cdi919 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #26 Posted January 25, 2010 the cant even get the second ave subway done and you want them to build a 5 mile tube. keep dreaming. even if they did build it, it would probably take at least 20 years to complete. plus to maintain such a tube would be too costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted January 25, 2010 Share #27 Posted January 25, 2010 The R/W line is directly in the path of the E, you can't extend the E any further. As for the Manhattan-SI tunnel, that's 5 miles long and SI doesn't even have the population to justify such a long and very expensive tunnel.If SI is to be connected somewhere, it should be Brooklyn. But the SIRT should be the one to run to Brooklyn with a platform transfer to the subway. Current subway headways can't support the added length. But an SIRT line can. What you'd connect it to in Manhattan would simply be the Second Ave. line at Hanover Sq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #28 Posted January 25, 2010 the cant even get the second ave subway done and you want them to build a 5 mile tube. keep dreaming. even if they did build it, it would probably take at least 20 years to complete. plus to maintain such a tube would be too costly.What the heck these people want,a english channel tube? Heck if the europeans can do it we can too,but the(MTA) is too broke for that,They cant even take gum off of the bus seats without going over budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted January 25, 2010 Share #29 Posted January 25, 2010 I'm happy about this. It's about time SI gets another easy connection to another borough. I think a tunnel from SI to South Ferry would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong96 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #30 Posted January 25, 2010 Forgetting the costs of building a tunnel from Brooklyn to Staten Island (Manhattan might be easier, I don't know), I'd love to ride a train to Staten Island straight from one of the other boroughs. It would save me time waiting for the ferry and then waiting at St. George.....B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted January 25, 2010 Share #31 Posted January 25, 2010 Same here, since I ride the ferry almost every day. I mean which is faster and better: A 25-minute boat ride or a 3-5 subway ride from St. George to South Ferry? B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 25, 2010 Share #32 Posted January 25, 2010 Guys there is a difference between a PLAN and an IDEA. This is not a plan, this is not going to happen. This is just an a-hole with a website worthy of an all-time bad timing award with an IDEA. This won't happen and there are a million reasons it's not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmech Posted January 25, 2010 Share #33 Posted January 25, 2010 I think the ferry works great for SI-Manhattan traffic, but it would be quite useful to have an SI-Brooklyn tunnel. Besides we all know the Manhattan-SI tunnel would get timered to hell and back so you'd be crawling along at 20 mph - only 8 mph faster than the ferry B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share #34 Posted January 25, 2010 Guys there is a difference between a PLAN and an IDEA. This is not a plan, this is not going to happen. This is just an a-hole with a website worthy of an all-time bad timing award with an IDEA. This won't happen and there are a million reasons it's not realistic. Oh the IRONY.... Is it absolutely necessary that you retort with such half ass remarks? Do you have a better idea as to what can be done to improve transit within the area? I really think you should sit and think awhile before you post. Cut the rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 25, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 25, 2010 Oh the IRONY....Is it absolutely necessary that you retort with such half ass remarks? Do you have a better idea as to what can be done to improve transit within the area? I really think you should sit and think awhile before you post. Cut the rhetoric. I think you need to take a step back and see what I'm really saying because I think you are misinterpreting what I wrote. How many stupid "idea" threads make their way on here, and the only thing people consider is "I would like it if?" or "It would benefit so and so?" And no one is willing to answer who is willing to pay for it? Yeah, I got a great idea too. It would be a great idea if every city block had a 4 track subway underneath it and the trains ran every three minutes...that would be really convenient for city residents. But it's not going to happen so I'm not going to propose it, and if someone else proposes it, because it is unreasonable and not going to happen I'm not going to sit here like a lemming and blindly support the impossible. And this SI thing is an old idea. This is a plan that dates back to the Dual Contracts era. Seems we don't get any new ideas to discuss, just the same rehashing of old ideas. And when circumstances change that allow a service change that many want to happen (such as the M/V combo) now that they're done fighting over imaginary tunnel configurations and the like, then they fight over what to call the route, what color the bullet should be, and what equipment should run on it. Seems there are no intelligent discussions or understanding of context and logic when it comes to service changes, just the same old ideas and a lot of people "who think that they should _____" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted January 25, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 25, 2010 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 25, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 25, 2010 Well, I do have to agree with lrg5748's comment because you need to think twice... Oh please AWWANG you of everyone needs to think twice. I bet you're real quick to jump on the bandwagon now. Yet every time something comes up that is noteworthy, you are the one posting your unwanted opinions, stating them as fact, and confusing posters who have no idea how unreliable your "information" is. If I had a dime for every time you posted wrong information, I'd never have to work a day in my life. Yet you seem to be incapable of learning from your mistakes, like many people do, because you have been posting for over a year and it has been more of the same. However instead of thinking before you post, and posting correct information, and learning things, you are perfectly content to butt into things which are not your business and continue posting misinformation. and FYI lrg was talking to ME, not to YOU so mind your own business and stick your nose back where it belongs. And also FYI, the idea of a tunnel to Staten Island has been long proposed. It dates all the way back to the Dual Contracts, but has never been completed. It's not a new idea, and perhaps there's a reason why it has never been attempted, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #38 Posted January 25, 2010 Nothing is impossible if you really.....put your mind to it. It's about time in our decade that a group of people shouted whats on their minds to about a subway to Staten to the point it reached the newspaper. This facebook group could make history in the NYC Subway and to Staten Island itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share #39 Posted January 25, 2010 I think you need to take a step back. How many stupid "idea" threads make their way on here, and the only thing people consider is "I would like it if?" or "It would benefit so and so?" And no one is willing to answer who is willing to pay for it? Yeah, I got a great idea too. It would be a great idea if every city block had a 4 track subway underneath it and the trains ran every three minutes...that would be really convenient for city residents. But it's not going to happen so I'm not going to propose it, and if someone else proposes it, because it is unreasonable and not going to happen I'm not going to sit here like a lemming and blindly support the impossible. Why do I need to take a step back? You constantly go off a tangent every single time you hear about something that you don't like, while I agree with some things you say, if I need to step in and give my POV I will do so. And let's not be so cocky with "four track" lines under e every single street, be reasonable. Do you commute to and from Staten Island? I do. I just don't railfan the area, I will now have to travel for 1.5 to 2 hours to school and from school four times a week now. If you're just criticizing as a railfan instead of an actual commuter then you're missing the big picture. I could give a crap less when it comes to railfanning or busfanning the area if it means I have to get to S.I. As a commuter, it makes a very big difference? Why do the residents have to resort to spending $5.50 for express bus service which becomes virtually inadequate during the height of the rush hour? If not using express buses, why do residents have to resort to board a ferry to get to the rest of the city and literally fight to get themselves onto a train that's virtually crowded as hell? If there is room for improvement, then without a doubt something shouldn't be done about it. I understand it no longer takes a year to build a subway line or station; times have changed as so have labor laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 25, 2010 Share #40 Posted January 25, 2010 Nothing is impossible if you really.....put your mind to it. It's about time in our decade that a group of people shouted whats on their minds to about a subway to Staten to the point it reached the newspaper. This facebook group could make history in the NYC Subway and to Staten Island itself. Look, I understand your optimism, but you are talking about a project that will literally cost billions of dollars. This city is hurting and cutting vital services, such as police, fire, and teachers. The state is bankrupt and cutting aid to the city, which further forces the city to cut vital services. The MTA has it's own sets of problems, never mind that every project they attempt winds up costing more than originally planned because of "overruns" with contractors. The federal government is bankrupt, and any federal aid would likely be used to prevent further cuts. Going to the newspaper does not create money for this sort of project. Going to the newspapers doesn't do anything except get more lemmings on board who will say or do nothing other than "hey that's a good idea, someone else should pay for it!" How do you explain a multi billion dollar transportation expansion when other areas are losing service, when cops, firefighters, and other vital city services may be getting laid off, and when every level of government is financially unstable? Do we raise taxes on the already overburdened citizens? How do you sell this idea to them? Because that's what's required to make something like this happen, and it won't be for a very, very long time. Are you ready to increase your own taxes by a huge amount, just so a simple two track tunnel that does little to ease congestion can be ready 20 years from now after years of delays? Because that is how things would really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted January 25, 2010 Share #41 Posted January 25, 2010 An immersed tunnel costs less than an undersea bored tunnel. The 63rd Street tunnel was built that way. Yea, at that tunnel leaks alot. It's not worth the money to connect to that island. If you don't want to pay $11, take the ferry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmech Posted January 25, 2010 Share #42 Posted January 25, 2010 If what you want is a subway connection to SI, what you want is a connection to Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 25, 2010 Share #43 Posted January 25, 2010 Why do I need to take a step back? You constantly go off a tangent every single time you hear about something that you don't like, while I agree with some things you say, if I need to step in and give my POV I will do so. And let's not be so cocky with "four track" lines under e every single street, be reasonable. Do you commute to and from Staten Island? I do. I just don't railfan the area, I will now have to travel for 1.5 to 2 hours to school and from school four times a week now. If you're just criticizing as a railfan instead of an actual commuter then you're missing the big picture. I could give a crap less when it comes to railfanning or busfanning the area if it means I have to get to S.I. As a commuter, it makes a very big difference? Why do the residents have to resort to spending $5.50 for express bus service which becomes virtually inadequate during the height of the rush hour? If not using express buses, why do residents have to resort to board a ferry to get to the rest of the city and literally fight to get themselves onto a train that's virtually crowded as hell? If there is room for improvement, then without a doubt something shouldn't be done about it. I understand it no longer takes a year to build a subway line or station; times have changed as so have labor laws. I very much understand the difficulties of commuting to and from Staten Island. But those difficulties have been around for years, they are nothing new, and they are part of that which must be considered by people who choose to live, work, go to school in, or volunteer in the area. Yes, it is inefficient but we live in an imperfect world. There will always be room for improvement, but that doesn't mean there is money for improvement. In rural areas, I'm sure many people would desire some kind of public transportation but it doesn't make sense in those areas to implement. Look I did my college time in Providence Rhode Island. No subways, no commuter rail except to Boston (can't get to Hartford, New Haven, or even New London unless you want to pay up for Amtrak). Bus service, but it stopped around 11pm on weeknights, 1am Sunday morning for Saturday, and 7pm on Sunday. And it ran just about every 40-50 minutes. However, while that wasn't a great system, and while Providence is a major city, complaining would have gotten me nowhere. Yes, it could be better, but if there is no money for it to be better, then it has to wait. The distinction I am trying to make between plans and ideas is many people here assume that once something appears in a newspaper of any kind, it is stone cold fact. Someone writes a news article that "5 people make a website devoted to the ___ subway expansion" and the responses come back on here "I'm glad the MTA is finally considering this" Personally I see no money in the present or immediate future for this. But it's not a terrible idea, they just need to do it right. It makes no sense to simply extend the to SI because the R doesn't run frequently enough, that line will quickly be at capacity, it hurts 4th Ave local riders who now have to cram onto packed trains, and it does relatively little to ease congestion leaving SI in the first place, so many will still take the ferry. And even that simple addition would cost billions, while not really improving service much for anyone. Likewise it makes no sense to extend the either for similar reasons, plus if you are going to extend any train to SI it better be at least 60 feet long and two train services would be desirable. Extend both? Maybe now you have the beginnings of something, but you still lack the funding. Likewise many people just want to "Connect it to SIR" despite the fact that SIR is FRA regulated and NYCT is not. NYCT surely would not go for that. However, most people here don't look at it that way or take the extra step to think critically. It's just assumed that if a tunnel is built, everything will work itself out. In other words, the same mentality behind the extension...just build the tunnel to Javits, everything else will be fine. Well what about the people living in Clinton who don't get a stop at 10th/40th St? These are important details when designing a new service pattern and people just overlook them because an idea sounds nice. Times always change, and people always have to adapt, but saying that expanding service is similar to changing a law is simplly not true because it takes a lot less money to change a law than it does to build something. The line I draw is that SI has always been "disconnected." I'm certainly not saying it should always be that way, I'm just saying people have no right to complain about the status quo because they knew what they were getting into. They very much have the right to advocate for improvements, but there needs to be a reality check there particularly when it comes to government finance and who would pay for improvements. So the money's not there, and the idea hasn't been fully thought out. What's to support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #44 Posted January 25, 2010 Some say's "they can take the ferry, the ferry this, the ferry that" Here's my thing. What would people do or what option is there for the people to get to Manhattan in the event that something bad happens on the ferry and it closes down for a while or even on the Verrazono Bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted January 25, 2010 Share #45 Posted January 25, 2010 Some say's "they can take the ferry, the ferry this, the ferry that" Here's my thing. What would people do or what option is there for the people to get to Manhattan in the event that something bad happens on the ferry and it closes down for a while or even on the Verrazono Bridge You mean something like a terror threat? Guess what, if it was a big deal enough to close the ferry and the bridge, the subway to SI would be closed. People who live on SI knew that they were getting when the moved there, this is nothing new an I don't think there will ever be a subway line to SI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #46 Posted January 25, 2010 Is North Shore rail still in planning stages....cause if so, they mine as well should combine the North Shore Line and a *new BK-Staten subway tunnel from St. George-68th St into one project You mean something like a terror threat? Guess what, if it was a big deal enough to close the ferry and the bridge, the subway to SI would be closed. People who live on SI knew that they were getting when the moved there, this is nothing new an I don't think there will ever be a subway line to SI. Wow....aint that some BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmech Posted January 25, 2010 Share #47 Posted January 25, 2010 I very much understand the difficulties of commuting to and from Staten Island. But those difficulties have been around for years, they are nothing new, and they are part of that which must be considered by people who choose to live, work, go to school in, or volunteer in the area. Yes, it is inefficient but we live in an imperfect world. There will always be room for improvement, but that doesn't mean there is money for improvement. In rural areas, I'm sure many people would desire some kind of public transportation but it doesn't make sense in thos:eek:e areas to implement. Look I did my college time in Providence Rhode Island. No subways, no commuter rail except to Boston (can't get to Hartford, New Haven, or even New London unless you want to pay up for Amtrak). Bus service, but it stopped around 11pm on weeknights, 1am Sunday morning for Saturday, and 7pm on Sunday. And it ran just about every 40-50 minutes. However, while that wasn't a great system, and while Providence is a major city, complaining would have gotten me nowhere. Yes, it could be better, but if there is no money for it to be better, then it has to wait. The distinction I am trying to make between plans and ideas is many people here assume that once something appears in a newspaper of any kind, it is stone cold fact. Someone writes a news article that "5 people make a website devoted to the ___ subway expansion" and the responses come back on here "I'm glad the MTA is finally considering this" Personally I see no money in the present or immediate future for this. But it's not a terrible idea, they just need to do it right. It makes no sense to simply extend the to SI because the R doesn't run frequently enough, that line will quickly be at capacity, it hurts 4th Ave local riders who now have to cram onto packed trains, and it does relatively little to ease congestion leaving SI in the first place, so many will still take the ferry. And even that simple addition would cost billions, while not really improving service much for anyone. Likewise it makes no sense to extend the either for similar reasons, plus if you are going to extend any train to SI it better be at least 60 feet long and two train services would be desirable. Extend both? Maybe now you have the beginnings of something, but you still lack the funding. Likewise many people just want to "Connect it to SIR" despite the fact that SIR is FRA regulated and NYCT is not. NYCT surely would not go for that. However, most people here don't look at it that way or take the extra step to think critically. It's just assumed that if a tunnel is built, everything will work itself out. In other words, the same mentality behind the extension...just build the tunnel to Javits, everything else will be fine. Well what about the people living in Clinton who don't get a stop at 10th/40th St? These are important details when designing a new service pattern and people just overlook them because an idea sounds nice. Times always change, and people always have to adapt, but saying that expanding service is similar to changing a law is simplly not true because it takes a lot less money to change a law than it does to build something. The line I draw is that SI has always been "disconnected." I'm certainly not saying it should always be that way, I'm just saying people have no right to complain about the status quo because they knew what they were getting into. They very much have the right to advocate for improvements, but there needs to be a reality check there particularly when it comes to government finance and who would pay for improvements. So the money's not there, and the idea hasn't been fully thought out. What's to support? IT makes sense to extend the because the was built with the hope of extending to SI some day. The BMT Fourth Avenue Line isn't even finished, it was meant to end at 101st street, not 95th street as it is now. And at that point it would be a mere few hundred feet from the Narrows. Look at this map, A is the current end of the at 95th, B is the proper end at 101st, and you can see how it's right across the Narrows. Connecting to any other line would be a waste: And the 4th Avenue line is 4 tracks ready, most of the current stations south of where the branches off are only the eastern or western halves of 4 track wide station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted January 25, 2010 Share #48 Posted January 25, 2010 Wow....aint that some BS Explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted January 25, 2010 Share #49 Posted January 25, 2010 Explain.What is there to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted January 25, 2010 Share #50 Posted January 25, 2010 What is there to explain? Explain why you think my post before is BS, unless you really have no opinion and like to run your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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