical here. Obviously none of what I just typed is going to happen any time soon. So you don't have to mention it.

 

 

Your right about short turned trains. The problem is: people don't understand. They think their train is gonna go to Brooklyn. When a comes in the station they're used to the ending at Euclid.

 

It'd be easier for people if it used a different letter. They wouldn't be so pissed. It could be called the . It runs during rush and on the weekend. Runs like 2 or 3 tph.

 

And the express: express stop. At maybe 86th. Sorry if you misunderstood me.

[NX Express]

Not the again, please.

 

The problem with short-turning some trains is that it's going to create uneven intervals in Brooklyn.

 

For example, here's how trains will run

in Manhattan. to EUC - 8 min - to WTC - 8 min - to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - 8 min - to WTC - 8 min -

and in Bklyn_ to EUC - ...............16 min................ - to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - ...............16 min................ -

 

Uneven intervals don't work too well.

[Threxx]

Your right about short turned trains. The problem is: people don't understand. They think their train is gonna go to Brooklyn. When a comes in the station they're used to the ending at Euclid.

 

It'd be easier for people if it used a different letter. They wouldn't be so pissed. It could be called the . It runs during rush and on the weekend. Runs like 2 or 3 tph.

 

And the express: express stop. At maybe 86th. Sorry if you misunderstood me.

 

 

YES! THIS WAS EXACTLY MY IDEA!!!! FINALLY! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!

[Quill Depot]

Not the again, please.

 

The problem with short-turning some trains is that it's going to create uneven intervals in Brooklyn.

 

For example, here's how trains will run

in Manhattan. to EUC - 8 min - to WTC - 8 min - to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - 8 min - to WTC - 8 min -

and in Bklyn_ to EUC - ...............16 min................ - to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - ...............16 min................ -

 

Uneven intervals don't work too well.

 

 

My idea of the is a manhattan only train. It's your idea but the replaces the letter for the to WTC. Make it easier for people to know which train is going to Brooklyn and which train is going to WTC. Plus, the is already in the R32 rollsign and flipdot. Extra trains are added.

[Threxx]

Not the again, please.

 

The problem with short-turning some trains is that it's going to create uneven intervals in Brooklyn.

 

For example, here's how trains will run

in Manhattan. to EUC - 8 min - to WTC - 8 min - to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - 8 min - to WTC - 8 min -

and in Bklyn_ to EUC - ...............16 min................ - to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - ...............16 min................ -

 

Uneven intervals don't work too well.

 

 

How will this create uneven intervals? if the is 3-4 TPH, and the remains at 6-7:

 

In Manhattan: to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - 6 min - to WTC - 2 min - to EUC, repeat.

In Brooklyn: to EUC - 6-8 min - to EUC - 6-8 min, repeat.

 

You have it wrong...

 

My idea of the is a manhattan only train. It's your idea but the replaces the letter for the to WTC. Make it easier for people to know which train is going to Brooklyn and which train is going to WTC. Plus, the is already in the R32 rollsign and flipdot. Extra trains are added.

 

 

Every letter is in the signs on the R32's, BTW...

[Quill Depot]

The TPH of the is 18-19, and the is 6-7.

 

 

For anyone's reference.

____________________________________

 

I've seen packed trains and empty trains at 42nd St on a weekend last year.

 

Every letter is in the signs on the R32's, BTW...

 

 

Not on the roll signs. The IRT letters are not on the rollsigns. The flipdot, yes.

[Threxx]

For anyone's reference.

____________________________________

 

1. I've seen packed trains and empty trains at 42nd St on a weekend last year.

 

2. Not on the roll signs. The IRT letters are not on the rollsigns. The flipdot, yes.

 

 

1. That was a weekend, not rush hour. The TPH's I posted were for rush hour. Secondly, that's one experience. The is normally the empty train. Finally, didn't you read what I said? 18-19 TPH is necessary.

 

2. I said letters... not numbers...

[NX Express]

How will this create uneven intervals? if the is 3-4 TPH, and the remains at 6-7:

 

In Manhattan: to EUC - 8 min - to EUC - 6 min - to WTC - 2 min - to EUC, repeat.

 

 

That looks quite uneven to me.

[Threxx]

That looks quite uneven to me.

 

 

Well, it's better than what we currently have...

[NX Express]

What's so complicated with just making the run every 8 minutes? Why introduce s and short-turn s and other odd patterns?

[Threxx]

What's so complicated with just making the run every 8 minutes? Why introduce s and short-turn s and other odd patterns?

 

 

Isn't that what it already does? We're saying that's not enough, and sending more trains to Brooklyn won't help. We need the trains to stay in Manhattan and/or the Bronx so they can service CPW faster.

[NX Express]

It currently runs every 10 minutes. Running every 8 minutes is a 25% capacity boost. Interestingly, running 10 car trains every 10 minutes, instead of 8 car trains every 8 minutes, is also a 25% boost.

 

So 10-car trains every 8 minutes would be 75 cars per hour, or a 56% increase over what we have now. No need for trains or whatever else.

[Threxx]

It currently runs every 10 minutes. Running every 8 minutes is a 25% capacity boost. Interestingly, running 10 car trains every 10 minutes, instead of 8 car trains every 8 minutes, is also a 25% boost.

 

So 10-car trains every 8 minutes would be 75 cars per hour, or a 56% increase over what we have now. No need for trains or whatever else.

 

 

You see cars for 10 car trains hiding somewhere? I certainly don't. The would turn faster and provide a faster option. I would also want to increase service, but can the afford to do it on the whole line?

[NX Express]

You see cars for 10 car trains hiding somewhere? I certainly don't. The would turn faster and provide a faster option. I would also want to increase service, but can the afford to do it on the whole line?

 

 

They're not hiding anywhere, because the is currently 600 ft because of the 32s and their AC problems. Clearly, there are enough cars for 600 ft trains.

[Threxx]

They're not hiding anywhere, because the is currently 10 cars because of the 32s and their AC problems. Clearly, there are enough cars for 10-car trains.

 

 

Well, if the swap was to remain like this, that would help in and of itself. However, that's still not enough. The best solution is to increase service, but we're not sure if the has money to increase service over the whole line.

[Vistausss]

So apperantly NX Express, you favor a lack of service over a service with an uneven interval? Seems nuts to me. Uneven intervals can work well if implemented the right way and then it actually shows the benefit over the current lack of service.

 

Btw, 10 min vs 8 min interval is also a bit BS. It doesn't really give the boost the actual riders are looking for.

[NX Express]

So apperantly NX Express, you favor a lack of service over a service with an uneven interval? Seems nuts to me. Uneven intervals can work well if implemented the right way and then it actually shows the benefit over the current lack of service.

 

Service with such a drastically uneven interval will be very wasteful, since the train that's 2 minutes behind its leader will be empty, and not help almost at all.

 

Btw, 10 min vs 8 min interval is also a bit BS. It doesn't really give the boost the actual riders are looking for.

 

So what boost are they looking for? What service do they want?

[Guest Lance]

Here's why you don't want to have uneven intervals. On the short end, you got trains bunching up together, causing way too many delays for the line in question as well as the other lines that share tracks with it. On the other end, waiting ten to 15 minutes for a train, which is quite possible given that unexpected things occur at random in the subway, is hardly a picnic for anyone. Not the riders who are stuck waiting forever for a train, not the train crews who have to deal with crush-loaded trains and door-holding issues and not dispatch as their trains will constantly reach their terminals late for the aforementioned reasons.

[realizm]

Guys hurry please come into one accord with a solution for a fellow straphanger. Send the solution to the MTA chairman, quickly. Lol I'm dying on the D train at night trying to escape the hell of my job....

[NX Express]

It's not like any of this has a realistic chance of happening, given the MTA's fiscal situation.

[Threxx]

It's not like any of this has a realistic chance of happening, given the MTA's fiscal situation.

 

 

It never hurts to try.