SpikeMauler Posted June 1, 2010 Share #1 Posted June 1, 2010 Race against time to keep MTA workers as layoffs loom BY Pete Donohue DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Tuesday, June 1st 2010, 4:00 AM Hundreds of bus drivers and other transit workers could get a reprieve from impending layoffs if MTA and union officials can negotiate a deal - but the clock is ticking. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is tabulating how much it would cost to offer an early-retirement option so it can reduce payroll with voluntary departures instead of layoffs, sources said. The MTA wants Transport Workers Union Local 100 to cover the cost of such a program by agreeing to work-rule changes that would produce savings. Officials say bus and subway service cuts going into effect June 27 will be accompanied by layoffs of some 650 bus drivers, mechanics and other workers. That leaves little time for the two sides - which traded verbal broadsides just last month - to work out an agreement. In hopes of brokering a deal, MTA boss Jay Walder met with Local 100 President John Samuelsen last week. "We've recognized that it would be good for us to be able to sit down quietly and see how we can work through things, and I'm hopeful we'll be able to do that," Walder said The state Legislature made the early buyouts possible last week when it authorized the MTA and state agencies to offer retirement incentives. Workers could get one month of additional pension service credit for each year of service, up to three years. Another provision allows workers who retire at age 55 with 25 years of service to suffer no reduction in benefits. A Local 100 spokesman said TWU strongly supported Albany's pension bill and is willing to discuss offsetting verifiable MTA costs. The union also wants already laid-off workers to be put back on the payroll. The MTA last month laid off about 250 token booth clerks and is fighting in court to let an additional 200 go. pdonohue@nydailynews.com Hopefully they can work something out that's beneficial to both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 1, 2010 Share #2 Posted June 1, 2010 Race against time to keep MTA workers as layoffs loomBY Pete Donohue DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Tuesday, June 1st 2010, 4:00 AM Hundreds of bus drivers and other transit workers could get a reprieve from impending layoffs if MTA and union officials can negotiate a deal - but the clock is ticking. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is tabulating how much it would cost to offer an early-retirement option so it can reduce payroll with voluntary departures instead of layoffs, sources said. The MTA wants Transport Workers Union Local 100 to cover the cost of such a program by agreeing to work-rule changes that would produce savings. Officials say bus and subway service cuts going into effect June 27 will be accompanied by layoffs of some 650 bus drivers, mechanics and other workers. That leaves little time for the two sides - which traded verbal broadsides just last month - to work out an agreement. In hopes of brokering a deal, MTA boss Jay Walder met with Local 100 President John Samuelsen last week. "We've recognized that it would be good for us to be able to sit down quietly and see how we can work through things, and I'm hopeful we'll be able to do that," Walder said The state Legislature made the early buyouts possible last week when it authorized the MTA and state agencies to offer retirement incentives. Workers could get one month of additional pension service credit for each year of service, up to three years. Another provision allows workers who retire at age 55 with 25 years of service to suffer no reduction in benefits. A Local 100 spokesman said TWU strongly supported Albany's pension bill and is willing to discuss offsetting verifiable MTA costs. The union also wants already laid-off workers to be put back on the payroll. The MTA last month laid off about 250 token booth clerks and is fighting in court to let an additional 200 go. pdonohue@nydailynews.com Hopefully they can work something out that's beneficial to both sides. In other words those who took that C/R and T/O Test who come down here .... YOU ARE SOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Transit TO Posted June 1, 2010 Share #3 Posted June 1, 2010 I wish all divisions of MTA would get equitable cuts, but unfortunately I suspect NYCT will get the burden. I heard LIRR was losing 15 engineers, with an additional 30 to go at a future point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4567 Posted June 1, 2010 Share #4 Posted June 1, 2010 In other words those who took that C/R and T/O Test who come down here .... YOU ARE SOL. silly question, i know, but why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 1, 2010 Share #5 Posted June 1, 2010 silly question, i know, but why? The Unborn that Roger quote "did not want to sell out".. John might just... It is what it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatherskite Posted June 1, 2010 Share #6 Posted June 1, 2010 The Unborn that Roger quote "did not want to sell out".. John might just... It is what it is.... Oh no, Roger just sold out all the current employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted June 2, 2010 Share #7 Posted June 2, 2010 The Unborn that Roger quote "did not want to sell out".. John might just... It is what it is.... And if it means saving the clerks who got laid off and preventing the impending layoffs of B/O's, then sell the new cats out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatherskite Posted June 2, 2010 Share #8 Posted June 2, 2010 then sell the new cats out. And that is why this union is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 2, 2010 Share #9 Posted June 2, 2010 silly question, i know, but why? of course this might mean Tier 5 but for those of us who just want to get in the door, people retiring early is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtype3995 Posted June 2, 2010 Share #10 Posted June 2, 2010 thats what should have been offered in the first place...........we'll see how it goes from here......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 2, 2010 Share #11 Posted June 2, 2010 And that is why this union is a joke. Cops did it as well... Are they a joke also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 2, 2010 Share #12 Posted June 2, 2010 Oh no, Roger just sold out all the current employees. Just like thier boy in 1997 did as well, we he got suckered into opening up the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted June 2, 2010 Share #13 Posted June 2, 2010 I heard LIRR was losing 15 engineers, with an additional 30 to go at a future point.. This week at least 50 jobs (that I know of) will be abolished at Metro North creating an uncertain number of furloughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatherskite Posted June 2, 2010 Share #14 Posted June 2, 2010 Just like thier boy in 1997 did as well, we he got suckered into opening up the contract. We he got suckered? Who is that? I never met him. Any relation to woo hoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatherskite Posted June 2, 2010 Share #15 Posted June 2, 2010 Cops did it as well... Are they a joke also? No, just you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 2, 2010 Share #16 Posted June 2, 2010 No, just you are. Why the dumb and obvious stupid remark to an honest question? Hopefully you can "try" to give an adult like answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted June 2, 2010 Share #17 Posted June 2, 2010 We he got suckered? Who is that? I never met him. Any relation to woo hoo? What We He? Have no idea who woo hoo is maybe hes a relative of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdi919 Posted June 2, 2010 Share #18 Posted June 2, 2010 And if it means saving the clerks who got laid off and preventing the impending layoffs of B/O's, then sell the new cats out. i agree. let them come in and fight their own battle. we have to fight ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted June 2, 2010 Share #19 Posted June 2, 2010 i agree. let them come in and fight their own battle. we have to fight ours. Believe me, I hate thinking like this; but, we have people being thrown out of their jobs right now. We've gotta get them re-employed asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted June 2, 2010 Share #20 Posted June 2, 2010 i agree. let them come in and fight their own battle. we have to fight ours. You're right I didn't agree with selling out the unborn a few months back when you previously made this statement but it's getting shitty real fast out here. People are being put on the unemployment line or on their way i.e. "Me" maybe!! as well as a couple thousand more. I mean we as a union have to weigh in the factor of whether having a job is more important than getting another raise or paying more into our healthcare. Both of this items are things waldo and company want. At this juncture I don't see anything else that can be dealt to save anyone from being laid off. Maybe allowing the TA to take away pensions from all new hires, and have them just pay into their 401K's and 457B's. I really hate it that we have to even talk about these things because I was one of the unborns during the 2005 strike. But we the members must fight for the current members. Anyone coming in new has the option whether or not to take the job or go somewhere else. Every other union has sold out future members in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted June 2, 2010 Share #21 Posted June 2, 2010 You're right I didn't agree with selling out the unborn a few months back when you previously made this statement but it's getting shitty real fast out here. People are being put on the unemployment line or on their way i.e. "Me" maybe!! as well as a couple thousand more. I mean we as a union have to weigh in the factor of whether having a job is more important than getting another raise or paying more into our healthcare. Both of this items are things waldo and company want. At this juncture I don't see anything else that can be dealt to save anyone from being laid off. Maybe allowing the TA to take away pensions from all new hires, and have them just pay into their 401K's and 457B's. I really hate it that we have to even talk about these things because I was one of the unborns during the 2005 strike. But we the members must fight for the current members. Anyone coming in new has the option whether or not to take the job or go somewhere else. Every other union has sold out future members in one way or another. The world of 401K's is a world of failure. I remember reading somewhere that the vast majority of those with 401k's have saved UNDER $5,000 for retirement. Plus 401k's are private pools of money subject to a lot of risk and a lot of the bankster schister monkey business that has led to a lot of people getting bamboozled out of their retirement savings over the last 15 years. At least with the pooling of assets under a pension plan, there is some sway to avoid getting bamboozled because of strength in numbers. Private money managers don't want to lose that business. However they will gladly screw with an individual investor. People would be better off putting their money under a mattress than in a 401k. Must people really save for retirement solely by using IRA's (what happens if pensions are done away with)? If people think all those "social programs" that benefit the poor are bad, they will REALLY be hurting when they see how much money the government will have to spend to protect those who save next to nothing for retirement. You can't trust people to have their long term interests at heart...it is counterintuitive when no one knows what the next day brings (it could bring death for all they know). They need to be made to provide for their own futures, because they won't otherwise, and that's what a pension is (and they pay in for the right to take out someday). And to those of you who think "to hell with them if they didn't save anything, throw them out on their ass" well this is not a third world country, we don't do that to our citizens. They've paid taxes their whole life they should at least be able to get a helping hand when they need it. And before you label me some bleeding heart liberal (I'm really not) remember how much that douche bag walder makes in a YEAR and think how much it would help if people like him made just HALF of their massive salaries. That massive pool of money would be back in pensions. And social security was always intended as a last resort. One of the fundamental ideas of SS was that it was dedicated money to be saved. Then, just like "dedicated MTA payroll taxes" the clowns in government started digging into it to plug deficits elsewhere. Sound kind of like a Ponzi scheme to you? Yeah it does to me too. That only delays the day the shit hits the fan and makes it much worse. The further we extend this cycle of incompetent abuse, the worse the REAL crash will be when it comes. And this is why since day one on here, I've said three words over and over again "SAVE YOUR MONEY" because odds are we will ALL very much need it in our lifetimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted June 2, 2010 Share #22 Posted June 2, 2010 Maybe allowing the TA to take away pensions from all new hires, and have them just pay into their 401K's and 457B's. That will NEVER happen. Everyone down here is entitled to look forward to a pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted June 3, 2010 Share #23 Posted June 3, 2010 You're right I didn't agree with selling out . . . . future members in one way or another. The world of 401K's . . . . in our lifetimes. That will NEVER happen. Everyone down here is entitled to look forward to a pension. Sorry, guys, but I wanted to save space. :eek: When I was still in high school a few years back, I had this U.S. History professor whose way of teaching was so Socratic with the metaphors, parables, analogies and anecdotes that he used so often and to great effect. I believe the lecture was on natural disasters, responses and management. For some reason, we veered slightly off-topic with stories of personal experiences and then he dropped this gem on the class: "Never expect anything. Expectations are premeditated resentments. Never bank on the future, as you're likely to go broke before you get past the present. And you can use the past to plan for the future, but never live outside of the present. Yesterday has gone; tomorrow is never promised. Live today while still being prepared for tomorrow. That's such a golden edict, and it'll never be proved false. Will's post about the unborn members couldn't be more accurate. I'm on the O.C. list for Exam #8094 and I hope to hold a good number when the Exam #8098 list is released. That having been stated, I'm an "unborn." And I can cry foul and whine and talk about "greedy" this and "selfish" that when it comes to current due-paying TWU 100 members, just as I'm sure some people already have been. However, I look at it like this (and I'll embolden and separate this statement so as to avoid misinterpretation): If you, the current due-paying members of TWU Local 100, do not sell out the unborn while trying to nurse your current kid, adult and senior brothers and sisters, you'll only be cutting your own throats while killing us "embryos" in the process. And the unfortunate part is that your intentions would be to do the exact opposite of both. Concessions and compromises are most often made when all negotiating parties have more than demand of the other(s). Take the recent healthcare reform bill: in order for that to pass legislation, so many alterations, edits, cuts and pastes, modifications and half-stepped clauses were made that, while President Obama praised the bill as legal triumph that would usher in a new era of affordable and accessible health care, I was just glad that quadruple bypasses and coronary disease treatment would be easier to obtain after everyone climbed out of the pork barrels. The current Local 100 members have multiple demands, and none of them are unjustified or unearned. The has its demands as well, which are understandable considering the source; however, the governing motives for a reduced workforce, the elimination of civil service titles, benefit contribution changes and Tier 5 pension implementation are sketchy at best, and J.W.'s smoke & mirrors scheme of handshaking, flashy smiles and "John and I want to work together to reach..." bullshit lines distracts the fare-paying consumers from the shareholders crowding around the Metrocard machines like kids who threw a rock at a gumball machine. Give up on any of the blue collar demands with the thought of the next class and the class after, then not only will those be lost, but the next item on the agenda is forced to become expendable or compromisable by default in order to continue to protect the unpromised people. On top of all of that, those conceded items will be left out of future bargaining agreements and those agreed-upon items are open to negotiation between management and those still in the civil service womb (waiting on the list). Going back to the basics, hardassed, b*ll-breaking, no-joke, loudmouthed, obnoxious, uncouth, tactless, self-serving, all-or-nothing and "Now or Never" union stances on contract negotiations always prove to be the most effective for represented titles, and this goes for any labor agreement in history. Don't even consider the next guy to walk through the door, because as far as your current management is concerned, the guy before you should have been the last one. If TriBeCa had his way, #8094 wouldn't have even been offered. Thus, nothing is written in stone, and nothing can be believed at all, ever; it can be seen firsthand, and that's it. Z's right when he claims that everyone is "entitled to look forward..." a pension while working for the . And, please, don't take the wrong way, but I'm also entitled to open my mouth, insert my foot, and crap out my Nikes tomorrow morning. And while we're at it, isn't every citizen of the United States entitled "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" by the Declaration of Independence? Actually, Thomas Jefferson used the term "endowed" in that document, the difference being that with endowed, the item is given or provided, while with entitled, it's the right to claim the item. Damn right that a pension has the right to be claimed! However, the way that all the king's horses and all the king's men have been talking, future employees will be lucky to have napkin-sized savings compared to Humpty Dumpty's parachute. Still, current employees don't know me. I'm not a co-worker. I'm not a family member. I'm not a union brother. I'm not even on the radar over there. As far as they're concerned, words on a webpage. However, if everyone started fighting with my welfare rather than their own in mind, they'd lose big now, and I'd lose even bigger once I made it there, if I ever do. As long as they save their money, I'll be "entitled" to save mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeMauler Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #24 Posted June 3, 2010 I can see Samuelsen conceding small givebacks, like 5years to top pay for new hires and some minor work rule changes, but I can't see him agreeing to tier 5 pension reform unless he gets something major in return on top of everyone laid off returning to work and no lay off guarantees. Tier 5 is the big prize that they(NYCT) want but can't have unless we say so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatherskite Posted June 3, 2010 Share #25 Posted June 3, 2010 Anyone willing to sell out the future employees deserves to lose their job. You are not a union member, just a selfish bastard. A god damn union is supposed to protect all members, and not sacrifice some for others. All of you who are willing to sell out our future employees, why don't you get out of the union and be independent contractors instead of union members. You make me sick and deserve the crap you're going through. You are doing exactly what the TA wants you to do morons. Yeah, the new guys aren't here yet, so why give them anything good? Let's take care of what we have. You know what's going to happen if you selfish morons allow this? The union as weak as it is, will fall apart even more to the point where there will no longer be a union and you won't have shit later on. Make a deal with the devil and you deserve the hell you get after. Morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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