IND 76th Street Station?!?!?

[LRG]

Maybe someone should find a safe way to go down to the tracks at Euclid Avenue, and walk down to the false wall, and dig a tunnel below the wall, and see where they would burrow themselves into. They might burrow themselves into the 76th Street Station if it exist. If it exist the person who successfully goes down there, and comes back out with photos would be one famous railfan.

 

Pah, forget famous, they'll just be idiots like the downright stupid move they'd be performing trying to take down a subway wall structure.

[INDman]

More proof of 76th Street!

 

 

That map is NOT proof, it only shows what would have been built past 76th St. That map means nothing.

[INDman]

Maybe someone should find a safe way to go down to the tracks at Euclid Avenue, and walk down to the false wall, and dig a tunnel below the wall, and see where they would burrow themselves into. They might burrow themselves into the 76th Street Station if it exist. If it exist the person who successfully goes down there, and comes back out with photos would be one famous railfan.

 

There is no safe way to get down to the Grant Av lay-up tracks. Oh and they have already done something similar to that, but I can't say any more.

[SubwayGuy]

no subway car, but since 1950 its been covered up by officials to this day. Supposedly, the station was the eastern terminal for the fulton street subway from november 1948 to december 1948. According to historians, the station was done by non-union members and legal action was to follow. The city quietly closed the station, and covered up ALL evidence of its existence because no construction contracts can be produced. There has been maps and newspaper articles about this over the decades. Its not like the South 4th St complex or the Roosevelt Avenue terminal where its "yeah, its there but we never used it". Its believed that because of the nature of how it was built, Its existence can never be officially admitted. Its a legal liability.

 

HA! Looks like someone read an old April's fools prank and took it too seriously.

 

The station has never been in service. Conclusive proof of it's existence does not exist but there are those who have their theories and base it on more than diagrams and track maps, and signal boards at Euclid Avenue.

 

I'll leave it at that. Cue pointless speculation and "what if" scenarios. It's more fun that way.

[EE Broadway Local]

I soitenly can 7LineFan: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/76st.html Mr. Brennan did this page in 2002.

Can you give me the link to that page where you found it?

[SubwayGuy]

i soitenly can 7linefan: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/76st.html mr. Brennan did this page in 2002.

 

[[insert laughter]]

[Joe]

I soitenly can 7LineFan: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/76st.html Mr. Brennan did this page in 2002.

 

Page last updated 1 April 2002.

 

...

[SubwayGuy]

Hey Joe, it's not like I didn't add my 2c. Bold, italic, underline.

 

Imagine that. SubwayGuy right about something. Who knew?

 

HA! Looks like someone read an old April's fools prank and took it too seriously.

The station has never been in service. Conclusive proof of it's existence does not exist but there are those who have their theories and base it on more than diagrams and track maps, and signal boards at Euclid Avenue.

 

I'll leave it at that. Cue pointless speculation and "what if" scenarios. It's more fun that way.

[Joe]

Hah, I didn't even see that. I skimmed down the page and Joe Brennans link stuck out like a sore thumb.

[EE Broadway Local]

What's so special? It's a urban legend. Here is an excellent page from forgotton ny of this interesting area. There are photos of the intersection of Pitkin Avenue and 76th Street: http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SCENES/borderlineeldert/borderlineeldert.html

What's so special about 76th street station anyway? Does it have like a subway car or something there?

[SubwayGuy]

What's so special? It's a urban legend. Here is an excellent page from forgotton ny of this interesting area. There are photos of the intersection of Pitkin Avenue and 76th Street: http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SCENES/borderlineeldert/borderlineeldert.html

 

And yet somehow the only place you will "see" that photo of that R10 is on Joe Brennan's April fool's site.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Good to know that prank is still going strong almost 9 years later

[bigrene18]

As originally envisioned, the Pitkin Av tracks through and beyond 76 St were to have connected to the LIRR ROW near the old Aqueduct station via a portal from beneath the ROW. According to a contract book I have seen which describes the takeover of the Fulton St El structure, beyond Hudson St interlocking existing BMT signalling was to be used as far as Lefferts. That would mean that even as late as 1948 when Euclid opened, Liberty Junction as we know it as not planned.

 

I have heard several reasons why the subway was not extended down Pitkin to the LIRR. One is that engineers encountered soil problems which would have made further construction extremely difficult if not impossible. The other is of course, plain economics. The present reconstruction of Liberty Junction even with the extensive reconstruction of the el structure was a lot cheaper than continuing the subway down Pitkin Av and digging a portal under the LIRR ROW. As for the expense of the new signalling on the el, new signalling would have had to be provided in a new subway anyhow, so there probably was no additional cost involved.

 

As for witnesses, I know 3 individuals who have seen the station. One is a retired C/R who is now deceased. The oher two to my knowledge are still living. One is a retired M/M instructor and the other is a retired schedule manager both of whom were working as construction flagmen at the time that Grant Av station was being built. According to the retired sched mgr, the two of them got lost in the labarynth of tunnels south of Euclid Av and came upon the shell of the 76 St station. Some of my sources indicate that prior to the connection to the Fulton St el, there was only a wooden bulkhead in place at the end of A-1 through A-4 tks south of Euclid.

 

As part of the construction of Grant Av station, the wooden bulkhead was removed and replace with the present concrete one and so for a brief period, the area beyond the wall was exposed to the view of any employee whose duties required them to be in that location. According to the retired C/R, he rode a long yard move into A-1 tk S/O Euclid and saw the shell of 76 St station from the head end of the train although he never said how close to the station he got but it must have been very close. According to him, there was tile on the station walls indicating 76 St, the platform was rough and unfinished and the only track that got as far as the station was A-1 tk. Coincidentally, the concrete bulkhead at the end of A-1 tk zigs so that the track is at least 25 or 30 ft shorter than the other 3 tracks. That's short enough so that a full 10 car train cannot be stored there and clear the switch to K-1 tk.

 

After all, the whole line was built east of B'way - East New York, station shells and all before WWII stopped further construction. It's very well possible that not only was it built to Euclid Avenue, but to 76th St. It was all built but they couldn't get metal for the tracks and signals, so it sat there until the war was over. Only then did they lay the track and finish the work. So there lies the loophole, where it "could" have been built. However, unfortunately, there's no physical proof. Anything built beyond that wall was built when the whole line was built from Rockaway Ave through East New York, and onward towards Euclid and beyond. Obviously, the line was supposed to go further. We also know that construction stopped because of WWII. The controversy is not that they planned to go further (we all know they did), the controversy is just how far of the subway tunnel shells they built prior to the end of construction before WWII.

 

Although, my sources claim the station was tiled, it doesn't make any sense to me that the station would have been tiled while the platform was left as unfinished rough concrete. I believe, however that City Hall Lower level on the BMT was like that also with fully tiled walls and unfinished platforms. I've been to City Hall LL myself and just don't remember. The Liberty to Euclid stations definitely were not tiled before WWII because if you notice, the tile work is a different type from that used on the stations up to ENY. It's highly likely that although Bway/ENY was not opened until after WWII, it was tiled before construction stopped since it is the last station on the IND with the traditional style shiny "glass" tiles. The only reason I can see for the station walls at 76 St being tiled before the platform finish would be the speed at which the individual subcontractors worked. By the way, if I recall. my late friend Sammy Shifter said that only the S/B platform at 76 St was tiled and I got the impression that the N/B platform had no tiles. I have no idea what the reason for this might have been. Speaking of differences in tile, the L/L of 42nd St/8th Ave apparently had no tile on the walls until sometime in the mid 1950s and probably received its tiles around the same time that Grant Av station was built since like the stations on the Pitkin Av subway and at 179 St, its tiles are of the newer type characteristic of late 1940s through 1960s construction and not the pre-war type.

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[bigrene18]

This is the bumper block at the end of layup track A2. Concrete bulkhead wall in the back as expected.

 

 

From the very same position (the camera has not been moved, just rotated in the tripod), we see signal 412 facing the dead end. There are only perhaps 2-3 car lengths from the wall. Odd?

 

This signal on A3 faces the wall... I'm no signal expert but this seems out of place if you ask me. It is again perhaps 2-3 carlenghts from the wall.

 

Here it gets more interesting. This is the former switch from the track that leads eastbound out of the yard and connects to the A just past grant av. The photo is taken facing north. Pitkin yard is behind. Toward Grant av. is the track to the left, towards where 76th street might be is the track diverging to the right. You can plainly see the crossties and rails from where the switch was pulled.

 

This is the top side of the wall with recent graffiti on it. as ou can see it is CINDERBLOCK, not concrete as you would expect to find at the end of a tunnel.

 

This is the signal schematic inside the signal room behind Euclid Tower. the text speaks for itself. Note the bulkhead wall.

 

This is a close up of the very right side of the model board in Euclid tower.

 

Other signals exist on the IND which were intended for the Second System, such as the automatic signals N/O Roosevelt which have all aspects and field equipment to be home signals guarding the ramps down from the upper level. The ramp leading down to the Manhattan bound track east of Roosevelt Avenue used to have trackage on it at one point (probably from 1933 to 1936 when Roosevelt Ave was the terminal) and a train could be laid up on it, hence the signaling.

 

Here's what the the ramp leading down to the Manhattan bound track east of Roosevelt Avenue looks like:

Photo by: Mark S. Feinman

Notes: Looking south, this is the ramp that would have connected the IND Rockaway Line to the IND Queens Blvd Manhattan-bound local track. The small dot in the background is a signal on the IND Queens Blvd line, the larger dot is the Roosevelt Ave / Jackson Heights express station.

 

Photo by: Mark S. Feinman

Notes: Same view as before but a little closer to the IND Queens Blvd Line.

[N-Trizzy2609]

I know if theres anything behind that wall, it would just be a open tunnel space which is PITCH black or something that looks like South 4th Street which will be again PITCH black otherwise there dirt behind that wall =)

[Roadcruiser1]

If the station is real then it would have four tracks, and 2 side platforms.

[R160]

Just read this thread...THAT IS AWESOME!

 

Does anyone know if there are any other planned stations/extensions like this somewhere in the system? (Not like 18th St, City Hall, Worth St., etc.)

[Roadcruiser1]

R160 this entire map, and the stations we are currently talking about belongs in this map, or the never built IND Second System. The 76th Street station would be on the Fulton Street Extension branch.

[Far Rock Depot]

That map is NOT proof, it only shows what would have been built past 76th St. That map means nothing.

 

HA! Looks like someone read an old April's fools prank and took it too seriously.

 

The station has never been in service. Conclusive proof of it's existence does not exist but there are those who have their theories and base it on more than diagrams and track maps, and signal boards at Euclid Avenue.

 

I'll leave it at that. Cue pointless speculation and "what if" scenarios. It's more fun that way.

 

The map is "proof" that conflicts all denial of any plans for 76th St at least. The idea of it and the "Urban Legends" that come from it makes this discussion fun. Because what IF its true? I didnt take it too seriously. IF you read My post thoroughly, I began the story with the word "supposedly". You might want to look that word up. Im not one to 'foam'. But seriously, its enough to want to find out more. Look at the old Atlantic ave tunnel that an individual dug out himself? urban legend has it that behind a concrete wall is an old steam train behind it. yeah that tunnel has been proved there NOW, but i bet back it the days, its was another "76th St". What made me think about the possibility is that if the station shell was made by non-union labor, logically, having it in service will be a legal liability. And im not sure if theres a stature of limitations in a case like that. Open up your mind a little. It doesnt hurt to pass on the urban legend to see that maybe in the future, someone wil be able to find out the answers. Is it there? Was it completed? Was it in service? Was, and is there still, a conspiracy to deny its existence? DOnt be too quick to shoot down everything. The map shows proof that its not all just a story. Its proof of the possibility. To say it means nothing is closed minded. And if a closed mind truly holds any weight, that Atlantic Ave tunnel would've never been found.

 

Another example: the Lower Manhattan Expressway. A Robert Moses project that was never completed. word has it there's a completed tunnel portion in the lower east side. There's no physical evidence of it from street level, And no known photos of the tunnel itself, but there's no denial of its existence.

 

An example like that makes me personally believe that the possibility of 76th ST's existence has merit. Now the questions need to be answered. Any info is good info so long as in time, facts can appeared. Now the back story of 76th st from the abandoned stations site may not be fact, but passing it on may bring someone forward who knows something and can shed some light, like bigrene18. Now theres more info we can look into.

 

And as far as the "photo" of that R10, anyone who knows MTA history knows the "corporate scheme" (blue stripe) didn't exist until after 1968.

 

Now for sake of debate, what proof do you have that it never saw service or even existed?

 

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"

[Roadcruiser1]

This is proof that 76th Street was in service for a while. This was from Hagstrom in 1948.

 

From Columbia EDU it seems like there were both NIMBY opposition, and people suing the TA, because they believed the station was built by non unionized workers. Thus the TA closed the station on purpose to avoid all trouble. That is why the , and uses the Fulton Street Elevated past Grant Avenue.

[Far Rock Depot]

This is proof that 76th Street was in service for a while. This was from Hagstrom in 1948.

 

From Columbia EDU it seems like there were both NIMBY opposition, and people suing the TA, because they believed the station was built by non unionized workers. Thus the TA closed the station on purpose to avoid all trouble. That is why the , and uses the Fulton Street Elevated past Grant Avenue.

 

that can be debated since its from the Abandoned stations site. Im currently trying to find the full map. The only info i can find online so far is information regarding the map is: "New York Rapid Transit map, December 1948

Hagstrom map -- Subway & Elevated

issued by New York City Board of Transportation

 

Summary: An official map of the New York rapid transit system, including both Subway and Elevated lines. The map is printed in full colour on one side; the other side is printed with service information in black-and-white text. It was produced under the Hagstrom Maps brand by Hagstrom Company, Inc., but was issued by the New York City Board of Transportation.

 

This map was issued three days after the previous edition (28th November 1948). The map itself seems to be identical and has the same Hagstrom date code." this was from here: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1948-dec-new-york-subway-map-bot-hagstrom

 

Now although this still isnt concrete proof that it never saw service, it can still support it. And naturally the changes listed there does not include the removal of 76th ST, But it the story of the legal issues that could have been caused from it hold any weight, Logic says that if you're trying to deny something, you would erase ALL evidence that can catch you in lying about that denial. The debate and speculation continues.......

 

"Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

[bigrene18]

Does anyone know if there are any other planned stations/extensions like this somewhere in the system? (Not like 18th St, City Hall, Worth St., etc.)

 

Yeah. Just read the Unbuilt Stuff thread. I listed ALMOST all of them. It seems like I'm the only one here who knows about this kind of stuff....

[bigrene18]

This picture....

 

...is actually this picture:

 

That R10 B train photo was taken at 7th Ave/53rd St.

Not to mention that diehard railfan that is still on that train at the RF window from the "1940's" to the 1970's when the 7th Ave photo was taken. That poor railfan lost in the twilight zone somewhere....

[EE Broadway Local]

Here is a 1948 subway and el map from The Board Of Transportation, issued by Hagstrom:

 

Link To Large 1948 Map: http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/system_1948.gif

 

And here is the service guide for the 1948 subway and el map:

 

Link To 1948 Service Information: http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/system_1948_routeinfo.gif

 

Notice that the is listed as 207th Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

Also notice that the , an original IND. route is not listed in 1948.

 

Finally, notice that the terminated at Hudson Terminal (today The World Trade Center with the 70(CC) and 70(AA) (and started at Parsons Boulevard), the terminated at Broadway-Lafayette Street, the terminated at Church Avenue, the (BB) terminated at 34th Street-Herald Square, and that 179th Street wasn't open yet (Opened in 1950).

[bigrene18]

Here is a 1948 subway and el map from The Board Of Transportation, issued by Hagstrom:

 

Link To Large 1948 Map: http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/system_1948.gif

 

And here is the service guide for the 1948 subway and el map:

 

Link To 1948 Service Information: http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/system_1948_routeinfo.gif

 

Notice that the is listed as 207th Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

Also notice that the , an original IND. route is not listed in 1948.

 

Finally, notice that the terminated at Hudson Terminal (today The World Trade Center with the 70(CC) and 70(AA) (and started at Parsons Boulevard), the terminated at Broadway-Lafayette Street, the terminated at Church Avenue, the (BB) terminated at 34th Street-Herald Square, and that 179th Street wasn't open yet (Opened in 1950).

 

Yes we know all of that, but what does this have to do with the 76th Street station?