slantfan4281 Posted October 6, 2023 Share #6451 Posted October 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ale188 said: I think sometimes. But it don't matter since the J/Z got 160s and 179s. Hey, maybe once the 4 car R211s arrive we could end up with 3 types on the and 4 types on the ... maybe they'll even put some on the 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade96 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6452 Posted October 7, 2023 3 hours ago, slantfan4281 said: Hey, maybe once the 4 car R211s arrive we could end up with 3 types on the and 4 types on the ... maybe they'll even put some on the 4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ale188 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6453 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Comrade96 said: 4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars Can't.Order calls for 437 or 333. Divide both by 5. Edited October 7, 2023 by Ale188 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomRider0101 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6454 Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ale188 said: Can't.Order calls for 437 or 333. Divide both by 5. That's if they decide to order 4 car sets. That is still subject to change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade96 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6455 Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Ale188 said: Can't.Order calls for 437 or 333. Divide both by 5. the 2nd option order isnt set in stone it can be whatever number they want it to be, hence me saying we dont need any more 4 car sets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6456 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Comrade96 said: 4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars This is if the 4-car R179s go to ENY and the doesn’t go full length with 8-car trains. Otherwise, they need about 200 R211s in 4-car configurations, to truly make sure there are enough cars, since the needs 104 cars to make service (13 trains, plus maybe 2 trains for a service increase), and a 6-train spare factor = 168 cars. These cars could be with R179s or R160s but they’ll need to come from ENY. With the R179s all at ENY, there are just enough cars to cover the and it’s potential service increases, while still maintaining a spare factor of 8 trains R143/R160 cars 8101-8376 (276 cars - 24 trains to Make service and 10 trains as spares) the could have its service buffed while using just R160s 8377-8652 (34 trains - 24 to make service and a spare of 10 - some of which could help the and its spare factor the could use R179s 3050-3237 (188 cars - 23 trains) along with R160s 9943-9974 - 32 cars / 4 trains), and there is enough cars for spare factor buffs and slight service increases, since the only needs 20’trains to make service i know it looks like a lot of cars on paper but consider if we want a repeat of odd-ball fleets that are so small that you can barely run them anywhere and subway yards are hesitant on maintaining them Ex: R179 10-car trains at Pitkin, Siemens R160B cars that Jamaica used to want to try to run in mixed consists with Alstom propulsion R160s, and the current situation with 8-car R179s that might be remedied with the R211 order Edited October 7, 2023 by darkstar8983 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slantfan4281 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6457 Posted October 7, 2023 44 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said: This is if the 4-car R179s go to ENY and the doesn’t go full length with 8-car trains. Otherwise, they need about 200 R211s in 4-car configurations, to truly make sure there are enough cars, since the needs 104 cars to make service (13 trains, plus maybe 2 trains for a service increase), and a 6-train spare factor = 168 cars. These cars could be with R179s or R160s but they’ll need to come from ENY. With the R179s all at ENY, there are just enough cars to cover the and it’s potential service increases, while still maintaining a spare factor of 8 trains R143/R160 cars 8101-8376 (276 cars - 24 trains to Make service and 10 trains as spares) the could have its service buffed while using just R160s 8377-8652 (34 trains - 24 to make service and a spare of 10 - some of which could help the and its spare factor the could use R179s 3050-3237 (188 cars - 23 trains) along with R160s 9943-9974 - 32 cars / 4 trains), and there is enough cars for spare factor buffs and slight service increases, since the only needs 20’trains to make service i know it looks like a lot of cars on paper but consider if we want a repeat of odd-ball fleets that are so small that you can barely run them anywhere and subway yards are hesitant on maintaining them Ex: R179 10-car trains at Pitkin, Siemens R160B cars that Jamaica used to want to try to run in mixed consists with Alstom propulsion R160s, and the current situation with 8-car R179s that might be remedied with the R211 order So the fleets would look like this: R160s R143/R160/R211 R179 and a few R160s R160 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6458 Posted October 7, 2023 The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated. The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6459 Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, R32 3838 said: The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated. The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service. The does not have enough passenger warranty for a 10 car service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998NewFlyer Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6460 Posted October 7, 2023 14 hours ago, Comrade96 said: 4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars I agree, if the M gets extended to Rockaway park (which I doubt) then I feel like it's a need for 4car r211s 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6461 Posted October 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, FLX9304 said: The does not have enough passenger warranty for a 10 car service. it kinda does, The is always packed and making it 8 cars instead of 10 would cost more money since again the yard has to deal with a entire fleet of 8 cars that is restricted to one line instead of sharing the fleet. That's the reason it's better off being 10 cars so this way it can share it's fleet like it does now with it being 5 cars with the and . If Congestion pricing happens, That would warrant the going 10 cars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998NewFlyer Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6462 Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, R32 3838 said: The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated. Or the G can move back to Coney Island yard once its 480ft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subwaycommuter1983 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6463 Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, R32 3838 said: The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated. The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service. The issue is that there are not enough 10 car trains to make both the C and G 100% full length with 10 car trains and we can not continue to count on the r46's, especially with all the vandalism that has been happening, The r46's are in really bad shape and parts for the r46's are becoming scarce. A few r46's have been removed from service. The C can't stay as 8 car trains or mixed length. The G can't stay as 5 car trains. The G getting 8 car trains can be a temporary solution until they are enough 10 car trains to make the G full length with 10 car trains. This is why it is imperative that the MTA moves forward with option 2, which will allow both the C and G to become 100% full length with 10 car trains 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slantfan4281 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6464 Posted October 7, 2023 2 hours ago, R32 3838 said: The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated. The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service. When did the move from CI to Jamaica? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6465 Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said: The issue is that there are not enough 10 car trains to make both the C and G 100% full length with 10 car trains and we can not continue to count on the r46's, especially with all the vandalism that has been happening, The r46's are in really bad shape and parts for the r46's are becoming scarce. A few r46's have been removed from service. The C can't stay as 8 car trains or mixed length. The G can't stay as 5 car trains. The G getting 8 car trains can be a temporary solution until they are enough 10 car trains to make the G full length with 10 car trains. This is why it is imperative that the MTA moves forward with option 2, which will allow both the C and G to become 100% full length with 10 car trains option order II would fix this, You guys gotta relax with the "The r46s won't last as long" bullshit. Y'all said the same about the R32s from 2008-2022. The R46s will get replaced. Both options are enough to replace them and leave a surplus of cars. Option II is going to happen regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6466 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said: When did the move from CI to Jamaica? November 1st 2021. During the month of October, R46s and R68/As were switched between the and completed by Halloween. Edited October 7, 2023 by Calvin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6467 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, R32 3838 said: it kinda does, The is always packed and making it 8 cars instead of 10 would cost more money since again the yard has to deal with a entire fleet of 8 cars that is restricted to one line instead of sharing the fleet. That's the reason it's better off being 10 cars so this way it can share it's fleet like it does now with it being 5 cars with the and . If Congestion pricing happens, That would warrant the going 10 cars. Congestion pricing does 👎 effect the since the does not go thru Manhattan. And the isn’t always packed like sardines like it’s Manhattan counterparts are, unless you sent the to 71 or 179, which none of that is gonna happen. The only thing that the is concentrating is trying to expand the all the way to 125th St & Broadway. so just continue to do with 5 cars and be it. It’s not that deep. Edited October 7, 2023 by FLX9304 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6468 Posted October 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, FLX9304 said: Congestion pricing does 👎 effect the since the does not go thru Manhattan. And the isn’t always packed like sardines like it’s Manhattan counterparts are, unless you sent the to 71 or 179, which none of that is gonna happen. The only thing that the is concentrating is trying to expand the all the way to 125th St & Broadway. Do you even take the train daily? It gets packed and it would gain even more ridership since it connects to lines that go into Manhattan if congestion pricing goes thru. Metropolitan ave, Court sq and Hoyt are major transfer points plus schoolkids who also use the line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slantfan4281 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6469 Posted October 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, Calvin said: November 1st 2021. During the month of October, R46s and R68/As were switched between the and completed by Halloween. Will it go back to R68s when the fleet swap happens? Surprised the would move there with all the space problems at Jamaica 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6470 Posted October 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, R32 3838 said: Do you even take the train daily? It gets packed and it would gain even more ridership since it connects to lines that go into Manhattan if congestion pricing goes thru. Metropolitan ave, Court sq and Hoyt are major transfer points plus schoolkids who also use the line. Ask me another dumb question like that again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6471 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FLX9304 said: Ask me another dumb question like that again. Or what.....? A majority of us would agree that the can benefit from a fleet extension for the growing ridership within that corridor. It's growing everyday. Maybe when the R211s come in fully, probably the can get addition cars per train regardless of the fleet used. We can't rule these things out, imo because of Congestion pricing. f**k me, I hate this term much. Edited October 7, 2023 by Metro CSW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomRider0101 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6472 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, R32 3838 said: Do you even take the train daily? It gets packed and it would gain even more ridership since it connects to lines that go into Manhattan if congestion pricing goes thru. Metropolitan ave, Court sq and Hoyt are major transfer points plus schoolkids who also use the line. Since he lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the answer to that would more than likely be 'No'. 2 hours ago, FLX9304 said: Ask me another dumb question like that again. How is it a dumb question? He likely wasn't aware that you live in Philly. Also- Since you reside in Philly & not NYC, how can you say with absolute certainty that the does not need longer trains? Edited October 7, 2023 by RandomRider0101 Added details 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6473 Posted October 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said: Since he lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the answer to that would more than likely be 'No'. How is it a dumb question? He likely wasn't aware that you live in Philly. Also- Since you reside in Philly & not NYC, how can you say with absolute certainty that the does not need longer trains? Reside in Philly has nothing to do with it. I grew up in NYC for 28 years, that’s number 1. And 2 I travel in & out. So I’ve ridden every single line that there is out there. And I see how everything AND everyone is. I don’t travel often because there is nothing new going on anywhere other than DC. So my focus is to build up on models. Because all these vehicles out there are “disposable”. They don’t make them like they used to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted October 7, 2023 Share #6474 Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) LMFAO! Listen, this is a discussion about new trains, not a dramatic message board about back stories. Go on Twitter or Discord about it. Let's carry on, gentlemen. Edited October 7, 2023 by Metro CSW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJHmarc Posted October 8, 2023 Share #6475 Posted October 8, 2023 Just keep this in mind people…the MTA President has already announced there will be no changes to service after the manhattan congestion pricing starts. He went on a late morning tv new program and said there’s plenty off room in the system for more people with additional service than what’s running now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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