de Blasio promises rapid bus system, hires new DOT commissioner

[N6 Limited]

Yeah cant forget our girl Christine Quinn with her Triboro RX proposal which looked to me like a connect the dots game out of a children's coloring book you can find at Walmart:

 

 

LOL!

I'd use that line.

[realizm]

I'd use that line.

 

OK, everyone is entitled to their take on her proposal but Jay Walder's vision of a non-Manhattan centric crosstown subway and the X train made more sense to me, if it wasnt for the complications of running subway cars along FRA mandated ROW. Otherwise the ROWs are already there and all it needs is a overhaul to rapid transit specs. But Congressman Nader killed the idea opting for his beloved Cross-Harbor Rail Tunnel. Politics at its best.

 

 

From the projected rate of usage, had this proposal by Mr. Walder came to light it would have been a hit. Projected ridership figures would have been more then the entire Miami metro system combined. But yes realizm, dream on, I know....

[BrooklynBus]

Yeah cant forget our girl Christine Quinn with her Triboro RX proposal which looked to me like a connect the dots game out of a children's coloring book you can find at Walmart:

 

 

LOL!

Was she actually proposing to operate buses along the Brighton line?

 

OK, everyone is entitled to their take on her proposal but Jay Walder's vision of a non-Manhattan centric crosstown subway and the X train made more sense to me, if it wasnt for the complications of running subway cars along FRA mandated ROW. Otherwise the ROWs are already there and all it needs is a overhaul to rapid transit specs. But Congressman Nader killed the idea opting for his beloved Cross-Harbor Rail Tunnel. Politics at its best.

 

 

From the projected rate of usage, had this proposal by Mr. Walder came to light it would have been a hit. Projected ridership figures would have been more then the entire Miami metro system combined. But yes realizm, dream on, I know....

Actually that wasn't Walder's proposal. He took it from the Regional Planning Association who has been pushing that plan since the 1970s. It woud be a great plan if all the problems could be worked out. I didn't know that Walder supported it.

[realizm]

Was she actually proposing to operate buses along the Brighton line?

 

 

Actually that wasn't Walder's proposal. He took it from the Regional Planning Association who has been pushing that plan since the 1970s. It woud be a great plan if all the problems could be worked out. I didn't know that Walder supported it.

 

Gotcha thank you for clarifying, minds a bit foggy, been a minute since we discussed this.

 

But yeah that idea or a rapid transit Triboro RX line would have rocked. And the revenue it could have bring? Astronomical, I'm sure passenger ridership would have been high if this would have been carried out as all we have are Manhattan-centric lines with the exception of the IND Crosstown line which lacks the much needed connections to critical outerborough trunk lines and of course the ingenuous idea of connecting all the outer boroughs all the way to the Bronx. Well one day....

 

On the inquiry yes she was planning to run +Select Bus Service+ along the Brighton line which makes no sense. The Brighton Line is sufficient for passenger needs with the and  with excellent headways (most of the time) with high passenger capacity. For her to add bus lanes on top of that for SBS would have been overkill with redundant service. Better to implement SBS where it is actually needed.

 

We all know the only reason she made that proposal was as a political strategy to get into City Hall and ruin New York with her asinine ideas on policy to turn the cityinto a police state with paramilitary police forces or whatever she was thinking with her Napoleon complex #sarcasm. Remember she was bent on extending former Bloomberg policy and was known to be a hypocrite, she would have never backed this surface transit proposal in the long run anyway.

[qjtransitmaster]

Gotcha thank you for clarifying, minds a bit foggy, been a minute since we discussed this.

 

But yeah that idea or a rapid transit Triboro RX line would have rocked. And the revenue it could have bring? Astronomical, I'm sure passenger ridership would have been high if this would have been carried out as all we have are Manhattan-centric lines with the exception of the IND Crosstown line which lacks the much needed connections to critical outerborough trunk lines and of course the ingenuous idea of connecting all the outer boroughs all the way to the Bronx. Well one day....

 

On the inquiry yes she was planning to run +Select Bus Service+ along the Brighton line which makes no sense. The Brighton Line is sufficient for passenger needs with the and  with excellent headways (most of the time) with high passenger capacity. For her to add bus lanes on top of that for SBS would have been overkill with redundant service. Better to implement SBS where it is actually needed.

 

We all know the only reason she made that proposal was as a political strategy to get into City Hall and ruin New York with her asinine ideas on policy to turn the cityinto a police state with paramilitary police forces or whatever she was thinking with her Napoleon complex #sarcasm. Remember she was bent on extending former Bloomberg policy and was known to be a hypocrite, she would have never backed this surface transit proposal in the long run anyway.

Simple way to get around FRA rapid transit use cars that would be normally run on the SIR or better yet build the tunnel from ST George to bay ridge and have trains from the SIR run over the triboro or north shore line. Just cause it's commuter rail doesn't mean it must be infrequent.

[realizm]

Simple way to get around FRA rapid transit use cars that would be normally run on the SIR or better yet build the tunnel from ST George to bay ridge and have trains from the SIR run over the triboro or north shore line. Just cause it's commuter rail doesn't mean it must be infrequent.

 

Yeah true, they can retrofit cars technically (as you said in the case of R44s for SIR) or simply order new cars for the tentative subway that are FRA compliant. I mean the MTA I think did consider it with the once proposal for the Queens Bvld bypass running on FRA mandated LIRR trackage to Union Tpke.

 

*Oh hold up, let me correct myself, I think in the MTA Plan For Action what they wanted to do is take two tracks and install rapid transit standard block signaling, but you get the idea.

[bobtehpanda]

Simple way to get around FRA rapid transit use cars that would be normally run on the SIR or better yet build the tunnel from ST George to bay ridge and have trains from the SIR run over the triboro or north shore line. Just cause it's commuter rail doesn't mean it must be infrequent.

Once again, this provides minimal benefit at a lot of cost. No one is going to switch to this from the ferry; the ferry is free, and much faster than any Narrows+4th Av crossing to Manhattan.

 

This will basically just steal passengers from the S53, which isn't too busy to begin with.

Was she actually proposing to operate buses along the Brighton line?

 

 

Actually that wasn't Walder's proposal. He took it from the Regional Planning Association who has been pushing that plan since the 1970s. It woud be a great plan if all the problems could be worked out. I didn't know that Walder supported it.

 

She just wanted to show that she could do it for cheaper (and seeing how at least 90% of the ROW has room for at least two tracks, this makes absolutely no sense.)

 

I'm going to make a minor correction here and say that the slide show realizm posted is actually from Eliot Sander, who I believe was turfed out by the Paterson administration.

[qjtransitmaster]

Once again, this provides minimal benefit at a lot of cost. No one is going to switch to this from the ferry; the ferry is free, and much faster than any Narrows+4th Av crossing to Manhattan.

 

This will basically just steal passengers from the S53, which isn't too busy to begin with.

 

 

She just wanted to show that she could do it for cheaper (and seeing how at least 90% of the ROW has room for at least two tracks, this makes absolutely no sense.)

 

I'm going to make a minor correction here and say that the slide show realizm posted is actually from Eliot Sander, who I believe was turfed out by the Paterson administration.

That's not the idea the idea is to get people off the belt parkway indirectly. It won't be to take people to Manhattan. It's to decrease travel time from Brooklyn to SI and act as a connector line. Due to distance I highly doubt S53 would suffer too much. Most of the new riders may be people who used to drive. S53 is useless for those going to Brooklyn college or LI and queens ect you need to look at the whole line and beyond SI to understand.

[Vistausss]

SI to Bay Ridge is not going to work for the aforementioned reason: the ferry. The only thing that would work is a bridge or tunnel to Manhattan, but only if there's a free transfer involved (so either it's gonna be subway to St George or SIR to South Ferry with free transfer to the subway). People from SI who have to travel further than South Ferry would take it for sure. I mean, if they have to go further they have to pay the subway fare at SF anyway so why not directly from St George?

 

Of course, that is not going to happen in a million years but *if* something would work, *then* it'll be a Manhattan connection, not Bay Ridge connection...

[bobtehpanda]

That's not the idea the idea is to get people off the belt parkway indirectly. It won't be to take people to Manhattan. It's to decrease travel time from Brooklyn to SI and act as a connector line. Due to distance I highly doubt S53 would suffer too much. Most of the new riders may be people who used to drive. S53 is useless for those going to Brooklyn college or LI and queens ect you need to look at the whole line and beyond SI to understand.

 

Cross borough commuting is on the rise, but very little of that is happening to/from Staten Island. Most of the new non-Manhattan travel is Brooklyn-Queens, or Bronx-Queens. Building out to Staten Island would not be worth the billions of dollars in cost, particularly when the point of Triboro RX is that it is cheap to do.

[qjtransitmaster]

SI to Bay Ridge is not going to work for the aforementioned reason: the ferry. The only thing that would work is a bridge or tunnel to Manhattan, but only if there's a free transfer involved (so either it's gonna be subway to St George or SIR to South Ferry with free transfer to the subway). People from SI who have to travel further than South Ferry would take it for sure. I mean, if they have to go further they have to pay the subway fare at SF anyway so why not directly from St George?

 

Of course, that is not going to happen in a million years but *if* something would work, *then* it'll be a Manhattan connection, not Bay Ridge connection...

Were you even paying attention? I said for those NOT going to Manhattan!!! Plus tunnel to Manhattan is too long. Obviously you haven't seen the BQE & BELT. Or paid attention to the fact that outerboroughs are growing faster than Manhattan. Tunnel to bay ridge then train continues to queens via triborough line that however people would pay for why simple look at the tolls on the bridge plus only 2 buses go to Brooklyn and they are not fast last I checked.

[qjtransitmaster]

Cross borough commuting is on the rise, but very little of that is happening to/from Staten Island. Most of the new non-Manhattan travel is Brooklyn-Queens, or Bronx-Queens. Building out to Staten Island would not be worth the billions of dollars in cost, particularly when the point of Triboro RX is that it is cheap to do.

That can be future phase. Not immediately but it would increase ridership paying ones on the SIR. Plus getting to downtown Brooklyn becomes faster. And as a whole It would be faster way to link to Brooklyn you can kill multiple birds with that stone in the future should the need arise but it would also allow cars to get serviced directly without trucking. It could also have a combination cross harbor tunnel that allows SIR to get to Brooklyn. If tunnel is not possible then as a bridge can be another option.

[Vistausss]

Were you even paying attention? I said for those NOT going to Manhattan!!! Plus tunnel to Manhattan is too long. Obviously you haven't seen the BQE & BELT. Or paid attention to the fact that outerboroughs are growing faster than Manhattan. Tunnel to bay ridge then train continues to queens via triborough line that however people would pay for why simple look at the tolls on the bridge plus only 2 buses go to Brooklyn and they are not fast last I checked.

 

And how many people are *not* going to Manhattan from SI? And by that I mean by public transportation or in cars that are willing to take public transportation.

[bobtehpanda]

That can be future phase. Not immediately but it would increase ridership paying ones on the SIR. Plus getting to downtown Brooklyn becomes faster. And as a whole It would be faster way to link to Brooklyn you can kill multiple birds with that stone in the future should the need arise but it would also allow cars to get serviced directly without trucking. It could also have a combination cross harbor tunnel that allows SIR to get to Brooklyn. If tunnel is not possible then as a bridge can be another option.

 

The only paid ridership on the SIR goes to St. George.

 

A bridge is not possible and is just foamer bullshit.

 

The Cross Harbor Tunnel has always bypassed Staten Island.

 

And what the hell does "cars to get serviced directly without trucking" mean?

 

Let's keep all of our fantasies within a reality check, alright? It is very hard to justify the economics of rail expansion into Staten Island, especially if the zoning is not changed (and if you think Staten Islanders are too stupid to argue against or don't care to argue about significant upzonings, you've got another thing coming)

[N6 Limited]

SI to Bay Ridge is not going to work for the aforementioned reason: the ferry. The only thing that would work is a bridge or tunnel to Manhattan, but only if there's a free transfer involved (so either it's gonna be subway to St George or SIR to South Ferry with free transfer to the subway). People from SI who have to travel further than South Ferry would take it for sure. I mean, if they have to go further they have to pay the subway fare at SF anyway so why not directly from St George?

 

Of course, that is not going to happen in a million years but *if* something would work, *then* it'll be a Manhattan connection, not Bay Ridge connection...

If riders had an alternate route off Staten Island they'd use it. Not everyone is going to Manhattan and the RX line would connect to every subway line essentially.

 

Were you even paying attention? I said for those NOT going to Manhattan!!! Plus tunnel to Manhattan is too long. Obviously you haven't seen the BQE & BELT. Or paid attention to the fact that outerboroughs are growing faster than Manhattan. Tunnel to bay ridge then train continues to queens via triborough line that however people would pay for why simple look at the tolls on the bridge plus only 2 buses go to Brooklyn and they are not fast last I checked.

While a lot of cars on the Belt Parkway (In Brooklyn mostly) are going to/from Staten Island, many of them are not stopping in SI, they are going through to  NJ. The RX line wouldn't help them, but the RX would increase ridership between boroughs as it would make it much easier and faster.

[realizm]

The only paid ridership on the SIR goes to St. George.

 

A bridge is not possible and is just foamer bullshit.

 

The Cross Harbor Tunnel has always bypassed Staten Island.

 

And what the hell does "cars to get serviced directly without trucking" mean?

 

Let's keep all of our fantasies within a reality check, alright? It is very hard to justify the economics of rail expansion into Staten Island, especially if the zoning is not changed (and if you think Staten Islanders are too stupid to argue against or don't care to argue about significant upzonings, you've got another thing coming)

 

OK here we go.... The Staten Island tunnels from the Dual Contracts and IND days should have been built! One can only imagine how things could have been today in addition to the Outerbridge Crossing and Verrazano in the mix. Forget it, Staten Island would not look like the boondocks it is today and Bay Ridge would have been a major commercial district comparable to areas like Long Island City, Downtown Brooklyn, Flushing, etc etc.

 

Historically a really stupid mistake. Yes we had the wars, but thats not my point.

 

And yeah I am a foamer. Sue me.

[Vistausss]

OK here we go.... The Staten Island tunnels from the Dual Contracts and IND days should have been built! One can only imagine how things could have been today in addition to the Outerbridge Crossing and Verrazano in the mix. Forget it, Staten Island would not look like the boondocks it is today and Bay Ridge would have been a major commercial district comparable to areas like Long Island City, Downtown Brooklyn, Flushing, etc etc.

 

Historically a really stupid mistake. Yes we had the wars, but thats not my point.

 

And yeah I am a foamer. Sue me.

 

*prepares lawsuit*

 

 

No but seriously: one thing that makes me wonder: let's think of an alternate reality where they did build the tunnels and there's service on it now. What would've happened to SIR? Would it become obsolete? Or would it become obsolete in the 2000 era (given that still would've taken over SIR from B&O)? Or something else?

[realizm]

*prepares lawsuit*

 

 

No but seriously: one thing that makes me wonder: let's think of an alternate reality where they did build the tunnels and there's service on it now. What would've happened to SIR? Would it become obsolete? Or would it become obsolete in the 2000 era (given that still would've taken over SIR from B&O)? Or something else?

 

I smiled to myself upon reading this, you are on the right track no pun intended.

 

Well to make a long story short I am an avud reader of Ben Kabek's Second Ave Sagas and he had discussed this issue at length. He stated that if the tunnels have been built, rather if the Dual Contracts or/and Second System IND has been actually built to completion we would have been living in a much more economically strong New York City as commuters will have uch more caccess to many places. We could have experienced an economic boom that is only a dream today. many sleeper towns would have been bustling commercial districts today had it happened.

 

As for the SIR, it would not have been obsolete, to the contrary my friend in my honest opinion it would have been enhanced. Would it have been run as the Staten Island Railway? maybe not but it certaintly would have been a bustling and very busy network to a Staten Island that would have been vastly different then it is today had it happened. With the ingenious public works projects we have today such as the verrazano the bounds for propsperity on the island would have been the stuff of economic dreams.

[bobtehpanda]

OK here we go.... The Staten Island tunnels from the Dual Contracts and IND days should have been built! One can only imagine how things could have been today in addition to the Outerbridge Crossing and Verrazano in the mix. Forget it, Staten Island would not look like the boondocks it is today and Bay Ridge would have been a major commercial district comparable to areas like Long Island City, Downtown Brooklyn, Flushing, etc etc.

 

Historically a really stupid mistake. Yes we had the wars, but thats not my point.

 

And yeah I am a foamer. Sue me.

 

I honestly think that if the 4th Av tunnel had been built as proposed, Staten Island would be a lot nicer. However, I also think that whatever was in the realm of possibility prior to 1929 is certainly not in the realm of possibility today, given that many more Staten Islanders want to preserve their 'way of life'. It just wouldn't have the same impact (and back then, more people were willing to sacrifice speed; by the time the subway system declined, St. George and Bay Ridge would be bigger 'transit anchors').

 

I have issues with people proposing a bridge across the Narrows (because that is never, ever happening; that wouldn't have happened even if the 1929 plans were enacted, simply because the overwhelming majority of the city has an entirely justifiable suspicion of els, not to mention the harbor clearances and the steep grades required to reach that height). I have an even bigger issue with someone proposing to do it with the Triboro RX, where no preexisting right of way exists and all current proposals have the train curving northwards to meet at 59th St .

 

In the grand scheme of things, a tunnel to Staten Island would be "nice to have". It's not a priority. We should extend the subway in heavily congested sections of the outer boroughs, to shorten commute times for a greater amount of people; Staten Island has less than half the population of every other borough.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I honestly think that if the 4th Av tunnel had been built as proposed, Staten Island would be a lot nicer. However, I also think that whatever was in the realm of possibility prior to 1929 is certainly not in the realm of possibility today, given that many more Staten Islanders want to preserve their 'way of life'. It just wouldn't have the same impact (and back then, more people were willing to sacrifice speed; by the time the subway system declined, St. George and Bay Ridge would be bigger 'transit anchors').

 

I have issues with people proposing a bridge across the Narrows (because that is never, ever happening; that wouldn't have happened even if the 1929 plans were enacted, simply because the overwhelming majority of the city has an entirely justifiable suspicion of els, not to mention the harbor clearances and the steep grades required to reach that height). I have an even bigger issue with someone proposing to do it with the Triboro RX, where no preexisting right of way exists and all current proposals have the train curving northwards to meet at 59th St .

 

In the grand scheme of things, a tunnel to Staten Island would be "nice to have". It's not a priority. We should extend the subway in heavily congested sections of the outer boroughs, to shorten commute times for a greater amount of people; Staten Island has less than half the population of every other borough.

That's the spirit... Staten Island has the fastest growing population out of all of the boroughs and that's folks like myself left... QOL is going down the tubes there... Too much building... Too much congestion and while a subway isn't wanted by many who want to keep it isolated, I'm sure a light rail would be welcomed to keep out potential riff-raff.

[qjtransitmaster]

And how many people are *not* going to Manhattan from SI? And by that I mean by public transportation or in cars that are willing to take public transportation.

Do they have KEYWORD PRACTICAL transit options to complete said trip? Do tell me how fast the S53 is by all means do tell.  How does the S79 help those going deep into Brooklyn? Directly I mean. In less than 4 transfers.

BRT separate lanes on belt upto Knapp street right?

If riders had an alternate route off Staten Island they'd use it. Not everyone is going to Manhattan and the RX line would connect to every subway line essentially.

 

While a lot of cars on the Belt Parkway (In Brooklyn mostly) are going to/from Staten Island, many of them are not stopping in SI, they are going through to  NJ. The RX line wouldn't help them, but the RX would increase ridership between boroughs as it would make it much easier and faster.

That's the point exactly what I was trying to say. What parts of NJ?

[qjtransitmaster]

That's the spirit... Staten Island has the fastest growing population out of all of the boroughs and that's folks like myself left... QOL is going down the tubes there... Too much building... Too much congestion and while a subway isn't wanted by many who want to keep it isolated, I'm sure a light rail would be welcomed to keep out potential riff-raff.

Funny a subway to SI isn't practical due to structure. As for riff raff they will still come regardless of the subway. Light rail due to flexibility and in fact via a tunnel can take over the sea beach express tracks to get to south Brooklyn faster later on to JFK if possible but one step at a time.

[Vistausss]

 What parts of NJ?

 

Bro tip: look at where the express buses during rush hour are going (yes, the express buses, not that damn S8x to Bayonne...). They travel primarily to areas along the NJ Turnpike.

[qjtransitmaster]

Bro tip: look at where the express buses during rush hour are going (yes, the express buses, not that damn S8x to Bayonne...). They travel primarily to areas along the NJ Turnpike.

I noticed that actually on my last trip.

[realizm]

That's the spirit... Staten Island has the fastest growing population out of all of the boroughs and that's folks like myself left... QOL is going down the tubes there... Too much building... Too much congestion and while a subway isn't wanted by many who want to keep it isolated, I'm sure a light rail would be welcomed to keep out potential riff-raff.

 

That's the spirit... Staten Island has the fastest growing population out of all of the boroughs and that's folks like myself left... QOL is going down the tubes there... Too much building... Too much congestion and while a subway isn't wanted by many who want to keep it isolated, I'm sure a light rail would be welcomed to keep out potential riff-raff.

 

Funny a subway to SI isn't practical due to structure. As for riff raff they will still come regardless of the subway. Light rail due to flexibility and in fact via a tunnel can take over the sea beach express tracks to get to south Brooklyn faster later on to JFK if possible but one step at a time.

Dont listen to him, QJ, he is saying that out of misguided opinion to mislead others as usual not fact. The fastest growing borough is actually Brooklyn not Staten Island.

 

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/nyregion/census-estimates-for-2011-show-population-growth-in-new-york.html?_r=0

 

Notice the notion of 'buildings' as to indicate projects and 'riff raff' to indicate the reality of the influx of blacks into SI and this idea of white flight which is being thrown around in the said comment you are reading which indicates issues that is based on biased imagination, not fact.

 

Yet another thing wrong with the post you are reading and responding to aside from the erroneous demographic viewpoints which conflicts with statistics based on the 2011 Census. Dont fall for the lies dude, that is not true what he is saying. just as a heads up on this biased pandering seen in the post you quoted. Dont fall for his lies.