MTA/Academy Pool On The SIM23 & SIM24

[JAzumah]

16 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The SIM4X/8X in their current forms are useless (and I say that as a user of both) 

Useless is a strong word. Let's say it is a luxury. You give passengers a faster trip from a high demand point. I support that. NJT would support that as well. I just think that coverage trumps a "luxury".
 

17 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

It doesn't make sense for the short-turn to run super-express and the full-length version to run local (well have a longer pickup portion and not skip any express bus stops).

It does because the MTA can shorten travel times by concentrating seats in a high demand area. You run the seats directly to where you need the seats. It also allows for a second trip during a time window that is still relevant to commuters. In addition, if you are deadheading a bus back via New Jersey, there isn't much of a difference in deadhead time between the "longer" route and the "shorter" route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

27 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

That is where you are going to have to change your mindset.

We provide transportation to transport PEOPLE. The thing is about those pesky customers is that they move around and their needs change. Since their needs are not static, the transportation system should not be static. The reallocation of resources IS a service cut in some places and a service increase in others. If we are going to ask the MTA to try new things, then we have to be able to accept the fact that some of those things may not work out or may need to be scaled back. The express bus system is running 90+% of normal capacity at 30-35% of its normal ridership. Neither you nor Cait Sith are going to be able to tell me that the resources don't exist to provide new services. That is not true. It's not about the fact that you are lying. It is about the fact that just because a bus is somewhere doing something does not mean it is the most useful role for that bus.

Everyone wants to talk about waste until they perceive a benefit from that waste. The MTA was designed to provide transportation. It is not designed to make money. That does not mean that everything new has to require new resources. Public agencies try not to touch anything because they get hell from those who want to change things and those who don't want anything changed. 

That isn't an option now, so we had all better be ready to send buses where they are needed most. That does not mean the SI express bus system goes away. In other boroughs, it may actually mean entire routes going away. We have to do what works or the system risks becoming irrelevant. My concern is that the SIM23 and SIM24 becomes irrelevant as it is being run now and it took years and years to get those routes out there. Intergovernmental tribalism is not a good excuse to have such a bad outcome.

Yeah and rightfully so. You don't use these buses (as in depend on them) and you wouldn't be the one suffering on a packed bus and having to stand. Bus ridership continues to increase back to their previous pandemic levels, and that is especially true on Staten Island. I don't support any cuts to the 4X or 8X, both of which provide faster commutes for riders that already have long commutes. You're in the business of running service and quite frankly, don't give a damn about the riders, esp. given your track record with the lines you've tried running that have left riders literally stranded.  I'm a rider and understand how many thousands of people depend on the service. That's the difference. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

29 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

He said Atlantic Express had a long term contract back when they ran the X23/24, but that is not the case with Academy.

The SIM4X/8X in their current forms are useless (and I say that as a user of both) You could also save buses by swapping the terminals with the standard SIM4/8 during the hours of super-express operation. It doesn't make sense for the short-turn to run super-express and the full-length version to run local (well have a longer pickup portion and not skip any express bus stops).

I guess that's why I'm confused because I thought we were talking about NOW, not the past...

If the SIM4X and 8X were that useless they should've stopped running them a while ago, but someone must be using them, otherwise they would've canned them by now. Even so, ok, restructure them, but getting rid of the service entirely, absolutely not.

[JAzumah]

It's funny that every time I bring up efficiency in the express bus system, you want to bring up the problems I have had in the past. Quote me on the following statement:

You don't get experience by running your mouth, especially on the internet.

I remember when a certain person (who posts occasionally) showed me a schedule of the X31 when they had just begun sending buses through NJ. It was four buses in each direction if I remember correctly. This idea that I don't know what Staten Islanders think is your imagination. 

My experiences consist of good and bad and both were extremely important to my understanding of business, the MTA, transportation, and life in general. I am not ashamed of them. I also understand that my home bus route (B46) carries more passengers on both service patterns in a day than the entire Staten Island express bus system does in a day. That doesn't mean that the SI express bus system isn't important. It does mean that just as we nip and tuck service patterns by short turning buses, it is not going to be a crisis to reallocate buses where service is most needed on SI...or anywhere else.

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, JAzumah said:

It does because the MTA can shorten travel times by concentrating seats in a high demand area. You run the seats directly to where you need the seats. It also allows for a second trip during a time window that is still relevant to commuters. In addition, if you are deadheading a bus back via New Jersey, there isn't much of a difference in deadhead time between the "longer" route and the "shorter" route.

Right, and my proposal does the same thing to a greater degree. At the height of rush hour, every single trip would have its runtime shortened (whether it's the full-length "super express" ones bypassing the middle portion, or the "local" ones getting short-turned). With the current pattern, that only applies to a handful of supplemental trips. 

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I guess that's why I'm confused because I thought we were talking about NOW, not the past...

He is comparing the old contract to the new contract. He's saying the old one was designed for Atlantic Express to run it long-term, while the new one is basically designed for the MTA to be able to take over at any time.

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If the SIM4X and 8X were that useless they should've stopped running them a while ago

You remember those rumors that would periodically pop up regarding the SIM4X being proposed for elimination? There was definitely an element of truth to those. You can message me for more details if you want.

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Even so, ok, restructure them, but getting rid of the service entirely, absolutely not.

That is literally exactly what I said to my contact.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

24 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Right, and my proposal does the same thing to a greater degree. At the height of rush hour, every single trip would have its runtime shortened (whether it's the full-length "super express" ones bypassing the middle portion, or the "local" ones getting short-turned). With the current pattern, that only applies to a handful of supplemental trips. 

He is comparing the old contract to the new contract. He's saying the old one was designed for Atlantic Express to run it long-term, while the new one is basically designed for the MTA to be able to take over at any time.

You remember those rumors that would periodically pop up regarding the SIM4X being proposed for elimination? There was definitely an element of truth to those. You can message me for more details if you want.

That is literally exactly what I said to my contact.

With all of the stuff that goes on, I honestly don't remember that. All I hear people complaining about is how there's so much SIM4 and SIM8 service CONSTANTLY. lol Someone was complaining to me today about in private how five SIM8s passed before their bus came. They waited about 40 minutes for a bus. I will say that there appears to be a pecking order with some lines in that they seem to get more priority. I was under the impression that both of those Super Express lines did well, but yes I'll shoot you a message.

[R10 2952]

Maybe they should just get those guys that run the B110 to take over 🤔

https://i.imgur.com/uKYADdx.mp4

Edited February 26, 2021 by R10 2952

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Maybe they should just get those guys that run the B110 to take over 🤔

https://i.imgur.com/uKYADdx.mp4

With the way how they're drivers drive? Absolutely not.

One took a turn so bad he almost took off my mirror and my bumper. 

[aemoreira81]

On 2/25/2021 at 5:08 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

He said Atlantic Express had a long term contract back when they ran the X23/24, but that is not the case with Academy.

The SIM4X/8X in their current forms are useless (and I say that as a user of both) You could also save buses by swapping the terminals with the standard SIM4/8 during the hours of super-express operation. It doesn't make sense for the short-turn to run super-express and the full-length version to run local (well have a longer pickup portion and not skip any express bus stops).

I am surprised that this hasn't already been done.  Also, realign buses with actual ridership these days.

[Lawrence St]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:31 PM, JAzumah said:

It's funny that every time I bring up efficiency in the express bus system, you want to bring up the problems I have had in the past. Quote me on the following statement:

You don't get experience by running your mouth, especially on the internet.

I remember when a certain person (who posts occasionally) showed me a schedule of the X31 when they had just begun sending buses through NJ. It was four buses in each direction if I remember correctly. This idea that I don't know what Staten Islanders think is your imagination. 

My experiences consist of good and bad and both were extremely important to my understanding of business, the MTA, transportation, and life in general. I am not ashamed of them. I also understand that my home bus route (B46) carries more passengers on both service patterns in a day than the entire Staten Island express bus system does in a day. That doesn't mean that the SI express bus system isn't important. It does mean that just as we nip and tuck service patterns by short turning buses, it is not going to be a crisis to reallocate buses where service is most needed on SI...or anywhere else.

Wait, don't you run that Great Adventure bus or something? For all the talking you do, why don't you run your own routes instead of contracting them out to Greyhound or whoever you use. The express bus system is efficient, but it will always be plagued with problems.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

28 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Wait, don't you run that Great Adventure bus or something? For all the talking you do, why don't you run your own routes instead of contracting them out to Greyhound or whoever you use. The express bus system is efficient, but it will always be plagued with problems.

Listen, he has been known to run poor express bus service and has left passengers stranded, especially on Staten Island. One of the few times I'm glad the  took over. The X30 now the SIM30 was one route I believe the  took over from him, as he left riders high and dry often, with buses breaking down on the Turnpike. Smh.

[Lawrence St]

48 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Listen, he has been known to run poor express bus service and has left passengers stranded, especially on Staten Island. One of the few times I'm glad the  took over. The X30 now the SIM30 was one route I believe the  took over from him, as he left riders high and dry often, with buses breaking down on the Turnpike. Smh.

X30? Was never aware it was ran by someone else, but that's a big no no. You can't leave riders high and dry like that...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

X30? Was never aware it was ran by someone else, but that's a big no no. You can't leave riders high and dry like that...

Yes, it was a private line run by him. I believe the X30 started around 2007 or so as a line under the  .

Edited May 30, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, it was a private line run by him. I believe the X30 started around 2007 or so as a line under the  .

I've also seen his ads for his GA bus service...it's cringy to say the least lol. But with the amount of talking he does, he should prove he can run a service like others are doing.

But I will give him the benefit of the doubt, since Academy does a far worse job. I'm still shocked how EDC kept giving them the contract with the amount of complaints passengers give

[Via Garibaldi 8]

15 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I've also seen his ads for his GA bus service...it's cringy to say the least lol. But with the amount of talking he does, he should prove he can run a service like others are doing.

But I will give him the benefit of the doubt, since Academy does a far worse job. I'm still shocked how EDC kept giving them the contract with the amount of complaints passengers give

He's run quite a few express bus lines. Seems like nothing comes of them to be honest. He ran van service for the X90 for a while too after that line stopped, then was shut down. I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

He's run quite a few express bus lines. Seems like nothing comes of them to be honest. He ran van service for the X90 for a while too after that line stopped, then was shut down. I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Doing some research, "TransportAzumah" actually took over the 122 and 144 routes from Coach USA which ran between Eltingville & Hoboken. Was never aware there was a direct SI to NJ route (other then the s89). There's no record on what happened to these lines after the takeover though.

[JAzumah]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:57 PM, Lawrence St said:

Wait, don't you run that Great Adventure bus or something? For all the talking you do, why don't you run your own routes instead of contracting them out to Greyhound or whoever you use.

Do I have a platform at the Port Authority? Not yet (I did apply). 

So, I contracted with someone who does because I wanted to run Great Adventure from a place where everyone is used to going to get those buses.

I have one bus on the road and two more going into service shortly. In an environment with stupidly high insurance, it is much smarter to minimize the amount of equipment you have on the road. That can be done by hiring other companies as opposed to running a ton of buses and having 2/3rds of them sit all winter.

 

On 5/29/2021 at 8:24 PM, Lawrence St said:

I've also seen his ads for his GA bus service...it's cringy to say the least lol. But with the amount of talking he does, he should prove he can run a service like others are doing.

You should ask yourself why NJT rushed the 308 into service beginning this weekend. It wouldn't be because I didn't know what I am doing, right?

I choose not to correct the record regarding what we do and don't do. I am whatever you say I am.

Meanwhile, we have the biggest window for service expansion since deregulation if you are willing to get hammered by the insurance companies. I would rather try and fail than not try at all.

[Lawrence St]

16 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

You should ask yourself why NJT rushed the 308 into service beginning this weekend. It wouldn't be because I didn't know what I am doing, right?

I choose not to correct the record regarding what we do and don't do. I am whatever you say I am.

Meanwhile, we have the biggest window for service expansion since deregulation if you are willing to get hammered by the insurance companies. I would rather try and fail than not try at all.

I admire your optimism. What buse(s) did you use for the 122 and 144 routes and what happened to them?

Edited June 2, 2021 by Lawrence St

[JAzumah]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:40 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Take your salt over to NYCEDC and get one of two things done:
1) A contract with Academy that is longer than one year.
2) Get NYCEDC to directly pay the MTA to run these routes.

The SIM24 is losing its ridership to surrounding bus routes because its schedule is not being run at the minimum frequency guidelines for express bus service. Each SIM routes should be transporting people in its direct catchment area. The SIM24 needs to run at least every 30 minutes from start to finish in order to be a functional alternative on the South Shore. 

In addition, NYC REFUSES to offer the MTA the same money that they are offering to Academy.

In addition, NYC refuses to do more than one year contract extensions. Academy simplified its fleet by dumping the 19xx buses, so all of the SIM23 and SIM24 trips now have newer buses than before and giving them a longer contract would allow them to keep the newer buses there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Take your salt over to NYCEDC and get one of two things done:
1) A contract with Academy that is longer than one year.
2) Get NYCEDC to directly pay the MTA to run these routes.

The SIM24 is losing its ridership to surrounding bus routes because its schedule is not being run at the minimum frequency guidelines for express bus service. Each SIM routes should be transporting people in its direct catchment area. The SIM24 needs to run at least every 30 minutes from start to finish in order to be a functional alternative on the South Shore. 

In addition, NYC REFUSES to offer the MTA the same money that they are offering to Academy.

In addition, NYC refuses to do more than one year contract extensions. Academy simplified its fleet by dumping the 19xx buses, so all of the SIM23 and SIM24 trips now have newer buses than before and giving them a longer contract would allow them to keep the newer buses there.

There are a number of reasons for the ridership loss, but in any event, the elected officials on Staten Island have continued to push for the  to eventually take over both the SIM23 and SIM24. 

[JAzumah]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:26 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The X30 now the SIM30 was one route I believe the  took over from him, as he left riders high and dry often, with buses breaking down on the Turnpike. Smh.

I never operated the X30 or any derivatives of it.

In addition, I have never had a commuter bus (contracted or otherwise) break down on the New Jersey Turnpike except for once on the 144. The other bus had antifreeze added to its fuel tank by a competing bus company and put on a giant smoke show just before the tunnel.

You should get your facts straight or avoid the topic altogether. That's the problem when you go on a message board with actual topics and you spend more time talking about the people on the board than the actual topic. 

 

15 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There are a number of reasons for the ridership loss, but in any event, the elected officials on Staten Island have continued to push for the  to eventually take over both the SIM23 and SIM24. 

No, they are not pushing for it.

All NYCEDC has to do is give the MTA the money that the private carrier is getting now and they will operate the route. They have said as much. Atlantic Express had very strong political connections on Staten Island. I am not sure if Academy has maintained those connections. However, the city has made the decision not to give them that money and the MTA has decided not to operate the routes (which is the right decision, IMO). If they were pushing, it would have been done already.

[checkmatechamp13]

14 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

I never operated the X30 or any derivatives of it.

In addition, I have never had a commuter bus (contracted or otherwise) break down on the New Jersey Turnpike except for once on the 144. The other bus had antifreeze added to its fuel tank by a competing bus company and put on a giant smoke show just before the tunnel.

You should get your facts straight or avoid the topic altogether. That's the problem when you go on a message board with actual topics and you spend more time talking about the people on the board than the actual topic. 

I'm confused as to what the 144 was doing on the turnpike? Didn't it run up through the Bayonne Bridge to Jersey City?

On 5/29/2021 at 8:20 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, it was a private line run by him. I believe the X30 started around 2007 or so as a line under the  .

The MTA started the X30 WAAAY before 2007. I have a map from 2002 that shows it under MTA control. Also, I was already living here at that time and around 2008 was when they routed it down South Avenue. 

In any case, Academy was the one who ran the Forest Avenue - Midtown express route (along with several routes on the South Shore, including what ended up becoming the X23/24, which were transferred to Atlantic Express). The transfer from Academy to MTA was made in 2001. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 hours ago, JAzumah said:

No, they are not pushing for it.

All NYCEDC has to do is give the MTA the money that the private carrier is getting now and they will operate the route. They have said as much. Atlantic Express had very strong political connections on Staten Island. I am not sure if Academy has maintained those connections. However, the city has made the decision not to give them that money and the MTA has decided not to operate the routes (which is the right decision, IMO). If they were pushing, it would have been done already.

I may have been mistaken about ALL of the routes you've run that have been a disaster, but you don't have a stellar record, that much is obvious. You are absolutely wrong about the elected officials pushing for the  to take over:

Quote

My goal long term is to have these routes taken over by the MTA. I think that would provide better service,” said Oddo.

“Twenty years ago I would have never said that. Ten years ago I probably wouldn’t have said that. But having experienced what I’ve experienced the last few years, I think that it’s in the best interest of Staten Island," Oddo continued.

https://www.silive.com/news/2019/09/mta-wants-to-take-over-academy-run-sim23-sim24-city-silent-on-talks.html

11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'm confused as to what the 144 was doing on the turnpike? Didn't it run up through the Bayonne Bridge to Jersey City?

The MTA started the X30 WAAAY before 2007. I have a map from 2002 that shows it under MTA control. Also, I was already living here at that time and around 2008 was when they routed it down South Avenue. 

In any case, Academy was the one who ran the Forest Avenue - Midtown express route (along with several routes on the South Shore, including what ended up becoming the X23/24, which were transferred to Atlantic Express). The transfer from Academy to MTA was made in 2001. 

It's 13+ years ago, so I may be fuzzy on some details, but for some reason I don't remember it starting before 2007, and I was riding the express bus circa 2006. I was definitely using the X30 around that time (2007), though not as regularly as the X14.

[JAzumah]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You are absolutely wrong about the elected officials pushing for the  to take over:

From the article:

“The only caveat is the finances have to add up. … We will have to strike the right deal with the city to make sure that we’re not inheriting a loss-making arrangement. We’ve got to be properly recompensed for taking that service over,” Byford said.

To recap:
1) The MTA wanted to take the service over.
2) The MTA says that the city has to subsidize them.
3) The NYCEDC is a city agency with literally unlimited scope, which is why they handle the tricky projects.
4) The MTA essentially redesigned the SIM23 and SIM24 for Academy to fit its network.

So the City has the money to give to the MTA (because it is giving it to Academy now) and it simply takes a small administrative transfer. What is the problem then? 

The problem is that the City doesn't want to give the MTA the money. PERIOD. Oddo himself has a large enough sausage to get it done. With all of the additional people on the bandwagon, why isn't it happening? You can't just listen to what people say. You have to watch what they do.

[JAzumah]

On 6/1/2021 at 11:19 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

The MTA started the X30 WAAAY before 2007. I have a map from 2002 that shows it under MTA control. Also, I was already living here at that time and around 2008 was when they routed it down South Avenue. 

That is correct. When Academy lost the South Shore contract, they discontinued all of their commuter services. The X30 was started two months later (August 2001) with three trips and those buses were PACKED from day 1.