Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #26 Posted August 30, 2014 Tell that to the x22A riders. Those trips are PACKED in the AM! Regardless of the fact that it runs through Tottenville and the vast majority of the South, I see this x21 as a way of relieving the x17J, since those J trips get crushed. Regardless, the same thing was said about the x22A, and those trips get packed in both directions. Let's wait and see. I personally see this as a way to relieve x17Js, but it also might damage x31 service as well at that. The X22A trips many people can and do just drive to just like people do with the X17J. Hell even I would get car service over to the X17J if I was running behind. I would have them drive me over to Richmond Av down near Victory so I would get a good seat and not have to go too far on the bus. Folks do the same with the X22A... With the X17 on weekends, later on in the day I would get car service to the last stop. At that time it wasn't crowded and didn't stop in Bay Ridge, so it was a quick ride to the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 30, 2014 Share #27 Posted August 30, 2014 Tell that to the x22A riders. Those trips are PACKED in the AM! Regardless of the fact that it runs through Tottenville and the vast majority of the South, I see this x21 as a way of relieving the x17J, since those J trips get crushed. Regardless, the same thing was said about the x22A, and those trips get packed in both directions. Let's wait and see. I personally see this as a way to relieve x17Js, but it also might damage x31 service as well at that. Different dynamic.... The x22a is a variant of the x22, so you figure it was gonna garner some x22 riders (which been solidified its riderbase) anyway.... Whereas the x21 is a new service that isn't a variant of any current route.... I'm not saying this for the x21 in particular, but in general, I don't like all these 1/2 hourly headway routes the MTA has been pumping out this past year or so.... Reeks to me of a band-aid solutionary reaction to going about enhancing our bus system (albeit local or express)..... But back to the x21 itself.... I thought about it a little more, and I'm beginning to think this new route was a way of "giving back" midtown peak service that was stripped away from the x1..... You mention relief of the x17j, and you maybe right.... By saying that, if this route ends up being a quote-unquote success, don't be surprised if you start noticing lessening of total trips on the x17 route...... -------- As far as the x31.....IMO, regardless of the inception of the x21 or not, it has no business ending at ETC, (unless there is some interline that I'm unaware of)..... It should be a variant of; or fused into, the 17 routing (it can still keep the same route #, that doesn't matter) terminating in Heartland Village/New Springville (specifically, at Windham Loop @ Marsh).... Past that point, that route consistently carries air.... Always did.... At ETC itself, too many people seeking 17's since it is FAR more frequent, so you may as well have that route (31) hone in on the "unique" riderbase it currently serves.... Probably knock off about 5 mins. of so of runtime w/ the truncation, to boot.... The whole AM via Brooklyn & PM via NJ operation of the route can remain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted August 30, 2014 Share #28 Posted August 30, 2014 Different dynamic.... The x22a is a variant of the x22, so you figure it was gonna garner some x22 riders (which been solidified its riderbase) anyway.... Whereas the x21 is a new service that isn't a variant of any current route.... I'm not saying this for the x21 in particular, but in general, I don't like all these 1/2 hourly headway routes the MTA has been pumping out this past year or so.... Reeks to me of a band-aid solutionary reaction to going about enhancing our bus system (albeit local or express)..... But back to the x21 itself.... I thought about it a little more, and I'm beginning to think this new route was a way of "giving back" midtown peak service that was stripped away from the x1..... You mention relief of the x17j, and you maybe right.... By saying that, if this route ends up being a quote-unquote success, don't be surprised if you start noticing lessening of total trips on the x17 route...... You're right, it is a different dynamic. I forgot, when did they make x1s start only at 23rd Street again? Was it after the 2010 cuts? As for the x21, what I was thinking is that the AM trips could possibly supplement and/or replace the AM 17J trips that start over at ETC. Though at the same time, the fact that this will be running straight along 42nd in both directions is a bit of a deterrent considering that most folks from the island usually go more North from 42nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #29 Posted August 30, 2014 Different dynamic.... The x22a is a variant of the x22, so you figure it was gonna garner some x22 riders (which been solidified its riderbase) anyway.... Whereas the x21 is a new service that isn't a variant of any current route.... I'm not saying this for the x21 in particular, but in general, I don't like all these 1/2 hourly headway routes the MTA has been pumping out this past year or so.... Reeks to me of a band-aid solutionary reaction to going about enhancing our bus system (albeit local or express)..... But back to the x21 itself.... I thought about it a little more, and I'm beginning to think this new route was a way of "giving back" midtown peak service that was stripped away from the x1..... You mention relief of the x17j, and you maybe right.... By saying that, if this route ends up being a quote-unquote success, don't be surprised if you start noticing lessening of total trips on the x17 route...... -------- As far as the x31, IMO, it has no business ending at ETC (unless there is some interline that I'm unaware of)..... It should be a variant; or fused into, the 17 routing (it can still keep the same route #, that doesn't matter) terminating in Heartland Village (specifically, at Windham Loop @ Marsh).... Past that point, that route carries air.... Always did.... Too many people seeking 17's since it is FAR more frequent out of ETC.... The whole AM via Brooklyn & PM via NJ handling of the route can remain..... lol... I said it earlier in this thread... This is nothing more than the trying to get folks off of the X1... Anytime the X1 starts becoming too crowded, they add more service elsewhere if possible on the variants... During 09:00, the X1 runs roughly about every 5 minutes, and those buses can bunch sometimes... I kept saying to myself, they need more service now and they should add another X2... Sure enough, next pick they added another X2, not just to deal with overcrowding, but probably to see how many people really need the X1... Helped a little bit, as I used to use that last bus from time to time, but those X1s were still crowded. This is very similar IMO.... The other thing is the X1's now are starting to become packed before they even reach New Dorp which is ridiculous. A few Sundays ago I got on at New Dorp on a late bus thinking there would plenty of open seats... Boy was I wrong... I got the last two row seat to myself.... Bus was almost SRO, and this was almost 22:00 at night going to the city... Now that they've introduced 24/7 service on that line they've opened up a Pandora's box because everyone wants to flock to it, including folks from the North Shore. What they need to be doing is restoring express bus service along Forest Avenue. Too many people driving down to Hylan for express bus service from the North Shore... You're right, it is a different dynamic. I forgot, when did they make x1s start only at 23rd Street again? Was it after the 2010 cuts? As for the x21, what I was thinking is that the AM trips could possibly supplement and/or replace the AM 17J trips that start over at ETC. Though at the same time, the fact that this will be running straight along 42nd in both directions is a bit of a deterrent considering that most folks from the island usually go more North from 42nd. Yeah that was when it occurred, and people were saying, how could they cut the X1???!!?? LOL That cut deterred people from running so much to the X1 but only for a little while... I used to take other buses too (X12, X15, etc. to get in) but the frequencies sucked, so I started it saying f*ck it... Get car service to Hylan for days when I wanted to go in later and I can have a ton of express bus service to chose from... X1 every 5 minutes, and then the X2 is there too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 30, 2014 Share #30 Posted August 30, 2014 You're right, it is a different dynamic. I forgot, when did they make x1s start only at 23rd Street again? Was it after the 2010 cuts? As for the x21, what I was thinking is that the AM trips could possibly supplement and/or replace the AM 17J trips that start over at ETC. Though at the same time, the fact that this will be running straight along 42nd in both directions is a bit of a deterrent considering that most folks from the island usually go more North from 42nd. You got the answer to your question there.... As for the other part of your post..... For lack of a better term, that's the stupid thing about this x21, running across 42nd like that..... You're right, it does ignore the demand for midtown express service north of 42nd (x23/24 is most certainly proof of said demand; well, when AE ran it anyway, I don't know how ridership is on those routes now since academy took over)..... I mean hell, We don't need an M42 clone running to Staten Island for christ's sake! It's enough that the "via NJ" routes take forever & a minute to get the hell off of 42nd st during the PM hrs., en route to the tunnel approach (which is a whole 'nother can of worms I won't bother delving into) - and that's just 42nd from 5th w/ the x17 & x30 (or lex, for the x22 & 31), let alone exp. bus running east of GCT..... (running to) The UN building?? Really... wtf at that shit...... Too many people driving down to Hylan for express bus service from the North Shore... Too much politicking within SI with this whole North shore - South shore bit....... But yeah, the south shore is over-saturated with express bus service (and people still drive to ETC for the expresses, go figure).... Whereas with the North shore, the x10 runs the show, with a few bastard children mixed in with the bunch (by that, I'm referring to rush hour only routes)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 30, 2014 Share #31 Posted August 30, 2014 Too much politicking within SI with this whole North shore - South shore bit....... But yeah, the south shore is over-saturated with express bus service (and people still drive to ETC for the expresses, go figure).... Whereas with the North shore, the x10 runs the show, with a few bastard children mixed in with the bunch (by that, I'm referring to rush hour only routes)...... It is all about politics and the Mid Island and South Shore has the more powerful politicians... Hell even the current Borough president made a comment about how his area needed more buses (express buses that is). At the time he represented the Mid island and tried to do so without slighting the North Shore, but his message was loud and clear. I honestly believe that the North Shore is suffering to some degree. Some folks are moving... Longer commutes without some lines running now, plus QOL is deteriorating on some parts of the island and it shouldn't be a shocker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted September 1, 2014 Share #32 Posted September 1, 2014 From what I understood from the union. It went to castleton for a few reasons 1. Neither Yukon nor Charleston have any more room for buses to cover the work. 2. Castleton garage has the least callouts out of the three garages and the union really wants this line to succeed 3.To give castleton drivers a "better" line option to drive even if it is express From the impression I got the underlying reason the X21 exists is bcuz the union is steamed that they didn't get the X23 and X24. They weren't even informed of when it was up for grabs. They more or less went to sleep with the them being ran by atl express and awoke the next morning with academy doing it. So now the 21 is scheduled to run 3 to 5 minutes in front of the 24 on purpose The X23 is spilling over, so the MTA is running the route in this manner to deal with the overflow. If they had run it as an SI Mall super express to Manhattan, the buses would be packed from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161 New York Posted September 3, 2014 Share #33 Posted September 3, 2014 The X23 is spilling over, so the MTA is running the route in this manner to deal with the overflow. If they had run it as an SI Mall super express to Manhattan, the buses would be packed from day 1. I think you are refering to the x24, which is more heavily used than the x23. From my experiences, my odds of getting an x23 are a lot better on 8th or 9th Avenue @ 34 st in the 6pm hour than the x24. The x21 stops at or near three stops along the x23 ( Woodrow @ AR Kill Rd, Arden @ AR Kill Rd and 440 @ AR Kill Road). From my experiences on the x23 AM runs, the buses are 75%-80% occcupied of total passengers prior to reaching AR Kill Road (in the 5-630 AM period). Of those several were from the x17J. Last week, I heard a few passengers on the x23 who wanted to try out the new x21 and that some of them "drive" to the existing stops on the x23. No familiar faces were on the x21 bus in the PM today and I have been riding on the x23/x24 since 2003-2005 and 2010->onwards. So today, I was on one of the PM runs and on my particular bus there were only 20 people. What was unexpected, nobody got off at the first stop (440 @ AR Kill Road). To be honest, in my opinion, if the MTA was looking for a "target market" for the x21, i'm not 100% sure if the x1 riders would be it. Only the hardiest of souls would subject themselves to the punishing travels from East Midtown somehow getting to 23rd Street or Downtown and going lets say below New Dorp Lane. Coming from the PABT to the to Park Place for the x17 (1 mile the SI end) if I work very late is insanity for me. They may be looking at attracting or assisting: - x5 passengers - x24 passengers who travel from Hylan (and why the x24 begins at Hylan/Tysens Lane has been a little lost on me since you are traveling south for an extended time). - x23/x24/x22 passengers who use the 440/ AR Kill Road stop Or as stated earlier in a previous thread, maybe they are looking to truncate the x17J to the Eltingville Transit Center instead of Huguenot Ave. Or maybe there will be a major rework of the express bus network in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 3, 2014 Share #34 Posted September 3, 2014 To be honest, in my opinion, if the MTA was looking for a "target market" for the x21, i'm not 100% sure if the x1 riders would be it..... That's just it... It's not about seeking a target market, per se (I'd go as far as to say, at all).....They simply want to take people off x1's (and other routes as well) w/ this x21.... It's a completely supplementary route in SI..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 3, 2014 Share #35 Posted September 3, 2014 That's just it... It's not about seeking a target market, per se (I'd go as far as to say, at all).....They simply want to take people off x1's (and other routes as well) w/ this x21.... It's a completely supplementary route in SI..... Yes, and I think that the X1 was the one that they're most concerned about. He does have a point about the X5 though. That route has been a huge headache for years, esp. in the morning, which buses either going MIA or bunching terribly. People standing in aisles, etc as a result and then an empty X5 coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted September 3, 2014 Share #36 Posted September 3, 2014 I still think the X21 could use a stop at 5/ Madison. Seeing how it just goes from 6 to Lexington, makes me wonder how many more riders it could get (especially the X24). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 3, 2014 Share #37 Posted September 3, 2014 I still think the X21 could use a stop at 5/ Madison. Seeing how it just goes from 6 to Lexington, makes me wonder how many more riders it could get (especially the X24). It's called a "Super Express" for a reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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