Removing two B36 bus stops was the wrong decision.

[BrooklynBus]

Well as it stands, the main people using the buses these days are the ones that have difficultly walking to the bus stops, and they are not the majority of the population nor will they be the future riders of buses.  If these people are going to represent the majority of the ridership on buses, well then that's the problem (a big problem in fact), and ridership will continue to plummet.  I was looking at all of the local buses on 5th Avenue this morning as I was making my way to my office on the express bus and just about 90% of the people were elderly or disabled and the buses were not crowded either.  A few able bodied younger females... Elderly people don't have places to go in a hurry so of course they'll take the buses and women who are too afraid of the subway will in some cases, but even they get fed up.  The real issue here is how can buses be made attractive again and how can on-time performance improve?  I can count the buses that I've been on that have actually arrived on time AND made it to my destination on time.  I mean there is no accountability any more.  The subways aren't much better, but they are still slightly faster than the bus.

As for improving on time performance I already mentioned my idea of a state law requiring non emergency vehicles giving the right of way to buses pulling out of bus stops. Another bug problem is delivery trucks double parking because of very few loading areas. Just look at Brighton Beach Avenue. Every afternoon you will see a dozen double parked trucks and the worst thing is that they stay there for three hours unloading their entire truck blocking a lane of traffic and it is perfectly legal. The city doesn't want to remove meters to provide loading areas because they will lose revenue. They could charge the trucks to park in a loading area like in Manhattan, but I bet there woud be huge opposition to that. The real problem is that moving traffic is not a priority for DOT. They want traffic to move even slower because they claim that would be safer for pedestrians.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As for improving on time performance I already mentioned my idea of a state law requiring non emergency vehicles giving the right of way to buses pulling out of bus stops. Another bug problem is delivery trucks double parking because of very few loading areas. Just look at Brighton Beach Avenue. Every afternoon you will see a dozen double parked trucks and the worst thing is that they stay there for three hours unloading their entire truck blocking a lane of traffic and it is perfectly legal. The city doesn't want to remove meters to provide loading areas because they will lose revenue. They could charge the trucks to park in a loading area like in Manhattan, but I bet there woud be huge opposition to that. The real problem is that moving traffic is not a priority for DOT. They want traffic to move even slower because they claim that would be safer for pedestrians.

Yes double parking is a HUGE problem and it needs to be addressed.

[B35 via Church]

I'm down there at least once a month to run errands (I grew up on the Sheepshead Bay/Manhattan Beach border), and the neighborhood is trying to take on an air on affluence and has been for years. I often times get on the BM3 right where the old IS 43 (now Bay Academy) is that I used to attend.  From there going east on Emmons there's been this "boom" of "luxury buildings" (that sit vacant because they are overpriced and often times poorly constructed) that it isn't even funny.  The folks just across the bay in Manhattan Beach clog up Emmons Avenue and Sheepshead Bay Rd with their expensive European cars (the problem has essentially just been exacerbated, as the Russians with money buy up properties and continue to spread out from Brighton Beach).  The people actually using any of the local buses seem to be few and far in between in the immediate area, which seems to consist of the old school folks that have stayed, but more and more people seem to be shunning public transit down there and moreso trying to show off in their cars (that Staten Island mentality that I couldn't stand of "I can't be caught dead using any form of public transit" (including express buses)).  I never had that feeling growing up down there (you always had flashy people, but the issue seems to be more exacerbated now) and that new complex that is replacing the old El Greco's is an example.

 

What's worse is the transportation down there overall stinks, even with the return of the B4.  Takes much longer with the now than it used to along with the BM3.  The B49 as we know is atrocious and so on, so if you don't have a car down there I'd say good luck getting around.  I couldn't fathom ever moving back there just based on that alone.

So they turned those hotels into luxury buildings (along Emmons) huh? News to me.... In either case, I didn't expect there to be much of any vacancies down there anyway.... Quite honestly, I still find it comical that whoever responsible were so quick to prop up all those (former, apparently) hotels - to have it all blow up in their faces when neither Barclays, or a casino, was propped up in Coney Island some years back... I still can't fathom who in the world would make their way from CI to Sheepshead (out of towners staying in hotels, I mean) like that anyway; aint exactly a hop, skip, and a jump away....

 

The ostentation that you're describing, sounds a LOT like what's going on along certain areas along the Babylon line.... Funny how they're trying to urbanize suburbia (in certain spots) to try to keep suburbanites in suburbia, yet suburbanites are fleeing suburbia to urban areas with suburban attitudes.....

 

With what you're describing, I can't even call that sad.... To me, it's embarrassing that that's happening to Sheepshead....

 

 

But both of those are transfer points plus Kings Highway is difficult to cross so in some ways, that one makes sense. That extra block walk could easily cost a missing connection which isn't fun when you have to wait 20 minutes for a bus.

Alright now, what is this.....

 

See here... I saw Checkmate's post regarding two bus stops on a block, added to it, and that was it.... Don't know what led up to him making that post (as I'm not following you all's back & forth), and that reply of mine wasn't in defense of anything (which is clearly how you took it, with this "But..." bit)..... So there was no need for you to pose a counterargument to an argument that was never made by me to begin with.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So they turned those hotels into luxury buildings (along Emmons) huh? News to me.... In either case, I didn't expect there to be much of any vacancies down there anyway.... Quite honestly, I still find it comical that whoever responsible were so quick to prop up all those (former, apparently) hotels - to have it all blow up in their faces when neither Barclays, or a casino, was propped up in Coney Island some years back... I still can't fathom who in the world would make their way from CI to Sheepshead (out of towners staying in hotels, I mean) like that anyway; aint exactly a hop, skip, and a jump away....

 

The ostentation that you're describing, sounds a LOT like what's going on along certain areas along the Babylon line.... Funny how they're trying to urbanize suburbia (in certain spots) to try to keep suburbanites in suburbia, yet suburbanites are fleeing suburbia to urban areas with suburban attitudes.....

 

With what you're describing, I can't even call that sad.... To me, it's embarrassing that that's happening to Sheepshead...

I read an article about how Sheepshead Bay is a waterfront community that should take advantage of being so close to water. Basically developers and real estate whores trying to cash in...

 

http://www.amny.com/real-estate/city-living/brooklyn/sheepshead-bay-live-the-quiet-life-in-south-brooklyn-1.11582613

[B35 via Church]

I read an article about how Sheepshead Bay is a waterfront community that should take advantage of being so close to water. Basically developers and real estate whores trying to cash in...

 

http://www.amny.com/real-estate/city-living/brooklyn/sheepshead-bay-live-the-quiet-life-in-south-brooklyn-1.11582613

Funny... So is Gerritsen Beach.... Better yet, the real estate crooks can come up with a corny acronym for the area... You know, something like PluGeSh (plumb beach, gerritsen beach, sheepshead).... Market it to Arab$ - Cha Ching!!

 

Seriously, even if Sheepshead is close to water, it'll never be a DUMBO or Cobble Hill... It's too far a commute to "the city".....

 

Nothing south of Lefferts Gardens will be an "up & coming" area.... Real estate agents/brokers need to stop it.

[checkmatechamp13]

But both of those are transfer points plus Kings Highway is difficult to cross so in some ways, that one makes sense. That extra block walk could easily cost a missing connection which isn't fun when you have to wait 20 minutes for a bus.

 

And you know what else can cause a missing connection? Having to stop at the less popular stop (Frederick Douglas), and then stop again at St. Nicholas (which is literally a few car lengths in front of the stop) where the subway and M3 are.

 

For Kings Highway, it still leaves you on the same side of Kings Highway as the Avenue H stop does. I would agree with you if the stop were located on the side of the street where the gas station is on. 

[BrooklynBus]

And you know what else can cause a missing connection? Having to stop at the less popular stop (Frederick Douglas), and then stop again at St. Nicholas (which is literally a few car lengths in front of the stop) where the subway and M3 are.

 

For Kings Highway, it still leaves you on the same side of Kings Highway as the Avenue H stop does. I would agree with you if the stop were located on the side of the street where the gas station is on.

 

I didn't look at the actual location of the stops when I responded. Yes, crossing Kings Highway doesn't apply. But you have to ask yourself how often does a B46 stop at Kings Highway? If it is only for B7 transferees, and has little daily usage, it makes sense to keep it since it Wally doesn't add to B46 running time anyway and can benefit a few people. If on the other hand, it gets significant usage but not heavy usage, then it should be eliminated. I can't imagine it getting heavy usage.

[BrooklynBus]

Funny... So is Gerritsen Beach.... Better yet, the real estate crooks can come up with a corny acronym for the area... You know, something like PluGeSh (plumb beach, gerritsen beach, sheepshead).... Market it to Arab$ - Cha Ching!!

 

Seriously, even if Sheepshead is close to water, it'll never be a DUMBO or Cobble Hill... It's too far a commute to "the city".....

 

Nothing south of Lefferts Gardens will be an "up & coming" area.... Real estate agents/brokers need to stop it.

Regarding the bus stop, I was just having a discussion, not defending anything and I didn't see your comment as defending anything either.

 

When they first erected those luxury hotels in Manhattan Beach, the developers wanted to give the impression they were a stone's throw from Manhattan in order to attract those rich Manhattanites, so they named it Manhattan Beach. They lied even then.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Funny... So is Gerritsen Beach.... Better yet, the real estate crooks can come up with a corny acronym for the area... You know, something like PluGeSh (plumb beach, gerritsen beach, sheepshead).... Market it to Arab$ - Cha Ching!!

 

Seriously, even if Sheepshead is close to water, it'll never be a DUMBO or Cobble Hill... It's too far a commute to "the city".....

 

Nothing south of Lefferts Gardens will be an "up & coming" area.... Real estate agents/brokers need to stop it.

Never say never... You know Bay Ridge has been ranked as the #1 neighborhood in Brooklyn for a few years now and it's in South Brooklyn...  Rents and prices to purchase have gone up considerably over there despite the slow train.  I recommended the area to my old boss years ago when I was considering moving back to South Brooklyn and prices were creeping up then, though most of Shore Rd has always been pricey.  He has moved down there and started a family (previously lived in Brooklyn Heights and wanted to purchase and get more space for his buck) and takes the X27/X37 in. That's why I don't see the situation getting better because the people moving in may not even work in the city and may just drive to work somewhere in Brooklyn given the transformation overall of the borough, leading to more congestion and worse transportation, as they won't have a need to be outspoken.  They won't care... They'll just jump in the car.  That's what I see happening in Sheepshead Bay given the types moving in... If they can't afford Manhattan Beach, well Sheepshead Bay is right across the bay.  Apparently folks that can't afford areas like Park Slope are flocking to South Brooklyn, which in turn has been driving up prices.   

 

I have to say though as a native Brooklynite, most neighborhoods in Brooklyn are being overhyped given the amenities and limited transportation.  The B36 and transportation overall in Sheepshead Bay is likely doomed given the demographic transformations that are likely to continue.

[bobtehpanda]

I didn't look at the actual location of the stops when I responded. Yes, crossing Kings Highway doesn't apply. But you have to ask yourself how often does a B46 stop at Kings Highway? If it is only for B7 transferees, and has little daily usage, it makes sense to keep it since it Wally doesn't add to B46 running time anyway and can benefit a few people. If on the other hand, it gets significant usage but not heavy usage, then it should be eliminated. I can't imagine it getting heavy usage.

 

So we keep lightly used stops, and we keep heavily used stops? At that point we might as well be Oprah handing out bus stops to every block.

 

If a stop is lightly used and there is another stop less than two minutes walking distance away, just consolidate the stops. It takes time for a bus to pull in and pull out even if it does have clear right-of-way, and two minutes is not going to kill the few people using the stop.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So we keep lightly used stops, and we keep heavily used stops? At that point we might as well be Oprah handing out bus stops to every block.

 

If a stop is lightly used and there is another stop less than two minutes walking distance away, just consolidate the stops. It takes time for a bus to pull in and pull out even if it does have clear right-of-way, and two minutes is not going to kill the few people using the stop.

I agree... The other thing is B/Os get tired of being hemmed in by cars and other vehicles at every stop, so then they don't want to pull in, which slows down the boarding process even more as people have to walk into the street to get on.

[Interested Rider]

The B/36, B/4 and B/49 make three  stops from East 15th Street to Ocean Avenue and at least one stop  should be targeted for elimination as there are stops located at East 18th Street and East 19th Street toward Avenue U and Ocean Avenue (Avenue Z B/49). By combining the stops and making one at East 19th Street (toward Coney Island (B/36) and at East 18th Street by the school playground (toward Ocean Avenue) would do a lot to improve traffic flow in the area. Both of the current stops are filled with double parkers and if the bus driver goes to the curb, he is blocked in by the traffic. Another solution is to make the south side lane on Avenue Z Bus only for certain hours every day from the subway to Ocean Avenue. which will definitely improve bus time in the area.  

[BrooklynBus]

So we keep lightly used stops, and we keep heavily used stops? At that point we might as well be Oprah handing out bus stops to every block.

 

If a stop is lightly used and there is another stop less than two minutes walking distance away, just consolidate the stops. It takes time for a bus to pull in and pull out even if it does have clear right-of-way, and two minutes is not going to kill the few people using the stop.

It only takes time to pull in and pull out if the bus stops there in the first place. If only one out of six or ten buses even stop because the stop is lightly used, the tine saved is really very minimal anyway. When there were two stops close together in my neighborhood, the buses rarely had to stop at both stops anyway. So no time was saved or at most five or ten seconds, when both stops existed. But people were inconvenienced by having to walk further and possibly miss the bus.

[BrooklynBus]

The B/36, B/4 and B/49 make three  stops from East 15th Street to Ocean Avenue and at least one stop  should be targeted for elimination as there are stops located at East 18th Street and East 19th Street toward Avenue U and Ocean Avenue (Avenue Z B/49). By combining the stops and making one at East 19th Street (toward Coney Island (B/36) and at East 18th Street by the school playground (toward Ocean Avenue) would do a lot to improve traffic flow in the area. Both of the current stops are filled with double parkers and if the bus driver goes to the curb, he is blocked in by the traffic. Another solution is to make the south side lane on Avenue Z Bus only for certain hours every day from the subway to Ocean Avenue. which will definitely improve bus time in the area.

 

You can't make a bus lane when there is only one traffic lane unless you want to ban parking which may be justified during certain hours if traffic really is that bad. I already stated the B49 need not stop at East 19 Street, but eliminating the B4 and 36 also may make the distance to the next stop excessive. Also moving the stop to the school playground area would eliminate parking spaces for official school parking and you know someone will complain.

[bobtehpanda]

It only takes time to pull in and pull out if the bus stops there in the first place. If only one out of six or ten buses even stop because the stop is lightly used, the tine saved is really very minimal anyway. When there were two stops close together in my neighborhood, the buses rarely had to stop at both stops anyway. So no time was saved or at most five or ten seconds, when both stops existed. But people were inconvenienced by having to walk further and possibly miss the bus.

 

One stop may be five or ten seconds, but that adds up between all the stops, impacting reliability and travel time. Focusing on how people are slightly inconvenienced by walking a little bit more is missing the forest for the trees.

[Interested Rider]

The school gains parking as the stop at East 19th Street will be eliminated and they can park there just steps from the school. The stop in front of the Post Office Loading dock blocks the post office trucks from access and are they complaining as riders have to go out into the street as there is double parking there as well. The other stop which is on the side of St,Mark's Church has a lot of drivers who park in the bus stop as well and those spots will now be available for parking. By moving the stop to East 19th Street in the other direction (eliminating the Ocean Avenue (B/36 & B/4) and the Avenue Z and Ocean Avenue (/B/49) stops, it makes it easier for the buses to turn into Avenue Z from Ocean Avenue for both the B/4 & B/49 routes and places the stop at a place which would meet the needs of the riders going to the post office, church and transferring to either the B/4, 36 or B/49.

Something has to be done about the five block stretch from East 15th Street to Ocean Avenue as that is where all three routes lose time and by making a bus only lane will improve service as the bus stays in the lane (the B/49 will switch lanes after the East 18th Street stop to make the turn into Ocean Avenue) and does not have to push its way into traffic as it has to do now.

[B35 via Church]

Never say never... You know Bay Ridge has been ranked as the #1 neighborhood in Brooklyn for a few years now and it's in South Brooklyn...  Rents and prices to purchase have gone up considerably over there despite the slow train.  I recommended the area to my old boss years ago when I was considering moving back to South Brooklyn and prices were creeping up then, though most of Shore Rd has always been pricey.  He has moved down there and started a family (previously lived in Brooklyn Heights and wanted to purchase and get more space for his buck) and takes the X27/X37 in. That's why I don't see the situation getting better because the people moving in may not even work in the city and may just drive to work somewhere in Brooklyn given the transformation overall of the borough, leading to more congestion and worse transportation, as they won't have a need to be outspoken.  They won't care... They'll just jump in the car.  That's what I see happening in Sheepshead Bay given the types moving in... If they can't afford Manhattan Beach, well Sheepshead Bay is right across the bay.  Apparently folks that can't afford areas like Park Slope are flocking to South Brooklyn, which in turn has been driving up prices.   

 

I have to say though as a native Brooklynite, most neighborhoods in Brooklyn are being overhyped given the amenities and limited transportation.  The B36 and transportation overall in Sheepshead Bay is likely doomed given the demographic transformations that are likely to continue.

You sound like someone's granpa w/ that never say never.... I don't believe that something will happen because there's a possibility that it could (that's why I never cared for when people make that statement).....

 

Anyway, A neighborhood that is dubbed "up & coming" (a term I despise for a couple reasons) & a neighborhood that is (or has) underwent a stark transformation aren't exactly the same thing... Look at what happened to Dyker Heights & Bensonhurst for example.... Asians took over those areas after those old school Italians bounced for SI, NJ, and god knows where else.... You know this..... Nobody would say those 2 aforementioned areas are up & coming.....

 

I get your point[s}, but at the same time, you can't really compare the transformations (or w/e you want to call it) that's happened in those 2 neighborhoods (you can even throw Sheepshead in that mix to an extent also), and what's happened in places like Williamsburg, Bushwick, Dumbo, etc.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You sound like someone's granpa w/ that never say never.... I don't believe that something will happen because there's a possibility that it could (that's why I never cared for when people make that statement).....

 

Anyway, A neighborhood that is dubbed "up & coming" (a term I despise for a couple reasons) & a neighborhood that is (or has) underwent a stark transformation aren't exactly the same thing... Look at what happened to Dyker Heights & Bensonhurst for example.... Asians took over those areas after those old school Italians bounced for SI, NJ, and god knows where else.... You know this..... Nobody would say those 2 aforementioned areas are up & coming.....

 

I get your point[s}, but at the same time, you can't really compare the transformations (or w/e you want to call it) that's happened in those 2 neighborhoods (you can even throw Sheepshead in that mix to an extent also), and what's happened in places like Williamsburg, Bushwick, Dumbo, etc.....

lol... Bensonhurst the Asians took over indeed because Italian-Americans wanted more space and outgrew the neighborhood... They haven't taken over Dyker Heights the same way (still plenty of Italian-Americans left from 13th Avenue on) because it has always been an upper middle class area (it was designed as such from the start), mainly consisting of housing that is expensive (think Mill Basin, Bergen Beach and parts of Shore Rd in Bay Ridge).  Bensonhurst was just a middle class area with more a mixed housing stock, but you're right... Very different transformations... It isn't gentrification in South Brooklyn, but a change in the demographics from an ethnicity stand point.

[CenSin]

 

Source: http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/intro_to_brt_phase2.pdf

 

That graph on page 8 is telling. We can reduce all that stopping (which delays the bus) by reducing the number of bus stops. It’s quite apparent to people who drive or ride the bus, but a graph is needed to drive the point home.

 

 

But people were inconvenienced by having to walk further and possibly miss the bus.

The inconvenience of walking further happens once: waiting for the bus. Once you get on the bus, the inconvenience of making stops every 2 blocks piles up. It’s not too bad during light traffic and off-peak times; I rode the B36 during 10:40 PM and it got me home pretty fast from the far east end of Sheepshead Bay to Coney Island. During the day, the route sucks.

 

Two days ago, I was able to chase a B68 down by foot 2 blocks away since I just missed it. Not only did I catch it, but I got off a stop early and ran to the next intersection (about 2 street blocks away along a stretch of Neptune Avenue where there were no intervening traffic signals), handily beating the bus. Good bus service shouldn’t be high-capacity wheelchairs that compete with human speeds.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Something else that annoys me to no end is how lazy some bus riders are.  Yes bus service is deteriorating, but then they don't help matters by not knowing what bus they need or stop, etc., asking a gazillion damn questions to the driver and holding everyone up.  With BusTime here, there really isn't an excuse.  You can track your bus, walk to the stop and get on.  I say eliminate more stops to speed up service and make more buses run like SBS.  I don't want more SBS routes per se, but I want buses to pull into the damn stop, pick up and keep going.  Too many people holding buses at stops and it needs to stop.  In their defense however, buses bunch so horribly that if you don't run to get one you'll be waiting for quite a while.  The other night I was coming from the Upper West Side and tracking buses along 3rd Avenue and as soon as I reached 3rd, a slew of M101, M102 and M103 buses come all at once and I could see from BusTime that I would be waiting for another one a good 15-20 minutes.  Then there are the drivers that will do everything possible not to pick up passengers.  They won't pull into the stop, will hide behind other buses and try to pretend that no one wants their bus.  Ridiculous.  We need more dispatchers and plain clothes workers out in the field doing write-ups and observing the nonsense that goes on along bus routes across the city.  

[CenSin]

In their defense however, buses bunch so horribly that if you don't run to get one you'll be waiting for quite a while.  The other night I was coming from the Upper West Side and tracking buses along 3rd Avenue and as soon as I reached 3rd, a slew of M101, M102 and M103 buses come all at once and I could see from BusTime that I would be waiting for another one a good 15-20 minutes.

A side-effect of having too many stops is that you rely heavily on probability. The uncertain nature of frequent bus stops makes it impossible to run buses on-time and causes bunching. We’ll get a lot less bunching just by herding passengers to fewer stops.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A side-effect of having too many stops is that you rely heavily on probability. The uncertain nature of frequent bus stops makes it impossible to run buses on-time and causes bunching. We’ll get a lot less bunching just by herding passengers to fewer stops.

Agreed... It's amazing how efficient lines like the M86 have become since they went SBS. I'm on the Upper West Side a lot now and use it to get to the Upper East Side.  Doors open, people get off, people get on and the bus takes off.  It seems like some SBS people are better educated and we need that for the entire system.  The more you pamper people and give them more stops, the more they'll expect door-to-door service.

[BrooklynBus]

 

Source: http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/intro_to_brt_phase2.pdf

 

That graph on page 8 is telling. We can reduce all that stopping (which delays the bus) by reducing the number of bus stops. It’s quite apparent to people who drive or ride the bus, but a graph is needed to drive the point home.

 

 

 

The inconvenience of walking further happens once: waiting for the bus. Once you get on the bus, the inconvenience of making stops every 2 blocks piles up. It’s not too bad during light traffic and off-peak times; I rode the B36 during 10:40 PM and it got me home

pretty fast from the far east end of Sheepshead Bay to Coney Island. During the day, the route sucks.

 

Two days ago, I was able to chase a B68 down by foot 2 blocks away since I just missed it. Not only did I catch it, but I got off a stop early and ran to the next intersection (about 2 street blocks away along a stretch of Neptune Avenue where there were no intervening traffic signals), handily beating the bus. Good bus service shouldn’t be high-capacity wheelchairs that compete with human speeds.

Sorry, but I will not believe a document designed to sell BRT. It states BRT is more reliable. Two things wrong with that statement. First, we do not have BRT, and second all the SBS bus routes I have seen bunch just as much as other routes and are not any more reliable. Also, bus signal priority which they keep speaking of is not a reality at most at most SBS intersection. Another misstatement is that bus ridership is leveling off. No, it is declining, not leveling off.

 

Okay now for the bus stops. 22 percent of the time is spent at bus stops. That is misleading first of all because some of that time is waiting for the signal to change. Half the buses stop every avenue block. So are you proposing they skip every other avenue block? If not and we just went from two to three block spacing all over, that 22 percent would only decline a few percentage points. Don't think for a minute it would be cut in half or even nearly that.

 

The other point you speak of regarding chasing buses and getting off early is applicable to like half the riders. Should the bus routes only accommodate them and screw everyone else? Apparently you think so.

 

I am not for keeping all the bus stops we have. Yes so E can be safely eliminated. But it has to be done on a case by case basis as I stated.

Agreed... It's amazing how efficient lines like the M86 have become since they went SBS. I'm on the Upper West Side a lot now and use it to get to the Upper East Side.  Doors open, people get off, people get on and the bus takes off.  It seems like some SBS people are better educated and we need that for the entire system.  The more you pamper people and give them more stops, the more they'll expect door-to-door service.

And exactly how more efficient has the M86 become? Where are the numbers? The ones I've heard is that only two minutes are safes each way.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And exactly how more efficient has the M86 become? Where are the numbers? The ones I've heard is that only two minutes are safes each way.

I don't care about the numbers. I can only state my experiences when I use the bus.  The savings may be marginal but the ride has been quick and faster in terms of boarding and people getting off.  It all aids in the perception of the bus moving quickly. I think the question is why do people move quicker to get off/on the SBS lines while they take FOREVER to get off/on the local buses?  It goes back to perception and maybe educating riders to a certain degree.  I also notice that I don't see too many old folks riding it.  Here's an interesting thing to note... I have no problem taking the M86SBS, but often times REFUSE to take the M101, M102 or M103 to continue the commute?  Why? They are MUCH slower (even the so called "limited" M101 bus).  Constantly sitting at the stops, people running to get on, etc., etc.... Ad nauseum.  The subway approach is to close the damn doors at a certain point and keep the service running and let those people get the next train.  We need that for buses, but the problem is the gaps in service are too far.  Additionally, why do we have to make every line SBS to get buses moving faster and to change peoples' perception about bus service in general?  

[BrooklynBus]

So you are saying that perception that buses are moving faster is more important than if they actually are moving faster?