R211 Discussion Thread

[slantfan4281]

7 minutes ago, Ale188 said:

I think sometimes. But it don't matter since the J/Z got 160s and 179s.

Hey, maybe once the 4 car R211s arrive we could end up with 3 types on the  and 4 types on the   ... maybe they'll even put some on the  

[Comrade96]

3 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

Hey, maybe once the 4 car R211s arrive we could end up with 3 types on the  and 4 types on the   ... maybe they'll even put some on the  

4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars

[Ale188]

28 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars

Can't.Order calls for 437 or 333. Divide both by 5.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Ale188

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, Ale188 said:

Can't.Order calls for 437 or 333. Divide both by 5.

That's if they decide to order 4 car sets. That is still subject to change.

[Comrade96]

1 hour ago, Ale188 said:

Can't.Order calls for 437 or 333. Divide both by 5.

the 2nd option order isnt set in stone it can be whatever number they want it to be, hence me saying we dont need any more 4 car sets 

[darkstar8983]

9 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars

This is if the 4-car R179s go to ENY and the  doesn’t go full length with 8-car trains. Otherwise, they need about 200 R211s in 4-car configurations, to truly make sure there are enough cars, since the  needs 104 cars to make service (13 trains, plus maybe 2 trains for a service increase), and a 6-train spare factor = 168 cars. These cars could be with R179s or R160s but they’ll need to come from ENY. With the R179s all at ENY, there are just enough cars to cover the  and it’s potential service increases, while still maintaining a spare factor of 8 trains 

R143/R160 cars 8101-8376 (276 cars - 24 trains to Make service and 10 trains as spares)

 

the  could have its service buffed while using just R160s 8377-8652 (34 trains - 24 to make service and a spare of 10 - some of which could help the  and its spare factor

 

the  could use R179s 3050-3237 (188 cars - 23 trains) along with R160s 9943-9974 - 32 cars / 4 trains), and there is enough cars for spare factor buffs and slight service increases, since the  only needs 20’trains to make service 

 

i know it looks like a lot of cars on paper but consider if we want a repeat of odd-ball fleets that are so small that you can barely run them anywhere and subway yards are hesitant on maintaining them

Ex: R179 10-car trains at Pitkin, Siemens R160B cars that Jamaica used to want to try to run in mixed consists with Alstom propulsion R160s, and the current situation with 8-car R179s that might be remedied with the R211 order

Edited October 7, 2023 by darkstar8983

[slantfan4281]

44 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

This is if the 4-car R179s go to ENY and the  doesn’t go full length with 8-car trains. Otherwise, they need about 200 R211s in 4-car configurations, to truly make sure there are enough cars, since the  needs 104 cars to make service (13 trains, plus maybe 2 trains for a service increase), and a 6-train spare factor = 168 cars. These cars could be with R179s or R160s but they’ll need to come from ENY. With the R179s all at ENY, there are just enough cars to cover the  and it’s potential service increases, while still maintaining a spare factor of 8 trains 

R143/R160 cars 8101-8376 (276 cars - 24 trains to Make service and 10 trains as spares)

 

the  could have its service buffed while using just R160s 8377-8652 (34 trains - 24 to make service and a spare of 10 - some of which could help the  and its spare factor

 

the  could use R179s 3050-3237 (188 cars - 23 trains) along with R160s 9943-9974 - 32 cars / 4 trains), and there is enough cars for spare factor buffs and slight service increases, since the  only needs 20’trains to make service 

 

i know it looks like a lot of cars on paper but consider if we want a repeat of odd-ball fleets that are so small that you can barely run them anywhere and subway yards are hesitant on maintaining them

Ex: R179 10-car trains at Pitkin, Siemens R160B cars that Jamaica used to want to try to run in mixed consists with Alstom propulsion R160s, and the current situation with 8-car R179s that might be remedied with the R211 order

So the fleets would look like this:

 R160s

 R143/R160/R211

 R179 and a few R160s

 R160

[R32 3838]

The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated.

 

The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service.

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated.

 

The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service.

The  does not have enough passenger warranty for a 10 car service. 

[1998NewFlyer]

14 hours ago, Comrade96 said:

4 car R211s do not need to exist, all of them and the option orders need to be 5 car sets. BMT East will have enough cars

I agree, if the M gets extended to Rockaway park (which I doubt) then I feel like it's a need for 4car r211s

[R32 3838]

4 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

The  does not have enough passenger warranty for a 10 car service. 

it kinda does, The is always packed and making it 8 cars instead of 10 would cost more money since again the yard has to deal with a entire fleet of 8 cars that is restricted to one line instead of sharing the fleet. That's the reason it's better off being 10 cars so this way it can share it's fleet like it does now with it being 5 cars with the and .

 

If Congestion pricing happens, That would warrant the going 10 cars.

[1998NewFlyer]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated.

Or the G can move back to Coney Island yard once its 480ft

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated.

 

The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service.

The issue is that there are not enough 10 car trains to make both  the C and G 100% full length with 10 car trains and we can not continue to count on the r46's, especially with all the vandalism that has been happening, The r46's are in really bad shape and parts for the r46's are becoming scarce. A few r46's have been removed from service.

The C can't stay as 8 car trains or mixed length. The G can't stay as 5 car trains. The G getting 8 car trains can be a temporary solution until they are enough 10 car trains to make the G full length with 10 car trains.

This is why it is imperative that the MTA moves forward with option 2, which will allow both the C and G to become 100% full length with 10 car trains

[slantfan4281]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The shouldn't be 8 cars if it's still out of Jamaica Yard. It should be 10 cars for fleet flexibility. Making it 8 cars in Jamaica yard would create issues since the yard is already overcrowded with it's fleet. having a separate 8 car fleet would make it even more complicated.

 

The extra 8 car units should be used for a extension or a new eastern division line that would operate in south Brooklyn to cover for the loss of service.

When did the  move from CI to Jamaica?

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The issue is that there are not enough 10 car trains to make both  the C and G 100% full length with 10 car trains and we can not continue to count on the r46's, especially with all the vandalism that has been happening, The r46's are in really bad shape and parts for the r46's are becoming scarce. A few r46's have been removed from service.

The C can't stay as 8 car trains or mixed length. The G can't stay as 5 car trains. The G getting 8 car trains can be a temporary solution until they are enough 10 car trains to make the G full length with 10 car trains.

This is why it is imperative that the MTA moves forward with option 2, which will allow both the C and G to become 100% full length with 10 car trains

option order II would fix this, You guys gotta relax with the "The r46s won't last as long" bullshit. Y'all said the same about the R32s from 2008-2022. The R46s will get replaced. Both options are enough to replace them and leave a surplus of cars. Option II is going to happen regardless.

[Calvin]

5 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

When did the  move from CI to Jamaica?

November 1st 2021. During the month of October, R46s and R68/As were switched between the  and completed by Halloween.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Calvin

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

it kinda does, The is always packed and making it 8 cars instead of 10 would cost more money since again the yard has to deal with a entire fleet of 8 cars that is restricted to one line instead of sharing the fleet. That's the reason it's better off being 10 cars so this way it can share it's fleet like it does now with it being 5 cars with the and .

 

If Congestion pricing happens, That would warrant the going 10 cars.

Congestion pricing does 👎 effect the  since the  does not go thru Manhattan. And the  isn’t always packed like sardines like it’s Manhattan counterparts are, unless you sent the  to 71 or 179, which none of that is gonna happen. The only thing that the  is concentrating is trying to expand the  all the way to 125th St & Broadway. 
so just continue to do with 5 cars and be it. It’s not that deep. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by FLX9304

[R32 3838]

2 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Congestion pricing does 👎 effect the  since the  does not go thru Manhattan. And the  isn’t always packed like sardines like it’s Manhattan counterparts are, unless you sent the  to 71 or 179, which none of that is gonna happen. The only thing that the  is concentrating is trying to expand the  all the way to 125th St & Broadway. 

Do you even take the train daily? It gets packed and it would gain even more ridership since it connects to lines that go into Manhattan if congestion pricing goes thru. Metropolitan ave, Court sq and Hoyt are major transfer points plus schoolkids who also use the line.

 

 

 

 

[slantfan4281]

18 minutes ago, Calvin said:

November 1st 2021. During the month of October, R46s and R68/As were switched between the  and completed by Halloween.

Will it go back to R68s when the fleet swap happens? Surprised the  would move there with all the space problems at Jamaica

[FLX9304]

15 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Do you even take the train daily? It gets packed and it would gain even more ridership since it connects to lines that go into Manhattan if congestion pricing goes thru. Metropolitan ave, Court sq and Hoyt are major transfer points plus schoolkids who also use the line.

 

 

 

 

Ask me another dumb question like that again. 

[Metro CSW]

11 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Ask me another dumb question like that again. 

Or what.....? A majority of us would agree that the can benefit from a fleet extension for the growing ridership within that corridor. It's growing everyday. Maybe when the R211s come in fully, probably the can get addition cars per train regardless of the fleet used. We can't rule these things out, imo because of Congestion pricing. f**k me, I hate this term much.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Metro CSW

[RandomRider0101]

3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Do you even take the train daily? It gets packed and it would gain even more ridership since it connects to lines that go into Manhattan if congestion pricing goes thru. Metropolitan ave, Court sq and Hoyt are major transfer points plus schoolkids who also use the line.

Since he lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the answer to that would more than likely be 'No'.

 

2 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

Ask me another dumb question like that again. 

How is it a dumb question? He likely wasn't aware that you live in Philly.

Also- Since you reside in Philly & not NYC, how can you say with absolute certainty that the does not need longer trains?

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by RandomRider0101
Added details

[FLX9304]

15 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Since he lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the answer to that would more than likely be 'No'.

 

How is it a dumb question? He likely wasn't aware that you live in Philly.

Also- Since you reside in Philly & not NYC, how can you say with absolute certainty that the does not need longer trains?

 

Reside in Philly has nothing to do with it. I grew up in NYC for 28 years, that’s number 1. And 2 I travel in & out. So I’ve ridden every single line that there is out there. And I see how everything AND everyone is. I don’t travel often because there is nothing new going on anywhere other than DC. So my focus is to build up on models. Because all these vehicles out there are “disposable”. They don’t make them like they used to. 

[Metro CSW]

LMFAO! Listen, this is a discussion about new trains, not a dramatic message board about back stories. Go on Twitter or Discord about it. Let's carry on, gentlemen.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Metro CSW

[MJHmarc]

Just keep this in mind people…the MTA President has already announced there will be no changes to service after the manhattan congestion pricing starts. He went on a late morning tv new program and said there’s plenty off room in the system for more people with additional service than what’s running now.