news MTA chairman outlines future plans for Phase 2 of Second Ave. subway construction

[realizm]

The MTA’s next capital program envisions that construction on Phase 2 of the Second Ave. subway would start in roughly five years, transit officials said Thursday. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority plans to propose allocating $1.5 billion in its 2015-2019 capital program for environmental study, design and then tunneling of the long-awaited north-south subway route, officials said. Phase 1 of the project, which stretches from E. 96th St to E. 63rd St., is expected to be completed in 2016. Phase 2 will extend the line to E. 125th St., MTA Chairman Tom Prendergast said at a state assembly hearing on the authority’s capital program.

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[Quill Depot]

Insane... for that price tag the money should be put to some better use.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Insane... for that price tag the money should be put to some better use.

It is... And what's worse is the price will be far more than $1.5 billion.  The can't run a capital budget to save their lives and they know it. 

[Union Tpke]

I like the fact that they are commiting to the second phase, but they also have to work more to retain the current system in good shape, upgrading the signal system, repairing from Hurricane sandy. Replacing the Metrocard is a much needed upgrade we should look foward to.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I like the fact that they are commiting to the second phase, but they also have to work more to retain the current system in good shape, upgrading the signal system, repairing from Hurricane sandy. Replacing the Metrocard is a much needed upgrade we should look foward to.

Everyone does, but the money has to come from somewhere... 

[Union Tpke]

Everyone does, but the money has to come from somewhere... 

The lockbox bill woulda solved this, all of the money for transit is stolen for other causes

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The lockbox bill woulda solved this, all of the money for transit is stolen for other causes

lol... Yeah well that still doesn't absolve the of their inability to be fiscally sound.

[Union Tpke]

lol... Yeah well that still doesn't absolve the of their inability to be fiscally sound.

that's true

what would be your suggestions to make it be fiscally sound?

[bobtehpanda]

lol... Yeah well that still doesn't absolve the of their inability to be fiscally sound.

 

Considering all of the money saved from the 2010 service cuts was less than the amount raided from MTA's "dedicated taxes" that year, I don't think that the MTA is completely liable for the events of the past couple years.

 

The fact that Cuomo did not sign a unanimously passed lockbox bill as well as his disbanding of the Moreland ethics commission just really goes to show how sleazy his politics is.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Considering all of the money saved from the 2010 service cuts was less than the amount raided from MTA's "dedicated taxes" that year, I don't think that the MTA is completely liable for the events of the past couple years.

 

The fact that Cuomo did not sign a unanimously passed lockbox bill as well as his disbanding of the Moreland ethics commission just really goes to show how sleazy his politics is.

Oh please with the slamming of Cuomo.  While he isn't an angel by any means, he has certainly done his part to keep mass transit on the up and up in this city, more than most governors have done, that's for sure. I would probably vote for him before Astorino, even though I tend to lean Republican because Cuomo has done a good job overall.

[Lance]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly has Cuomo actually done for Transit? He takes the credit for everything good that happens, like the service restorations after Sandy or more recently, the LIRR contract negotiations after the contract was settled, even though he was adamant about not getting involved until the "final seconds" so to speak. But when things aren't going good, you never seem to see hide or hair of the man.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly has Cuomo actually done for Transit? He takes the credit for everything good that happens, like the service restorations after Sandy or more recently, the LIRR contract negotiations after the contract was settled, even though he was adamant about not getting involved until the "final seconds" so to speak. But when things aren't going good, you never seem to see hide or hair of the man.

If folks weren't so busy slamming the guy and claiming that everyone is out to steal from the maybe they would have a chance to see what he has done.   You can't just look at how much money he gives to the .  You also have to look at how he lobbies to get more funds for the . The more federal funding we receive, the less of a burden that is on New York taxpayers.  This link is a good example:

 

http://web.mta.info/sandy/funding_support.htm

 

For the record, Cuomo doesn't just work for NYC. He represents all of New York, and he has to act in the interests of the entire state.  I think some people seem to forget that and like to pin all governors against NYC.  

[bobtehpanda]

Oh please with the slamming of Cuomo.  While he isn't an angel by any means, he has certainly done his part to keep mass transit on the up and up in this city, more than most governors have done, that's for sure. I would probably vote for him before Astorino, even though I tend to lean Republican because Cuomo has done a good job overall.

 

During his governorship, we've seen multiple MTA budget raids, partial replacement of the payroll tax with a less stable funding measure, an outright refusal to sign any lockbox bill past his desk, and the scuttling of transit on the Tappan Zee Bridge project, with all associated documents pulled off the internet and taken out of public viewing.

 

In fact, he's stealing money from the Clean Water Fund to fund the new Tappan Zee, even though the bridge isn't a waterworks project, and the city has billions in unmet needs for the Third Water Tunnel, more waste treatment plants, cleaning up the Gowanus Superfund site, etc. Due to a lack of credible opposition he's the best option we've got (Astorino really needs to raise his public profile), but he is certainly not progressive about transit.

If folks weren't so busy slamming the guy and claiming that everyone is out to steal from the maybe they would have a chance to see what he has done.   You can't just look at how much money he gives to the .  You also have to look at how he lobbies to get more funds for the . The more federal funding we receive, the less of a burden that is on New York taxpayers.  This link is a good example:

 

http://web.mta.info/sandy/funding_support.htm

 

For the record, Cuomo doesn't just work for NYC. He represents all of New York, and he has to act in the interests of the entire state.  I think some people seem to forget that and like to pin all governors against NYC.  

 

Federal funding from the FTA is generally done using set criteria and formulas, not lobbying. How much Cuomo actually helped is up for debate.

[realizm]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly has Cuomo actually done for Transit? He takes the credit for everything good that happens, like the service restorations after Sandy or more recently, the LIRR contract negotiations after the contract was settled, even though he was adamant about not getting involved until the "final seconds" so to speak. But when things aren't going good, you never seem to see hide or hair of the man.

 

And hes pushing for the MNRR Penn Station Access project which the MTA already was planning for a period of time. Basically for political gains. Meanwhile the LIRR ESA project is like a decade behind.

 

So now the CPOC has to update the FEIS study to include Phase 2 with the Bronx Spur provision. They must have figured out how to bank on real estate taxes for revenue to get it started. Looking forward to the updated FEIS and/or  CPOC Board meeting materials that will reflect this news.

[Lance]

If folks weren't so busy slamming the guy and claiming that everyone is out to steal from the maybe they would have a chance to see what he has done.   You can't just look at how much money he gives to the .  You also have to look at how he lobbies to get more funds for the . The more federal funding we receive, the less of a burden that is on New York taxpayers.  This link is a good example:

 

http://web.mta.info/sandy/funding_support.htm

 

For the record, Cuomo doesn't just work for NYC. He represents all of New York, and he has to act in the interests of the entire state.  I think some people seem to forget that and like to pin all governors against NYC.  

I don't know if I would've used Sandy recovery funding as an example of lobbying for mass transit funds. Given the sheer amount of devastation the hurricane caused in the NYC area, it was probably just a matter of asking for money to rebuild and the feds saying okay. Besides, that's what FEMA is there for, so the state taxpayers don't have to pay through the nose for things like natural disasters. Let's not make it like he was really doing anything other than what he's supposed to do following a natural disaster, which is get money from the federal government to pay for the damages.

 

Regarding the funding, maybe just as important as getting Second Avenue to 125th Street is getting enough money to modernize the rapidly aging infrastructure.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't know if I would've used Sandy recovery funding as an example of lobbying for mass transit funds. Given the sheer amount of devastation the hurricane caused in the NYC area, it was probably just a matter of asking for money to rebuild and the feds saying okay. Besides, that's what FEMA is there for, so the state taxpayers don't have to pay through the nose for things like natural disasters. Let's not make it like he was really doing anything other than what he's supposed to do following a natural disaster, which is get money from the federal government to pay for the damages.

 

Regarding the funding, maybe just as important as getting Second Avenue to 125th Street is getting enough money to modernize the rapidly aging infrastructure.

 

 

During his governorship, we've seen multiple MTA budget raids, partial replacement of the payroll tax with a less stable funding measure, an outright refusal to sign any lockbox bill past his desk, and the scuttling of transit on the Tappan Zee Bridge project, with all associated documents pulled off the internet and taken out of public viewing.

 

In fact, he's stealing money from the Clean Water Fund to fund the new Tappan Zee, even though the bridge isn't a waterworks project, and the city has billions in unmet needs for the Third Water Tunnel, more waste treatment plants, cleaning up the Gowanus Superfund site, etc. Due to a lack of credible opposition he's the best option we've got (Astorino really needs to raise his public profile), but he is certainly not progressive about transit.

 

 

Federal funding from the FTA is generally done using set criteria and formulas, not lobbying. How much Cuomo actually helped is up for debate.

I would argue that after Hurricane Sandy, it was extremely important that we had someone lobbying for New York City to ensure that we received as much federal funding as possible.  While you can argue about formulas, or whatever for federal funding, the fact of the matter is when local leaders have spoken up for their affected area, they have generally been given far less for rebuilding.  Sure, it wasn't funding that he gave directly, but the rebuilding after the hurricane was extremely vital to our transportation system and to our local economy and Cuomo played a part in that, whether you want to admit or not. Cuomo has a difficult job in trying to not look as if he is appeasing Upstate too much while trying to strike a respectable balance with NYC voters.  While I would prefer to vote for Astorino, quite frankly if you think Cuomo is bad, Astorino won't be much better.  I don't want to paint Cuomo as a saint, but he's done much better than previous governors and he understands the importance of keeping tax rates at reasonable levels to encourage economic growth and attract businesses here.  For what it's worth the suffers during economic downturns and he's done a good job at helping directly and indirectly to help the remain stable while trying to come out of what was a tough recession and now what is currently weak economic growth.

[R10 2952]

Cuomo doesn't care about transit, but then again, no New York governor has really tried to adequately fund transit since Hugh Carey.  That was thirty-five years ago.  Cuomo is a dishonest machine politician, and I really do hope that the U.S. Attorney's investigation into his BS-land commission leads to his eventual impeachment.

[Fan Railer]

1.5 billion... now it's a shame that the article isn't clear on whether this is just for the environmental study, also for the engineering and construction process as well. Regardless, the cost is going to be greater than that at the end of the day. ESA alone is climbing upwards of 10-11 billion at this point (for the entire project), which is obviously WAY over original budget estimations, and for a number of specific reasons.

[Fan Railer]

More details:

 

 

Prendergast on Thursday stated his request before a New York State Assembly hearing in Albany, N.Y. MTA is seeking at least $1.5 billion to be included in the MTA's five-year capital program. That amount at best would cover a relatively small portion of the project's cost, earlier estimated at $3.5 billion and now projected by some to cost $4.5 billion. MTA almost certainly would seek federal funding assistance to cover at least some of the remaining cost. - http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/rapid-transit/mta-second-avenue-subway-second-phase-please.html?channel=62

[realizm]

This is sort of misleading but I get it. The article in the opening post states some of the same specifics though worded in a different context. According to the Daily News the MTA wishes to allocating $1.5 billion in its 2015-2019 capital program for environmental study, design and finally tunneling.

 

So that means the 1.5 billion dollars is specifically for the FEIS, which has to be updated. That's the minimum the MTA is asking for. The entire cost of phase 2 is projected to be at a cost of 4.5 billion dollars total. Environmental study, design and construction. 

[Lance]

Two words: Daily News.

 

@Fan Railer: Thanks for finding that article as it does clear up some of the vagueness posted in the DN article. It is a bit troubling that it's likely to take another decade to get the line up to Lexington Ave and 125th Street. How much time and money does it take to do these studies and design three stations?

 

@Via G: I'm well aware of the job Cuomo has as governor of New York, which is take care of the entire state. It's not a difficult concept to understand. Part of that job is to maintain the state-run MTA and I'm not saying he hasn't done that. I'm simply saying he hasn't done anything besides that in terms of improvements and the like.

[realizm]

I'm wondering if they will actually build Phase 2 with a provision for a Bronx spur? That will send the T eventually to the outer boroughs. I'm sure they have to include this in the new environmental study:

 

[CenSin]

I'm wondering if they will actually build Phase 2 with a provision for a Bronx spur? That will send the T eventually to the outer boroughs. I'm sure they have to include this in the new environmental study:

 

Not building the spur would be the MTA's worst mistake in the future. I'm sure the MTA will find every possible way to include it. Imagine if the MTA does not do it… The inevitable development of the Bronx and the population boom there will force the MTA to either shoehorn a connection into the already-built Second Avenue line or build a whole new trunk line down Manhattan just for the Bronx because the Second Avenue line can't be fixed. It would be comparable to the building of the Verrazano–Narrows Bridge in such a way that the Fourth Avenue line could not be extended to Staten Island by bridge.

[realizm]

*FOAM*

 

Man I am seriously wondering now that the MTA shelved plans for a T route using the outer tracks of the MNRR Harlem Line to the WPR decades ago how the MTA will plan out the new Bronx route? Tunnel? Via 3rd Avenue?

[Culver]

Oh please with the slamming of Cuomo.  While he isn't an angel by any means, he has certainly done his part to keep mass transit on the up and up in this city, more than most governors have done, that's for sure. I would probably vote for him before Astorino, even though I tend to lean Republican because Cuomo has done a good job overall.

 

You realize Cuomo continually trying to drown the MTA in a bathtub will eventually lead to express bus service cuts, right? I mean I know you love him now cause he's a tea party douchebag who muscled his way into a takeover of the state Democratic party, but his teabagging politics are gonna come back around, and you're not going to like the outcome.