TSTC: NY study shows Suburban Bus Systems provide multi-million economy boost

[Vistausss]

Groundbreaking Report: Suburban Bus Systems Provide Multi-Million Dollar Boost to Regional Economy

by Ryan Lynch

 

A first-of-its-kind report commissioned by Tri-State Transportation Campaign and conducted by Appleseed, Inc. and New York University’s Rudin Center for Transportation Policy and Management, found that investment in Westchester County’s Bee Line and the Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE) served as boons for each county’s economy in 2012.

 

The report, “Supporting Economic Growth and Opportunity: The Economic Impact of Suburban Bus Service in Westchester and Nassau Counties,” found that in 2012 alone, the Bee Line and NICE systems added a total of $208 million and $191.5 million, respectively, to each county’s economy.

 

The totals were derived from both direct and indirect economic impacts, measuring the systems as enterprises themselves, as well as the multiplier effects generated as a result of money spent locally by employees on things like food, housing and utilities. These effects added almost half a billion dollars in economic development to the regional economy and supported 2,750 jobs (1,260 in Westchester and 1,490 in Nassau).

 

The report also highlighted that both bus systems serve as key economic lifelines for the riders who use them. Over 80,000 people a day use the Bee Line and NICE systems to get to work, earning an aggregate annual income of $1 billion in Westchester County and $840 million in Nassau County.

 

While both bus systems proved to be economic drivers for both counties, the report found that Westchester County has been especially adept at using transit as a tool to support key economic development projects. For example, the report highlights how Bee Line helped support the Ridge Hill development project, a $700 million, 81-acre mixed use development in the City of Yonkers that opened in 2011. According to the report, “Since Ridge Hill opened, the Bee Line has expanded bus service to the site. Between, 2011 and 2012, total annual ridership on the principal route serving Ridge Hill more than doubled, to more than 301,000.”

 

Nassau County, on the other hand, has yet to embrace NICE bus as an economic development tool, though the report adds that “service standards published by NICE in 2013 highlight the potential for extension of bus service to support major job-generating projects,” and there is a significant opportunity to utilize bus service to support the redevelopment of the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum site.

 

http://blog.tstc.org/2013/12/17/groundbreaking-report-suburban-bus-systems-provide-multi-million-dollar-boost-to-regional-economy/

 

Maybe this'll convince Mangano and the others?

[Missabassie]

Well DUUHHH! They need a million dollar study to figure this out? Embarrassing.

And Mangano's a D******** but thats just my humble opinion...

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Turbo19]

Suburban bus service is perfectly capable of thriving and benefiting the community, all it needs is the support of the local representatives.

[Vistausss]

Well DUUHHH! They need a million dollar study to figure this out? Embarrassing.

And Mangano's a D******** but thats just my humble opinion...

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

Sure, I could tell you without a study how much money it ll make. My point being was not really about the study but about how it can influence. I mean, you and I can talk to Mangano and explain what the benefits of NICE are. But whom would he rather listen to: us or a study?

[Missabassie]

Sure, I could tell you without a study how much money it ll make. My point being was not really about the study but about how it can influence. I mean, you and I can talk to Mangano and explain what the benefits of NICE are. But whom would he rather listen to: us or a study?

I know right....

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[qjtransitmaster]

I know right....

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Human incompetence at it's finest if bus systems help the economy then why don't the developers themselves fund the bus system and businesses?

[Turbo19]

Human incompetence at it's finest if bus systems help the economy then why don't the developers themselves fund the bus system and businesses?

Various reasons from a financial perspective, however I believe that there are limits as far as public service goes.

 

A serious question, can third party private funds be accepted by a transit provider?

[N6 Limited]

It's good that studies like this come out, because whenever there is an article about the bus , there are idiots come out of the woodworks to trash bus riders.

[qjtransitmaster]

Various reasons from a financial perspective, however I believe that there are limits as far as public service goes.

 

A serious question, can third party private funds be accepted by a transit provider?

Yes look at the RGRTA in Rochester,ny

[theaveragejoe]

Yes in Rochester they get funding from private business and other government agencies (like the school board) for service.

[B35 via Church]

Nassau County, on the other hand, has yet to embrace NICE bus as an economic development tool, though the report adds that “service standards published by NICE in 2013 highlight the potential for extension of bus service to support major job-generating projects,” and there is a significant opportunity to utilize bus service to support the redevelopment of the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum site.

 

One of the main problems I always saw w/ LIB (now NICE) is that a good portion of the routes don't really reflect where folks want/need to get to, county-wide (this is the main reason why you have many folks xferring all over the place w/i the county, alone)..... Do I even have to bring up the N73/74/80/81 to illustrate this point? Whereas the intercounty routes however, have flourished for the longest.... I don't think I've ever seen a bus system that is as reliant on its hubs (HTC, RFM, Jamaica proper) for the ridership it does get....

 

Nassau county executive Ed Mangano (and I'm tired of seeing that shit on as many advertisements w/i Nassau county; you'd think he was a dictator or something) won't prop up Nassau's bus system for the purposes mentioned here, and for damn sure he doesn't/won't see it as a force to boost Nassau's economy.... I honestly do think that he approved of Veolia/NICE, just to stick it to the MTA, and nothing more....

 

This is where I have to agree w/ Pinepower, where he states that the bus system in Nassau is not catered to anyone that is not the lower class... And those that are not of the lower class, tend to either shun the buses, or don't even know the buses exist (typical suburban think when it comes to public buses).... This also has to change; There is too much emphasis on the LIRR in Nassau county; even Suffolk county embraces the use of SCT buses (even though even less of its patrons use buses out there) moreso than Mangano & company in Nassau does....

 

Sorry Eddie, the fact that ya came up w/ a catchy/corny acronym for your county's bus system is not enough !

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. One of the main problems I always saw w/ LIB (now NICE) is that a good portion of the routes don't really reflect where folks want/need to get to, county-wide (this is the main reason why you have many folks xferring all over the place w/i the county, alone)..... Do I even have to bring up the N73/74/80/81 to illustrate this point? Whereas the intercounty routes however, have flourished for the longest.... I don't think I've ever seen a bus system that is as reliant on its hubs (HTC, RFM, Jamaica proper) for the ridership it does get....

 

2.Nassau county executive Ed Mangano (and I'm tired of seeing that shit on as many advertisements w/i Nassau county; you'd think he was a dictator or something) won't prop up Nassau's bus system for the purposes mentioned here, and for damn sure he doesn't/won't see it as a force to boost Nassau's economy.... I honestly do think that he approved of Veolia/NICE, just to stick it to the MTA, and nothing more....

 

3. This is where I have to agree w/ Pinepower, where he states that the bus system in Nassau is not catered to anyone that is not the lower class... And those that are not of the lower class, tend to either shun the buses, or don't even know the buses exist (typical suburban think when it comes to public buses).... This also has to change; There is too much emphasis on the LIRR in Nassau county; even Suffolk county embraces the use of SCT buses (even though even less of its patrons use buses out there) moreso than Mangano & company in Nassau does....

 

Sorry Eddie, the fact that ya came up w/ a catchy/corny acronym for your county's bus system is not enough !

 

1.Exactly, most of the entire bus system looks like someone just chose two random points and made a straight line through it, and that's their bus route to cater to residents. The difference with some routes are, that they were thought out better than others. All the intercounty routes are basically succeeding with ridership. You see the n79 (the shortest intercounty route in the system), despite going through some of the most rural terrain for a good portion of it's route, succeeds because you got riders from Huntington (in Suffolk) who can take the bus there (as it does seem that people are more neutral their with the bus system), and ride it to Nassau, and the other people who take it for non- LIRR reasons. When you include the LIRR Commuters, then you have your packed load. 

 

The 80/81 runs through Mango country in the north, so who's gonna take those routes. Their southern routes are composed of portions shared with the (heavier in ridership and more frequent) n54/n55. You really aren't gonna get riders like that. 

 

There's routes like the 73/74 portions being overserved, when potential areas for christ sake , like Syosset, could possible get some bus service at least.

 

The n36, not a bad planned out route, but catering wise and comfort wise, horrible. 

 

2. Amen, I see them sometimes in Queens around Union Turnpike, and sometimes as far as on the LIE when I'm on the BM5 going to Manhattan.

 

3. Eventually, Nassau will have to somehow give in to the bus system, however, by then, the county would be composed of more middle class working people (and it's not gonna happen very quickly).

[qjtransitmaster]

One of the main problems I always saw w/ LIB (now NICE) is that a good portion of the routes don't really reflect where folks want/need to get to, county-wide (this is the main reason why you have many folks xferring all over the place w/i the county, alone)..... Do I even have to bring up the N73/74/80/81 to illustrate this point? Whereas the intercounty routes however, have flourished for the longest.... I don't think I've ever seen a bus system that is as reliant on its hubs (HTC, RFM, Jamaica proper) for the ridership it does get....

 

Nassau county executive Ed Mangano (and I'm tired of seeing that shit on as many advertisements w/i Nassau county; you'd think he was a dictator or something) won't prop up Nassau's bus system for the purposes mentioned here, and for damn sure he doesn't/won't see it as a force to boost Nassau's economy.... I honestly do think that he approved of Veolia/NICE, just to stick it to the MTA, and nothing more....

 

This is where I have to agree w/ Pinepower, where he states that the bus system in Nassau is not catered to anyone that is not the lower class... And those that are not of the lower class, tend to either shun the buses, or don't even know the buses exist (typical suburban think when it comes to public buses).... This also has to change; There is too much emphasis on the LIRR in Nassau county; even Suffolk county embraces the use of SCT buses (even though even less of its patrons use buses out there) moreso than Mangano & company in Nassau does....

 

Sorry Eddie, the fact that ya came up w/ a catchy/corny acronym for your county's bus system is not enough !

damn phone made me downvote but I agree with your points fully where should N74/73 go to get ridership? I think it's cause Nassau itself is dead. And can be a wake up call to other county bus systems that are rural but close to cities. Or suburban systems that insist on staying within the county when most people living there commute out of county for getting to major destinations. Dude I've seen worse NJT Morris is a prime example upstate counties near Rochester and Syracuse are much worse lets not get started on ones between Rochester and buffalo yes I used the NFTA so I can speak a bit about it later.

[PinePower]

One of the main problems I always saw w/ LIB (now NICE) is that a good portion of the routes don't really reflect where folks want/need to get to, county-wide (this is the main reason why you have many folks xferring all over the place w/i the county, alone)..... Do I even have to bring up the N73/74/80/81 to illustrate this point? Whereas the intercounty routes however, have flourished for the longest.... I don't think I've ever seen a bus system that is as reliant on its hubs (HTC, RFM, Jamaica proper) for the ridership it does get....

 

Nassau county executive Ed Mangano (and I'm tired of seeing that shit on as many advertisements w/i Nassau county; you'd think he was a dictator or something) won't prop up Nassau's bus system for the purposes mentioned here, and for damn sure he doesn't/won't see it as a force to boost Nassau's economy.... I honestly do think that he approved of Veolia/NICE, just to stick it to the MTA, and nothing more....

 

This is where I have to agree w/ Pinepower, where he states that the bus system in Nassau is not catered to anyone that is not the lower class... And those that are not of the lower class, tend to either shun the buses, or don't even know the buses exist (typical suburban think when it comes to public buses).... This also has to change; There is too much emphasis on the LIRR in Nassau county; even Suffolk county embraces the use of SCT buses (even though even less of its patrons use buses out there) moreso than Mangano & company in Nassau does....

 

Sorry Eddie, the fact that ya came up w/ a catchy/corny acronym for your county's bus system is not enough !

 

I totally am in agreement with you here. The routes that get the best "mainstream" ridership are those that serve the NYC Subways, Roosevelt Field, and NCC. But too many routes have bad terminuses, and too many are centered around Hempstead, a place most want to avoid at all costs.

And yes, Suffolk has a better attitude toward it's bus system and no doubt is gaining riders now with the addition of Sunday service to 10 routes. Most people in Nassau either travel to the city (mostly via LIRR), to shopping malls (Roosevelt Field), or office parks (Melville). And on the latter case, the screwed up big time by eliminating routes like the n94 & n95 which actually saw decent ridership feeding from LIRR stations to office parks. Now Woodbury has no bus at all, and there's still no bus on Jericho Turnpike through Syosset (large shopping area & offices). Make fun of Suffolk Transit all you want, but almost every shopping center in Suffolk County is served by bus! Meanwhile in Nassau you have bus "deserts" like Jericho Turnpike in Westbury & Syosset, Forest Ave in Glen Cove (the n27 ends downtown where there is nothing), S.Oyster Bay Rd & Woodbury Rd,etc. I was really hoping NICE would really change things up and redesign the system to serve more people's needs.

For instance, I would extend the n27 along Forest Ave to Locust Valley LIRR, to serve the shopping areas along Forest, which BTW, are the only major shopping areas in Glen Cove and where it's 2 major supermarkets are (King Kullen & Stop & Shop). There's nothing downtown, no one wants to go there, it's only a congregation spot for day workers (no wonder thats all the rides the n27 to Glen Cove).

As far as Jericho Turnpike is concerned, the n35 should be extended down Rockland St (or via Maple, not sure whats the best routing) to go via Brush Hollow Rd to Jericho Turnpike, and this would provide service to the Westbury Music Fair, as well as Movie Theaters, Restaurants, and other stores in the area. And this would definately increase ridership on the Westbury portion of the route, as it is now, it ends in the middle of a residential area, and its not a major destination for anyone. 

The Syosset portion would be served by either extending the n48 or n49 (one bus is enough for Jericho Quad) down Jericho Turnpike to serve Woodbury Crossways. And the n80/81 needs to run hourly as a combined route. And the n81's route should be changed to run via S.Oyster Bay Rd & Woodbury Road to Hicksville to add service to the shopping centers at that intersection. Routes in Wantagh/Levittown get low ridership because they dont serve really busy areas. For instance, change the n74 route to travel via Hempstead Turnpike, thru Uniondale to Roosevelt Field via NCC, now that hits 2 busy areas! And then in summer you can extend that to Jones Beach, providing a one-seat ride to Jones Beach from RF.

Of course these are just ideas, but there needs to be more service to destinations people like to go to. But I dont think there's any room for innovation at NICE, they're slowed by budget contraints thanks to a careless county, special interests, and the lack of knowledge of travel patterns. But don't say they haven't been suggested, by both myself, Brett, and probably others. And the n23 going to RF & HTC definitely did improve ridership on that route, it was actually working out well (as much as I liked the historical pattern). But NICE saw it would be cheaper to just put the old routing back, with less runs on the n27. Their route designers are clueless, and I dont have much hope they'll learn much from the new satellite system either. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

damn phone made me downvote but I agree with your points fully where should N74/73 go to get ridership? I think it's cause Nassau itself is dead. And can be a wake up call to other county bus systems that are rural but close to cities. Or suburban systems that insist on staying within the county when most people living there commute out of county for getting to major destinations. Dude I've seen worse NJT Morris is a prime example upstate counties near Rochester and Syracuse are much worse lets not get started on ones between Rochester and buffalo yes I used the NFTA so I can speak a bit about it later.

The thing is, Syracuse CENTRO does have service going outside Onondaga County, to Cayuga County, Fulton, and Oswego County, 7 days a week. Now, the service may not be the best everyday of the week, but it's enough for workers to accommodate during the week. Some routes run like that on purpose (for example, the 246 is catered towards day time travelers to other places and vice versa, and to SUNY students). However, I will agree it's intercity service is not the best, but it's intra-city suburban network (more in the north) gave me a wtf moment (since nothing but two routes runs on Saturdays, and one in the west on Sundays), so I'll give you that. Surprisingly, intercity service is much better than it's intra-city suburban network, but I digress. Rochester I'll agree on, Buffalo has one (the one that runs on Grand Island, which is an intercity/suburban route between Niagara and Erie Counties), but other than that, yeah, not really good.

 

Nassau is not dead, it's the bus route system that's dead, really doesn't help most people out. It's like it's not there. As for your question (I know you asked B35 this), perhaps extending the n73 to Syosset would get it some ridership. VWM (the member) once had an idea for a route connecting Roosevelt Field Mall and South Hungton, via Jericho Turnipke, and Syosset. I mean, it does kinda sound like a good idea, since it does involve the use of a huge ass hub on both sides of the routes, has good ridership base (from the areas it would serve), and would allow for multiple connections to other NICE routes, and SCT. 

[N6 Limited]

LOL @ "Nassau is Dead"  The routes that go to Queens have a purpose. People use those to commute, they serve commercial strips, connect to the subway, and goes to places with congestion and a shortage of [free]parking. The other routes don't have that "luxury" And so, getting people out of their cars from their residential streets deep in a subdivision away from the main road, in order to take a bus on hourly headways, to have to walk even more when they get to their destination when a round trip by car could be 15 mins, is really crazy. 

 

If I live by Wantagh Ave and I want to go to Old Country Road in Westbury to shop, then go to Whole Foods in Jericho, then stop by Tri County Center In Levittown. Why would I chose the bus over my car?

[qjtransitmaster]

I totally am in agreement with you here. The routes that get the best "mainstream" ridership are those that serve the NYC Subways, Roosevelt Field, and NCC. But too many routes have bad terminuses, and too many are centered around Hempstead, a place most want to avoid at all costs.

And yes, Suffolk has a better attitude toward it's bus system and no doubt is gaining riders now with the addition of Sunday service to 10 routes. Most people in Nassau either travel to the city (mostly via LIRR), to shopping malls (Roosevelt Field), or office parks (Melville). And on the latter case, the screwed up big time by eliminating routes like the n94 & n95 which actually saw decent ridership feeding from LIRR stations to office parks. Now Woodbury has no bus at all, and there's still no bus on Jericho Turnpike through Syosset (large shopping area & offices). Make fun of Suffolk Transit all you want, but almost every shopping center in Suffolk County is served by bus! Meanwhile in Nassau you have bus "deserts" like Jericho Turnpike in Westbury & Syosset, Forest Ave in Glen Cove (the n27 ends downtown where there is nothing), S.Oyster Bay Rd & Woodbury Rd,etc. I was really hoping NICE would really change things up and redesign the system to serve more people's needs.

For instance, I would extend the n27 along Forest Ave to Locust Valley LIRR, to serve the shopping areas along Forest, which BTW, are the only major shopping areas in Glen Cove and where it's 2 major supermarkets are (King Kullen & Stop & Shop). There's nothing downtown, no one wants to go there, it's only a congregation spot for day workers (no wonder thats all the rides the n27 to Glen Cove).

As far as Jericho Turnpike is concerned, the n35 should be extended down Rockland St (or via Maple, not sure whats the best routing) to go via Brush Hollow Rd to Jericho Turnpike, and this would provide service to the Westbury Music Fair, as well as Movie Theaters, Restaurants, and other stores in the area. And this would definately increase ridership on the Westbury portion of the route, as it is now, it ends in the middle of a residential area, and its not a major destination for anyone. 

The Syosset portion would be served by either extending the n48 or n49 (one bus is enough for Jericho Quad) down Jericho Turnpike to serve Woodbury Crossways. And the n80/81 needs to run hourly as a combined route. And the n81's route should be changed to run via S.Oyster Bay Rd & Woodbury Road to Hicksville to add service to the shopping centers at that intersection. Routes in Wantagh/Levittown get low ridership because they dont serve really busy areas. For instance, change the n74 route to travel via Hempstead Turnpike, thru Uniondale to Roosevelt Field via NCC, now that hits 2 busy areas! And then in summer you can extend that to Jones Beach, providing a one-seat ride to Jones Beach from RF.

Of course these are just ideas, but there needs to be more service to destinations people like to go to. But I dont think there's any room for innovation at NICE, they're slowed by budget contraints thanks to a careless county, special interests, and the lack of knowledge of travel patterns. But don't say they haven't been suggested, by both myself, Brett, and probably others. And the n23 going to RF & HTC definitely did improve ridership on that route, it was actually working out well (as much as I liked the historical pattern). But NICE saw it would be cheaper to just put the old routing back, with less runs on the n27. Their route designers are clueless, and I dont have much hope they'll learn much from the new satellite system either. 

Or have N58 via LIE HOV service Jericho tpk to crossways. N80 would gain more via Hempstead tpk. Whilst N81 combination with northern portion of N80. Northern portion of N81 broken off to rte 135 then wantagh to Freeport (If N19 bastardized or sped up)or Long beach. N45 may stand to gain in such a scenario.

The thing is, Syracuse CENTRO does have service going outside Onondaga County, to Cayuga County, Fulton, and Oswego County, 7 days a week. Now, the service may not be the best everyday of the week, but it's enough for workers to accommodate during the week. Some routes run like that on purpose (for example, the 246 is catered towards day time travelers to other places and vice versa, and to SUNY students). However, I will agree it's intercity service is not the best, but it's intra-city suburban network (more in the north) gave me a wtf moment (since nothing but two routes runs on Saturdays, and one in the west on Sundays), so I'll give you that. Surprisingly, intercity service is much better than it's intra-city suburban network, but I digress. Rochester I'll agree on, Buffalo has one (the one that runs on Grand Island, which is an intercity/suburban route between Niagara and Erie Counties), but other than that, yeah, not really good.

 

Nassau is not dead, it's the bus route system that's dead, really doesn't help most people out. It's like it's not there. As for your question (I know you asked B35 this), perhaps extending the n73 to Syosset would get it some ridership. VWM (the member) once had an idea for a route connecting Roosevelt Field Mall and South Hungton, via Jericho Turnipke, and Syosset. I mean, it does kinda sound like a good idea, since it does involve the use of a huge ass hub on both sides of the routes, has good ridership base (from the areas it would serve), and would allow for multiple connections to other NICE routes, and SCT. 

I know the NFTA 40 I used it before.

[Astoria Line]

Or have N58 via LIE HOV service Jericho tpk to crossways. N80 would gain more via Hempstead tpk. Whilst N81 combination with northern portion of N80. Northern portion of N81 broken off to rte 135 then wantagh to Freeport (If N19 bastardized or sped up)or Long beach. N45 may stand to gain in such a scenario.

 

I know the NFTA 40 I used it before.

 

Wat 

[qjtransitmaster]

Wat 

I will not even bother trying to simplify it for you.

[B35 via Church]

1.Exactly, most of the entire bus system looks like someone just chose two random points and made a straight line through it, and that's their bus route to cater to residents. The difference with some routes are, that they were thought out better than others. All the intercounty routes are basically succeeding with ridership. You see the n79 (the shortest intercounty route in the system), despite going through some of the most rural terrain for a good portion of it's route, succeeds because you got riders from Huntington (in Suffolk) who can take the bus there (as it does seem that people are more neutral their with the bus system), and ride it to Nassau, and the other people who take it for non- LIRR reasons. When you include the LIRR Commuters, then you have your packed load. 

 

The 80/81 runs through Mango country in the north, so who's gonna take those routes. Their southern routes are composed of portions shared with the (heavier in ridership and more frequent) n54/n55. You really aren't gonna get riders like that. 

 

There's routes like the 73/74 portions being overserved, when potential areas for christ sake , like Syosset, could possible get some bus service at least.

 

The n36, not a bad planned out route, but catering wise and comfort wise, horrible. 

 

2. Amen, I see them sometimes in Queens around Union Turnpike, and sometimes as far as on the LIE when I'm on the BM5 going to Manhattan.

 

3. Eventually, Nassau will have to somehow give in to the bus system, however, by then, the county would be composed of more middle class working people (and it's not gonna happen very quickly).

1) That's also a large part of the problem, regarding (possible) increased usage w/ the county's bus system.... Only at the "major" RR stations, do you really see RR to bus travel.... At the intermediate (or w/e you wanna call them) stations, there's a lot of park & ride activity going on - I'd go as far as to say at a 100% rate (meaning, no one at a lot of these stations where people are park & riding, are waiting for buses)......

 

2) Highly annoying.

 

3) Nah, it's gonna take more than that, unfortunately..... The county overall is gonna have to become more lower class than what it is now for usage to spike..... Working Middle Class folks won't abandon the RR, and even if you bastardize LIRR service, they'll either still put up with it, or consider driving into the city.... The stigma with public buses in Nassau County is that bad; worse than in Suffolk & worse than in Westchester (for example).....

 

damn phone made me downvote but I agree with your points fully where should N74/73 go to get ridership? I think it's cause Nassau itself is dead. And can be a wake up call to other county bus systems that are rural but close to cities. Or suburban systems that insist on staying within the county when most people living there commute out of county for getting to major destinations. Dude I've seen worse NJT Morris is a prime example upstate counties near Rochester and Syracuse are much worse lets not get started on ones between Rochester and buffalo yes I used the NFTA so I can speak a bit about it later.

I don't want to turn this into an idea thread, but the problem is definitely not that Nassau is dead... How can the county be dead if it's slowly getting more & more urban? Simply put, the problem with the county's bus system is that it's too reliant on inter-borough ridership.....

 

I totally am in agreement with you here. The routes that get the best "mainstream" ridership are those that serve the NYC Subways, Roosevelt Field, and NCC. But too many routes have bad terminuses, and too many are centered around Hempstead, a place most want to avoid at all costs.

 

And yes, Suffolk has a better attitude toward it's bus system and no doubt is gaining riders now with the addition of Sunday service to 10 routes. Most people in Nassau either travel to the city (mostly via LIRR), to shopping malls (Roosevelt Field), or office parks (Melville). And on the latter case, the screwed up big time by eliminating routes like the n94 & n95 which actually saw decent ridership feeding from LIRR stations to office parks. Now Woodbury has no bus at all, and there's still no bus on Jericho Turnpike through Syosset (large shopping area & offices). Make fun of Suffolk Transit all you want, but almost every shopping center in Suffolk County is served by bus! Meanwhile in Nassau you have bus "deserts" like Jericho Turnpike in Westbury & Syosset, Forest Ave in Glen Cove (the n27 ends downtown where there is nothing), S.Oyster Bay Rd & Woodbury Rd,etc. I was really hoping NICE would really change things up and redesign the system to serve more people's needs.

 

For instance, I would extend the n27 along Forest Ave to Locust Valley LIRR, to serve the shopping areas along Forest, which BTW, are the only major shopping areas in Glen Cove and where it's 2 major supermarkets are (King Kullen & Stop & Shop). There's nothing downtown, no one wants to go there, it's only a congregation spot for day workers (no wonder thats all the rides the n27 to Glen Cove).

As far as Jericho Turnpike is concerned, the n35 should be extended down Rockland St (or via Maple, not sure whats the best routing) to go via Brush Hollow Rd to Jericho Turnpike, and this would provide service to the Westbury Music Fair, as well as Movie Theaters, Restaurants, and other stores in the area. And this would definately increase ridership on the Westbury portion of the route, as it is now, it ends in the middle of a residential area, and its not a major destination for anyone. 

The Syosset portion would be served by either extending the n48 or n49 (one bus is enough for Jericho Quad) down Jericho Turnpike to serve Woodbury Crossways. And the n80/81 needs to run hourly as a combined route. And the n81's route should be changed to run via S.Oyster Bay Rd & Woodbury Road to Hicksville to add service to the shopping centers at that intersection. Routes in Wantagh/Levittown get low ridership because they dont serve really busy areas. For instance, change the n74 route to travel via Hempstead Turnpike, thru Uniondale to Roosevelt Field via NCC, now that hits 2 busy areas! And then in summer you can extend that to Jones Beach, providing a one-seat ride to Jones Beach from RF.

Of course these are just ideas, but there needs to be more service to destinations people like to go to. But I dont think there's any room for innovation at NICE, they're slowed by budget contraints thanks to a careless county, special interests, and the lack of knowledge of travel patterns. But don't say they haven't been suggested, by both myself, Brett, and probably others. And the n23 going to RF & HTC definitely did improve ridership on that route, it was actually working out well (as much as I liked the historical pattern). But NICE saw it would be cheaper to just put the old routing back, with less runs on the n27. Their route designers are clueless, and I dont have much hope they'll learn much from the new satellite system either. 

No fun-making of Suffolk county hover here.... I have ALWAYS favored Suffolk county over Nassau county, and even said as such on this forum a few times.... SCT simply has a better system than LIB did/NICE does.....

 

Aside from your whole *screw with the eastern portion of the 24 to pump up the 22* idea, I tend to side with your ideas regarding the rest of the county.... Again, I don't wanna turn this into an idea thread, but if it were up to me, Nassau's bus system would resemble SCT's

 

As far as NICE in the beginning, I thought they were gonna cut routes like crazy (and leave the county with nothing more than barebone service), to be perfectly honest....... They're taking baby steps in the right direction (with some routes anyway), but county-wide/system-wide, there is just too much that have to be plugged up/fixed - for those that want to consider taking NICE, but don't, for said reason.......

[PinePower]

1) That's also a large part of the problem, regarding (possible) increased usage w/ the county's bus system.... Only at the "major" RR stations, do you really see RR to bus travel.... At the intermediate (or w/e you wanna call them) stations, there's a lot of park & ride activity going on - I'd go as far as to say at a 100% rate (meaning, no one at a lot of these stations where people are park & riding, are waiting for buses)......

 

2) Highly annoying.

 

3) Nah, it's gonna take more than that, unfortunately..... The county overall is gonna have to become more lower class than what it is now for usage to spike..... Working Middle Class folks won't abandon the RR, and even if you bastardize LIRR service, they'll either still put up with it, or consider driving into the city.... The stigma with public buses in Nassau County is that bad; worse than in Suffolk & worse than in Westchester (for example).....

 

I don't want to turn this into an idea thread, but the problem is definitely not that Nassau is dead... How can the county be dead if it's slowly getting more & more urban? Simply put, the problem with the county's bus system is that it's too reliant on inter-borough ridership.....

 

No fun-making of Suffolk county hover here.... I have ALWAYS favored Suffolk county over Nassau county, and even said as such on this forum a few times.... SCT simply has a better system than LIB did/NICE does.....

 

Aside from your whole *screw with the eastern portion of the 24 to pump up the 22* idea, I tend to side with your ideas regarding the rest of the county.... Again, I don't wanna turn this into an idea thread, but if it were up to me, Nassau's bus system would resemble SCT's

 

As far as NICE in the beginning, I thought they were gonna cut routes like crazy (and leave the county with nothing more than barebone service), to be perfectly honest....... They're taking baby steps in the right direction (with some routes anyway), but county-wide/system-wide, there is just too much that have to be plugged up/fixed - for those that want to consider taking NICE, but don't, for said reason.......

 

I'm not saying you were knocking SCT but others do. But I do know I can get most anywhere in Suffolk with Suffolk Transit, the same cannot be said for Nassau. I also think NICE buses should be able to call eachother over the radio like they do in Suffolk, if someone needs a connection. 

[NY1635]

1) That's also a large part of the problem, regarding (possible) increased usage w/ the county's bus system.... Only at the "major" RR stations, do you really see RR to bus travel.... At the intermediate (or w/e you wanna call them) stations, there's a lot of park & ride activity going on - I'd go as far as to say at a 100% rate (meaning, no one at a lot of these stations where people are park & riding, are waiting for buses)......

 

2) Highly annoying.

 

3) Nah, it's gonna take more than that, unfortunately..... The county overall is gonna have to become more lower class than what it is now for usage to spike..... Working Middle Class folks won't abandon the RR, and even if you bastardize LIRR service, they'll either still put up with it, or consider driving into the city.... The stigma with public buses in Nassau County is that bad; worse than in Suffolk & worse than in Westchester (for example).....

 

I don't want to turn this into an idea thread, but the problem is definitely not that Nassau is dead... How can the county be dead if it's slowly getting more & more urban? Simply put, the problem with the county's bus system is that it's too reliant on inter-borough ridership.....

 

No fun-making of Suffolk county hover here.... I have ALWAYS favored Suffolk county over Nassau county, and even said as such on this forum a few times.... SCT simply has a better system than LIB did/NICE does.....

 

Aside from your whole *screw with the eastern portion of the 24 to pump up the 22* idea, I tend to side with your ideas regarding the rest of the county.... Again, I don't wanna turn this into an idea thread, but if it were up to me, Nassau's bus system would resemble SCT's

 

As far as NICE in the beginning, I thought they were gonna cut routes like crazy (and leave the county with nothing more than barebone service), to be perfectly honest....... They're taking baby steps in the right direction (with some routes anyway), but county-wide/system-wide, there is just too much that have to be plugged up/fixed - for those that want to consider taking NICE, but don't, for said reason.......

 

Parts of Nassau County is already urban. Hempstead alone has a district court, a bus terminal where most of the routes terminate, a LIRR station, taxi cabs, and even coach buses that stop there. There are also places to shop and buy food (though some people prefer to go to Roosevelt Field to buy their stuff). It's also infamous for it's troubled schools and gang violence, though it's not as bad as Roosevelt. There are other lowclass areas like Freeport, Westbury-New Cassel, and I think Glen Clove. Ironically, the routes that go through those neighborhoods have the highest ridership. I personally see those neighborhoods slowly becoming more urban. I doubt that areas east of Hicksville (let's say Newbridge Road) will become urban anytime soon. If people are moving out of the city and into Nassau, then they might end up moving somewhere between the County Line and Glen Cove-Hempstead-Freeport, where there's frequent bus service.

 

 

 

[qjtransitmaster]

1) That's also a large part of the problem, regarding (possible) increased usage w/ the county's bus system.... Only at the "major" RR stations, do you really see RR to bus travel.... At the intermediate (or w/e you wanna call them) stations, there's a lot of park & ride activity going on - I'd go as far as to say at a 100% rate (meaning, no one at a lot of these stations where people are park & riding, are waiting for buses)......

 

2) Highly annoying.

 

3) Nah, it's gonna take more than that, unfortunately..... The county overall is gonna have to become more lower class than what it is now for usage to spike..... Working Middle Class folks won't abandon the RR, and even if you bastardize LIRR service, they'll either still put up with it, or consider driving into the city.... The stigma with public buses in Nassau County is that bad; worse than in Suffolk & worse than in Westchester (for example).....

 

I don't want to turn this into an idea thread, but the problem is definitely not that Nassau is dead... How can the county be dead if it's slowly getting more & more urban? Simply put, the problem with the county's bus system is that it's too reliant on inter-borough ridership.....

 

No fun-making of Suffolk county hover here.... I have ALWAYS favored Suffolk county over Nassau county, and even said as such on this forum a few times.... SCT simply has a better system than LIB did/NICE does.....

 

Aside from your whole *screw with the eastern portion of the 24 to pump up the 22* idea, I tend to side with your ideas regarding the rest of the county.... Again, I don't wanna turn this into an idea thread, but if it were up to me, Nassau's bus system would resemble SCT's

 

As far as NICE in the beginning, I thought they were gonna cut routes like crazy (and leave the county with nothing more than barebone service), to be perfectly honest....... They're taking baby steps in the right direction (with some routes anyway), but county-wide/system-wide, there is just too much that have to be plugged up/fixed - for those that want to consider taking NICE, but don't, for said reason.......

well duh the buses don't go anywhere people need to go of course intracounty ridership will suffer. I did make a draft plan to address that sadly some components require extra funding like Jericho linker and N16 reorganization(sortof) N81/80 restructuring may end up effecting N19 to an extent Nassau is a basket case. 

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm not saying you were knocking SCT but others do. But I do know I can get most anywhere in Suffolk with Suffolk Transit, the same cannot be said for Nassau. I also think NICE buses should be able to call eachother over the radio like they do in Suffolk, if someone needs a connection. 

But service levels suck and aside from S45& S1 most run every hour AT RUSH HOUR!!! Or end too early. S57/59 cough. S62& 58 however their efforts to improve these past years is admirable that much I admit.

[B35 via Church]

Parts of Nassau County is already urban. Hempstead alone has a district court, a bus terminal where most of the routes terminate, a LIRR station, taxi cabs, and even coach buses that stop there. There are also places to shop and buy food (though some people prefer to go to Roosevelt Field to buy their stuff). It's also infamous for it's troubled schools and gang violence, though it's not as bad as Roosevelt. There are other lowclass areas like Freeport, Westbury-New Cassel, and I think Glen Clove. Ironically, the routes that go through those neighborhoods have the highest ridership. I personally see those neighborhoods slowly becoming more urban. I doubt that areas east of Hicksville (let's say Newbridge Road) will become urban anytime soon. If people are moving out of the city and into Nassau, then they might end up moving somewhere between the County Line and Glen Cove-Hempstead-Freeport, where there's frequent bus service.

I was talking about the county in general... Of course there's parts of the county that's been urban since the day of the flood....

 

well duh the buses don't go anywhere people need to go of course intracounty ridership will suffer........

It aint a matter of "duh".... Make up your mind here.....

 

You can't sit there & logically say Nassau is dead, then make the point that the buses don't go anywhere...

If the county was dead (as you say), what would it matter where the buses went......

 

But service levels suck and aside from S45& S1 most run every hour AT RUSH HOUR!!! Or end too early. S57/59 cough. S62& 58 however their efforts to improve these past years is admirable that much I admit.

I don't disagree, but this is a different argument.... You can't really compare rush hour travel/loads on buses traveling from one suburban area to another, and buses traveling from a suburban area to an urban area.... The latter is where Nassau's bus travel shines.... More people will always be willing to take buses towards urban areas in the PM rush, and leaving them in the AM rush (compared to intra-suburban travel)..... So you're not gonna have too many trips in Suffolk running too much longer past rush hour..... Same goes for w/i certain areas in Nassau county.... I mean, just look at the Nassau routes whose span is shorter that than of the interborough routes.....

 

Anyway, The fact of the matter is SCT's routes have better coverage than its neighbor to the west.....