Express bus taken for a ride: Honor system fails miserably, no one checks on Bx12

[Trainspotter]

Fare-beaters are running rampant over the honor system that governs Bx12 Select Bus Service buses in the Bronx - at the very time the cash-strapped MTA needs the money most.

 

Bronx Boro News counted five farebeaters within one hour on a recent day, 23 more in a half-hour another day, and 15 more within an hour another day, all at the Williamsbridge Road stop on Pelham Parkway.

 

"They're not checking, so why should I pay?" said one man. "I pay enough for everything else in this world."

 

A youngster who beat the fare at first protested that he had purchased a ticket - but only grinned when asked to show it.

 

The Bx12 express buses, marked by flashing blue lights, allow riders, before boarding, to buy tickets from either a MetroCard or coin-operated terminal, the idea being to make the bus ride quicker.

 

The MTA is supposed to have cops and members of its Transit Department of Security riding to check for tickets.

 

"They very rarely check," said Julia Sacasa, 73, as she waited for the Select Bus Service. "I've been on the bus a lot of times, and they only checked once."

 

Complicating matters, riders said the terminals - especially the coin-operated ones - are often broken, forcing people either to fare-jump or take a local bus.

 

On a recent day, the coin-operated terminal at Williamsbridge Road and Pelham Parkway was not operational.

 

"It's broken. It's always broken," huffed one woman, who declined to give her name. "I'm going to get on the other bus. What can I do? I'll take the local."

 

Instead, she wound up beating the fare on the express bus.

 

The MTA said it has issued 3,000 $100 summonses to fare-beaters since the service began 10 months ago.

 

"The overwhelming majority of SBS customers pay their fares and bene-fit from a speedier bus ride to their destination," Vincent DeMarino, NYC Transit vice president of security, said in a statement.

 

"It is faster and more efficient than other bus services in the city. And it is fast becoming the model for other transit agencies throughout the region to emulate," he said.

 

Still, the fare-beating continues.

 

On a recent day, a group of schoolchildren approached the Bx12 bus, wondering aloud whether to buy a ticket.

 

"They never check," said one.

 

"You're right," said another.

 

BY Mike Jaccarino

May 19th 2009

[theprogram4]

its true, ive never once seen them check

[CPBO]

This was a bad idea from the start.....I mean come on...I have to fight with people all day to pay the fare.....so did they think this BX12 SELECT was going to make them money??....who ever was behind this should be fired!! this was part of the old (Sander). Last night while driving home from work...I heard on 1010 that they say they are 200 million in the hole.....and want to cut station agents....well start pluggin the hole by doing away with this BX12 SELECT bus!!

 

 

pppfff a model for the rest of the country....yae whatever!!!

[Qns Blvd Dom]

The best soultion is to make the Bx12+ back to the Bx12 LTD. I have seen some fare evaders as well on the Bx12+. I've been saying this over and over for the last few years, the M15 should have been the first SBS route, not the Bx12. If they do decide to make the Bx12+ back to Bx12 LTD, then give MJQ back their 57xx D60HF's.

 

I would have to disagree 100%! Do you want to do back to the day's where it took up to 5 minutes to load everybody up when with SBS it only takes no more then 2 Minutes to load everybody up? It took forever just to make it across the bronx before SBS. Now you can get across The Bronx in under 50 Minutes with good traffic. Not even the old BX12 LTD would get you across that fast. Even on a bad day, it's still faster to get across on the SBS then the old BX12 LTD.

If my understanding is correct that people are supposed to report a broken machine to the B/O where the B/O is to take a note of it and report it to the proper person. If people report broken fare equipment in a timely matter, it can be fixed in a timely matter. It's not like somebody is going to drive by every hour to see if they are working.

As far as the fares being checked, I have seen them out there checking several times and I have gotten checked at least once. The main problem is that it's a small group of people from MTA Security that are doing the fare checks so they can't always be on every single bus. That is why it's called RANDOM Fare Checks. I sure that they would get a few more people down the road to do it!

[MTR Admiralty]

Aside from what you stated, I really don't see a big difference. However, I did ride the Bx12 LTD on the Friday before the implementation of Select Bus Service. Mind you, this was during the PM rush. The first SBS route should have been the M15 LTD for three reasons, 1) More people use it more than any other local route, 2) Helps get people on the bus quicker (the northbound M15 stop at 14th Street/1st Avenue sees more people than any stop along the Bx12), and 3) Traffic along 1st and 2nd Avenues is far worse than Fordham Road.

 

I have to agree with you on this one. I did an interview with random passengers and asked them how the ride went. One passenger said that the line is very crowded and that he was better off with the local. Another said that SBS is faster than the LTD by approximately one minute.

Based on the demographics (not being racist or anything), BX12 SBS is a poor experiment. There are people on the stretch who are inclined to wreck the fareboxes, or who are inclined to beat the fare. Put the SBS on the M15 and you will see a different story, people on that line will at least be more mannerly and civilised and more inclined to "do the right thing" and pay the fare properly. Plus, First and Second Avenues could sacrifice a lane each for the service, for they are generously wide (even if there's the subway construction going on).

[MTR Admiralty]

Thank you very much. SBS is an interesting concept but it was implemented on the wrong route initially.

M15 is a better route since the people really need a better service. They complain about how slow the M15 is and how they have to walk 10 minutes to the Lexington lines, only to find it crowded. The M15 SBS, if implemented first, would have been the flagship line for the SBS system.

[eli]

The best soultion is to make the Bx12+ back to the Bx12 LTD. I have seen some fare evaders as well on the Bx12+. I've been saying this over and over for the last few years, the M15 should have been the first SBS route, not the Bx12. If they do decide to make the Bx12+ back to Bx12 LTD, then give MJQ back their 57xx D60HF's.

I agree with the part you said to make the Bx12+ back to the Bx12 LTD. :tup:

i don't think SBS is not needed anyways.

[MTR Admiralty]

i don't think SBS is not needed anyways.

 

It's a poor model of bona fide BRT. Look at Curitaba or TransMilenio. Those systems make our SBS look like crap.

[S78 via Hylan]

Thank you very much. SBS is an interesting concept but it was implemented on the wrong route initially.

 

I agree with you too. I can't wait to see SBS on the M15 since I take that route to school.

[Far Rock Depot]

i knew this was going to happen. i cant see SBS working in new york as well as a light rail would honestly IMO. Something like Philly's Subway/Surface Trolleys and Boston's Green line with Type 8 LRVs. Both have fare boxes and a Pre-bording payment systems within their routes.

[aemoreira81]

its true, ive never once seen them check

 

The reason why they never check is very simple:

 

If a single payment center has all machines of one mode down, fare enforcement cannot necessarily know if people were affected from the point afterward. This is especially true of westbound buses into Fordham, as the machines at the Williamsbridge Road station westbound frequently break down.

 

I have had a breakdown happen to me as well.

 

Perhaps the only way to make it work would be to install gates at the stops and put in turnstiles and enclosed spaces that would open with bus doors.

[MTR Admiralty]

i knew this was going to happen. i cant see SBS working in new york as well as a light rail would honestly IMO. Something like Philly's Subway/Surface Trolleys and Boston's Green line with Type 8 LRVs. Both have fare boxes and a Pre-bording payment systems within their routes.

It's the fact that people think that POP = free ride. It's not. If you're busted you're going to pay a hundred more times the actual fare. However we do have a history of farebeating on normal non-SBS buses. Freeloading is very popular on some lines. If SBS needs to be implemented it needs these two:

-high visibility shelters with strict fare control: fare gates (HEETs). Just like subway stations. Something like the Curitaba model could be used. That prevents this issue.

-lane enforcement: make sure the bus lane is free from other vehicles. Have like barriers protecting the lane from other traffic.

[Far Rock Depot]

for all that, they might as well lay down some track, put a cantanary up and you have Zero emmisions. Light rail.

[MTR Admiralty]

for all that, they might as well lay down some track, put a cantanary up and you have Zero emmisions. Light rail.

Might as well! I've always said to myself: "if a certain bus line has its own infrastructure, like that of a light rail line, why not build it as a light rail line in the first place?'

[Far Rock Depot]

Might as well! I've always said to myself: "if a certain bus line has its own infrastructure, like that of a light rail line, why not build it as a light rail line in the first place?'

 

well said

[mark1447]

The Bronx 12SBS does get very crowded from Fordham Plaza to White Plains rd and Co-op City to Pelham bay, so it was a gd idea to start here, but it would of also been better to also start at M15 seeing that their is one line with a headach and thats the IRT Lex line seeing there isnt any SAS running yet.

 

As for the Fare collector, i never seen one before since it started last yr. I always see some people avoiding to get a ticket and ride the damn bus for free..

[MTR Admiralty]

The Bronx 12SBS does get very crowded from Fordham Plaza to White Plains rd and Co-op City to Pelham bay, so it was a gd idea to start here, but it would of also been better to also start at M15 seeing that their is one line with a headach and thats the IRT Lex line seeing there isnt any SAS running yet.

 

As for the Fare collector, i never seen one before since it started last yr. I always see some people avoiding to get a ticket and ride the damn bus for free..

Since it's so crowded, they could just sneak off the bus when the see the dude coming. By the way, how many fare checkers are there?

[mark1447]

Since it's so crowded, they could just sneak off the bus when the see the dude coming. By the way, how many fare checkers are there?

 

lol true, But like i said , ive seen none. There could be like 1 or 2 roaming the entire BRT, seeing some B/Os tell me. They seen one like a week ago or so. But when ever I ride a big Fat 0 =|.

 

Besides doesnt the Bus stay where its at till the collector finishes inspection?

[Qns Blvd Dom]

I have to agree with you on this one. I did an interview with random passengers and asked them how the ride went. One passenger said that the line is very crowded and that he was better off with the local. Another said that SBS is faster than the LTD by approximately one minute.

Based on the demographics (not being racist or anything), BX12 SBS is a poor experiment. There are people on the stretch who are inclined to wreck the fareboxes, or who are inclined to beat the fare. Put the SBS on the M15 and you will see a different story, people on that line will at least be more mannerly and civilised and more inclined to "do the right thing" and pay the fare properly. Plus, First and Second Avenues could sacrifice a lane each for the service, for they are generously wide (even if there's the subway construction going on).

 

Well it depends on how far you are riding it. Some cases you are better off taking whatever comes 1st unless you are going across the bronx or Inwood. It does in fact save time over the old LTD as according to 1 of my friends who lives along Fordham Road where my friend would use it to go to ether Eastchester Road or Bay Plaza. At least to Bay Plaza, my friend saved up to 10 Minutes over the old LTD. Eastchester Road, I honestly don't know.

I notice that in The Bronx, fare beating is quite common up there. Hell, I even see NYCT Employees going through the back door as well on non-sbs routes! I see it the most on the BX9 where it's pretty common to see at least a group of people start to form a line by the back door when the S/B BX9 comes into 225 St and Broadway where there is normally a line dispatcher there as that is like a relief point for the B/O's (Kingsbridge is on the other side of Broadway Bridge). Also see it along the route where people go though the back door w/o paying in small numbers

[armax1980]

They need to overhaul the SBS service by keeping the bus only lane system and toss out the pay before-you-get-on method. In NYC, there are too many people who feel they shouldn't pay for anything.

[Locomotion69]

This was a bad idea from the start.....I mean come on...I have to fight with people all day to pay the fare.....so did they think this BX12 SELECT was going to make them money??....who ever was behind this should be fired!! this was part of the old (Sander). Last night while driving home from work...I heard on 1010 that they say they are 200 million in the hole.....and want to cut station agents....well start pluggin the hole by doing away with this BX12 SELECT bus!!

 

 

pppfff a model for the rest of the country....yae whatever!!!

 

Is it worth the extra stress getting angry about these fare beaters? pretty good bet that most fare beaters have rap sheets,don't get mad CP,absorb it like a sponge,at the end of the day you know that you are a better man than them,that is what really counts.

[aemoreira81]

Since it's so crowded, they could just sneak off the bus when the see the dude coming. By the way, how many fare checkers are there?

 

1 or 2 roaming teams of 4 or 5 each.

 

Alternatively, the MTA should simply have the NYPD have regular officers do checks.

[aemoreira81]

Well it depends on how far you are riding it. Some cases you are better off taking whatever comes 1st unless you are going across the bronx or Inwood. It does in fact save time over the old LTD as according to 1 of my friends who lives along Fordham Road where my friend would use it to go to ether Eastchester Road or Bay Plaza. At least to Bay Plaza, my friend saved up to 10 Minutes over the old LTD. Eastchester Road, I honestly don't know.

I notice that in The Bronx, fare beating is quite common up there. Hell, I even see NYCT Employees going through the back door as well on non-sbs routes! I see it the most on the BX9 where it's pretty common to see at least a group of people start to form a line by the back door when the S/B BX9 comes into 225 St and Broadway where there is normally a line dispatcher there as that is like a relief point for the B/O's (Kingsbridge is on the other side of Broadway Bridge). Also see it along the route where people go though the back door w/o paying in small numbers

 

Speaking of the Bx12 LOCAL---one thing that should be done is to truncate it when the Bx12 Select runs to run ONLY between Pelham Bay Park and Grand Concourse. That would take 2-4 buses off the local.

 

I also wonder if the local should be downgraded to rigids (i.e., Orions).

[CPBO]

Is it worth the extra stress getting angry about these fare beaters? pretty good bet that most fare beaters have rap sheets,don't get mad CP,absorb it like a sponge,at the end of the day you know that you are a better man than them,that is what really counts.

 

I do not let the person stress me......I do my job......the fare is 2 dollars.....next!!....move or get off buddy...these people want to get to thier destination.....it is all about making his problem his....not mine.... :eek:

[CPBO]

1 or 2 roaming teams of 4 or 5 each.

 

Alternatively, the MTA should simply have the NYPD have regular officers do checks.

 

I say just do away with this debacle......plug the hole now and save some jobs and money!!!! LTD should come back.