Idea: The Abandoned LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch

[metsfan]

Build it, but let the locals decide what gets built. I vote (even though since i'm not in LI anymore so it wouldn't count ) LIRR short train peak hour shuttle, minima weekend service. Expand service if demand calls for it. Terminate service at woodside or GCT. No NYP service. Maybe even add a station to allow people to go from jammin jamaica or NYP to the shuttle.

 

- A

[Joe]

The LIRR won't do it. They don't like the Zone 1 and 3 stations that they have now; much less a reincarnation of the Rego Park station.

[R110B]

thats why they should make use of it as an subway.

[MTR Admiralty]

Build it, but let the locals decide what gets built. I vote (even though since i'm not in LI anymore so it wouldn't count ) LIRR short train peak hour shuttle, minima weekend service. Expand service if demand calls for it. Terminate service at woodside or GCT. No NYP service. Maybe even add a station to allow people to go from jammin jamaica or NYP to the shuttle.

 

- A

As we said earlier, if they have a choice, they would most likely choose subway. The subway charges a base fare of $2 (at the present) and free transfers would allow one to connect with other areas. Now look at the LIRR fare, regardless what it is, or which zone it will fall in, it will nevertheless, be more pricier than a one-way subway fare. Also, customers in that area could not connect with Lower Manhattan specifically, on a one seat ride. They must have to transfer to a subway at a certain point. While the LIRR is fast, its intramural coverage, on average, is far limited, compared to the subway.

[R110B]

exactly they should choose subway.

[Maserati7200]

Noobish question, whats a NIMBY?

[7LineFan]

Noobish question, whats a NIMBY?

 

Stands for Not In My BackYard. People who don't want public works like subways or whatnot near their homes.

[MTR Admiralty]

Noobish question, whats a NIMBY?

Not In My Backyard, opponents of urban progress, in general.

[metsfan]

Not In My Backyard, opponents of urban progress, in general.

 

More like 60% of the time. Remember what happened to old penn station? :cry:

 

- A

[Maserati7200]

Remember what happened to old penn station? :cry:

 

- A

 

:mad::tdown:

[INDman]

Isn't the Rockaway Branch owned by the city? I had thought that the LIRR sold the whole thing from White Pot Junction to the Rock to NYCTA which at the time was owned by the city.

[R110B]

Isn't the Rockaway Branch owned by the city? I had thought that the LIRR sold the whole thing from White Pot Junction to the Rock to NYCTA which at the time was owned by the city.

well if they did they should have done something with it.

[INDman]

There has been in the past, a plan to use it for subway service. That is why one of the stations on the Queens Blvd line has an old IND mosaic that mentions Rockway service. If I remember, that plan was killed by the people who live along the former RoW.

[Joe]

There has been in the past, a plan to use it for subway service. That is why one of the stations on the Queens Blvd line has an old IND mosaic that mentions Rockway service. If I remember, that plan was killed by the people who live along the former RoW.

 

There were many provisions made for the project, which include the upper level of Roosevelt Ave. as well as the extra space around Woodhaven Blvd. (to convert it to an express station).

[R110B]

in what space is that?

[INDman]

in what space is that?

 

What space is what? Do you mean at Woodhaven Blvd, because there are bell-mouths to un built tunnels so as mentioned before it could be made into an express station. You can read about it on nycsubway.org

[R110B]

What space is what? Do you mean at Woodhaven Blvd, because there are bell-mouths to un built tunnels so as mentioned before it could be made into an express station. You can read about it on nycsubway.org

yes.

[INDman]

Here is a page on Roosevelt Ave. with a map showing a connection to the LIRR Rockaway Line.

http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/roosevelt.html

At the top of this next page, a sign directing customers to the Rockaways... from 65th Street in Queens.

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/Nowhere/nowhere.html

[MTR Admiralty]

More like 60% of the time. Remember what happened to old penn station? :cry:

 

- A

Personally I don't like what had been done to the former Penn Station. To the officials, those NIMBYs were hindering urban progress (in destroying an entire station and substituting it with a grotesque stadium), no matter what the ramifications are.

[R110B]

they have no heart when they did that.

[INDman]

they have no heart when they did that.

 

Huh? They did have heart, but it was the cities financial troubles that doomed this and alot of other projects.

[metsfan]

Huh? They did have heart, but it was the cities financial troubles that doomed this and alot of other projects.

 

LIRR shut this line down after the emaciated (thanks to the dumba** ICC) PRR pulled out financial support. If the ICC was sane this line & a few others would still be operational, of course other stuff would likely be different too.

 

To see this line operational again as LIRR would be epic, especially if LIT took over from running LIRR.

 

Subway trains can hold hundreds of people, i know, but 85 foot railcars have more capacity because they are designed to hold 110 or seated pax or so, and another 45-50 standing (more if crush loaded). Not only is the ride smoother, but the trains can go faster, don't need to go into manhattan or some huge long route.

 

I know a lot of you on here are huge subway fans, but LIRR is fully capable of running the TPH needed to satisfy this proposed branch. Without dispatcher holds, without scratchitti, and with comfy seats & luggage areas.

 

The focus for now: the subway is properly cared for & TPH and headways are improved systemwide.

 

Adding trains on a crumbling fund short system = disaster.

 

- A

[INDman]

The thing is though, I think the former RoW is owned by the city.

[MTR Admiralty]

LIRR shut this line down after the emaciated (thanks to the dumba** ICC) PRR pulled out financial support. If the ICC was sane this line & a few others would still be operational, of course other stuff would likely be different too.

 

To see this line operational again as LIRR would be epic, especially if LIT took over from running LIRR.

 

Subway trains can hold hundreds of people, i know, but 85 foot railcars have more capacity because they are designed to hold 110 or seated pax or so, and another 45-50 standing (more if crush loaded). Not only is the ride smoother, but the trains can go faster, don't need to go into manhattan or some huge long route.

 

I know a lot of you on here are huge subway fans, but LIRR is fully capable of running the TPH needed to satisfy this proposed branch. Without dispatcher holds, without scratchitti, and with comfy seats & luggage areas.

 

The focus for now: the subway is properly cared for & TPH and headways are improved systemwide.

 

Adding trains on a crumbling fund short system = disaster.

 

- A

I am not using a subway fan's perspective, but rather an urban planner's perspective. If given both options, the locals would most certainly choose the subway. I have already mentioned the fare comparison. Now let's think of the nature of a commuter railway, like the LIRR/MNRR. Stations are generally spaced out, so to allow trains to run at a faster speed. Consider distances between East New York and Jamaica, or 125th and Grand Central. They are spaced further out, so that trains could run faster. That is good for the rider in terms of speed, but in terms of coverage, it is not. If the community was to benefit from a new rail line to the fullest extent, having additional stations would make sense. Now, addition stations would decrease the distance between stations, therefore, trains would not run as fast as they should have. Subways on the other hand, provide such service, offering communities easy access to stations. Typical subway lines were not designed for speed, rather they were designed for coverage.

Now this goes to frequency: how frequent would trains line be, if this were to be a railway line? Where would it connect? If stemming from the LIRR Main Line, frequency is much lower. Why? It is not heading into Nassau or Suffolk Ctys. The priority would be given to trains heading towards Jamaica. As for subway, if stemming from the QBL, service can be frequent, running from 5-7 minutes per train.

The biggest plus is this, the subway could head to many parts of the city. The residents in that sector have jobs that are beyond Midtown, I believe. If all of them work in Midtown, of course the railway line would benefit. But how about if they don't? They would have to transfer to the subway from the railway at some point in the journey in order to reach the destination they desire. I believe this is true for many cases if such were to be implemented.

Additionally, this stretch is meant to head to the Rockaways. Everything south of Liberty Avenue is under NYCTA control, meaning the tracks are used by subways. Where would the new line go, if it were to be under LIRR control? If half of the line is now subway, why not make the entire line subway? It is logical in terms of operations.

[INDman]

I am not using a subway fan's perspective, but rather an urban planner's perspective. If given both options, the locals would most certainly choose the subway. I have already mentioned the fare comparison. Now let's think of the nature of a commuter railway, like the LIRR/MNRR. Stations are generally spaced out, so to allow trains to run at a faster speed. Consider distances between East New York and Jamaica, or 125th and Grand Central. They are spaced further out, so that trains could run faster. That is good for the rider in terms of speed, but in terms of coverage, it is not. If the community was to benefit from a new rail line to the fullest extent, having additional stations would make sense. Now, addition stations would decrease the distance between stations, therefore, trains would not run as fast as they should have. Subways on the other hand, provide such service, offering communities easy access to stations. Typical subway lines were not designed for speed, rather they were designed for coverage.

Now this goes to frequency: how frequent would trains line be, if this were to be a railway line? Where would it connect? If stemming from the LIRR Main Line, frequency is much lower. Why? It is not heading into Nassau or Suffolk Ctys. The priority would be given to trains heading towards Jamaica. As for subway, if stemming from the QBL, service can be frequent, running from 5-7 minutes per train.

The biggest plus is this, the subway could head to many parts of the city. The residents in that sector have jobs that are beyond Midtown, I believe. If all of them work in Midtown, of course the railway line would benefit. But how about if they don't? They would have to transfer to the subway from the railway at some point in the journey in order to reach the destination they desire. I believe this is true for many cases if such were to be implemented.

Additionally, this stretch is meant to head to the Rockaways. Everything south of Liberty Avenue is under NYCTA control, meaning the tracks are used by subways. Where would the new line go, if it were to be under LIRR control? If half of the line is now subway, why not make the entire line subway? It is logical in terms of operations.

 

Exactly, plus you can't run LIRR trains on subway trackage without retro fitting the whole (NYCT) system due to FRA regs. Using the old Rockaway RoW would create a line to no where. It would go from White Pot Junction to Liberty Ave at the most. There is no need for that, plus the whole point of the LIRR is to move people from LI to the City and back again at the end of the day, this is why there are so few stops in Brooklyn and Queens.