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MTA cuts 'Draconian' 1.2B (& rising)

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MTA cuts 'Draconian' 1.2B (& rising)

BY PETE DONOHUE

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

 

Tuesday, November 11th 2008, 3:15 AM

 

Straphangers will suffer a "Draconian" array of double-digit fare hikes and service cuts next year unless the state helps rescue the MTA, officials warned Monday.

 

Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials wouldn't release details of a still-developing doomsday budget plan, but sources said bus riders - particularly on express routes - would likely see the biggest cuts.

 

Subway riders would see fewer trains, especially on lines with parallel service, such as the Broadway line in Manhattan, where N, R and W trains run, sources said.

 

Layoffs also are on the table, officials said.

 

"The word 'Draconian' is not inappropriate," MTA CEO Elliot Sander said.

 

The projected 2009 MTA budget gap has ballooned by $300 million, to $1.2 billion, officials announced at the meeting.

 

Like most public agencies, the MTA expected tough times but was walloped earlier and harder by the Wall Street crisis than officials had predicted. Without a concrete state plan, the MTA needs to find approximately $800 million through fare and toll hikes and cutting the budget more than previously discussed, officials said.

 

The MTA board prefers fare increases to cuts in maintenance and service. In order for the agency to raise roughly 70% of the $800 million with hikes, fare and toll revenues would need to jump 20%. Four months ago, the MTA released a preliminary 2009 budget that included fare and toll revenues rising by 8%. It didn't include service cuts.

 

The MTA is finalizing a revised - harsher - financial plan. The MTA board votes on a final budget next month and, by law, must have a balanced budget, said MTA Chairman Dale Hemmerdinger.

 

Fare hikes and service cuts could be scaled back or eliminated if Gov. Paterson and the Legislature adopt a rescue plan, Sander said.

 

That action would have to be approved by early next year for a reprieve to work, Sander said.

 

"Addressing the fiscal challenges facing the MTA and the state over the next several years will require shared sacrifice, difficult choices and cooperation from all," Paterson said.

 

Next month, a commission headed by former MTA Chairman Richard Ravitch is to release recommendations on how to close the MTA's operating and capital budgets gaps - including the possibility of East River tolls. The next capital plan, starting in 2010, has a projected gap of about $15 billion.

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If they have a fare hike i will never use the subway again for a VERY long time, i'd rather walk than be ripped off. I have a limited income, and so do a lot of people who depend on the subway to get places. How about raising taxes on some of them rich folks instead of taking it out on joe the commuter.

 

- A

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If they have a fare hike i will never use the subway again for a VERY long time, i'd rather walk than be ripped off. I have a limited income, and so do a lot of people who depend on the subway to get places. How about raising taxes on some of them rich folks instead of taking it out on joe the commuter.

 

- A

 

Lolz, follow Obama's policy! Rescue plan!

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Seriously. Combine $500 billion transit bill with a mandate that transportation agencies/companies trim wasteful practices and restrictions on executive raises & compensation. Rails are good for everyone. :D

 

- A

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Again, for those of you who cry foul about another fare hike, if you live within walking, skating, bicycling, skateboarding, etc..., distance from your jobs, then I say, use those modes of transportation. For those who need public transportation even at $3 a ride, I say well then stop riding and get a cab. A cab from lets say..... Riverdale to Mid-town is about $20+. A round trip is about $40+, times 5 days a week, which is about $200+ a week. If the subway and bus fare was $3, thats $6 a day (round trip), times 5 days. That's 30$ a week. A month by cab would be +800, by MetroCard (let's say $100 for an unlimited monthly). Wow :eek::eek:, I would save $700 dollars a month.

 

My point is the MTA knows just about all of those who cry foul, have absolutely no cheaper alternative that can even begin to compare with MTAs cheap price, and the ridership has actually increased. That is why I call you all passengers, not customers. Customers have an alternative for the same price, passengers do not.......

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Right now 10 dollars gives you 5 rides. If the fare went to 3 dollars it would drop to 3 rides. If you have 50 dollars, you get 25 rides, fare at 3 dollars you only get 16 rides. It isn't about comparing to other modes, it's about reasonable fee for service. If the fare was 5 cents a ride you'd get 200 rides. I mean if you have the fare system at 3 dollars, people will ride less, and (NYCT) will make more cutbacks based on that, leaving the system with less service than it needs, it is all ready less than it needs so it wouldn't be good for the city. You think the lex is crowded now, imagine increased headways how packed those stations and trains will be for people who have no other alternative. Very stupid if you ask me. For 3 dollars i can get 60 miles on a bike, or 30-40 miles in a good car. Got news for ya, NYC isn't that big. For people with cars in the city, driving is cheaper, possibly even when you include tolls for outside folks.

 

It's all about cost per mile. You want more people to use transit, then don't raise the fares. You want fewer people to use it and have revenue drop, raise it. The raise won't make up the difference in lost ridership.

 

A good example is NJ transit rail. If they raise fares any more they will start losing people to amtrak and driving. 21.50 round trip tre-nyp today vs 14.50 8 years ago. One way plus one way is more expensive, but they allow usage of peak hour trains without additional fee. I say they lower fares to attract more trips per week.

 

But what do i know i've only been riding for 10 years. :cool:

 

- A

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Right now 10 dollars gives you 5 rides. If the fare went to 3 dollars it would drop to 3 rides. If you have 50 dollars, you get 25 rides, fare at 3 dollars you only get 16 rides. It isn't about comparing to other modes, it's about reasonable fee for service. If the fare was 5 cents a ride you'd get 200 rides. I mean if you have the fare system at 3 dollars, people will ride less, and (NYCT) will make more cutbacks based on that, leaving the system with less service than it needs, it is all ready less than it needs so it wouldn't be good for the city. You think the lex is crowded now, imagine increased headways how packed those stations and trains will be for people who have no other alternative. Very stupid if you ask me. For 3 dollars i can get 60 miles on a bike, or 30-40 miles in a good car. Got news for ya, NYC isn't that big. For people with cars in the city, driving is cheaper, possibly even when you include tolls for outside folks.

 

It's all about cost per mile. You want more people to use transit, then don't raise the fares. You want fewer people to use it and have revenue drop, raise it. The raise won't make up the difference in lost ridership.

 

A good example is NJ transit rail. If they raise fares any more they will start losing people to amtrak and driving. 21.50 round trip tre-nyp today vs 14.50 8 years ago. One way plus one way is more expensive, but they allow usage of peak hour trains without additional fee. I say they lower fares to attract more trips per week.

 

But what do i know i've only been riding for 10 years. :cool:

 

- A

 

 

I'm not counting how many rides per fare, I'm making an example of cost per other modes going the same direction (using cash). NYC isn't that big, but good luck adding up the cost of tolls, parking, tickets, cause eventually it will happen, and take into account most are far to lazy to bike in NYC (unless it's for leisure). No matter what numbers are given by anyone on this board, MTA knows exactly what I'm telling you. That's why they won't and don't care of how much outrage people have towards a fare hike.

 

It's the states fault why the fares are going up also. Subway cars and buses cost an astounding amount of money to buy, and to maintain. People need to fix them and people need to move then. That costs. Parts cost. They break down and need fixing. None of your fares even begin to cover the cost of just running the service, let alone fixing and maintaining things. It's the taxpayers money for those who live and/or work in NYS, and all tax money when federal dollars are involved, that keep this agency running. That's why on the news they usually say, the mostly or heavily state subsidized agency. That's what it is. To be honest, I think a fare hike will come (due to the MTA not caring about the outrage (they pretend they do)), but service being cut, won't be allowed to happen. This is the usual stuff the TA does to get a small hike, and to get the state or feds to get them more money.........

 

As for the Lex, I hear you there. I have operated over there, and during the rush, I have had to leave people on the platform, due to the lack of room. I don't see why the MTA just doesn't extend the platforms on the Lex and add 2 more cars. It would be a long process, but it needs be done, along with the SAS being completed..... Again I don't think they will be allowed to cut service. Votes say so........

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The government (state and federal) is responsible for nearly wiping out passenger rail in the usa, sad but not shocking they would do it to transit that NYC has become dependent on. I posted a quote about joe the plumber not deserving rail transportation. I really think the $ that has gone into expanding roads in the last 10 years could fund the entire country in terms of mass transportation. Look at the auto industry now. Gee, i guess we should have invested more in public transportation/mass transit huh? :(

 

Lets see if they figure it out this time or fail again.

 

- A

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Here my takes on 20-something MTA Bus/NYCT bus lines planned for cuts that was posted on another transit site recently.

Pardon me if it's very long. Feel free to reply.

 

Now more comments as the proposed bus list for NYC Transit buses grows every day.

 

Discontinue weekend/late evening service on the

 

Brooklyn

 

B2-provides an alternative to busy B-3. Keep full weekend service but maybe end it at around 11pm.

 

B4-Did not the MTA just a year or so ago reccomend this route for full 24/7 service during it's now pipeline for expanded bus service? I say keep it current weekend service but reduce it to 12Midnight.

 

B-14-I never riden this line late at night so no comment.

 

B16-Why this route and not the nearby B70? On Saturdays evenings i seen occasional SRO. Maybe at worst case like the B4 end bus service at 11pm-Midnight instead of currently around 1am.

 

B24-Unless this route is restuctured it(ie merge it with nearby routes like the Q104, B39 or B48) service hours should just be reduced. (ie ending service at around 11pm)However B24 should not end weekend service mainly for riders goingto UPS facility at 48th St/LIE Service Road and other areas along Greenpoint Ave.

 

B-31. I Agree with the MTA 100% on this proposal. Yet most of the NIMBYS in Gerritean Beach who never use this line off hours will fight nail & toe to keep this a waste of service.

 

B48-Provides an alternative also for the Franklin Ave shuttle and unreible B43. Is service along Meeker Ave really needed? A radical idea could be merge the Greepoint Ave portion of B24 with B48. Only overnight service should be cut.

 

B-57.The area near Flushing Ave is growing. Provides an alternative to Crosstown Brooklyn-Ridgewood, Queens riders tobusy nearby B-54, and B-38 lines.

 

B64-This line ridership is growing and yet they want to can overnight service? The only option is the nearby but unreible B-1. Keep it untouched.

 

B-65-Only overnight service should be cut. To increase ridership this line should be extended via Gaston and Liberty Ave to Bway Jct to provide service to that housing project when the B40 was canned nearly 10 years ago.

 

B67. I agree with canning overnight B75 but 'no' to ending B67 late night service. Mainly since it serves '2' hopstials (Methodist Hopstial and LI College Hosptial)and '1' all night bus service should remain to serve ADA riders who cant use the subway.

 

B69-Although low ridership there is no North-South Route between Franklin/Classon and Flatbush between Eastern Pwy and Flushing Ave. This needs a restcture such as extending or mergering it via B68 CI Avenue to at least Avenue J. Also provides sevice to several High Schools/Colleges in area. Keep it.

 

B71-Unless it restcutred ie planned extension via Battery Tunnel to South Ferry, weekend service in worst case scenrio could be cut since most riders already the nearby B75.

 

B75-Why? Most of the stations along "F" line in Brooklyn still not ADA accessible. Only late night service should be cut.

 

B-77. This is a slap in face to Red Hook riders. Especially those going to work at the new "Red Hook" Ikea. "NO' to ending the late night B77 service.

 

Should be on chopping block IMO:

 

B-74-weekend service.

 

X27/28 should just opearte on 1-hour headways Saturdys 7am-9pm only and 8am-6pm Sundays/Holidays.

 

 

Bronx

BX10-Why end late night service? "NO' to ending overnight service on BX10 over busy Riverdale/Kappoc St area. Or run the BX7 all night as another option.

 

Should be cut.

 

Bronx MTA Express Buses

 

BXM4(Bedford Park branch) weekend service. Replaced by using nearby BXM3 and BXm4 Katonah Ave branch via Concourse.

 

BXM7a Pelham Bay weekend service should merge with BXM7 COOP City service.

 

BXM7 Pelham Bay on selected trips weekdays is extended to City Island and replaces the BXM7b City Island peak hour service.

 

Manhattan

 

M1, M2, M104-This is another slap in face to ADA riders that although these lines run near a subway many stations in Manhatan are still not wheelchair accessible. Plus for the first time ever no overnight local bus service along 5th/Madison and 42nd St in heart of the world's busiest city? The TA is already trying to cut owl service on the nearby M16 and M42 also.

Plus the stairs leading to the #7 line is very steep.

 

"NO" to ending overnight M1 M2 and M104. However M104 late night headways could be increased to every hour from currently every 40 minutes though.

 

M8-Just OVernight and late evning should be cut and service ends at around 11pm.

 

M16-"NO" Just extend it to Javits Center when M42 does not run overnights.

 

M66-"Yes' but run it till around 1230am daily.

 

M79. "NO" Keep it a 24/7 route but use non-artics late evenings and overnights.

 

M21-Service should be restuctured not totally canned. Only crowsstown route between 14th St and Chambers St. (assuming the M8 is cut)

 

M22-Should be kept 24/7 as only Lower Manhattan full time line besides the M15.

 

M42-Only if the M16 is extended late nights to the Javits Center area.

 

M50-Only late night service shold be cut.

 

M96-serves a major hosptial/medical center. "NO" to late night service cut.

 

Queens

 

Q14-A restucture such as mergering this line with the Q34 might do wonders.

 

Q31-Have only riden it 1-2x times so no comment on this.

 

Q74.-I seen it SRO during rush hours. Maybe make it a rush hours only line. Queens College should also provide it own 'shuttle' between Kew Gardens and their school instead.

 

Q-75.-Only if the Q64 is extended to Oakland Gardens as was discussed at time of MTA takeover.

 

Q76-Why? This route last year in a now 'shame' MTA prposal was supposed to have Sunday service. Just keep the current service but reduce late Saturday evening service between 9-11pm(last bus)

with 1-hour headways as worst case scnerios.

 

Q79-Extend it to Floral Park RR station might hav saved this route. Otherwise maybe merge it with selected trips of the Q110 or Q36 might be helpful.

 

 

 

Staten Island

S54 and S57- Why? The closest North-South routes Clove Road(S53)and Richmond Ave(S44/59)is a long way.Worst scnerio maybe as people have suggeted have the S57 run to/from SI Mall as it 'northern terminal' and the S54 at Port Richmond.

 

S60-Should be canned. Maybe have it merged with the S93 and have the 93 **loop in/out of St John's University SI Campus and agner providing service for students going to/from Brooklyn.

 

S76-Why? The S74 is very unreaible. Maybe reduce hours to last buses ending at 10pm weekdays and 8pm weekends.

 

Replies?

Edited by Hudson River
forget to add.

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Here my takes on 20-something MTA Bus/NYCT bus lines planned for cuts that was posted on another transit site recently.

Pardon me if it's very long. Feel free to reply.

My opinion in red bold

 

Now more comments as the proposed bus list for NYC Transit buses grows every day.

 

Discontinue weekend/late evening service on the

 

Brooklyn

 

B2-provides an alternative to busy B-3. Keep full weekend service but maybe end it at around 11pm. Agree

 

B4-Did not the MTA just a year or so ago reccomend this route for full 24/7 service during it's now pipeline for expanded bus service? I say keep it current weekend service but reduce it to 12Midnight. I say increase school service but not midnight, that should be cut.

B-14-I never riden this line late at night so no comment. The line is somewhat long, and there are enought nearby buses to service the area.B16-Why this route and not the nearby B70? On Saturdays evenings i seen occasional SRO. Maybe at worst case like the B4 end bus service at 11pm-Midnight instead of currently around 1am.

Totally agree.

B24-Unless this route is restuctured it(ie merge it with nearby routes like the Q104, B39 or B48) service hours should just be reduced. (ie ending service at around 11pm)However B24 should not end weekend service mainly for riders goingto UPS facility at 48th St/LIE Service Road and other areas along Greenpoint Ave.

Just delete it!!!!!!!!!

B-31. I Agree with the MTA 100% on this proposal. Yet most of the NIMBYS in Gerritean Beach who never use this line off hours will fight nail & toe to keep this a waste of service. Agree, I believe this should be ran less often on weekdays.B48-Provides an alternative also for the Franklin Ave shuttle and unreible B43. Is service along Meeker Ave really needed? A radical idea could be merge the Greepoint Ave portion of B24 with B48. Only overnight service should be cut.Agree

 

B-57.The area near Flushing Ave is growing. Provides an alternative to Crosstown Brooklyn-Ridgewood, Queens riders tobusy nearby B-54, and B-38 lines.[B]Also agree[/b]

 

B64-This line ridership is growing and yet they want to can overnight service? The only option is the nearby but unreible B-1. Keep it untouched.

Agree

 

B-65-Only overnight service should be cut. To increase ridership this line should be extended via Gaston and Liberty Ave to Bway Jct to provide service to that housing project when the B40 was canned nearly 10 years ago.

Disagree. I believe weekend service on this should be cut also

B67. I agree with canning overnight B75 but 'no' to ending B67 late night service. Mainly since it serves '2' hopstials (Methodist Hopstial and LI College Hosptial)and '1' all night bus service should remain to serve ADA riders who cant use the subway. Disagree. Overnight service and weekend service should be axed.

B69-Although low ridership there is no North-South Route between Franklin/Classon and Flatbush between Eastern Pwy and Flushing Ave. This needs a restcture such as extending or mergering it via B68 CI Avenue to at least Avenue J. Also provides sevice to several High Schools/Colleges in area. Keep it. Agree

 

B71-Unless it restcutred ie planned extension via Battery Tunnel to South Ferry, weekend service in worst case scenrio could be cut since most riders already the nearby B75. Hell yea

 

B75-Why? Most of the stations along "F" line in Brooklyn still not ADA accessible. Only late night service should be cut. Disagree. Axe it already

B-77. This is a slap in face to Red Hook riders. Especially those going to work at the new "Red Hook" Ikea. "NO' to ending the late night B77 service. Disagree. You got a IKEA shuttleShould be on chopping block IMO:

 

B-74-weekend service.

 

X27/28 should just opearte on 1-hour headways Saturdys 7am-9pm only and 8am-6pm Sundays/Holidays.

 

 

Bronx

BX10-Why end late night service? "NO' to ending overnight service on BX10 over busy Riverdale/Kappoc St area. Or run the BX7 all night as another option.

 

Should be cut.

 

Bronx MTA Express Buses

 

BXM4(Bedford Park branch) weekend service. Replaced by using nearby BXM3 and BXm4 Katonah Ave branch via Concourse.

 

BXM7a Pelham Bay weekend service should merge with BXM7 COOP City service.

 

BXM7 Pelham Bay on selected trips weekdays is extended to City Island and replaces the BXM7b City Island peak hour service.

 

Manhattan

 

M1, M2, M104-This is another slap in face to ADA riders that although these lines run near a subway many stations in Manhatan are still not wheelchair accessible. Plus for the first time ever no overnight local bus service along 5th/Madison and 42nd St in heart of the world's busiest city? The TA is already trying to cut owl service on the nearby M16 and M42 also.

Plus the stairs leading to the #7 line is very steep.

 

"NO" to ending overnight M1 M2 and M104. However M104 late night headways could be increased to every hour from currently every 40 minutes though.

 

M8-Just OVernight and late evning should be cut and service ends at around 11pm.

 

M16-"NO" Just extend it to Javits Center when M42 does not run overnights.

 

M66-"Yes' but run it till around 1230am daily.

 

M79. "NO" Keep it a 24/7 route but use non-artics late evenings and overnights.

 

M21-Service should be restuctured not totally canned. Only crowsstown route between 14th St and Chambers St. (assuming the M8 is cut)

 

M22-Should be kept 24/7 as only Lower Manhattan full time line besides the M15.

 

M42-Only if the M16 is extended late nights to the Javits Center area.

 

M50-Only late night service shold be cut.

 

M96-serves a major hosptial/medical center. "NO" to late night service cut.

 

Queens

 

Q14-A restucture such as mergering this line with the Q34 might do wonders.

 

Q31-Have only riden it 1-2x times so no comment on this.

 

Q74.-I seen it SRO during rush hours. Maybe make it a rush hours only line. Queens College should also provide it own 'shuttle' between Kew Gardens and their school instead.

 

Q-75.-Only if the Q64 is extended to Oakland Gardens as was discussed at time of MTA takeover.

 

Q76-Why? This route last year in a now 'shame' MTA prposal was supposed to have Sunday service. Just keep the current service but reduce late Saturday evening service between 9-11pm(last bus)

with 1-hour headways as worst case scnerios.

 

Q79-Extend it to Floral Park RR station might hav saved this route. Otherwise maybe merge it with selected trips of the Q110 or Q36 might be helpful.

 

 

 

Staten Island

S54 and S57- Why? The closest North-South routes Clove Road(S53)and Richmond Ave(S44/59)is a long way.Worst scnerio maybe as people have suggeted have the S57 run to/from SI Mall as it 'northern terminal' and the S54 at Port Richmond.

 

S60-Should be canned. Maybe have it merged with the S93 and have the 93 **loop in/out of St John's University SI Campus and agner providing service for students going to/from Brooklyn.

 

S76-Why? The S74 is very unreaible. Maybe reduce hours to last buses ending at 10pm weekdays and 8pm weekends.

 

Replies?

 

Thats it.

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Ulmer and Mr Wang thanks for reply. We all agree on most of the buses listed on the chopping block only late nights in worst case scenrio should be canned.

 

I only disagree with both of you guys(Mr Wang and Ulmer)on the B67 and B75. There are a large senior population in Park Slope area. The B67 and B75 also serve Methodist Hosptial the only major medical center for Park Slope.

 

How does the eledery and ADA riders get to Methodist Hosptial? The 7th Ave "F" train station has no elevators or wheelchair ramps.

Yes both the B67 and B75 gets less riders on the weekend but many of those riders of the '2' lines get off at or near the 7th Av/9th St stop near the Hosptial.

 

I can agree that overnight service on the B67 and B75 if needed could be cut. However until all of the "F" line stations in Brooklyn area are AFD aceesible the B67 and B75 full time service 7 days a week is a must for the ADA and senior communities.

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