How does the MTA calculate bus ridership?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I believe this has been discussed before but I don't think it's been talked about in detail.  I would like to know the following:

 

What constitutes an actual rider?

 

For example, is someone with a pass counted the same way as someone who who pays the actual fare? What about seniors and disabled people? 

 

How is the average weekday and weekend ridership composed?

[NYSubwayBuff]

IMO they look at the fare box statistics aka how many swipes during a period of time and seniors carry the same weight as regular passengers because it's still a person taking up room

[w8Hou]

They use multiple sources: passenger counters, farebox readers, traffic checkers.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was under the impression that someone who has a pass isn't counted the same way, or at least another member on here gave me that impression.  I mean some days, I use my pass and take at least 6 - 7 trips on the express bus.  My dipping history could be something like the one below:

 

BxM1 or BxM2 Southbound

BxM4 Northbound

BxM4 Southbound

BxM4 Northbound

BxM4 Southbound

BxM1 or BxM2 Northbound

 

My thinking is that I would be a passenger and would be counted 6 times or is that not the case?

[bobtehpanda]

I was under the impression that someone who has a pass isn't counted the same way, or at least another member on here gave me that impression.  I mean some days, I use my pass and take at least 6 - 7 trips on the express bus.  My dipping history could be something like the one below:

 

BxM1 or BxM2 Southbound

BxM4 Northbound

BxM4 Southbound

BxM4 Northbound

BxM4 Southbound

BxM1 or BxM2 Northbound

 

My thinking is that I would be a passenger and would be counted 6 times or is that not the case?

 

You would be counted six times.

[NewFlyer 230]

They look at the amount of people who used the route each day and then they average it all together to get an estimate. Students with student metro cards count in the ridership. I just wish buses would come on time and not always be late because that really hurts ridership. I noticed that on the Q17 the number keep dropping due to reliability issue.

[S78 via Hylan]

^^^ You have to understand that it's not always the operator's fault that buses are late as there are many factors that contribute such as heavy traffic, heavy ridership and many more. At the end of the day, they work hard to bring passengers to their destinations.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I believe this has been discussed before but I don't think it's been talked about in detail.  I would like to know the following:

 

What constitutes an actual rider?

 

For example, is someone with a pass counted the same way as someone who who pays the actual fare? What about seniors and disabled people? 

 

How is the average weekday and weekend ridership composed?

 

A body on the bus is a body on the bus no matter what fare (if any) was paid.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A body on the bus is a body on the bus no matter what fare (if any) was paid.

That's news to me... Why is bus service cut on lines with high fare beating then?

^^^ You have to understand that it's not always the operator's fault that buses are late as there are many factors that contribute such as heavy traffic, heavy ridership and many more. At the end of the day, they work hard to bring passengers to their destinations.

lol... You mean some of them work hard.  Some of them however don't...

 

They use multiple sources: passenger counters, farebox readers, traffic checkers.

As for the passenger counters, those are sometimes posted on the buses but sometimes they are posted at random stops.  What's the deal with that?

[bobtehpanda]

That's news to me... Why is bus service cut on lines with high fare beating then?

lol... You mean some of them work hard.  Some of them however don't...

 

As for the passenger counters, those are sometimes posted on the buses but sometimes they are posted at random stops.  What's the deal with that?

 

Bus ridership as a whole has been falling for several years straight (and I believe this year was actually the first that that wasn't the case, but the rise was still something under 1%), so that could be why (as well as things like shifting around buses, etc.)

 

They do the same thing at the subway, to check crowding at various points along a route; fares paid doesn't tell you how many people are actually on a bus at any given time, since we have no idea when those people get off the bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bus ridership as a whole has been falling for several years straight (and I believe this year was actually the first that that wasn't the case, but the rise was still something under 1%), so that could be why (as well as things like shifting around buses, etc.)

 

They do the same thing at the subway, to check crowding at various points along a route; fares paid doesn't tell you how many people are actually on a bus at any given time, since we have no idea when those people get off the bus.

Bus ridership is only "falling" because farebeating is on the rise.  When you have routes where over half of the bus isn't paying that's a problem.  You can only keep stats on the people farebeating if the B/O is actively counting AND can see who is farebeating and hits the F5 button, otherwise the only time that they are keeping tabs on those folks is when they have checkers.

[bobtehpanda]

Bus ridership is only "falling" because farebeating is on the rise.  When you have routes where over half of the bus isn't paying that's a problem.  You can only keep stats on the people farebeating if the B/O is actively counting AND can see who is farebeating and hits the F5 button, otherwise the only time that they are keeping tabs on those folks is when they have checkers.

 

If farebeating was the main culprit, we wouldn't see across the board 3-5% ridership drops every year. On some routes, that may have been the case, but the recession/crap recovery have also been playing a factor, as well as the fact that average bus system speeds keep dropping.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If farebeating was the main culprit, we wouldn't see across the board 3-5% ridership drops every year. On some routes, that may have been the case, but the recession/crap recovery have also been playing a factor, as well as the fact that average bus system speeds keep dropping.

Actually I don't think that's the case...

[bobtehpanda]

Actually I don't think that's the case...

 

From 2008-2012, ridership on NYCT services fell by about 10%, with 3% drops every year until it bottomed out in 2012.

[qjtransitmaster]

Lol at rank 26&27

[Via Garibaldi 8]

From 2008-2012, ridership on NYCT services fell by about 10%, with 3% drops every year until it bottomed out in 2012.

It's funny how you note that it's only NYCT services because you can't make that argument for Bus services.  2008 was when the recession hit and then you had MASSIVE service cuts in 2012, which you clearly didn't factor in.  There was also a lot of farebeating on lines during that time too, which even the admits they didn't keep track of, but the figures are quite substantial.  They also admitted that because of the recession AND the service cuts that people were taking less discretionary trips.  Then if you factor in how much farebeating attributed to the numbers, those fluctuations are minimal at best.

 

What you also have to think about is that the has been trying to "encourage" ridership by doing more with less.  In other words, creating BusTime for example allows passengers to track where their bus is, which then allows the to try to run less service where possible on the premise that riders can tolerate hourly service because they'll know where their bus is.  It's also interesting to note that Sunday ridership continues to grow despite the lack of service overall that the is providing.  They need to start improving Sunday service across the board.  I think they're under the impression that folks don't need Sunday service, but people are out and about ALL of the time in NYC.

[bobtehpanda]

It's funny how you note that it's only NYCT services because you can't make that argument for Bus services.  2008 was when the recession hit and then you had MASSIVE service cuts in 2012, which you clearly didn't factor in.  There was also a lot of farebeating on lines during that time too, which even the admits they didn't keep track of, but the figures are quite substantial.  They also admitted that because of the recession AND the service cuts that people were taking less discretionary trips.  Then if you factor in how much farebeating attributed to the numbers, those fluctuations are minimal at best.

 

What you also have to think about is that the has been trying to "encourage" ridership by doing more with less.  In other words, creating BusTime for example allows passengers to track where their bus is, which then allows the to try to run less service where possible on the premise that riders can tolerate hourly service because they'll know where their bus is.  It's also interesting to note that Sunday ridership continues to grow despite the lack of service overall that the is providing.  They need to start improving Sunday service across the board.  I think they're under the impression that folks don't need Sunday service, but people are out and about ALL of the time in NYC.

 

MTAB is not a super great comparison, since when MTAB started out it was a massive s***show compared to NYCT, and they've still got quite a lot of work to do before MTAB becomes as good as the rest of the system. MTAB's gains were also not really enough to stem NYCT's losses.

 

Most MTA ridership gains have been from the off-peak period in recent years, so it's not like they don't know that Sunday service isn't important. It's probably more expensive to provide in comparison to more midday or Saturday service though, since MTA doesn't hire part-time for the majority of its workforce, and you'd need to pay a full eight hour shift or overtime to provide extra amounts of Sunday service (never mind trying to find people who want to work Sundays)

[NYSubwayBuff]

whether or not the ridership rose this year it wont matter because fares are supposed to rise next year and poster for publoc hearing have gone out on local and express buses. They say they are considering raising the far 25cents on local and 50cents on express bus with unlimited cards also rising. Ridership will surely fall especially on express buses if the fare is that high

[Via Garibaldi 8]

whether or not the ridership rose this year it wont matter because fares are supposed to rise next year and poster for publoc hearing have gone out on local and express buses. They say they are considering raising the far 25cents on local and 50cents on express bus with unlimited cards also rising. Ridership will surely fall especially on express buses if the fare is that high

I'm not concerned about that.  Nevertheless, $6.50 is more than reasonable for the express bus.  The express bus Metro-North and LIRR are marketed for upper middle class commuters anyway so upper middle class areas will be just fine in terms of ridership.  The areas with express bus service that are generally poor is another story though.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm not concerned about that.  Nevertheless, $6.50 is more than reasonable for the express bus.  The express bus Metro-North and LIRR are marketed for upper middle class commuters anyway so upper middle class areas will be just fine in terms of ridership.  The areas with express bus service that are generally poor is another story though.

that is a narrow view express buses are meant to link outer parts of the city to Manhattan and the main subway network.

[NewFlyer 230]

I'm not concerned about that. Nevertheless, $6.50 is more than reasonable for the express bus. The express bus Metro-North and LIRR are marketed for upper middle class commuters anyway so upper middle class areas will be just fine in terms of ridership. The areas with express bus service that are generally poor is another story though.

Yeah some like the X64 and QM18 are doing poorly as it is.

What I think contributes to the decline of ridership is the reliablity of routes itself. When you have a bus no show up for 20 or more minutes and it's the rush hour it discourages people from taking that route in the first place. Nobody wants to fit in a crowded bus as it is and therefore people car pool and use other modes of transportation. If the MTA actually set up buses where they are need maybe ridership on certain routes wouldn't be dropping

[Via Garibaldi 8]

that is a narrow view express buses are meant to link outer parts of the city to Manhattan and the main subway network.

If no one could afford the premium fare then there wouldn't be express buses, so there is nothing narrow minded about it.

[FamousNYLover]

Does it also counts for all MetroCard fare on MTA Farebox on Academy Bus, Bee-Line or NICE Bus?

[NYSubwayBuff]

second ave sagas said they either wont raise the fare or will make thw bonus bigger and If ur using metrocard the fare is about the same as it is now considering the fact that you get a bonus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

second ave sagas said they either wont raise the fare or will make thw bonus bigger and If ur using metrocard the fare is about the same as it is now considering the fact that you get a bonus

The is throwing around a few proposals at the moment, and is looking to the riding public to see which one they prefer most.