Meeting Regarding S79 +SBS+

[checkmatechamp13]

I saw a flier on Friday (on both the S44 and S89) advertising a meeting regarding the S79 +SBS+ proposal.

 

I don't quite remember what it said, but I know it said that there was a meeting on June 8th. I remember it said that it was accessable by the S51, as well as the Hylan Blvd bus routes, so I'm pretty sure the meeting is being held at the Excelsior Grand (located at 2380 Hylan Boulevard in New Dorp). I'm not sure of the time, but I'm 99% sure it is in the evening.

 

I'm going to try to see if the notice is up tomorrow, but I posted this so everybody could look out for the flier advertising the meeting.

[cartmn1210]

I saw a flier on Friday (on both the S44 and S89) advertising a meeting regarding the S79 +SBS+ proposal.

 

I don't quite remember what it said, but I know it said that there was a meeting on June 8th. I remember it said that it was accessable by the S51, as well as the Hylan Blvd bus routes, so I'm pretty sure the meeting is being held at the Excelsior Grand (located at 2380 Hylan Boulevard in New Dorp). I'm not sure of the time, but I'm 99% sure it is in the evening.

 

I'm going to try to see if the notice is up tomorrow, but I posted this so everybody could look out for the flier advertising the meeting.

 

Probably at the Renasance(forgive the typo) on Hylan n Midland. Yes they are pushing select service on the 79. It was the first line on SI selected to go SBS. I wish ALL the 40's (40,44,46,48) go SBS.

[LRG]

Probably at the Renasance(forgive the typo) on Hylan n Midland. Yes they are pushing select service on the 79. It was the first line on SI selected to go SBS. I wish ALL the 40's (40,44,46,48) go SBS.

 

Too bad that's not practical, the streets those routes travel on aren't wide enough.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Probably at the Renasance(forgive the typo) on Hylan n Midland. Yes they are pushing select service on the 79. It was the first line on SI selected to go SBS. I wish ALL the 40's (40,44,46,48) go SBS.

 

If I can find out where this is, I'd be asking why can't the S53 get some form of limited stop service?? I mean it's ridiculous that the busiest line on the island has only local bus service and the S93 doesn't count. :mad: The S79 could get SBS service and since the streets are too narrow for SBS service on the S53 just put limited stop service on it.

[MattTrain]

That would be a first +SBS+ route for a bus line that doesn't have a corresponding Limited-stop variation to be implemented. I don't know if articulated buses can even travel via Hylan Boulevard/Richmond Avenue.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That would be a first +SBS+ route for a bus line that doesn't have a corresponding Limited-stop variation to be implemented. I don't know if articulated buses can even travel via Hylan Boulevard/Richmond Avenue.

 

The part of Hylan Blvd and Richmond Ave that the S79 travels down shouldn't be a problem. They are both two of the widest major streets on Staten Island.

[MattTrain]

The part of Hylan Blvd and Richmond Ave that the S79 travels down shouldn't be a problem. They are both two of the widest major streets on Staten Island.

 

That makes sense B)

[checkmatechamp13]

Probably at the Renasance(forgive the typo) on Hylan n Midland. Yes they are pushing select service on the 79. It was the first line on SI selected to go SBS. I wish ALL the 40's (40,44,46,48) go SBS.

 

Too bad that's not practical, the streets those routes travel on aren't wide enough.

 

The problem is that the only time they have the frequency to justify a limited is during rush hours.

 

If I can find out where this is, I'd be asking why can't the S53 get some form of limited stop service?? I mean it's ridiculous that the busiest line on the island has only local bus service and the S93 doesn't count. :mad: The S79 could get SBS service and since the streets are too narrow for SBS service on the S53 just put limited stop service on it.

 

The fliers will probably be up on the express bus as well (especially the Hylan Blvd routes), so you can see when it is and tell them that at the meeting.

 

The part of Hylan Blvd and Richmond Ave that the S79 travels down shouldn't be a problem. They are both two of the widest major streets on Staten Island.

 

The problem becomes where to put the bus lane along Richmond Avenue, since it is mostly residential (along Hylan Blvd, the bus lane will be in the median, but to be honest, I think the MTA and DOT should've told the businesses to f*ck themselves and put the bus lane down curbside to make it easier to access)

[LRG]

Depending on where the bus stations are along Richmond Avenue, or even Hylan Boulevard for that matter, I think the bus lanes should be located in the center of the street rather than by the curbside.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The problem becomes where to put the bus lane along Richmond Avenue, since it is mostly residential (along Hylan Blvd, the bus lane will be in the median, but to be honest, I think the MTA and DOT should've told the businesses to f*ck themselves and put the bus lane down curbside to make it easier to access)

 

 

LOL... You don't win support for the implementation of a service like this if you ram it down people's throats and have no regard for the effect it will have on the community. There are many small businesses along Hylan Blvd who know that having the bus stops curb side could have a serious impact on their business, so what should be done is to consult with the community and see what their concerns are and help them understand the benefits of the service and come to a compromise. Many folks along Hylan Blvd live and die by their car and if parking isn't easily accessible they won't bother to patronize those stores for the most part. Sounds ridiculous but the typical Staten Islander wouldn't be caught dead walking anywhere. It's park the car, jump out of the car and run into the store so no one can dare think that they actually walked to the store and then run out of the store and back to the car.

[Amtrak7]

Why would businesses be opposed? A bus stop and better transit service in front of your store would actually increase your business.

[checkmatechamp13]

Depending on where the bus stations are along Richmond Avenue, or even Hylan Boulevard for that matter, I think the bus lanes should be located in the center of the street rather than by the curbside.

 

I think there are some portions of the route where it is only 2 lanes in each direction, which would make it hard to put a bus lane in the center of the street.

 

LOL... You don't win support for the implementation of a service like this if you ram it down people's throats and have no regard for the effect it will have on the community. There are many small businesses along Hylan Blvd who know that having the bus stops curb side could have a serious impact on their business, so what should be done is to consult with the community and see what their concerns are and help them understand the benefits of the service and come to a compromise. Many folks along Hylan Blvd live and die by their car and if parking isn't easily accessible they won't bother to patronize those stores for the most part. Sounds ridiculous but the typical Staten Island wouldn't be caught dead walking anywhere. It's park the car, jump out of the car and run into the store so no one can dare think that they actually walked to the store and then run out of the store and back to the car.

 

The effect will be positive overall: There are roughly 31,000 riders using transit along Hylan Blvd (see this report: http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/20101025_hylan_cac1.pdf) who will see much faster travel times. The last time I checked, they were part of the community.

 

As far as small businesses go, generally, they are frequented by the people in the neighborhood, and if they are stuck in traffic, there is a chance that they are losing business right now because of the lack of bus lanes (if the parking lane is taking up space that could be used for a bus lane, that means that the traffic is moving slower than it could be).

 

There are a couple of documents with information regarding +SBS+:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/future/brt_phase2.shtml

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/home/home.shtml

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/intro_to_brt_phase2.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/brt_phase2_appendix.pdf

http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/whatis.htm

 

There was a document showing the proposed stops of the S79 +SBS+, but I can't find it.

 

Why would businesses be opposed? A bus stop and better transit service in front of your store would actually increase your business.

 

Exactly. In my neighborhood, there are a couple of delis located next to bus stops, and people are always buying cold cuts and snacks before they get onto the bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why would businesses be opposed? A bus stop and better transit service in front of your store would actually increase your business.

 

We are talking about Staten Island, which is a car centric borough. While business could be drawn from folks taking the bus, the area of Staten Island in question is far more car centric than it is bus centric. Also, the thinking could be that those with cars probably have more disposable income and would thus spend more than someone taking public transportation. This is probably less true in a place like Manhattan were folks who are poor and those with money all ride the bus just the same, so they have a legitimate gripe. They clearly understand that the majority of people coming to their stores are those who own cars. This is especially true for small business owners. The big box stores generally tend to be in places that are more accessible and provide areas to park thus freeing up areas for buses and such, where as small businesses usually aren't in the position to provide those things.

[checkmatechamp13]

I found the document with the list of +SBS+ stops: http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/images/hylan.pdf

 

There is more information available here: http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/projectupdate.htm

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The effect will be positive overall: There are roughly 31,000 riders using transit along Hylan Blvd (see this report: http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/20101025_hylan_cac1.pdf) who will see much faster travel times. The last time I checked, they were part of the community.

 

As far as small businesses go, generally, they are frequented by the people in the neighborhood, and if they are stuck in traffic, there is a chance that they are losing business right now because of the lack of bus lanes (if the parking lane is taking up space that could be used for a bus lane, that means that the traffic is moving slower than it could be).

 

The number of folks riding the bus has nothing to do with those folks that drive to these small businesses to make purchases. The question still is where do these people park if the bus lanes are put there? Also, buying snacks and such are small purchases and while some folks will buy a small item from the store, there are many that don't. I don't bother with those stores because they tend to be overpriced and don't offer much in terms of quality and I see plenty of folks along Hylan Blvd waiting for the buses that don't frequent those stores as well. Most of the ones that do are usually local bus riders, which we both know are generally poorer than those who drive and/or take the express bus, which usually means that the purchases are likely to be small ones, meaning meager earnings for the small businesses. If we were talking about an urban part of Brooklyn I would agree with you, but Staten Island because it is more suburban is far more different.

 

That corner store there on Forest and Broadway is the first store that has been there for a few years. Previously there were a few stores that went out of business because even though you have the S48 and S53 right there, very few people frequented the store. It's also interesting to note that there isn't anywhere really for a lot of folks to park either, as say down the street where the Italian pizzeria is. That little strip gets far more people that drive there than it is people walking there.

[checkmatechamp13]

The number of folks riding the bus has nothing to do with those folks that drive to these small businesses to make purchases. The question still is where do these people park if the bus lanes are put there? Also, buying snacks and such are small purchases and while some folks will buy a small item from the store, there are many that don't. I don't bother with those stores because they tend to be overpriced and don't offer much in terms of quality and I see plenty of folks along Hylan Blvd waiting for the buses that don't frequent those stores as well. Most of the ones that do are usually local bus riders, which we both know are generally poorer than those who drive and/or take the express bus, which usually means that the purchases are likely to be small ones, meaning meager earnings for the small businesses. If we were talking about an urban part of Brooklyn I would agree with you, but Staten Island because it is more suburban is far more different.

 

That corner store there on Forest and Broadway is the first store that has been there for a few years. Previously there were a few stores that went out of business because even though you have the S48 and S53 right there, very few people frequented the store. It's also interesting to note that there isn't anywhere really for a lot of folks to park either, as say down the street where the Italian pizzeria is. That little strip gets far more people that drive there than it is people walking there.

 

The number of people taking the bus has everything to do with the number of people driving, simply because they are outnumbering them, so there are more people who benefit by having the bus lanes.

 

Also, if the bus lanes help the traffic to move faster, isn't that a benefit for the businesses as well?

 

Also, the riders may only make small purchases, but if you have 1,000 people making $5 purchases or 100 people making $20 purchases, obviously having 1,000 people will bring in more money.

 

As far as parking goes, they can always try to park on a side street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The number of people taking the bus has everything to do with the number of people driving, simply because they are outnumbering them, so there are more people who benefit by having the bus lanes.

 

Also, if the bus lanes help the traffic to move faster, isn't that a benefit for the businesses as well?

 

Also, the riders may only make small purchases, but if you have 1,000 people making $5 purchases or 100 people making $20 purchases, obviously having 1,000 people will bring in more money.

 

As far as parking goes, they can always try to park on a side street.

 

Yeah, but that still doesn't negate the fact that Staten Island is car centric and prefers cars over buses and that's the point. Also, I knew you would come up with that 1,000 people buying stuff at $5.00. LOL That may happen in a few situations maybe where you live along parts of Richmond Avenue, which quite frankly is the exception. That is usually not the case on Staten Island overall because people know that those stores charge more than the supermarkets, in fact far more than the supermarket, so most of them don't even make small purchases there. To be honest for some reason they charge more out here on Staten Island than they do in Brooklyn, be it the supermarket or the corner stores,. Strange, but true. I've compared prices, so I know. I can get many items that I buy in the city cheaper than I can on Staten Island. I think it has to do with the fact they know folks are lazy overall and have the money to spend, but those who really don't want to pay that will just go to NJ or shop in Brooklyn for some items like I do. :cool:

 

Moving traffic is fine and good, but it still doesn't address the parking issue. You already have all of the express bus riders irritating folks who live on the side streets because they use the side streets as a park-and-ride over by Hylan Blvd for the whole day and in to the night, so that would just excerbate an already out of control problem. The bus lanes could work, but as I said before, you can't just stick them there and not address the parking problem. Aside from that, again if we were in Brooklyn I'd say this wouldn't be such an issue because folks are less car centric overall, but on Staten Island which is far more car centric, people are not going to go out of their way to shop somewhere where they don't have easy access to parking. They are simply too stuck up to walk any real distance from their car to the store in most cases or don't want to lug around with heavy items to the car, so they'll just say forget it and go elsewhere where there is parking and those small businesses simply cannot afford to take that kind of hit.

[SIR North Shore]

I find it odd that the MTA is really pushing for the SBS S79 when it's clearly being opposed. There are plenty of other things they could do for Staten Island other than SBS that would benefit more people. The only thing the S79 needs is a limited because it's a fast route already and IMO, the Novabus artics would only help to slow the route down immensely.

[King Of RedBirds]

So what bus routes does everyone suggest should be SBS.

[Nova RTS 9147]

The number of people taking the bus has everything to do with the number of people driving, simply because they are outnumbering them, so there are more people who benefit by having the bus lanes.

 

As far as parking goes, they can always try to park on a side street.

 

Actually, that should be reexamined. SI is that very interesting part of the city where a nice amount of bus riders are also car owners, who may feel conflicted about giving up a parking space for a bus line they may not necessarily like.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah, but that still doesn't negate the fact that Staten Island is car centric and prefers cars over buses and that's the point. Also, I knew you would come up with that 1,000 people buying stuff at $5.00. LOL That may happen in a few situations maybe where you live along parts of Richmond Avenue, which quite frankly is the exception. That is usually not the case on Staten Island overall because people know that those stores charge more than the supermarkets, in fact far more than the supermarket, so most of them don't even make small purchases there. To be honest for some reason they charge more out here on Staten Island than they do in Brooklyn, be it the supermarket or the corner stores,. Strange, but true. I've compared prices, so I know. I can get many items that I buy in the city cheaper than I can on Staten Island. I think it has to do with the fact they know folks are lazy overall and have the money to spend, but those who really don't want to pay that will just go to NJ or shop in Brooklyn for some items like I do. :cool:

 

Moving traffic is fine and good, but it still doesn't address the parking issue. You already have all of the express bus riders irritating folks who live on the side streets because they use the side streets as a park-and-ride over by Hylan Blvd for the whole day and in to the night, so that would just excerbate an already out of control problem. The bus lanes could work, but as I said before, you can't just stick them there and not address the parking problem. Aside from that, again if we were in Brooklyn I'd say this wouldn't be such an issue because folks are less car centric overall, but on Staten Island which is far more car centric, people are not going to go out of their way to shop somewhere where they don't have easy access to parking. They are simply too stuck up to walk any real distance from their car to the store in most cases or don't want to lug around with heavy items to the car, so they'll just say forget it and go elsewhere where there is parking and those small businesses simply cannot afford to take that kind of hit.

 

Actually, believe it or not, I think some of them have cheaper prices than the supermarket (at least on some items). For example, across from ShopRite, there is a deli that sells milk for less than what ShopRite has it for (they raised it from $2.99 to $3.49 per gallon, whereas ShopRite is something like $4.19). Their cold cuts are also roughly the same price as ShopRite's.

 

I think there is a similar situation at the corner store at Forest Avenue/Broadway: They have eggs for $1/dozen and there isn't even any competition nearby.

 

As far as being lazy goes, that is actually a reason why people buy from those stores: They go up to the bus stop and buy their lunch before getting on the bus.

 

I find it odd that the MTA is really pushing for the SBS S79 when it's clearly being opposed. There are plenty of other things they could do for Staten Island other than SBS that would benefit more people. The only thing the S79 needs is a limited because it's a fast route already and IMO, the Novabus artics would only help to slow the route down immensely.

 

It would help speed up the S79 a little bit more than a limited would, though, because you don't have everybody dipping in their MetroCards. It would also make it seem to be more attractive: Rather than being a plain old limited, it would be the fancy +SBS+.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So what bus routes does everyone suggest should be SBS.

 

 

There's a thread on that very topic. You can see everyone's answers in that thread.

 

Actually, believe it or not, I think some of them have cheaper prices than the supermarket (at least on some items). For example, across from ShopRite, there is a deli that sells milk for less than what ShopRite has it for (they raised it from $2.99 to $3.49 per gallon, whereas ShopRite is something like $4.19). Their cold cuts are also roughly the same price as ShopRite's.

 

I think there is a similar situation at the corner store at Forest Avenue/Broadway: They have eggs for $1/dozen and there isn't even any competition nearby.

 

As far as being lazy goes, that is actually a reason why people buy from those stores: They go up to the bus stop and buy their lunch before getting on the bus.

 

 

 

It would help speed up the S79 a little bit more than a limited would, though, because you don't have everybody dipping in their MetroCards. It would also make it seem to be more attractive: Rather than being a plain old limited, it would be the fancy +SBS+.

 

Yeah, some items are probably cheaper at those stores, but I still don't buy them there because overall they're pricer. The organic milk, I buy that cheaper at Whole Foods, plus I like to use my Amex card this way I get points. I get double points for "grocery expenses" and once the points accumulate, I use them to treat myself to a nice lunch or whatever or I can use them to pay down my bill. I recently used 15,000 points and got myself a $75.00 Amex gift card for dining, so I only use cash when I absolutely have to since Amex also has a great program which allows you to keep track of your spending. :cool:

 

As far as the folks buying from there that is true, but they still aren't going in there like that and buying food, at least not in most parts of Staten Island. Richmond Avenue I could see that because folks over there have more cash to spend, but generally the local bus riders are far poorer on Staten Island than those of us who take the express bus and/or drive.

 

 

 

I think a limited stop service would be best on the S79 and they could perhaps take those resources and use it to make the S53 limited as well. BTW, I took the X30 this morning and did not see anything about the S79 SBS, so maybe if I take the X1 tonight I'll see it.

[checkmatechamp13]

There's a thread on that very topic. You can see everyone's answers in that thread.

 

 

 

Yeah, some items are probably cheaper at those stores, but I still don't buy them there because overall they're pricer. The organic milk, I buy that cheaper at Whole Foods, plus I like to use my Amex card this way I get points. I get double points for "grocery expenses" and once the points accumulate, I use them to treat myself to a nice lunch or whatever or I can use them to pay down my bill. I recently used 15,000 points and got myself a $75.00 Amex gift card for dining, so I only use cash when I absolutely have to since Amex also has a great program which allows you to keep track of your spending. :cool:

 

As far as the folks buying from there that is true, but they still aren't going in there like that and buying food, at least not in most parts of Staten Island. Richmond Avenue I could see that because folks over there have more cash to spend, but generally the local bus riders are far poorer on Staten Island than those of us who take the express bus and/or drive.

 

 

 

I think a limited stop service would be best on the S79 and they could perhaps take those resources and use it to make the S53 limited as well. BTW, I took the X30 this morning and did not see anything about the S79 SBS, so maybe if I take the X1 tonight I'll see it.

 

I know it isn't good to stereotype, but the people I see going into those stores don't look like they have a lot of money (they don't look poor or anything, but they generally don't have earbuds hanging from their ears or fancy cell phones or things like that).

 

There are also stores like that in Port Richmond located near bus stops, and we know Port Richmond, while not a "poor" area, doesn't have a lot of people with a lot of disposable income.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I know it isn't good to stereotype, but the people I see going into those stores don't look like they have a lot of money (they don't look poor or anything, but they generally don't have earbuds hanging from their ears or fancy cell phones or things like that).

 

There are also stores like that in Port Richmond located near bus stops, and we know Port Richmond, while not a "poor" area, doesn't have a lot of people with a lot of disposable income.

 

Actually I certainly wouldn't hesitate to call many parts of Port Richmond poor. Many folks in that area live on food stamps and such. Now some of the houses above or near Forest Avenue are okay and those folks do alright money wise, but as you said they don't have a lot of folks over there with disposable income.

[checkmatechamp13]

Maybe by Richmond Terrace, but most of Port Richmond wouldn't qualify as "poor". You're only comparing it relative to other parts of SI, but compared to the rest of NYC (as well as other cities), I don't think it qualifies.