Southern Brooklyn Service Investments

[BrooklynBus]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2012/08/southern-brooklyn-service-investments/

[Shortline Bus]

http://www.sheepshea...ce-investments/

 

 

 

Allan please read PM. I think this should be merged with the MTA Going your way with good news thread which i already done. Let me know if this is a new topic or merged together? Thanks

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I actually think this should be its own topic, as there should be a discussion about the needs of Southern Brooklyn.

 

This is also an interesting article about the B37 perhaps being restored and the X28 as well on weekends.

 

http://www.homerepor...19bb2963f4.html

 

Allan, what I'm confused about is in one article, you praised Senator Golden for getting the B2 restored on weekends, something that I wrote to him about and pushed for as well, yet you keep talking about combining the B2 and the B100?

[Shortline Bus]

I actually think this should be its own topic, as there should be a discussion about the needs of Southern Brooklyn.

 

This is also an interesting article about the B37 perhaps being restored and the X28 as well on weekends.

 

http://www.homerepor...19bb2963f4.html

 

Allan, what I'm confused about is in one article, you praised Senator Golden for getting the B2 restored on weekends, something that I wrote to him about and pushed for as well, yet you keep talking about combining the B2 and the B100?

 

 

If the B37 returned it should be a weekday only route. Weekends/overnights the B37 drew flies on most trips. At least the ()' /> smartly from what i heard will be running the restored B39 weekdays 6am-10pm and weekends 7am-10pm with no overnight service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If the B37 returned it should be a weekday only route. Weekends/overnights the B37 drew flies on most trips. At least the ()' /> smartly from what i heard will be running the restored B39 weekdays 6am-10pm and weekends 7am-10pm with no overnight service.

 

 

Jesus... That's pretty pathetic for the B39... I would run it at least until midnight... As for the B37, it should have weekend service and I would have it run until 01:00 at night.

[Shortline Bus]

Jesus... That's pretty pathetic for the B39... I would run it at least until midnight... As for the B37, it should have weekend service and I would have it run until 01:00 at night.

 

 

Honestly VG8 were u on the B37 on weekends? I lived in Winsdor Terr. for a year in 2005-'06 before moving upstate. Also i use the "B37" occasional until it's end couple of times. The only area the B37 ever got ridership was in Bay Ridge/Sunset Park. On weekend evenings (going towards Downtown Brooklyn) I was the only rider.

 

Thus i disagree with bringing back weekend B37 especialy in industry area between 60th St and Hamilton Ave. I rather the "B63" be beefed up. Plus B35 agrees with me on no weekend B37 service as well.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Honestly VG8 were u on the B37 on weekends? I lived in Winsdor Terr. for a year in 2005-'06 before moving upstate. Also i use the "B37" occasional until it's end couple of times. The only area the B37 ever got ridership was in Bay Ridge/Sunset Park. On weekend evenings (going towards Downtown Brooklyn) I was the only rider.

 

Thus i disagree with bringing back weekend B37 especialy in industry area between 60th St and Hamilton Ave. I rather the "B63" be beefed up. Plus B35 agrees with me on no weekend B37 service as well.

 

 

Of course I've used the B37 on weekends... I visited Bay Ridge a lot when I lived in Sheepshead Bay and in Midwood as well. Not having the B37 run to serve Bay Ridge especially when it gets ridership there would be yet another example of Southern Brooklyn (particularly the more affluent areas) being shafted yet again by the MTA and that is why I've fought so hard to get express bus and local bus service back to those areas and why I'll continue to fight to see full restoration of the X28 to Dyker Heights, Bensonhurst & Bath Beach. If the poor areas of Brooklyn, and the up and coming areas of Brooklyn can get their bus service then so can Southern Brooklyn and I commend Senator Golden, Assembleywoman Mallitokis and representatives like Mr. Gentile for their ongoing roles in helping to fight for service for Southern Brooklyn.

[Shortline Bus]

Here my replies to Allan's proposals.

I like the "B31" extension but there should be another terminal besides 13th Avenue/Bay Ridge Avenue area which is middle of "nowwhere." Might as extend a few blocks and terminate it at the 62nd St subway station.

 

As far as splitting the B82, I always felt the pre B5/50 merger around 1995, the branch from Stillwell Terminal should end at the Rockaway Parkway station.

 

This is what I would do.

 

"B82" between Rockaway Parkway Station and Stilwell Terminal. Via Flatlands, Ralph, Avenue H, Kings Highway (replacing "B7" service *south of Utica/Ave H)then existing route to/from Coney Island.

 

"B81" aka "B50" between Coney Island Ave/Kings Highway and Gateway Mall (overnights only to Starret City/Spring Creek Towers)via Kings Highway, Flatbush, Flatlands, Rockaway Pwy station loop, Flatlands East, Penn, then via B83 routing to/from Gateway.

 

On "B2" I am neutral on it as I am not sure the (MTA)MTA)' /> will approve that drastic change extending it to Bensonhurst and also extend the "B31" to Boro Park? Main issue is if the NIMBY's in Mill Basin/Bergen Beach approve a "B2/B100" merger?

 

And the "Q51" routing. A better idea is to run it as say called the "B5" between Stillwell terminal and Mill Basin area such as serving Floyd Bennet Field. However other than summer weekends the "Q35" does not need an additional route just better headways.

 

And lastly with the "B4" I would extend it westbound to either 1)86th/4th station or 2)Lutheran Medical center area ("B11" Sunset Park Terminal) IMO The Knapp Street terminal is fine.

[Shortline Bus]

Of course I've used the B37 on weekends... I visited Bay Ridge a lot when I lived in Sheepshead Bay and in Midwood as well. Not having the B37 run to serve Bay Ridge especially when it gets ridership there would be yet another example of Southern Brooklyn (particularly the more affluent areas) being shafted yet again by the MTA and that is why I've fought so hard to get express bus and local bus service back to those areas and why I'll continue to fight to see full restoration of the X28 to Dyker Heights, Bensonhurst & Bath Beach. If the poor areas of Brooklyn, and the up and coming areas of Brooklyn can get their bus service then so can Southern Brooklyn.

 

 

What about fact late evenings 11pm-late night the B37 had zero riders? Do you want 24/7(which is unwarranted)B37 service VG8? If it had to run on weekends it should be done by 11pm.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What about fact late evenings 11pm-late night the B37 had zero riders? Do you want 24/7(which is unwarranted)B37 service VG8? If it had to run on weekends it should be done by 11pm.

 

 

While I don't think 24 hours is warranted, service should run until at least 01:00 7 days a week and it could be truncated at times to serve Bay Ridge residents since it doesn't get much usage on the Northern portion of the route, much like the Bx10 is truncated in Riverdale.

[Shortline Bus]

While I don't think 24 hours is warranted, service should run until at least 01:00 7 days a week and it could be truncated at times to serve Bay Ridge residents since it doesn't get much usage on the Northern portion of the route, much like the Bx10 is truncated in Riverdale.

 

 

You mean the BX7 between 207th/Bway station and Riverdale Ave/263th late evenings i.e 1130pm-1am(last bus) not the BX10 lol. If you proposed the B37 late evenings i.e 11pm-1am between 39th St/3rd Ave and Bay Ridge 7 days a week, that a fair compromise.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You mean the BX7 between 207th/Bway station and Riverdale Ave/263th late evenings i.e 1130pm-1am(last bus) not the BX10 lol. If you proposed the B37 late evenings i.e 11pm-1am between 39th St/3rd Ave and Bay Ridge 7 days a week, that a fair compromise.

 

 

No I do mean the Bx10... Most of them only run from Riverdale to 231st & Broadway at night and not all the way to Norwood since there isn't much demand for it.

[Shortline Bus]

No I do mean the Bx10... Most of them only run from Riverdale to 231st & Broadway at night and not all the way to Norwood since there isn't much demand for it.

 

 

Wrong again VG8. It's probably BX7 and BX10 going to the Kingsbridge yards on 215th and Bway in period between 11pm-1am. According to this schedule the Bx10 runs hourly the full route between Norwood ( 205th station) and Riverdale.

 

http://mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bronx/bx010cur.pdf

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wrong again VG8. It's probably BX7 and BX10 going to the Kingsbridge yards on 215th and Bway in period between 11pm-1am. According to this schedule the Bx10 runs hourly the full route between Norwood ( 205th station) and Riverdale.

 

http://mta.info/nyct...nx/bx010cur.pdf

 

 

Well I was going off of personal observations, not the actual schedule. Perhaps if the Bx10 didn't bunch so much I wouldn't have gotten that impression, but I see quite a few of them that only go to 231st & Broadway for some reason, far more than what the schedule seems to indicate. It's similar to what is seen with the M101, M102 and M103 lines... A lot of them should terminate at 8th street, but some don't.

[Shortline Bus]

VG8 any reactions to my b37 idea below?

 

 

If you proposed the B37 late evenings i.e 11pm-1am between 39th St/3rd Ave and Bay Ridge 7 days a week, that a fair compromise.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

VG8 any reactions to my b37 idea below?

 

I wouldn't even run it that far. Just let it serve Bay Ridge up to say 65th street and run as a shuttle.

[checkmatechamp13]

Apparently you didn't get the memo about the B70.....

[B35 via Church]

Why was my post deleted ?

 

So it was moved to the good news thread..... *shrugs*.....

I'm simply gonna repost it here, because it IS relevant to the blog BrooklynBus posted.

 

 

 

So we address new growth over the past five years before we address growth that occurred 50 years ago?

 

Yeah, that's a good point.... there are still holes in the bus network in south brooklyn, but they're adding new dinky little services to parts of north brooklyn that are growing..... I still can't get over the DUMBO/Navy yard one....

 

 

Allan, what I'm confused about is in one article, you praised Senator Golden for getting the B2 restored on weekends, something that I wrote to him about and pushed for as well, yet you keep talking about combining the B2 and the B100?

 

I have to agree with this.... If he's fixated on combining the B2 w/ the B100 through Marine Park or w/e, then there's not much of a point in wanting to want the B2 around on weekends......

 

I wanted the B2 back on weekends also (at the very least, on saturdays), but for a much different reason.... I noticed that a lot of mall goers weekends are taking B9's to/from the Brighton - and worse, that route's weekend span was reduced as well.... The 100 has nothin to do with any of this, which is why I'd leave it alone.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Now that I've devoured my calamari, I can respond... Senator Golden and I were of the belief that restoring as many local bus and express bus routes as possible for Southern Brooklyn were vital to each community's economy, but also to the economy as a whole. If people have a hard time getting around, they are less likely to go out and less likely to spend money and I can say that I am an example of that as there are certain places that I frequent less now than in the past due to service cuts. I used to use the B2 when I lived in Sheepshead Bay and the B9 when I lived in Midwood, so I'm aware of the importance of both routes. The thing that puzzles me is why has the B2's ridership dropped to a level that the MTA thought it was worth cutting weekend service? I don't to hear all of that about it needing to be extended? I want to hear about the existing route as it is and what happened suddenly that ridership dropped the way that it has?

[BrooklynBus]

The thing that puzzles me is why has the B2's ridership dropped to a level that the MTA thought it was worth cutting weekend service? I don't to hear all of that about it needing to be extended? I want to hear about the existing route as it is and what happened suddenly that ridership dropped the way that it has?

 

 

I covered that in either the first or second article I wrote about the B2 and why service used to be every 2 minutes in the rush hour. Briefly, there were a number of factors. Moving the B31 from Avenue U to Avenue R resulted in halving the B2 headways and additional service to the B3. The B9 extension was another major reason. The B3 used to operate every 20 minutes on Sundays. When service was increased to every 10 minutes, some going to Kings Plaza switched from the B2 to the B3. So the B3 and B9 became better alternatives. The fact that the B2 only connects with the B49 and B44 severely limits its usefulness.

 

As far as the conflict you mentioned, I don't see any. It makes no sense to operate a route on Quentin Road and another on Avenue R. While you might not save buses in the rush hours, you will at all other times by combining the services on one street. As far as complimenting Senator Golden for restoring weekend service to the B2, I believe that was a good thing and if extended westward, there would be a lot more riders using it. Currently during the off-peak, it is virtually deserted. I forgot to mention in the most recent article, that on weekends I would use a different routing for the combined B2/B100. I would use Fillmore as shown on the map for weekdays, but Flatbush and Avenue U on weekends so that it continues to pass Kings Plaza. That way Kings Plaza could be accessed directly from Mill Basin as well as Marine Park, something that can't be done now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I covered that in either the first or second article I wrote about the B2 and why service used to be every 2 minutes in the rush hour. Briefly, there were a number of factors. Moving the B31 from Avenue U to Avenue R resulted in halving the B2 headways and additional service to the B3. The B9 extension was another major reason. The B3 used to operate every 20 minutes on Sundays. When service was increased to every 10 minutes, some going to Kings Plaza switched from the B2 to the B3. So the B3 and B9 became better alternatives. The fact that the B2 only connects with the B49 and B44 severely limits its usefulness.

 

As far as the conflict you mentioned, I don't see any. It makes no sense to operate a route on Quentin Road and another on Avenue R. While you might not save buses in the rush hours, you will at all other times by combining the services on one street. As far as complimenting Senator Golden for restoring weekend service to the B2, I believe that was a good thing and if extended westward, there would be a lot more riders using it. Currently during the off-peak, it is virtually deserted. I forgot to mention in the most recent article, that on weekends I would use a different routing for the combined B2/B100. I would use Fillmore as shown on the map for weekdays, but Flatbush and Avenue U on weekends so that it continues to pass Kings Plaza. That way Kings Plaza could be accessed directly from Mill Basin as well as Marine Park, something that can't be done now.

 

 

What I don't get is how you can say that it was good for Golden to push for the B2 weekend restoration, but then argue that it got no ridership on weekends?

[B35 via Church]

It makes no sense to operate a route on Quentin Road and another on Avenue R. While you might not save buses in the rush hours, you will at all other times by combining the services on one street.

 

As far as complimenting Senator Golden for restoring weekend service to the B2, I believe that was a good thing and if extended westward, there would be a lot more riders using it. Currently during the off-peak, it is virtually deserted. I forgot to mention in the most recent article, that on weekends I would use a different routing for the combined B2/B100. I would use Fillmore as shown on the map for weekdays, but Flatbush and Avenue U on weekends so that it continues to pass Kings Plaza. That way Kings Plaza could be accessed directly from Mill Basin as well as Marine Park, something that can't be done now.

 

What makes no sense is combining the two routes - to then have it run a totally different routing on weekdays than on weekends....

 

All that illustrates to me is that you can't make up your mind on whether to keep the (combined) route on fillmore east of flatbush 7 days a week, or to have it run along av U & up flatbush 7 days a week.....

[BrooklynBus]

 

 

What makes no sense is combining the two routes - to then have it run a totally different routing on weekdays than on weekends....

 

All that illustrates to me is that you can't make up your mind on whether to keep the (combined) route on fillmore east of flatbush 7 days a week, or to have it run along av U & up flatbush 7 days a week.....

 

 

Simple. During the week most use the B100 to access the Brighton Line. It's important that they reach it as quickly as possible. Few use the B2 to access Kings Plaza anymore. On the weekends Kings Plaza is the more important destination. Currently Mill Basin residents can't even get to Kings Plaza with one bus unless they want to walk from Fillmore. The combination improves service for some and saves money. Few are inconvenienced.

[Shortline Bus]

No reaction guys to my SW Brooklyn proposals in reply to Allan?

 

Here my replies to Allan's proposals.

I like the "B31" extension but there should be another terminal besides 13th Avenue/Bay Ridge Avenue area which is middle of "nowwhere." Might as extend a few blocks and terminate it at the 62nd St subway station.

 

As far as splitting the B82, I always felt the pre B5/50 merger around 1995, the branch from Stillwell Terminal should end at the Rockaway Parkway station.

 

This is what I would do.

 

"B82" between Rockaway Parkway Station and Stilwell Terminal. Via Flatlands, Ralph, Avenue H, Kings Highway (replacing "B7" service *south of Utica/Ave H)then existing route to/from Coney Island.

 

"B81" aka "B50" between Coney Island Ave/Kings Highway and Gateway Mall (overnights only to Starret City/Spring Creek Towers)via Kings Highway, Flatbush, Flatlands, Rockaway Pwy station loop, Flatlands East, Penn, then via B83 routing to/from Gateway.

 

On "B2" I am neutral on it as I am not sure the (MTA)MTA)' /> will approve that drastic change extending it to Bensonhurst and also extend the "B31" to Boro Park? Main issue is if the NIMBY's in Mill Basin/Bergen Beach approve a "B2/B100" merger?

 

And the "Q51" routing. A better idea is to run it as say called the "B5" between Stillwell terminal and Mill Basin area such as serving Floyd Bennet Field. However other than summer weekends the "Q35" does not need an additional route just better headways.

 

And lastly with the "B4" I would extend it westbound to either 1)86th/4th station or 2)Lutheran Medical center area ("B11" Sunset Park Terminal) IMO The Knapp Street terminal is fine.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Simple. During the week most use the B100 to access the Brighton Line. It's important that they reach it as quickly as possible. Few use the B2 to access Kings Plaza anymore. On the weekends Kings Plaza is the more important destination. Currently Mill Basin residents can't even get to Kings Plaza with one bus unless they want to walk from Fillmore. The combination improves service for some and saves money. Few are inconvenienced.

 

 

I suppose those in Marine Park and the other areas that the B2 serve don't count is that it?