MTA to bring back subway, bus and commuter rail service slashed in 2010

[VWM]

But.... Greenport weekend service needs to better before it gets extended into the winter IMO

[lilbluefoxie]

No, the MTA has specifically said that the Farmingdale trains will only make NYP, Jamaica, Mineola, Hicksville, Bethpage, Farmingdale.

 

How well does 12 cars work on the Port Wash? IIRC, every platform on that line is 10 cars long, and off peak travelers tend not to walk to other cars for seats. I was on a weekend NEC train and I was one of around 15 people in the first car, judging by the crowds on the platforms the 9 cars behind me were probably SRO.

 

 

Where did they say that, I saw everything on that press release and nothing indicated it was only mineola and hicksville on the main line. Either way I am very much looking forward to the service increase at Bethpage, I like using Bethpage station over Hicksville because its cleaner and doesnt have that long staircase but the off peak service is too infrequent.

 

The 12 Cars they do use on the Port Washington branch during peak times, people will sit in the 11th and 12th car if they are going from penn or woodside to the last stop, be it Great Neck or Port Washington. Flushing Main Street might be 12 cars as well, im not sure.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is why I'm no fan of the . For some reason they've always given LI the short end of the stick.

 

Oh I'd beg to differ... NYC has been getting the short end of the stick for YEARS... They've been raping I mean "charging" Staten Island residents for years, with the Verrazano having some of the highest tolls in the country, and most of that money NYC doesn't see. It has been going to support Long Island's transportation, particularly the LIRR. As a MetroNorth rider and an express bus rider, I quite frankly am tired of paying damn there $10.00 one way to stand on the train. We need more service and they should expand the service to run past 02:00 in the morning back to Riverdale.

[Amtrak7]

The 12 Cars they do use on the Port Washington branch during peak times, people will sit in the 11th and 12th car if they are going from penn or woodside to the last stop, be it Great Neck or Port Washington. Flushing Main Street might be 12 cars as well, im not sure.

 

 

All stops are 10 cars, except for Murray Hill which is 4 and Woodside which is 12. WB trains at Little Neck/EB trains at Little Neck open the front 10 instead of the rear 10, but that's only two stops!

 

Oh I'd beg to differ... NYC has been getting the short end of the stick for YEARS... They've been raping I mean "charging" Staten Island residents for years, with the Verrazano having some of the highest tolls in the country, and most of that money NYC doesn't see. It has been going to support Long Island's transportation, particularly the LIRR. As a MetroNorth rider and an express bus rider, I quite frankly am tired of paying damn there $10.00 one way to stand on the train. We need more service and they should expand the service to run past 02:00 in the morning back to Riverdale.

 

 

There is also a standee problem on the LIRR, and the fares are the same. MNR has a lot more service than LIRR does, with a much better physical plant. And MNR doesn't really have a standee problem, its just because of uneven loading (since GCT is exclusively rear-loading vs NYP which has stairs throughout even though most people board the front) and people not taking the middle seat. LIRR meanwhile sends out a handful of trains a day that have true standees (i.e. every seat is taken and there are more)

 

They make the one way astronomical knowing that nobody wants to drive and pay tolls into NYC, while they give a huge discount on the monthlies (it pays for itself in 21-22 rides).

 

LIRR night service is really low ridership, I personally think they should cut late night service on all the small branches, leaving only Huntington, Ronkonkoma, Babylon, and Port Wash. Metro-North should add local hourly or 90min night service to Poughkeepsie, Mt Kisco, and NHV.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There is also a standee problem on the LIRR, and the fares are the same. MNR has a lot more service than LIRR does, with a much better physical plant. And MNR doesn't really have a standee problem, its just because of uneven loading (since GCT is exclusively rear-loading vs NYP which has stairs throughout even though most people board the front) and people not taking the middle seat. LIRR meanwhile sends out a handful of trains a day that have true standees (i.e. every seat is taken and there are more)

 

They make the one way astronomical knowing that nobody wants to drive and pay tolls into NYC, while they give a huge discount on the monthlies (it pays for itself in 21-22 rides).

 

LIRR night service is really low ridership, I personally think they should cut late night service on all the small branches, leaving only Huntington, Ronkonkoma, Babylon, and Port Wash. Metro-North should add local hourly or 90min night service to Poughkeepsie, Mt Kisco, and NHV.

 

 

Uh, excuse me, but we've got record ridership on MetroNorth and there are often times standees when the train reaches to my station at Spuyten Duyvil, so we have most certainly do have a standee problem and need more service. As for stations being built out well, that is not true of the Spuyten Duyvil station. Parking is scarce, so most folks either walk if their condo or co-op is close to the station, or take the Hudson Rail Link.

 

As for adding service late at night I think hourly service would be fine on MetroNorth. As for the LIRR, I disagree with you. Every year I'm invited for networking dinners at the Oheka Castle in Huntington and I rely on the LIRR to get me back to the city. The last time I went I took an a late train back (something like an 23:00 train or something) and yes I was the only one in the car, but there were still enough folks riding that need it. Quite frankly it would be absurd to cut LIRR service late at night. How are people supposed to get to or from the city? Sometimes I don't think you think at all. I mean everytime something has low ridership, you automatically think it should be cut. If we did that every time, a lot of people would be screwed. You have people that work at odd hours or just want to go to the city and hang out late or whatever and people need to get around. I wonder if you would be so quick to call for cuts if those cuts affected you?

[checkmatechamp13]

Uh, excuse me, but we've got record ridership on MetroNorth and there are often times standees when the train reaches to my station at Spuyten Duyvil, so we have most certainly do have a standee problem and need more service. As for stations being built out well, that is not true of the Spuyten Duyvil station. Parking is scarce, so most folks either walk if their condo or co-op is close to the station, or take the Hudson Rail Link.

 

As for adding service late at night I think hourly service would be fine on MetroNorth. As for the LIRR, I disagree with you. Every year I'm invited for networking dinners at the Oheka Castle in Huntington and I rely on the LIRR to get me back to the city. The last time I went I took an a late train back (something like an 23:00 train or something) and yes I was the only one in the car, but there were still enough folks riding that need it. Quite frankly it would be absurd to cut LIRR service late at night. How are people supposed to get to or from the city? Sometimes I don't think you think at all. I mean everytime something has low ridership, you automatically think it should be cut. If we did that every time, a lot of people would be screwed. You have people that work at odd hours or just want to go to the city and hang out late or whatever and people need to get around. I wonder if you would be so quick to call for cuts if those cuts affected you?

 

 

He's not talking about parking at the station. He's talking about where the stairs are and how the people spread themselves out across the trains.

 

And the people on those little branches can still make their way to a main branch.

 

And yes, actually, he has called for cuts in his own area when he mentioned the N78.

[Amtrak7]

I take a crowded LIRR train every morning. I see the standees. I've been on MNR weekend NHV trains that have plenty of them. But I know that they aren't true standees. The ridership stats show it.

 

And by overnight service I mean 0100-0500, not 2300. Example: The 2AM dp Jamaica to Hempstead carries 20 people. The westbound from Far Rockaway arriving Jamaica 2:19AM carries 10 people.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I take a crowded LIRR train every morning. I see the standees. I've been on MNR weekend NHV trains that have plenty of them. But I know that they aren't true standees. The ridership stats show it.

 

Oh please... You're comparing a morning LIRR train to a MNR weekend train? Give me a break. Come get the 09:22 at Spuyten Duyvil on a Monday morning and you can stand with me on the train. Better yet, why don't you take the Shuttle bus to Spuyten Duyvil? I'll get on earlier at Riverdale and 236th and you can get on at a later stop along Henry Hudson Parkway so you can stand on the shuttle bus and then you can stand on the MNR train as well.

 

And by overnight service I mean 0100-0500, not 2300. Example: The 2AM dp Jamaica to Hempstead carries 20 people. The westbound from Far Rockaway arriving Jamaica 2:19AM carries 10 people.

 

So what if it does? Like I said before there are people that work or have things to do at night and NEED the service. You know there is NOTHING besides the LIRR and you suggest cutting it. Even if you've made suggestions to cut things in your own backyard, I doubt you travel at that time on a regular basis, so therefore you wouldn't care because it wouldn't affect you personally. Typical. When you get older and start traveling at all sorts of hours you'll understand things better. I used to work at night when I was younger and was preparing to study abroad, so I know how important overnight service is.

[Shortline Bus]

I take a crowded LIRR train every morning. I see the standees. I've been on MNR weekend NHV trains that have plenty of them. But I know that they aren't true standees. The ridership stats show it.

 

And by overnight service I mean 0100-0500, not 2300. Example: The 2AM dp Jamaica to Hempstead carries 20 people. The westbound from Far Rockaway arriving Jamaica 2:19AM carries 10 people.

 

 

Amtrak not every trip but on friday/saturday nights (sat./sunday mornings) i been on a 5-6 car 1:55am often northbound from GCT-Croton a few standees on every car. While not Rush hour SRO or daytime SRO, it proves that a later train leaving Manhattan is needed.

I agree with VG8 that at least an exrta 3am train on all '3' lines could run to Stamford, North White Plains and Croton 7 days a week. And MNRR staff would still have 2 hours to clean the stations.

 

I also agree with VG8, its management not wanting to spend the $$$ when they damn know a 3am Northbound train would get riders. This is not 1983 or even 1999 anymore.

[Amtrak7]

Amtrak not every trip but on friday/saturday nights (sat./sunday mornings) i been on a 5-6 car 1:55am often northbound from GCT-Croton a few standees on every car. While not Rush hour SRO or daytime SRO, it proves that a later train leaving Manhattan is needed.

I agree with VG8 that at least an exrta 3am train on all '3' lines could run to Stamford, North White Plains and Croton 7 days a week. And MNRR staff would still have 2 hours to clean the stations.

 

I also agree with VG8, its management not wanting to spend the $$$ when they damn know a 3am Northbound train would get riders. This is not 1983 or even 1999 anymore.

 

 

The Hudson Line is not the Hempstead Branch. I don't support removing all overnight service, as I said above I believe MNR should add late night service to POU, NHV, and Mt Kisco.

[Shortline Bus]

Why Mt. Kisco Amtrak for proposed Harlem MNRR terminal overnights? It be diffuclt to turn around to either the White plains or southeast yards.

[Amtrak7]

Would there be enough ridership to warrant 7-day overnight service to Southeast? NWP is too short, IMO.

[Shortline Bus]

Would there be enough ridership to warrant 7-day overnight service to Southeast? NWP is too short, IMO.

 

 

IMO yes. Besides the SE Yards/Brewester yards, you got to remember SE and Brewester is next door to Danbury area(15-minute drive via I-84). So You also probably get Danbury riders as well. The New Haven Danbury has limited service not running past 10-11pm.

[PinePower]

But.... Greenport weekend service needs to better before it gets extended into the winter IMO

 

 

I can tell you ridership is up on that Greenport Branch. Fridays and weekends the trains are SRO. Although there are two cars, only one is usually left open because the other one doesn't make the platform, and passengers that would sit in there would complain about missing their stop. At least according to what I was told by the ppl on the train.

The whole area is becoming "Hamptons North", judging by the crowd on these trains. I think the Jury Duty specials, which probably carry no one, need to be canned in favor of restored year round weekend service. They need to bring back the 9am weekday train out to Greenport, then have service every 3 hours till 8pm. Other captial improvements should be longer platforms at Riverhead, Matituck, and Southold, and a new station at Tanger Outlets. The fact is the trains ARE getting very crowded yet service remains abysmal. Most companies would use this opportunity to improve service, but not the .

[Amtrak7]

How's off-season ridership east of Riverhead?

 

The Juror special may be little used, but it was asked for by Riverhead for years. It doesn't cost the LIRR anything, and provides an extra inbound from Riverhead. When making plans for the Greenport Branch, keep in mind that only one train can be in service on the branch at any given time (layover at Greenport/Riverhead sidings excepted). A 2-hour headway to Riverhead is not achievable. 3 hour service to Greenport isn't possible because there would only be 5min recovery time at each terminal.

 

Even if crew costs weren't an issue, how would you schedule around these limitations? The pre-2010 schedule is probably the best it gets.

[PinePower]

How's off-season ridership east of Riverhead?

 

The Juror special may be little used, but it was asked for by Riverhead for years. It doesn't cost the LIRR anything, and provides an extra inbound from Riverhead. When making plans for the Greenport Branch, keep in mind that only one train can be in service on the branch at any given time (layover at Greenport/Riverhead sidings excepted). A 2-hour headway to Riverhead is not achievable. 3 hour service to Greenport isn't possible because there would only be 5min recovery time at each terminal.

 

Even if crew costs weren't an issue, how would you schedule around these limitations? The pre-2010 schedule is probably the best it gets.

 

The problem is when they instituted the Juror special, they removed the 9am train to Greenport, making the later trains more crowded. That only one train is allowed on that stretch is a major problem. Right now I'd be satisfied with the return of year round weekend service and the restoration of the 9am train. But in order to restore the 9am, the Jury duty specials have to be canned. The big deal with these is they have no eastbound connections, which hurts the ridership. In order to catch the first train, you have to get a train several hours earlier. Of course the LIRR could provide a bus bridge from that train that ends in Farmingdale just after 7am. But they dont.

[lilbluefoxie]

Suffolk Transit should move the S92 to end in Ronkonkoma instead as an alternate to Greenport's bad service

[Amtrak7]

The problem is when they instituted the Juror special, they removed the 9am train to Greenport, making the later trains more crowded. That only one train is allowed on that stretch is a major problem. Right now I'd be satisfied with the return of year round weekend service and the restoration of the 9am train. But in order to restore the 9am, the Jury duty specials have to be canned. The big deal with these is they have no eastbound connections, which hurts the ridership. In order to catch the first train, you have to get a train several hours earlier. Of course the LIRR could provide a bus bridge from that train that ends in Farmingdale just after 7am. But they dont.

 

 

The 9AM train to Greenport was never removed, just made later.

 

And could we take some hints from the Tall Ships schedule? If only that day wasn't plagued with breakdowns it would've set an example of the maximum possible scheduling of the branch.

[lilbluefoxie]

The 9AM train to Greenport was never removed, just made later.

 

And could we take some hints from the Tall Ships schedule? If only that day wasn't plagued with breakdowns it would've set an example of the maximum possible scheduling of the branch.

 

 

the issue with that schedule, if I remember right, a lot of those trains did not connect to Ronkonkoma they just went Riverhead to Greenport. if they could get a second platform built somewhere in the middle of the line, perhaps riverhead where there is a passing siding, they could run more service, even with manual block, Montauk branch is manual block east of Speonk and they have a passing siding around Southhampton station

[PinePower]

Suffolk Transit should move the S92 to end in Ronkonkoma instead as an alternate to Greenport's bad service

 

 

Well I would probably can the S110 Clipper which hardly anyone takes, and use those buses for a Riverhead clipper. It would stop at Ronkonkoma LIRR, via LIE with a stop on the service road at Rt.112 (for ppl transfering from S61), then Exit 73, via Rt.58 stopping at Tanger and all points to Riverhead County center (probably via S58 routing). A significant amt of people actually make the trek from Ronk to Riverhead, alot of ppl xfer between the 6A and S58. I really am baffled as to why the county hasn't eyed this route, it seems when it comes to east end service, something keeps holding it back (probably HJ who pays $$ off to officials).

Here's an opportunity for the county to actually steal some passengers from the and they arent doing it. In summer the Riverhead Clipper (could call it S100) would also stop at Splish Splash, much to the chagrin of North Fork Xpress, which profits nicely from the deal they have with the LIRR. It just seems between the county and the MTA east end service improvements are always held back and to me something stinks real bad about it...

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

What if they restored the West Hempstead to Valley Stream route, instead of sending it all the way to Jamaica?

 

useless your better off with N15 to rockville centre LIRR which has way more trains running to penn that is why ridership was low. Crappy service and the kicker requires a transfer at valley stream where you wait. N15 is scheduled with 5 mins before train arrives or timed where there is almost no wait at all and N15 & babylon line are way more frequent than the west hempstead line. It was outright useless in its current shuttle form who wants to make a train transfer just to get to jamacia or take 2 or 3 LIRR trains? exactly You had 2 options for brooklyn N15 to hempstead for direct brooklyn service Or N15 to rockville centre for train to penn and transfer for brooklyn at jamacia 15 to 20 30 min service on N15/rockville centre vs almost bihourly service even hourly borderline at rush and at off peak you still transfer at valley stream thats 3 trains to reach brooklyn or 2 for penn or 3 for penn and 2 for brooklyn exactly.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

All stops are 10 cars, except for Murray Hill which is 4 and Woodside which is 12. WB trains at Little Neck/EB trains at Little Neck open the front 10 instead of the rear 10, but that's only two stops!

 

 

 

There is also a standee problem on the LIRR, and the fares are the same. MNR has a lot more service than LIRR does, with a much better physical plant. And MNR doesn't really have a standee problem, its just because of uneven loading (since GCT is exclusively rear-loading vs NYP which has stairs throughout even though most people board the front) and people not taking the middle seat. LIRR meanwhile sends out a handful of trains a day that have true standees (i.e. every seat is taken and there are more)

 

They make the one way astronomical knowing that nobody wants to drive and pay tolls into NYC, while they give a huge discount on the monthlies (it pays for itself in 21-22 rides).

 

LIRR night service is really low ridership, I personally think they should cut late night service on all the small branches, leaving only Huntington, Ronkonkoma, Babylon, and Port Wash. Metro-North should add local hourly or 90min night service to Poughkeepsie, Mt Kisco, and NHV.

 

You do realize the minor branches dont have night service? Only ronkonkoma and huntington and babylon are 24/7 based on the schedules other lines have very limited night service that gets CRUSHED with drunks cutting that aint safe.

 

 

I can tell you ridership is up on that Greenport Branch. Fridays and weekends the trains are SRO. Although there are two cars, only one is usually left open because the other one doesn't make the platform, and passengers that would sit in there would complain about missing their stop. At least according to what I was told by the ppl on the train.

The whole area is becoming "Hamptons North", judging by the crowd on these trains. I think the Jury Duty specials, which probably carry no one, need to be canned in favor of restored year round weekend service. They need to bring back the 9am weekday train out to Greenport, then have service every 3 hours till 8pm. Other captial improvements should be longer platforms at Riverhead, Matituck, and Southold, and a new station at Tanger Outlets. The fact is the trains ARE getting very crowded yet service remains abysmal. Most companies would use this opportunity to improve service, but not the .

 

amen preach this is a ligitimate gripe you have the right to bitch and rant about this train the maximum service you can have on greenport is 90 min frequencies with a 2nd platform for riverhead. But the scoot may create a 2nd track as part of service improvement.

Suffolk Transit should move the S92 to end in Ronkonkoma instead as an alternate to Greenport's bad service

 

Funny you say that my LI East plan I wrote includes just that!!! It splits S92 into 2 and has one branch merge with the S110 clipper and absorb it originating at east hampton. The other greenport has a stop at ronkonkoma then goes somewhere else both stop at ronkonkoma.

[lilbluefoxie]

Oh there is definately something fishy going on up there, and i dont buy any of the excuses the mta is giving.

[qjtransitmaster]

Oh there is definately something fishy going on up there, and i dont buy any of the excuses the mta is giving.

 

bi hourly vs every 30 to 20 mins the west hempstead line just cant compete its pretty much useless untill it merges with central branch or oyster bay line to become usefull untill then its a redundant line.

[VWM]

Babylon trains are never not crowded. Babylon needs that 24/7 service. I take Weekend trains where I've gotten a seat, but other times I was a Standee. Main reason was the asshats who use an extra seat for their bag.