de Blasio promises rapid bus system, hires new DOT commissioner

[bobtehpanda]

Well, wasn't it LaGuardia that wanted the 2nd and 3rd Avenue Els gone instead of waiting for SAS to be finished before tearing down the 2nd Avenue El? I say the 2nd because it was the strongest of the 4 Els and therefore, would have made more sense to keep it instead of the Third.

 

The overwhelmingly big push came from real estate interests. LaGuardia liked cars (and made the streets one-way and ripped out the streetcar tracks to prove his point), but I remember hearing somewhere that Moses actually didn't want the Third Av El torn down (at least in the Bronx).

 

Keep in mind that all the development on the UES today only happened after the 2nd and 3rd Av Els were destroyed. It's usually real estate interests that want these things done; there are other cases of this, including (i think) the Green Line's southernmost stations in Chicago, and the Jamaica El within Jamaica.

[Mtatransit]

The overwhelmingly big push came from real estate interests. LaGuardia liked cars (and made the streets one-way and ripped out the streetcar tracks to prove his point), but I remember hearing somewhere that Moses actually didn't want the Third Av El torn down (at least in the Bronx).

 

Keep in mind that all the development on the UES today only happened after the 2nd and 3rd Av Els were destroyed. It's usually real estate interests that want these things done; there are other cases of this, including (i think) the Green Line's southernmost stations in Chicago, and the Jamaica El within Jamaica.

Moses won't want to close an subway line, he tends to built an highway near a subway line to drive it out of business and an eventual shut down he spend so much of the citys money that the city didn't give the subways an cent.

[N6 Limited]

For a transit forum, there sure are a lot of caveman-level idiotic statements about pedestrian plazas around here. Odd how businesses and sane people like them. If you're driving in Midtown Manhattan and you're not driving a cab, a local delivery or public service vehicle, you're an idiot and deserve the pain. Times Square needed the pedestrian space, because in case some around here haven't noticed, IT'S CROWDED AS f**k. Yeah, let's pave over every last inch of this city for the SUV-driving mouthbreathers. Maybe while we're at it, we can exhume Robert Moses' corpse and begin demolishing everything in sight for MOAR HIGHWAYS.

 

Seek mental help

Well..., It would've be nice if the Bushwick, LOMEX, MIDMEX and Cross-Brooklyn Expressways were actually built. And if the Clearview Expressway terminated at Hempstead Ave & Jamaica Ave, if not JFK like originally Planned. 

[qjtransitmaster]

Well..., It would've be nice if the Bushwick, LOMEX, MIDMEX and Cross-Brooklyn Expressways were actually built. And if the Clearview Expressway terminated at Hempstead Ave & Jamaica Ave, if not JFK like originally Planned. 

The cross rd can be done.

[BrooklynBus]

What Can We Expect From the New Commissioner?

 

Sheepsheadbites Blog

 

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2014/01/what-can-we-expect-from-the-citys-new-transportation-commissioner/

[B35 via Church]

What Can We Expect From the New Commissioner?

More empty promises, as usual......

[bobtehpanda]

Well..., It would've be nice if the Bushwick, LOMEX, MIDMEX and Cross-Brooklyn Expressways were actually built. And if the Clearview Expressway terminated at Hempstead Ave & Jamaica Ave, if not JFK like originally Planned. 

 

That would be absolutely atrocious. Those highways would've done for city neighborhoods what the Cross-Bronx did to the South Bronx, and what the Gowanus did to the neighborhoods around it.

 

If anything, the only highways that should've been built through the city would be SI Expressway > Belt > Southern State, GWB > Major Deegan, and the Thruway > Throgs Neck > Cross Island. The highway system in the boroughs today was a mistake.

[Culver]

Well..., It would've be nice if the Bushwick, LOMEX, MIDMEX and Cross-Brooklyn Expressways were actually built. And if the Clearview Expressway terminated at Hempstead Ave & Jamaica Ave, if not JFK like originally Planned. 

Not really. Those would've all been rather awful things to do. The only one with any actual useful potential was LOMEX, but they couldn't find a way to do that one that didn't involve destroying giant chunks of neighborhoods (like with the others). Oddly, nowadays, I don't know if anybody would mind plowing over the shitshow that is Canal St.

[qjtransitmaster]

Not really. Those would've all been rather awful things to do. The only one with any actual useful potential was LOMEX, but they couldn't find a way to do that one that didn't involve destroying giant chunks of neighborhoods (like with the others). Oddly, nowadays, I don't know if anybody would mind plowing over the shitshow that is Canal St.

Lol you would think with that Shitshow they would giveup and take the PATH to subway.

[BrooklynBus]

That would be absolutely atrocious. Those highways would've done for city neighborhoods what the Cross-Bronx did to the South Bronx, and what the Gowanus did to the neighborhoods around it.

 

If anything, the only highways that should've been built through the city would be SI Expressway > Belt > Southern State, GWB > Major Deegan, and the Thruway > Throgs Neck > Cross Island. The highway system in the boroughs today was a mistake.

The only problem with the disruption the Gowanus caused was that it was built over Third Avenue. It would have caused little disruption over Second Avenue where many wanted it to be built instead. The X Bronx would have also caused less disruption if it were rerouted by Crotona Park by displacing 3,000 fewer families.

[bobtehpanda]

The only problem with the disruption the Gowanus caused was that it was built over Third Avenue. It would have caused little disruption over Second Avenue where many wanted it to be built instead. The X Bronx would have also caused less disruption if it were rerouted by Crotona Park by displacing 3,000 fewer families.

 

But as history goes to show, Moses was as stubborn as an ox and held grudges for a very long time, and was not exactly one for compromising with the community.

 

(Apparently, his refusal to reroute the Cross Bronx was due to the fact that he lost the fight to acquire the Dyre Av Line, which he wanted to host the City's section of the Thruway.)

[BrooklynBus]

But as history goes to show, Moses was as stubborn as an ox and held grudges for a very long time, and was not exactly one for compromising with the community.

(Apparently, his refusal to reroute the Cross Bronx was due to the fact that he lost the fight to acquire the Dyre Av Line, which he wanted to host the City's section of the Thruway.)

The story I remember from Cairo's book was that rerouting it to Crotona Park would have meant that the factory owned by one of his friends woud have to be relocated since it was in the path of the alternate route, so in his mind it was better to displace 3,000 families. No doubt he was a cold hearted SOB. He even blacklisted hs own brother, who was also an engineer, from getting a job in NYC.

[bobtehpanda]

The story I remember from Cairo's book was that rerouting it to Crotona Park would have meant that the factory owned by one of his friends woud have to be relocated since it was in the path of the alternate route, so in his mind it was better to displace 3,000 families. No doubt he was a cold hearted SOB. He even blacklisted hs own brother, who was also an engineer, from getting a job in NYC.

 

The Routes Not Taken (which is a very good book on what the subway could've been) reports that the Borough President at the time pushed very hard for Dyre to be taken by the BOT (which until the very end wanted nothing to do with Dyre), and this was one of the few cases where the BOT actually outmaneuvered Moses. Apparently, after WWII and the Dyre acquisition, the same Borough President had a very hard time getting public works built in the Bronx. So it could be a lot of things.

 

Part of me doesn't understand why people glorify Moses and say things like "We need a transit Moses", because we really, really do not want to go back down that road.

[BrooklynBus]

The Routes Not Taken (which is a very good book on what the subway could've been) reports that the Borough President at the time pushed very hard for Dyre to be taken by the BOT (which until the very end wanted nothing to do with Dyre), and this was one of the few cases where the BOT actually outmaneuvered Moses. Apparently, after WWII and the Dyre acquisition, the same Borough President had a very hard time getting public works built in the Bronx. So it could be a lot of things.

 

Part of me doesn't understand why people glorify Moses and say things like "We need a transit Moses", because we really, really do not want to go back down that road.

As much as I dislike Moses, I admire his ability to get things done. I think all in all we would be worse off without him. There woudn't have been a Belt Parkway, LIE, etc. the best we would have had would have been a Belt Parkway Boulevard and the LIE would have been Horace Harding Blvd, like Queens Blvd. without his foresight, Woodhaven Boulevard would never have been built. If the road woud have been widened later, it probably would have been without service roads because it would have required too much demolition if it were done after the war.

 

I think of that every time I have to drive across Brooklyn without the Belt Parkway and how long it takes as compared to driving across Queens which can be done in one third the time. His ability to get money for his projects was phenomenal. The Triborough Bridge was stalled for 14 years before he took over. People make the argument at if he never would have lived all the money that was put into highways would have gone Into mass transit but there is absolutely no proof that would have been the case. We might never have gotten the mass transit extensions we needed and not have gotten the highways either, and we would have been in an even bigger mess.

[bobtehpanda]

As much as I dislike Moses, I admire his ability to get things done. I think all in all we would be worse off without him. There woudn't have been a Belt Parkway, LIE, etc. the best we would have had would have been a Belt Parkway Boulevard and the LIE would have been Horace Harding Blvd, like Queens Blvd. without his foresight, Woodhaven Boulevard would never have been built. If the road woud have been widened later, it probably would have been without service roads because it would have required too much demolition if it were done after the war.

 

I think of that every time I have to drive across Brooklyn without the Belt Parkway and how long it takes as compared to driving across Queens which can be done in one third the time. His ability to get money for his projects was phenomenal. The Triborough Bridge was stalled for 14 years before he took over. People make the argument at if he never would have lived all the money that was put into highways would have gone Into mass transit but there is absolutely no proof that would have been the case. We might never have gotten the mass transit extensions we needed and not have gotten the highways either, and we would have been in an even bigger mess.

 

I'm of the opinion that certain highways were mistakes (the Sheridan and Jackie Robinson Parkways come to mind), but my main problem with Moses is that he also drew up the plans for many other American cities, and that many of these routes happened to go through minority areas.

 

I'm pretty sure that Queens Blvd was up for highway conversion at one point (similar to the former Horace Harding Blvd and Van Wyck Blvd) but I have no idea why that never went through. Despite the terrible traffic, I'm not really convinced that Queens needed anything other than the GCP, LIE, Van Wyck, and Cross Island. (More road capacity just induces more traffic, and the Clearview isn't really all that useful.)

 

Queens would certainly be less of a PITA to travel around if the Plan for Action had gone through, but unfortunately we don't live in that world today.

[BrooklynBus]

I'm of the opinion that certain highways were mistakes (the Sheridan and Jackie Robinson Parkways come to mind), but my main problem with Moses is that he also drew up the plans for many other American cities, and that many of these routes happened to go through minority areas.

 

I'm pretty sure that Queens Blvd was up for highway conversion at one point (similar to the former Horace Harding Blvd and Van Wyck Blvd) but I have no idea why that never went through. Despite the terrible traffic, I'm not really convinced that Queens needed anything other than the GCP, LIE, Van Wyck, and Cross Island. (More road capacity just induces more traffic, and the Clearview isn't really all that useful.)

 

Queens would certainly be less of a PITA to travel around if the Plan for Action had gone through, but unfortunately we don't live in that world today.

The roads you cite as not useful (Clearview, Sheridan) were all roads that were never finished which is why they are not useful. Moses built all his roads in pieces. That's how he built so much until people started revolting and woudn't let him complete them. I don't know about Queens Blvd, but I know he wanted the Prospect Expressway to replace Ocean Parkway.

 

It seemed like he didn't want any of his roads to end. Even the West Shore Expressway was never finished as you can tell from the clumsiness of the entrance after leaving the OuterBridge. You can also see unfinished stumps. He planned it to go further south to Hylan Blvd which probably would have been turned into the Hylan Expressway. Otherwise there would have been no need for the West Shore to go further south.

[qjtransitmaster]

Cool debate guys very insightful & inspiring.

[N6 Limited]

That would be absolutely atrocious. Those highways would've done for city neighborhoods what the Cross-Bronx did to the South Bronx, and what the Gowanus did to the neighborhoods around it.

 

If anything, the only highways that should've been built through the city would be SI Expressway > Belt > Southern State, GWB > Major Deegan, and the Thruway > Throgs Neck > Cross Island. The highway system in the boroughs today was a mistake.

 

Did the Cross Bronx Expressway really destroy the neighborhood? The Bushwick Expressway wasn't built, look at what happened to Bushwick. The Cross Brooklyn Expressway wasn't built, can you explain East NY and Brownsville? What about the Grand Central, Cross Island, Belt Parkway, LIE? Their bordering neighborhoods are doing well. 

Not really. Those would've all been rather awful things to do. The only one with any actual useful potential was LOMEX, but they couldn't find a way to do that one that didn't involve destroying giant chunks of neighborhoods (like with the others). Oddly, nowadays, I don't know if anybody would mind plowing over the shitshow that is Canal St.

Canal is a congested polluted mess. You can certainly notice the difference in air quality.

Lol you would think with that Shitshow they would giveup and take the PATH to subway.

Sometimes I drive to NJ via the Holland and the LOWMEX would have been great instead of taking Delancy across and making my way to the Tunnel. However, at least NYCDOT fixed the signals and have them in sync. They finally woke up.

 

I've also taken the PATH and it's just much quicker to drive. I can get to NJ in about 45 mins, then drive to wherever I need to, where as by subway and PATH it would take at least 90 mins just to cross state lines, then complete PATH trip maybe some bus or cab or whatever. It's only somewhat viable if you're already in Manhattan.

 

Also, what people need to realize is that just because someone is driving across canal street into NJ or Brooklyn, doesn't mean they're going to locations that are easily accessible or convenient by public transportation. Those driving into NJ may not be going near a path train or NJT station, they may be going to PA, DE, DC! Those going to South East Bk, Queens or Long Island etc.

 

The only problem with the disruption the Gowanus caused was that it was built over Third Avenue. It would have caused little disruption over Second Avenue where many wanted it to be built instead. The X Bronx would have also caused less disruption if it were rerouted by Crotona Park by displacing 3,000 fewer families.

The Gowanus (Parkway) was built using the existing pillars/structure of the Third Ave El so there was already a structure there, but it didn't block as much light. It was converted to an Expressway when the Verrazano Br was built. The Crotona Park Alignment would have been better and cheaper! The CBX is like the crappiest part of the entire I-95!

 

But as history goes to show, Moses was as stubborn as an ox and held grudges for a very long time, and was not exactly one for compromising with the community.

 

(Apparently, his refusal to reroute the Cross Bronx was due to the fact that he lost the fight to acquire the Dyre Av Line, which he wanted to host the City's section of the Thruway.)

You can see in old plans the path of I-95 was supposed to follow that alignment It certainly would have been more direct. Maybe the Bruckner would be less congested near Pelham Parkway

 

The story I remember from Cairo's book was that rerouting it to Crotona Park would have meant that the factory owned by one of his friends woud have to be relocated since it was in the path of the alternate route, so in his mind it was better to displace 3,000 families. No doubt he was a cold hearted SOB. He even blacklisted hs own brother, who was also an engineer, from getting a job in NYC.

I wonder if that factory is still there

 

I'm of the opinion that certain highways were mistakes (the Sheridan and Jackie Robinson Parkways come to mind), but my main problem with Moses is that he also drew up the plans for many other American cities, and that many of these routes happened to go through minority areas.

 

I'm pretty sure that Queens Blvd was up for highway conversion at one point (similar to the former Horace Harding Blvd and Van Wyck Blvd) but I have no idea why that never went through. Despite the terrible traffic, I'm not really convinced that Queens needed anything other than the GCP, LIE, Van Wyck, and Cross Island. (More road capacity just induces more traffic, and the Clearview isn't really all that useful.)

 

Queens would certainly be less of a PITA to travel around if the Plan for Action had gone through, but unfortunately we don't live in that world today.

I use the Jackie Robinson Parkway when I go to BK, along with the Grand Central it's a lovely alternative to the Belt Parkinglot.  The Jackie Robinson was supposed to continue down Pennsylvania Ave to the Belt Parkway and connect to the Bushwick and Cross Brooklyn Expressways.

 

The Sheridan was supposed to follow the Dyre line to the Thruway as I-95.

 

Correct, Queens Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd and Ocean Parkway were up for conversion, like Horace Harding Blvd, Van Wyck Blvd and Bruckner Blvd. I believe the history is up on nycroads.com 

 

The Clearview was supposed to go to JFK airport, but community opposition stopped its progression. it is useful to bypass the Cross Island Parkway's bridge traffic.

 

Queens is not too bad to get around, Crossing Brooklyn sucks though

[BrooklynBus]

@N6 Limited: I definitely agree with your last comment.

 

However, it is indisputable that the XBronx did destroy the central Bronx. But I believe the highway was definitely needed (with a realignment) to serve the GW Bridge.

 

The XBrooklyn was not proposed to travel through Brownsville and East NY.

 

The Gowanus also destroyed a vibrant shopping strip, which was unnecessary. So what if those pillars were there? They were only in use until to road was rebuilt, so it woudn't have mattered if the road was moved to 2nd Avenue in the long term.

[N6 Limited]

@N6 Limited: I definitely agree with your last comment.

 

However, it is indisputable that the XBronx did destroy the central Bronx. But I believe the highway was definitely needed (with a realignment) to serve the GW Bridge.

 

The XBrooklyn was not proposed to travel through Brownsville and East NY.

 

The Gowanus also destroyed a vibrant shopping strip, which was unnecessary. So what if those pillars were there? They were only in use until to road was rebuilt, so it woudn't have mattered if the road was moved to 2nd Avenue in the long term.

Aren't the "worst" sections of the Bronx away from the highways?

 

The Cross-Brooklyn was proposed to use Conduit Blvd's median, then branch off and follow Linden Blvd and the Freight Rail Line Across Brooklyn, aren't Conduit and LInden Blvds in East NY and Brownsville?

[BrooklynBus]

Depends what you consider the worst sections of the Bronx. The decline of the Bronx starting in the early sixties was caused by a number of factors. You certainly can't blame the XBronx for all of the Bronx's problems, but the XBronx caused many middle class families to be displaced and a general decline of the immediate area.

 

In the past 20 years, the Bronx has undergone a remarkable resurgence. Much of that has happened in the South Bronx where artists are moving in increasingly to what once were dilapidated factories. The area around the XBronx has seen no such resurgence.

 

As far as Brooklyn is concerned, I think you are confusing a few things. There was a highway proposed for the median of the Conduit but it wasn't the Cross Brooklyn. The XBrooklyn was to replace the Bay Ridge freight line to Broadway Junction where it would connect with the Interboro and the proposed Bushwick Expressway. I believe the Conduit road which I think would have been called the Conduit Expressway was to continue to Atlantic Avenue which also would have become an expressway to meet the Bushwick, Interboro, and XBrooklyn at Broadway Junction.

 

The XBrooklyn would have been built until Mayor Lindsay decided he wanted Linear housing (low and moderate income) above its length to be called "Linear City". No one wanted housing and that's what killed the expressway.

[N6 Limited]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2014/01/what-can-we-expect-from-the-citys-new-transportation-commissioner/

 

According to the Bushwick Expressway page on NYCroads.com, Conduit Blvd is the result of a planned Belt Parkway Spur to Atlantic Ave. Which later became part of plans for the Bushwick Expressway.

 

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/cross-brooklyn/

 

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/bushwick/

[BrooklynBus]

According to the Bushwick Expressway page on NYCroads.com, Conduit Blvd is the result of a planned Belt Parkway Spur to Atlantic Ave. Which later became part of plans for the Bushwick Expressway.

 

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/cross-brooklyn/

 

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/bushwick/

That's what I thought. It wasn't part of the Cross Brooklyn.

[bobtehpanda]

Did the Cross Bronx Expressway really destroy the neighborhood? The Bushwick Expressway wasn't built, look at what happened to Bushwick. The Cross Brooklyn Expressway wasn't built, can you explain East NY and Brownsville? What about the Grand Central, Cross Island, Belt Parkway, LIE? Their bordering neighborhoods are doing well. 

Canal is a congested polluted mess. You can certainly notice the difference in air quality.

Sometimes I drive to NJ via the Holland and the LOWMEX would have been great instead of taking Delancy across and making my way to the Tunnel. However, at least NYCDOT fixed the signals and have them in sync. They finally woke up.

 

The effect of highways on urban property values is well documented (people flee old, dense neighborhoods due to air and noise pollution). In fact, the use of Dyre as a Thruway route was opposed on these grounds.

 

The major difference between the Cross Bronx and the Queens highways is that the Queens highways were built with a park buffer around them. Actually using these parks is kind of terrible (you can't exactly jog along a road that'll give you asthma), but they shield surrounding properties from the blight associated with urban highways. Sections of the LIE that have "nice" neighborhoods also do not suffer as much due to the fact that parts of the highway are sunken; where the highway is above ground, such as Utopia Parkway or LIC, and not surrounded by park buffer, you'll notice that the areas look significantly worse.

 

Keep in mind that the Brooklyn neighborhoods you mention were prime victims of the "white flight", which happened as a result of school desegregation and redlining. The gentrification of these neighborhoods has not happened largely due to their distance from the city (although Bushwick is gentrifying at a rapid clip)

 

Canal is a mess largely because everyone is trying to avoid the Verrazano toll. If the East River bridges were tolled at the same rate as the QMT, you wouldn't see this mess. LOMEX would've been bad as it would've destroyed most of Soho and Chinatown and turned those neighborhoods into urban wastelands, much as the downtowns of many American cities have become blighted parking lots. Quite frankly, Manhattan shouldn't have highways at all (except the Cross-Harlem), because there isn't any room on the island for them.

 

I use the Jackie Robinson Parkway when I go to BK, along with the Grand Central it's a lovely alternative to the Belt Parkinglot.  The Jackie Robinson was supposed to continue down Pennsylvania Ave to the Belt Parkway and connect to the Bushwick and Cross Brooklyn Expressways.

 

 

The Sheridan was supposed to follow the Dyre line to the Thruway as I-95.

 

Correct, Queens Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd and Ocean Parkway were up for conversion, like Horace Harding Blvd, Van Wyck Blvd and Bruckner Blvd. I believe the history is up on nycroads.com 

 

The Clearview was supposed to go to JFK airport, but community opposition stopped its progression. it is useful to bypass the Cross Island Parkway's bridge traffic.

 

Queens is not too bad to get around, Crossing Brooklyn sucks though

 

My issue with the Jackie Robinson is that it's way too narrow. The road would be better suited as an urban street given the amount of space it has.

 

The Sheridan is a duplicate of the Bronx River Parkway. I don't imagine that building the Sheridan cost less than converting the Bronx River Parkway to Interstate standards.

 

Honestly, the Clearview is kind of pointless when Francis Lewis Blvd isn't that congested, has speeding on a regular basis, and has few light-controlled intersections.

 

The problem with Moses and the highway engineers of his generation is that they didn't know when to stop. Cities such as New York, Toronto, and San Francisco were able to stop their highway buildings before the worst of the highways were built, and that's largely why they're so dynamic today. In places such as New Orleans, Atlanta, Buffalo, Detroit, and Dallas, they never quite stopped until they ran out of money, and their central cities are largely dead, the highways are considered to be planning mistakes, and many of them are tearing down urban highways or building corrective infrastructure such as the Atlanta Beltline.

 

Are highways convenient? Sure! But they come at a huge cost in urban areas, and should be used sparingly. The city is not supposed to be designed for the convenience of suburbanites.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Depends what you consider the worst sections of the Bronx. The decline of the Bronx starting in the early sixties was caused by a number of factors. You certainly can't blame the XBronx for all of the Bronx's problems, but the XBronx caused many middle class families to be displaced and a general decline of the immediate area.

 

In the past 20 years, the Bronx has undergone a remarkable resurgence. Much of that has happened in the South Bronx where artists are moving in increasingly to what once were dilapidated factories. The area around the XBronx has seen no such resurgence.

I don't know what this "resurgence" is that everyone keeps talking about but the Bronx has a long way to go. The few good neighborhoods are said to be on the decline such as Throggs Neck (overbuilding) and Morris Park (long time Italians dieing out) with only areas like Woodlawn (thanks largely to the stronghold of the Irish-Americans and new arrivals from Ireland and the Italian-American and Greek residents), Country Club, Pelham Bay and Pelham Parkway holding on.  There has been some rebuilding in some areas that were really run down, but much of the South Bronx is still heavily ghetto and remain as such due to the large clusters of housing projects and their distance to Manhattan.  Some parts of Brooklyn became hip because of their closeness to Manhattan but most of the areas near the subway in the Bronx are absolute dumps.  The good neighborhoods tend to be more isolated, not near any subway (requiring the express bus or Metro-North) and a distance away from Manhattan.  That's exactly why the Bronx gets the express bus service that it does...

 

White flight in the Bronx was mainly due to the loads of housing projects dumped into various middle class neighborhoods, along with the expressways rammed through.  The other reasons were arson from greedy property owners and whites wanting to relocate to the suburbs for more space.