The Elephant in the Room

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Transit has always had a we-are-prepared-for-just-about-everything-and-will-get-through-it approach. If we lose that mentality, we will have lost a hell of a lot more than just our identity as a tough city as these "transplants" and their PTA inspired ideals keep coming in and telling us that the way we've been living successfully for as long as we can remember is "unsafe".

It's nice to have that mentality, but it's clear that the fragile system we call a subway here is NOT ready for everything. 

[Art Vandelay]

Compared to most, we have a pretty robust system. Besides that, Snow is something we are ready for and can handle throughout most of the system almost regardless of volume. We know where the problem areas are. The Dyre, The Brighton, The Franklin shuttle, The Sea Beach, The inner part of the Flushing line(33rd-46th), and the Rockaway lines. Besides that, the biggest issues are in the transition areas between tunnel and el, but most of the time service is frequent enough and the areas are small enough that these areas stay clear.  

[Wallyhorse]

Yes that's the key... YEARS ago when the subway system wasn't a 100+ years old...

 

In any event, this is ridiculous.  How long were people inconvenienced?? One bloody day if that?? Give me a break.  You say why shut down the system? Well for starters, the subway system as shown time and time again is fragile.  Last night train riders were stuck on a train for TWO HOURS because an umbrella hit the third rail.  That knocked out the ENTIRE line, which I find ridiculous.  If all it takes is an umbrella to do that, a snow storm could certainly do much worse.  I would be in favor of running our system in more severe weather, but the fact of the matter is every year the subway system becomes WORSE not better, and that is a fact that even the acknowledges when one looks at on-time performance, which continues to decrease, with more and more subway lines running later than scheduled.  Some people are up in arms about the subway being shut down because they are nothing more than fans, but anyone who is a realist and using the subway for commuting to and from work (which can include weekends) knows that the subway system continues to deteriorate, and unless massive amounts of funding go to the system for an array of upgrades, I don't see anything becoming better.

 

I really do feel for those who have to rely on the system because it's a mess.  I use the subway once a week and literally pray that I can get to my destination on time and this is just a short commute from Midtown to Uptown, which can take 40 minutes in some cases between excessive waits and delays.

And what happened on the was actually caused by a dropped umbrella that hit the third rail and had to be cleared which led to all the other problems, something that doesn't likely happen in a pure snowstorm (and whoever dropped that given it was the day after the Super Bowl might very well have for all we know had too much to drink on Super Sunday and might have been hung over, and if so it would not surprise me given "Super Monday" is often the day of the highest absenteeism for the entire year).   This was as much FREEZING RAIN as snow, and freezing rain is actually WORSE than snow in many ways.

 

Also, this was on the OUTDOOR portions that likely would have been among the lines closed if the snow last week got bad enough the old way.  We were talking about keeping the UNDERGROUND portions open as well as those areas that can be more easily kept clear.

[46Dover]

I like Subway Guy's approach, but to add on to VG8's point about "fragility", a lot of our subway cars from R142 series on up is computerized, not so sure that will hold up well in inclement weather such as snow (I think there was an issue with sending R160s out on Far Rockaway trains). Could this also be a thing too?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And what happened on the was actually caused by a dropped umbrella that hit the third rail and had to be cleared which led to all the other problems, something that doesn't likely happen in a pure snowstorm (and whoever dropped that given it was the day after the Super Bowl might very well have for all we know had too much to drink on Super Sunday and might have been hung over, and if so it would not surprise me given "Super Monday" is often the day of the highest absenteeism for the entire year).   This was as much FREEZING RAIN as snow, and freezing rain is actually WORSE than snow in many ways.

 

Also, this was on the OUTDOOR portions that likely would have been among the lines closed if the snow last week got bad enough the old way.  We were talking about keeping the UNDERGROUND portions open as well as those areas that can be more easily kept clear.

I don't think it matters... The system overall is very fragile, be it underground or above ground. There are tons of stations in terrible shape and the point I was making was that the smallest little thing these days can knock out an entire line.  If something like can umbrella can cause a train to be stuck for TWO HOURS, I for one am skeptical about how well the system can perform in more trying situations.  Given the fact that I use the subway UNDERGROUND and see the massive delays that still occur, I simply am not convinced that the system is not already being stretched too thin.

 

I think somewhere I read about the Governor feeling pressured to shut down the subway because he doesn't have faith in the to operate and handle trying situations and I think he's right.

[RailRunRob]

I like Subway Guy's approach, but to add on to VG8's point about "fragility", a lot of our subway cars from R142 series on up is computerized, not so sure that will hold up well in inclement weather such as snow (I think there was an issue with sending R160s out on Far Rockaway trains). Could this also be a thing too?

I don't think this is the case. Newer cars have better propulsion and are way easier to maintain over all.. Let's look at there sister cars on the railroads The M7 and M7A's they definitely outperform the Cosmopolitans cars. What isn't computerized nowadays?. Cars over the last two decades if anything computers fair a lot better in the cold then they do the heat as far the I believe the issues with R160s are more about the power grid. and nominal voltage the Rockaways are covered by LIPA. the voltage is prone to dropping  across the flats. Voltage drops below 450-480v (I know this to be the case in other systems) Train stops.

[RailRunRob]

I don't think it matters... The system overall is very fragile, be it underground or above ground. There are tons of stations in terrible shape and the point I was making was that the smallest little thing these days can knock out an entire line.  If something like can umbrella can cause a train to be stuck for TWO HOURS, I for one am skeptical about how well the system can perform in more trying situations.  Given the fact that I use the subway UNDERGROUND and see the massive delays that still occur, I simply am not convinced that the system is not already being stretched too thin.

 

I think somewhere I read about the Governor feeling pressured to shut down the subway because he doesn't have faith in the to operate and handle trying situations and I think he's right.

Structurally the system is in good shape. Cosmetically we can make the case.  New York is a very special system we can count the amout of times the system stopped running in the past 110 years with these recent events post 9/11 and strikes over the years. So it's not like all the stations in the system can close overnight and get the same quality of maintenance throughout.  And yes the system is being stretched. Tell the governor he needs to invest in Infrastructure. And if he doesn't feel confident in his team or the MTA get a new one team. The buck stops with him. 

 

An umbrella couple with freezing rain and snow. yes it did stop one line. The system being as robust as it is offered alternatives and other lines. name another city where you have that in the States and the world for that matter? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Structurally the system is in good shape. Cosmetically we can make the case.  New York is a very special system we can count the amout of times the system stopped running in the past 110 years with these recent events post 9/11 and strikes over the years. So it's not like all the stations in the system can close overnight and get the same quality of maintenance throughout.  And yes the system is being stretched. Tell the governor he needs to invest in Infrastructure. And if he doesn't feel confident in his team or the MTA get a new one team. The buck stops with him. 

 

An umbrella couple with freezing rain and snow. yes it did stop one line. The system being as robust as it is offered alternatives and other lines. name another city where you have that in the States and the world for that matter? 

NYC has the largest subway system... That's no secret... It also has one of the most antiquated systems around, which has seen tons of neglect well before Cuomo, so let's not kid ourselves here as if he's been starving the and that's why the stations are in such poor shape.  It's been decades of neglect and Cuomo can't be blamed for that.  Something else that I read on another site... More and more workers are working here but live well outside of NYC, making it difficult to rely on them to help run the system in general (not just the subways).  Cuomo has nothing to do with that either.  Perhaps there should be a requirement that workers actually live either in NYC, Westchester or Long Island or areas where the runs. Pennsylvania wouldn't be one of them.

[RailRunRob]

NYC has the largest subway system... That's no secret... It also has one of the most antiquated systems around, which has seen tons of neglect well before Cuomo, so let's not kid ourselves here as if he's been starving the and that's why the stations are in such poor shape.  It's been decades of neglect and Cuomo can't be blamed for that.  Something else that I read on another site... More and more workers are working here but live well outside of NYC, making it difficult to rely on them to help run the system in general (not just the subways).  Cuomo has nothing to do with that either.  Perhaps there should be a requirement that workers actually live either in NYC, Westchester or Long Island or areas where the runs. Pennsylvania wouldn't be one of them.

Antiquated? Compared to what other systems of this age? London is just getting around to upgrading there lines The  Piccadilly line is just upgrading signaling from the 1950's/60s the Metropolitan and District are getting  CBTC and Upgrades. Since the late 70's your saying there hasn't been any strengthening of infrastructure? Yes there is technology from the 1940's still in use in some spot but it works.. How do you update every part of the system at the same time while keeping it all running?  Im not sure I understand your point? what's the solution. and when you say Antiquated you base that on what?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Antiquated? Compared to what other systems of this age? London is just getting around to upgrading there lines The  Piccadilly line is just upgrading signaling from the 1950's/60s the Metropolitan and District are getting  CBTC and Upgrades. Since the late 70's your saying there hasn't been any strengthening of infrastructure? Yes there is technology from the 1940's still in use in some spot but it works.. How do you update every part of the system at the same time while keeping it all running?  Im not sure I understand your point? what's the solution. and when you say Antiquated you base that on what?

I base it on the fact that trains are more and more delayed each year, stations are DANGEROUSLY operating with infrastructure literally falling apart, etc.  The system is fragile and the idea that it should run in all types of weather (when it clearly can't) is just preposterous.  Just the other day there were signal problems all over the system...

[RailRunRob]

I base it on the fact that trains are more and more delayed each year, stations are DANGEROUSLY operating with infrastructure literally falling apart, etc.  The system is fragile and the idea that it should run in all types of weather (when it clearly can't) is just preposterous.  Just the other day there were signal problems all over the system...

Based on what? you just told me you ride the train once a week. so show me the data. Delays are plenty on the IRT lines. Tell us something we don't know the Lex is over capacity been packed back to the mid 50's. Have you ever rode the Central or Northern Lines London at rush? How about the RER A or C lines in Paris delay central!  The Sea Beach and upper Nassau Line okay cosmetically nothings been done since they opened. besides maybe a few stairways the lines are sound and in good state infrastructure wise. Our stations aren't the prettiest once again not to sound like a broken record we don't get 5 hours of down time every nite.  Signal problems a railroad this big? With 26 lines and thousands of switches and diversion points it's a Statistics game. what other subway or transport are you comparing the subway too? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Based on what? you just told me you ride the train once a week. so show me the data. Delays are plenty on the IRT lines. Tell us something we don't know the Lex is over capacity been packed back to the mid 50's. Have you ever rode the Central or Northern Lines London at rush? How about the RER A or C lines in Paris delay central!  The Sea Beach and upper Nassau Line okay cosmetically nothings been done since they opened. besides maybe a few stairways the lines are sound and in good state infrastructure wise. Our stations aren't the prettiest once again not to sound like a broken record we don't get 5 hours of down time every nite.  Signal problems a railroad this big? With 26 lines and thousands of switches and diversion points it's a Statistics game. what other subway or transport are you comparing the subway too? 

I'm not comparing it to any because the subways that I've rode in Europe have been reliable and clean, which NYC subways can't even come close to. LOL The reason I ride once a week is because I do everything possible to AVOID the subway. I've rode just about every line in the system going back to when I lived in South Brooklyn, so I've VERY familiar with the system. It's just so deteriorated so much over the years that I don't use it unless it is absolutely necessary.

[P3F]

I'm not comparing it to any because the subways that I've rode in Europe have been reliable and clean, which NYC subways can't even come close to. LOL The reason I ride once a week is because I do everything possible to AVOID the subway. I've rode just about every line in the system going back to when I lived in South Brooklyn, so I've VERY familiar with the system. It's just so deteriorated so much over the years that I don't use it unless it is absolutely necessary.

I'm sorry, but unlike you suggest, the deterioration is being met. The Brighton Line was rehabilitated a few years back, so were parts of the West End. The Sea Beach line is going to be rehabilitated soon. The list goes on and on. You hear the MTA announcing "this station is partially closing for renovation" all the time. We are, in fact, making progress. It's not the '70s anymore.

 

Of course, to put it in your terms, there are still places in the subway that look like a "third world country", like Chambers Street J/Z, some stations on the Culver El, and even the SIR if we want to go to that borough. However, most of the system is fine and "acceptable" for usage by people.

 

In Washington D.C., the Metro is (considered by many) to be cleaner than the NYC Subway. The catch? It closes at night so that it can be cleaned for the next day. The NYC Subway does not close, except for the 42nd Street Shuttle platforms and Broad/Fulton on the J/Z.

 

Another point, why do you care if the subway isn't as impeccable as those you have apparently seen in Europe? I recently took a ride on a train, and instead of being disgusted at the minor amount of filth, I studied the tilework of the original IRT from 1904. Everybody has their own thing they like to do while on the subway, and maybe you need a change. Read a book or something, at least you won't see the dirtiness that you despise.

 

(Yes, I do ride the subway every day. That ride was just an example.)

 

Just my two cents, based on what I've noticed you are arguing in this thread. Carry on.

[RailRunRob]

I'm not comparing it to any because the subways that I've rode in Europe have been reliable and clean, which NYC subways can't even come close to. LOL The reason I ride once a week is because I do everything possible to AVOID the subway. I've rode just about every line in the system going back to when I lived in South Brooklyn, so I've VERY familiar with the system. It's just so deteriorated so much over the years that I don't use it unless it is absolutely necessary.

I love how you just totally side stepped mutiible examples of two other cities both in Europe and there issues. And went on with your story about you.. there is no rational discussion to be had here. whats the point.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I love how you just totally side stepped mutiible examples of two other cities both in Europe and there issues. And went on with your story about you.. there is no rational discussion to be had here. whats the point.

I didn't sidestep it because I haven't used the subways in the UK, so I can't speak about them, but the rail systems I've used elsewhere in Europe were clean and certainly superior to what exists in NYC.

 

I'm sorry, but unlike you suggest, the deterioration is being met. The Brighton Line was rehabilitated a few years back, so were parts of the West End. The Sea Beach line is going to be rehabilitated soon. The list goes on and on. You hear the MTA announcing "this station is partially closing for renovation" all the time. We are, in fact, making progress. It's not the '70s anymore.

 

Of course, to put it in your terms, there are still places in the subway that look like a "third world country", like Chambers Street J/Z, some stations on the Culver El, and even the SIR if we want to go to that borough. However, most of the system is fine and "acceptable" for usage by people.

 

In Washington D.C., the Metro is (considered by many) to be cleaner than the NYC Subway. The catch? It closes at night so that it can be cleaned for the next day. The NYC Subway does not close, except for the 42nd Street Shuttle platforms and Broad/Fulton on the J/Z.

 

Another point, why do you care if the subway isn't as impeccable as those you have apparently seen in Europe? I recently took a ride on a train, and instead of being disgusted at the minor amount of filth, I studied the tilework of the original IRT from 1904. Everybody has their own thing they like to do while on the subway, and maybe you need a change. Read a book or something, at least you won't see the dirtiness that you despise.

 

(Yes, I do ride the subway every day. That ride was just an example.)

 

Just my two cents, based on what I've noticed you are arguing in this thread. Carry on.

Please... I remember when some stations were rehabbed and now need to be rehabbed again due to shoddy work, so I would disagree about how "good" things are.  There are plenty of stations in the heart of Midtown that haven't been touched in years while other stations have been rehabbed once or twice in some cases.  Talk about priorities and why there is a lack of confidence in the system...    Oh and the rehab at 238th street on the line... They rehabbed part of the platform, but the rest of the station still looks like it is stuck in a time warp.... I can think of several other "rehabbed" stations like that....

[RailRunRob]

I didn't sidestep it because I haven't used the subways in the UK, so I can't speak about them, but the rail systems I've used elsewhere in Europe were clean and certainly superior to what exists in NYC.

 

Please... I remember when some stations were rehabbed and now need to be rehabbed again due to shoddy work, so I would disagree about how "good" things are.  There are plenty of stations in the heart of Midtown that haven't been touched in years while other stations have been rehabbed once or twice in some cases.  Talk about priorities and why there is a lack of confidence in the system...    Oh and the rehab at 238th street on the line... They rehabbed part of the platform, but the rest of the station still looks like it is stuck in a time warp.... I can think of several other "rehabbed" stations like that....

Europe like? U-Bahn? Milan  Which are you referring to? Let's stack the data.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Europe like? U-Bahn? Milan  Which are you referring to? Let's stack the data.

Milan, and Rome... Milan's Stazione Centrale by the way is certainly comparable to our Grand Central. Have also used transit in Germany and have been in Montréal.  There is no comparison because most of the places I've been to invest in their transit and make upgrades that last.

[bobtehpanda]

Milan, and Rome... Milan's Stazione Centrale by the way is certainly comparable to our Grand Central. Have also use transit in Germany and have been in Montréal.  There is no comparison because most of the places I've been to invest in their transit and made upgrades that last.

 

If we had managed to keep our systems running instead of deciding that low fares was worth driving them into the dirt for 30 years for, our subways would probably be in much better shape.

 

To put investment levels into context, the Parisian transit system is funded by a 3% payroll tax. The MTA's payroll tax is a tenth of this, and brings in $1.2 billion a year. Imagine if the MTA could invest $12B a year into the system.

[RailRunRob]

Milan, and Rome... Milan's Stazione Centrale by the way is certainly comparable to our Grand Central. Have also use transit in Germany and have been in Montréal.  There is no comparison because most of the places I've been to invest in their transit and made upgrades that last.

 

Ive rode three out of the four systems you just listed.. None of these cities run 24 Hour services nor do they have the bandwith to carry the sheer loads we have here. Millan carries what a million a day ? 4 lines If I remember the system Opened in the 1960's Montreal about the same as well. The biggest of the list maybe the U-Bahn I haven't done them all but Berlin I have I hope to get to the other systems. 10 lines there maybe 1.4 a day. This is really Apple to Oranges.. You can have upwards of 110 TPH on lines in NYC. what are we talking 150 k people being moved per hour one line. The Underground in London does have parallels with Routes like the Northern with 4 branches and switching points believe they have issues with delays and they don't 24 Hour service not yet at least. How do you compare any of these cities with NYC in just sheer movement. It's clear you don't have a background in transport. This kinda what I do.. Tho I haven't been active in the field in quite a few years. I do have a degree and had a background in Urban planing and Civil Transportation.   The job at hand always is to move people from point to point some I'm also very familiar with other cities and there transport and power distribution.  So once again how do we stack these newer systems with less people, Milage and routes to New York? Im not sure where to start?  This isn't a convo about having a love affaire with trains because I don't  at all  I have a love for the facts.

If we had managed to keep our systems running instead of deciding that low fares was worth driving them into the dirt for 30 years for, our subways would probably be in much better shape.

 

To put investment levels into context, the Parisian transit system is funded by a 3% payroll tax. The MTA's payroll tax is a tenth of this, and brings in $1.2 billion a year. Imagine if the MTA could invest $12B a year into the system.

A man that understands the game. Finally thank you!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ive rode three out of the four systems you just listed.. None of these cities run 24 Hour services nor do they have the bandwith to carry the sheer loads we have here. Millan carries what a million a day ? 4 lines If I remember the system Opened in the 1960's Montreal about the same as well. The biggest of the list maybe the U-Bahn I haven't done them all but Berlin I have I hope to get to the other systems. 10 lines there maybe 1.4 a day. This is really Apple to Oranges.. You can have upwards of 110 TPH on lines in NYC. what are we talking 150 k people being moved per hour one line. The Underground in London does have parallels with Routes like the Northern with 4 branches and switching points believe they have issues with delays and they don't 24 Hour service not yet at least. How do you compare any of these cities with NYC in just sheer movement. It's clear you don't have a background in transport. This kinda what I do.. Tho I haven't been active in the field in quite a few years. I do have a degree and had a background in Urban planing and Civil Transportation.   The job at hand always is to move people from point to point some I'm also very familiar with other cities and there transport and power distribution.  So once again how do we stack these newer systems with less people, Milage and routes to New York? Im not sure where to start?  This isn't a convo about having a love affaire with trains because I don't  at all  I have a love for the facts.

What part of you can't compare don't you understand?  These cities ALL invest in their transportation far more than the does and the difference shows.

[RailRunRob]

What part of you can't compare don't you understand?  These cities ALL invest in their transportation far more than the does and the difference shows.

Size and operation we can't compare. you wouldn't compare million dollar companies to billion dollar companies different brackets all together but okay lets talk about investment since you skipped the numbers with riders and operations . Bob did bring up a great point on fares and taxes a 31 mile ride for $2.50 is a hell of a ride. Should we have zoned fares? How does the get there investment for Capital investments? Can't be from fare or the measly tax there imposing. Didn't Albany just block some money to the ? You talk a good game Ill give you that.  What do you think the solution is? Why isn't the making these investments? Is because they do want to or that can't?  Seems to be a issues in a few other spots around the Country was well. How is this solved?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Size and operation we can't compare. you wouldn't compare million dollar companies to billion dollar companies different brackets all together but okay lets talk about investment since you skipped the numbers with riders and operations . Bob did bring up a great point on fares and taxes a 31 mile ride for $2.50 is a hell of a ride. Should we have zoned fares? How does the get there investment for Capital investments? Can't be from fare or the measly tax there imposing. Didn't Albany just block some money to the ? You talk a good game Ill give you that.  What do you think the solution is? Why isn't the making these investments? Is because they do want to or that can't?  Seems to be a issues in a few other spots around the Country was well. How is this solved?

I for one support Congestion pricing... This is a city that relies upon transportation and many of us (myself included) sacrifice by NOT driving and using it, and those who can use public transit but choose to drive and clog up the roads should pay more for that privilege.  Take that money and create a law that it must be earmarked for transit purposes only.  I don't think zoned fares are good because it penalizes those who live furthest out in the suburbs and does nothing but encourages those people to drive.  We need more people using transportation, and we need to continue to have a tier system where you have different tiers of services that vary in price (i.e. commuter buses and trains, then the subways and local buses).  Those who don't want to use the subway and can pay more should be marketed to with commuter train service and the express buses, along with more ferry service where possible.

 

In Italy there's the Freccia Rosa (formerly the Eurostar which I used quite a bit when traveling to and from my apartment in Florence) that serves as a high-end service for those who want a more luxurious commute that is fast and costs more.  It's marketed that way as well.  The needs to do the same.... 

[SubwayGuy]

If we had managed to keep our systems running instead of deciding that low fares was worth driving them into the dirt for 30 years for, our subways would probably be in much better shape.

 

To put investment levels into context, the Parisian transit system is funded by a 3% payroll tax. The MTA's payroll tax is a tenth of this, and brings in $1.2 billion a year. Imagine if the MTA could invest $12B a year into the system.

 

And the MTA never sees most of that money, because it is used to plug the state's budget deficit...under the guise of the state is already budgeting a slightly greater amount for the MTA, even though the reason that tax was enacted was to ADD to the investment in transit.

 

As for all the talk of apperances, it doesn't matter. A "dingy" station is still capable of providing service. Stations are being rehabbed. In the past few years, you have most of the West End stations, the upper Pelham line, some of the stations on the 1 in upper Manhattan, and the Brighton Line.

 

Going a little further back you have the entire White Plains Road line and Jerome Line, and many of the Manhattan stations on Lexington Avenue. The cosmetic work is being done but it takes time.

 

But whether or not a station looks "pretty" or not they are all safe to be in, and all of the underground ones could have provided service. Appearances are irrelevant to whether or not trains should have been running during a storm that prevented people from driving. Travel is freedom. I guess we're all content to just be forced to sit around at home then because of snow?

 

Talk about appearances is just as frivolous as the idiot railfans in the other thread I've been bashing who are complaining about bad subway car maintenance cuz they claim the brakes are loud and the trains are dirty...yet the cars provide reliable service.

 

Transit exists to provide SAFE SERVICE that is AS RELIABLE AS POSSIBLE (no system in the world is 100% reliable, and passengers are the #1 cause for delays anyway). It is NOT an art museum, not a commercial real estate space, not a parental authority figure telling you when you can and can't go out.

 

If you are worried about Third rails icing over, there are deicer cars with scraper shoes for that purpose. Switch heaters heat switch areas so the points of the switch don't become frozen in place. You have several different types of snow removal equipment down here. It is, in many ways, a railroad.

 

Politicians have proven themselves to be incompetent at just about every task. They lack the knowledge to actually get things done. They don't DO anything, they call people, and hope THEY do something. Why people in this thread would want to turn over more important decisions than the ones we already do (like balancing a budget, or establishing and maintaining a system that is supposed to provide income opportunity to each according to their skills in life - metrics pols are failing badly at, I might add) is something I will never understand or agree with.

[CenSin]

Via Garibaldi 8, you go on and on about how the government is doing this because it's necessary. It's not. And since you love comparing, let's do a comparison that's more at home.

 

The 1960s to 1980s was a terrible time for the subway. Everything was covered in graffiti, stations were in disrepair, and trains were practically running on toothpicks taped end-to-end. To quote from NYCSubway.org:

It would seem, looking back, that the New York City Transit Authority didn't have a chance in the 1970s. Only 4 days into 1970, the fare was raised from 20 cents to 30 cents, with riders to Rockaway paying a double fare. The fare increase was supposed to plug up large deficits in operations, and whatever surplus was available could go to infrastructure repairs. With this fare hike, ridership declined, and this vicious cycle of fare hike / reduced ridership would repeat itself several times in the 1970s. Yet the required maintenance was never done.

 

The rapid transit infrastructure of NYC in the 1970s was suffering from the effects of "deferred maintenance" initiatives started in the 1960s. The fiscal crisis of 1975 didn't help matters. Conditions were so deplorable that it was amazing that trains even ran. If they did run, they were dark, or completely covered by graffiti. Track conditions were horrible, too - there were hundreds of "red flag" zones where subway trains had to slow to 10mph or less. Although the R-44 and R-46 subway cars were introduced during this time, the introduction was extremely problematic. The R-44s were plagued with problems in its advanced circuitry. The R-46's untested Rockwell International trucks began cracking, forcing them to run during rush hours only. The subway cars that were supposed to be replaced by the R-46s, the R-16s, were taken out of mothballs to replace the R-46s instead - how ironic! Even labor / management relationships suffered, with strikes threatened every two years. In 1980, there was a 12-day subway strike, the first since 1966.

In other words, the state of repair was undoubtedly worse than the conditions in recent times.

 

During the same time period, numerous snowstorms buffeted the city:

• January 1971: 6.4" in a little over 3 hours
• February 1975: 7.8" in 7 hours
• January 1978: 13.6" in under 24 hours
• February 1978: 17.7" in a little over 2 days
• February 1979: 12.7" in 8 hours

That's compared to the paltry 6.3" we actually got during this storm. Of course, if by chance the storm did hit the city directly, we would've gotten over 20". But compared to some more recent snowstorms, we'd still be within the historical records:

• January 1996: 20.2" in 2 days
• February 2006: 26.9" in 2 days
• February 2010: 20.9" in 2 days
• December 2010: 20" in 2 days

Yet, we know that the subways were never shuttered for any of these storms whether it was the 1970s or 2000s, and any problems that happened were relatively isolated to outdoors portions of the subway. People who had to use the subways did, and people who didn't, stayed indoors. Did major problems happen? Yes. But we learned from them and made better preparations for future storms. The fact that trains ran smoothly overnight even when an unnecessary travel ban was in effect during this storm is a testament to that fact. What should the governor do about people who got stranded because of the ban? Maybe their cellphone died and they didn't get the short notice; by the time they were almost home, the travel ban came into effect and stranded them wherever they were. Maybe there were train or bus delays that caused them to be far enough behind schedule to get home. You really can't say that people weren't supposed to be out there anyway, because you can't possibly enumerate all the reasons why they were.

[bobtehpanda]

Going a little further back you have the entire White Plains Road line and Jerome Line, and many of the Manhattan stations on Lexington Avenue. The cosmetic work is being done but it takes time.

 

The MTA plans to fully rehab 6 stations a year. At that rate, to go through all 468 would take 78 years.