Congestion pricing still on board as politicians resurrect plan to charge drivers entering city

[Shortline Bus]

Congestion pricing still on board as politicians resurrect plan to charge drivers entering city

 

BY Adam Lisberg

NY DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF

 

Wednesday, January 26th 2011

 

"Politicians are quietly resurrecting plans to charge drivers up to $10 to enter lower Manhattan on weekdays.

 

While there is no formal proposal, the money could restore some of last year's MTA service cuts, halt the next fare increase and reduce the payroll tax outside the five boroughs.

 

Mayor Bloomberg proposed a similar system with an $8 charge in 2008, only to see it shot down in the Assembly.

 

It would have used E-ZPasses and license plate readers to bill drivers entering Manhattan below 60th St. from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. on weekdays.

 

Now, backers call it "traffic pricing" - and want to build support among outer borough and suburban lawmakers before proposing a specific plan.

 

"The MTA needs a sustainable funding source," explained state Sen. Daniel Squadron (D-Brooklyn), who's rounding up colleagues. "This has to be on the table."

 

One idea would reduce the payroll tax on businesses outside Manhattan - which could win backing from suburban lawmakers.

 

"Everybody out in the suburbs hates the payroll tax, so the idea of 'feathering' the tax could be helpful," said one person involved.

 

"This has to be a regional effort. It has to enjoy regional support," the source added.

 

Driver fees could also reverse some of the MTA service cuts that eliminated two subway lines and 36 bus routes last year, and help plug the system's $10 billion long-term maintenance gap.

 

They could also delay the 7% fare hike scheduled for a year from now, backers hope.

 

While Gov. Cuomo has not taken sides on the idea, Bloomberg aides have been working on it behind the scenes for months.

 

"The key is devising a proposal that would win broad support across the five boroughs, the entire region, and in Albany," said Deputy Mayor Howard Wolfson.

 

Two groups usually at odds - the union-backed Working Families Party and the business-friendly Partnership for New York City - are also working together on the plan."

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/01/26/2011-01-26_congestion_pricing_no_longer_taking_detour.html

[SubwayGuy]

No one wants this except the rich who want to nickel and dime New Yorkers.

 

Congestion pricing sucks and it needs to die.

 

You fund the MTA properly by giving the "dedicated" MTA monies to the agency they have been "dedicated" for

[Messino]

Ill give Bloomberg a boot to the skull if this passes. Mark my words.

[Nova RTS 9147]

No one wants this except the rich who want to nickel and dime New Yorkers.

 

Congestion pricing sucks and it needs to die.

 

You fund the MTA properly by giving the "dedicated" MTA monies to the agency they have been "dedicated" for

 

Even with this, they'll manage to lose money. This also seems like a way for the state to not fund the agency (when the budget comes, it gives them an excuse to cut funding by saying "well you got congestion pricing, why should we kick x amount in?"). What would help the agency is if governors stop encourage them to get a loan everytime the capital project comes along.

[Forest Glen]

No one wants this except the rich who want to nickel and dime New Yorkers.

 

Congestion pricing sucks and it needs to die.

 

You fund the MTA properly by giving the "dedicated" MTA monies to the agency they have been "dedicated" for

 

If congestion pricing is approved, then people will have a choice of paying an exorbitant amount of money to drive into Manhattan or taking this subway system:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TteXDMh-r1s

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[checkmatechamp13]

The people I feel bad for are the people who drive through Manhattan because they live or work in an area poor mass transit options.

 

However, I do think that some form of this plan should pass. Whether it is East/Harlem River Bridge tolls or congestion pricing. Not only would there be a decrease in traffic, but there would be additional ridership on the subways/local buses, which would help bring in more revenue.

 

I heard on the radio about a guy who complained about the cost of driving from SI to Manhattan. I thought "there is no way that guy should be driving into Manhattan. If he was really concerned about price and comfort, he could park at a park-and-ride and take an express bus in, rather than driving"

[Forest Glen]

Bringing in more revenue by forcing people to subsidize a form of transportation they don't use or ride an inefficient mode of transportation. If they're going to do this then they should at least lower the express bus fare.

[Nova RTS 9147]

Bringing in more revenue by forcing people to subsidize a form of transportation they don't use or ride an inefficient mode of transportation. If they're going to do this then they should at least lower the express bus fare.

 

They already do that. Have you ever been in a NYC taxi? or gotten your license renewed?

[Shortline Bus]

They already do that. Have you ever been in a NYC taxi? or gotten your license renewed?

 

FG I don't think (unless things changed)has a driver's license.

[Joel Up Front]

Just throwing it out there, most New Yorkers don't have cars.

 

I'm all for congestion pricing. Don't get me wrong, I love driving. But in New York, it's impractical and in the areas where congestion pricing would be implemented, decadent.

 

Squadron is completely correct. The fact of the matter is the MTA is under-funded in the first place, and while you can moan about that, there needs to be more funding, and we'll have to swallow whatever detriments come along with that. It's beneficial to the rest of New York to implement a tax on the minority as opposed to service cuts, which are obviously the alternative.

 

--

 

 

 

What's the point of your post? To dump on the subway? Looks like it to me. And quite obviously, a project like Congestion Pricing helps improve MTA funding and MAINTENANCE, which looks to be what you're complaining about.

 

He does it every day.

 

All politicians need to do is stop being self-important asses... oh wait, they never will.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just throwing it out there, most New Yorkers don't have cars.

 

I'm all for congestion pricing. Don't get me wrong, I love driving. But in New York, it's impractical and in the areas where congestion pricing would be implemented, decadent.

 

Squadron is completely correct. The fact of the matter is the MTA is under-funded in the first place, and while you can moan about that, there needs to be more funding, and we'll have to swallow whatever detriments come along with that. It's beneficial to the rest of New York to implement a tax on the minority as opposed to service cuts, which are obviously the alternative.

 

--

 

 

 

What's the point of your post? To dump on the subway? Looks like it to me. And quite obviously, a project like Congestion Pricing helps improve MTA funding and MAINTENANCE, which looks to be what you're complaining about.

 

 

I would happen to agree w/you to an extent, but the problem is can the MTA be trusted to now squander this money too? Sure they are certainly underfunded by the state, but they also squander a lot of cash too.

[Nova RTS 9147]

FG I don't think (unless things changed)has a driver's license.

 

Fair enough, but the point still remains. If you pay to get a driver license in this state, the TA gets a cut of that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The people I feel bad for are the people who drive through Manhattan because they live or work in an area poor mass transit options.

 

However, I do think that some form of this plan should pass. Whether it is East/Harlem River Bridge tolls or congestion pricing. Not only would there be a decrease in traffic, but there would be additional ridership on the subways/local buses, which would help bring in more revenue.

 

I heard on the radio about a guy who complained about the cost of driving from SI to Manhattan. I thought "there is no way that guy should be driving into Manhattan. If he was really concerned about price and comfort, he could park at a park-and-ride and take an express bus in, rather than driving"

 

Haven't you argued that ridership only makes up a small amount of the MTA's budget? Also, with the rampid fare evasion that goes on, how can we be sure that people won't just say f-it and you'll have a further spike in fare evasion as people rebel against congestion pricing?

[checkmatechamp13]

The MTA gets around 50% of its revenue from fares, higher than almost all other transit agencies in the USA.

 

And to be honest, I don't think anybody who could afford to drive into Manhattan is going to "rebel" and farebeat. From observations, most farebeaters are either children/young adults or people earning a very low income. Neither of those groups currently drives into Manhattan.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The MTA gets around 50% of its revenue from fares, higher than almost all other transit agencies in the USA.

 

And to be honest, I don't think anybody who could afford to drive into Manhattan is going to "rebel" and farebeat. From observations, most farebeaters are either children/young adults or people earning a very low income. Neither of those groups currently drives into Manhattan.

 

It has also been mentioned that the monies generated from fares only make up a small percentage of their operating costs, so much so that that's a main reason why they don't pursue fare beaters more rigorously. It would seem natural to me that the more people ride the system, the more fare beating will increase so long as their isn't more enforcement.

[Forest Glen]

FG I don't think (unless things changed)has a driver's license.

 

I'll probably get it this summer. I'm too busy right now.

 

I would happen to agree w/you to an extent, but the problem is can the MTA be trusted to now squander this money too? Sure they are certainly underfunded by the state, but they also squander a lot of cash too.

 

The MTA's specialty is wasting money on unnecessary pet projects.

[checkmatechamp13]

It has also been mentioned that the monies generated from fares only make up a small percentage of their operating costs, so much so that that's a main reason why they don't pursue fare beaters more rigorously. It would seem natural to me that the more people ride the system, the more fare beating will increase so long as their isn't more enforcement.

 

50% isn't a small percentage.

 

And if you have more farebeaters, but more paying riders to counterbalance them, you still come out ahead, especially if they are just using existing capacity.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

50% isn't a small percentage.

 

And if you have more farebeaters, but more paying riders to counterbalance them, you still come out ahead, especially if they are just using existing capacity.

 

 

More of suckers that do pay will just keep paying to cover farebeaters, so the MTA doesn't lose either way.

[aemoreira81]

The MTA gets around 50% of its revenue from fares, higher than almost all other transit agencies in the USA.

 

And to be honest, I don't think anybody who could afford to drive into Manhattan is going to "rebel" and farebeat. From observations, most farebeaters are either children/young adults or people earning a very low income. Neither of those groups currently drives into Manhattan.

 

What those people could do is vote with their wallets and leave the state, taking their taxpaying ability to another state. That is why it needs to be extinguished. Instead, if the problem is operating the system, the MTA should look to contract out the entire bus operations to a private firm who could operate things more cheaply, and then seek operators for LIRR and Metro-North (most other regional railroads are contracted).

[Nova RTS 9147]

What those people could do is vote with their wallets and leave the state, taking their taxpaying ability to another state. That is why it needs to be extinguished. Instead, if the problem is operating the system, the MTA should look to contract out the entire bus operations to a private firm who could operate things more cheaply, and then seek operators for LIRR and Metro-North (most other regional railroads are contracted).

 

Terrible idea. No good comes from contracting out regardless of how attractive the costs look. If the MTA can't operate what it has, then they had no business taking over the private lines and LIB to begin with. They also had no business digging themselves into $25 Billion in debt.

 

Contracting out services is a farce, a way for private businesses to rob the state and operate sub standard services while paying their employees slave wages!

[aemoreira81]

Terrible idea. No good comes from contracting out regardless of how attractive the costs look. If the MTA can't operate what it has, then they had no business taking over the private lines and LIB to begin with. They also had no business digging themselves into $25 Billion in debt.

 

Contracting out services is a farce, a way for private businesses to rob the state and operate sub standard services while paying their employees slave wages!

 

Then they can be replaced with another contractor if they won't provide service up to snuff. There are many companies who would bid, including many of the bus operators around Metro NY, and other operators elsewhere, including Atlantic Express, Academy, MV, Veolia, National Express, Coach USA (which has abandoned almost all of its charter services), and First Transit/Student. That alone could extract savings; the average wage in the industry is about $18/hour. MTA workers (with all due respect) earn way above the industry average.

[Nova RTS 9147]

Then they can be replaced with another contractor if they won't provide service up to snuff. There are many companies who would bid, including many of the bus operators around Metro NY, and other operators elsewhere, including Atlantic Express, Academy, MV, Veolia, National Express, Coach USA (which has abandoned almost all of its charter services), and First Transit/Student. That alone could extract savings; the average wage in the industry is about $18/hour. MTA workers (with all due respect) earn way above the industry average.

 

This could also have something to do with high costs....

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26797

 

People need to stop pointing at the employees, as if they're the bad guys.

[aemoreira81]

This could also have something to do with high costs....

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26797

 

People need to stop pointing at the employees, as if they're the bad guys.

 

Okay, but it's also the fault of Lee Sander, who essentially capitulated in the last round of contract negotiations, leading to this mess that Jay Walder now must deal with. Had he not done that, the MTA wouldn't have such onerous contract terms.

 

It also didn't help that the MTA also abandoned Proskauer Rose, who had at least helped keep the contracts reasonable in the past.

 

Bringing it back to the point though, I cannot support congestion pricing in any form now because NYers are taxed enough. Derive savings from cutting or contracting out the express bus network (with dedicated garages for express buses to allow contracting, along with some local buses being contracted).

 

Taking over the PBLs was a mistake---if it were up to me, I would look to retain the MTA name as a brand only, but contract them back to private operators, along with express service.

[Nova RTS 9147]

Okay, but it's also the fault of Lee Sander, who essentially capitulated in the last round of contract negotiations, leading to this mess that Jay Walder now must deal with. Had he not done that, the MTA wouldn't have such onerous contract terms.

 

It also didn't help that the MTA also abandoned Proskauer Rose, who had at least helped keep the contracts reasonable in the past.

 

And how is contracting operations to external parties suppose to help if the agency can't get reasonable terms with things like bus repairs?