Should the #319 be scrapped and replaced w/ Greyhound service between NY and Atlantic City

[Shortline Bus]

A question and sorry if sounds 'dumb'? Is there really a need for (NJT)#319 service between NYC and Atlantic City/Cape May when Greyhound already runs 24/7 service also between NYC and the AC area?

 

I was thinking of the following idea.

 

#319 runs as an express only between Toms River and NYC via Lakewood daily from about 5am-1am weekdays and weekends 6am-Midnight.

Greyhound takes over running all 'main' service (non-casino)between PABT and Atlantic City 24/7 with 30-minute service most of the day until late evenings.

Service is extended to/from Cape May couple of times a day.

 

#139 is extended to Toms River overnights and #67 is increased to running every hour 7 days a week(every 2 hours late evenings from 9-11pm) as replacements.

 

#559 also has service increases with a new 559X running 'express' between Pleasentville and Toms River.

 

I ask this question/raise this proposal since on the couple of times I riden the #319 ridership drops dramtically between Toms River and AC. In most cases most of the #319 ridership boards/drops off in Toms River on trips i been on it. One trip AC-bound on a full trip there was only '5' riders left including myself after we left Toms River.

 

Most NY riders already prefer either a 'private' casino bus (also the so called 'botleg' Chinatown buses) or Greyhound which runs all *nonstop* between PABT and AC. Plus IMO it makes better use of (NJT) Howell area buses for where the ridership is.

 

What you guys think?

[qjtransitmaster]

A question and sorry if sounds 'dumb'? Is there really a need for (NJT)#319 service between NYC and Atlantic City/Cape May when Greyhound already runs 24/7 service also between NYC and the AC area?

 

I was thinking of the following idea.

 

#319 runs as an express only between Toms River and NYC via Lakewood daily from about 5am-1am weekdays and weekends 6am-Midnight.

Greyhound takes over running all 'main' service (non-casino)between PABT and Atlantic City 24/7 with 30-minute service most of the day until late evenings.

Service is extended to/from Cape May couple of times a day.

 

#139 is extended to Toms River overnights and #67 is increased to running every hour 7 days a week(every 2 hours late evenings from 9-11pm) as replacements.

 

#559 also has service increases with a new 559X running 'express' between Pleasentville and Toms River.

 

I ask this question/raise this proposal since on the couple of times I riden the #319 ridership drops dramtically between Toms River and AC. In most cases most of the #319 ridership boards/drops off in Toms River on trips i been on it. One trip AC-bound on a full trip there was only '5' riders left including myself after we left Toms River.

 

Most NY riders already prefer either a 'private' casino bus (also the so called 'botleg' Chinatown buses) or Greyhound which runs all *nonstop* between PABT and AC. Plus IMO it makes better use of (NJT) Howell area buses for where the ridership is.

 

What you guys think?

I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the 319. Fine If ur gonna do a 559X just add a stop on 319 and call it a variant of 559. The 559 is 24/7 so 139 has no need to go to toms river not via rte 9 that is.

 

I actually made a proposal that tackled that very issue. However 319 is a multi-purpose line its weakness is horrid connections with other AC buses and lack of direct transfers with 552,551 and many others sometimes wait time can be 30 or more minutes. I would restructure the fare on 319 as follows no monthly passes will be accepted on any off-peak trip However rush hr trips in peak direction would still honor them. The 319's fare will become more realistic to compete with greyhound so fares will start at $1 then increase as seats fill up this applies to toms river to AC as well to try and boost ridership. Create a variant that stops at forked river and bernegat 319 gets enhanced but with a new lower manhattan variant that has a stop at perth amboy and bay ridge brooklyn. Segments of Ocean ride OC5 or 9 get replaced by 319 variants running bihourly to create connections for ocean county ppl. The 60 gets unleashed to bring more ppl to the 319 from monmouth county via park and rides where 800 series rtes link with 60 then ppl from monmouth won't have to drive to south jersey as much so they use 319 and 60. However I have other plans for 800 series to link up more parts of new jersey in a manner that would reduce car usage NJT's weakness is lack of intrastate express service however new rtes are costly my plan uses existing rtes to lessen the burden and absorb other rtes so reshaping rtes is more cost effective than creating a new one entirely. To improve connections some 551 trips can stop at pleasantville or another rte can do it like an 463 extension to pleasantville via airport then the 319 can test itself by having some trips stop at pleasantville for improved connections. One can get 551 via said connections and have the option of rte 9 buses 509 and 507 directly for those not going to AC. I will compare ur plan to mine however I developed mine for a year's time and focused on the whole state rather than just an area

[qjtransitmaster]

A question and sorry if sounds 'dumb'? Is there really a need for (NJT)#319 service between NYC and Atlantic City/Cape May when Greyhound already runs 24/7 service also between NYC and the AC area?

 

I was thinking of the following idea.

 

#319 runs as an express only between Toms River and NYC via Lakewood daily from about 5am-1am weekdays and weekends 6am-Midnight.

Greyhound takes over running all 'main' service (non-casino)between PABT and Atlantic City 24/7 with 30-minute service most of the day until late evenings.

Service is extended to/from Cape May couple of times a day.

 

#139 is extended to Toms River overnights and #67 is increased to running every hour 7 days a week(every 2 hours late evenings from 9-11pm) as replacements.

 

#559 also has service increases with a new 559X running 'express' between Pleasentville and Toms River.

 

I ask this question/raise this proposal since on the couple of times I riden the #319 ridership drops dramtically between Toms River and AC. In most cases most of the #319 ridership boards/drops off in Toms River on trips i been on it. One trip AC-bound on a full trip there was only '5' riders left including myself after we left Toms River.

 

Most NY riders already prefer either a 'private' casino bus (also the so called 'botleg' Chinatown buses) or Greyhound which runs all *nonstop* between PABT and AC. Plus IMO it makes better use of (NJT) Howell area buses for where the ridership is.

 

What you guys think?

you also have to take into account greyhound is an intercity bus operator for profit what incentive do they have to run bus service to cape may??? They will most likely not cooperate as they have nothing to do with NJT planning and may not comply with NJT's demands. Greyhound makes changes when they feel like if anything try keeping 319 on GSP so those 5 riders transfer at pleasantville bus terminal for AC service and to increase ridership have the line go down to cape may more often to differentiate service from greyhound. This way by being more versitile ridership would increase due to greater access of travel destinations. I overheard many ppl on greyhound bus to AC who were actually getting picked up by friends to reach other places in SJ most of em along 500 series bus rtes that stop at pleasantville!!!!! Meaning if the 319 had them there they could get a direct bus via transfer to their final destination without needing a ride. The 319 can become more flexible than greyhound when it comes to stop location. The truth is many(some) ppl using greyhound to AC their final destination is NOT IN AC the trick is to capture those riders and improve connections with lines around high tracffic areas from GSP which increase bus use and make 319 more useful.:cool: However my 319 part is not complete so I have many senarios.

[Shortline Bus]

DJ QJtrainmaster taking a topic and again at times making it more complex than understanding Einstein's 'theory of relativity' LMAO.

[qjtransitmaster]

DJ QJtrainmaster taking a topic and again at times making it more complex than understanding Einstein's 'theory of relativity' LMAO.

 

cmon it's not that hard to understand right??? I tried to be simple. I am simply removing the waste in Ocean called oceanride. when you look at their rtes most look like feeders to express buses on gsp till u see their schedule that is. I had one person bust out laughing after I showed em an oceanride schedule yes the service is that bad!!!!! bihourly would be an improvement thats how bad it is!!!! I just try to fix that by moving the small fry out of the way and using existing rtes so NJT can't say o taking over rtes would cost too much NOT!!!! only if dumb enough to run them with the same service pattern. I only sound complex cause I create chains that cater to several ppl and destinations at once without having to add so much.

[Amtrak7]

I agree, Ocean Ride is better dissolved.

 

However, the 319 SHOULD NOT be eliminated. Doing so would basically split NJT into North and South with barely any linkage between the two divisions except the 317 and 559, both of which are locals.

 

The 319, if necessary, can use some service decreases. If the majority of customers are between Toms River-NY, then how about renumbering more 319 trips 137 and having them start at the P&R? There will always be Atlantic City customers, I for one, would never look to Greyhound unless transit was not available.

 

Fare changes can and should be made, and a reservation system for AC passengers could work to avoid overcrowded summer buses (could also work for 316 and 552...)

[553 Bridgeton]

Ok so let me end this crap idea about the 319 now.

 

NJT had already given Greyhound the majority of the Atlantic City runs; in other words NJT "GAVE" Greyhound the 319. The 319 is a split off with Academy Atlantic City runs also. In other words, you can call Academy's runs the 319.

 

The 319 serves a purpose, it eases the crowds off of the 137 Parkway Express. People from Atlantic City going to Lakewood take a 319 Express to Toms River and xfer to a 559 Lakewood; why? no one wants to sit on a 559 for nearly 3hrs. Those going to Jersey City/Newark, they take the 319 to Toms River and xfer for a 67X or a Route9 67 if they missed a 67X; most 319s are scheduled to meet up with a 67X.

 

Those riding from Lakewood to Atlantic City, xfers to a AC bound 319 in Toms River using a CT ticket, meaning you buy a 16-Zone ticket in Lakewood and ask the driver for a CT, most drivers when we see that 16-Zone will ask if they want the CT. Anyone boarding between Lakewood & Toms River can ask for a CT if they going to AC.

 

 

Northbound/Southbound 67X is a variant of the 319 but people will have to xfer to a southbound 319 to AC in Toms River. The 319 between AC & Ocean City/Wildwood- Cape May eases the crowds off the 552 in the summer.

 

The 319 use to run Local from AC to NY via route 9, then that become what you see now(559/67X/139/ & I forget which 11X route).

 

So to say the 319 should be scrapped you must be insane.

[qjtransitmaster]

Ok so let me end this crap idea about the 319 now.

 

NJT had already given Greyhound the majority of the Atlantic City runs; in other words NJT "GAVE" Greyhound the 319. The 319 is a split off with Academy Atlantic City runs also. In other words, you can call Academy's runs the 319.

 

The 319 serves a purpose, it eases the crowds off of the 137 Parkway Express. People from Atlantic City going to Lakewood take a 319 Express to Toms River and xfer to a 559 Lakewood; why? no one wants to sit on a 559 for nearly 3hrs. Those going to Jersey City/Newark, they take the 319 to Toms River and xfer for a 67X or a Route9 67 if they missed a 67X; most 319s are scheduled to meet up with a 67X.

 

Those riding from Lakewood to Atlantic City, xfers to a AC bound 319 in Toms River using a CT ticket, meaning you buy a 16-Zone ticket in Lakewood and ask the driver for a CT, most drivers when we see that 16-Zone will ask if they want the CT. Anyone boarding between Lakewood & Toms River can ask for a CT if they going to AC.

 

 

Northbound/Southbound 67X is a variant of the 319 but people will have to xfer to a southbound 319 to AC in Toms River. The 319 between AC & Ocean Cit/Wildwoo- Cape May eases the crowds off the 552 in the summer.

 

The 319 use to run Local from AC to NY via route 9, then that become what you see now(559/67X/139/ & I forget which 11X route).

 

So to say the 319 should be scrapped you must be insane.

So true:tup: the 11X line is actually the 116 line. However I don't believe the 319 is being used to it's fullest potential. I had a feeling NJT gave greyhound the rte to free up buses for other NJT routes.

[qjtransitmaster]

I agree, Ocean Ride is better dissolved.

 

However, the 319 SHOULD NOT be eliminated. Doing so would basically split NJT into North and South with barely any linkage between the two divisions except the 317 and 559, both of which are locals.

 

The 319, if necessary, can use some service decreases. If the majority of customers are between Toms River-NY, then how about renumbering more 319 trips 137 and having them start at the P&R? There will always be Atlantic City customers, I for one, would never look to Greyhound unless transit was not available.

 

Fare changes can and should be made, and a reservation system for AC passengers could work to avoid overcrowded summer buses (could also work for 316 and 552...)

 

319 is already bihourly!!!! what decreases can you possibly make without cutting off south jersey??? tri hourly is basically not worth running unless you want to copy oceanride in being utterly useless!!!! I would instead add options by stopping at pleasantville so local ppl wont have to go all the way to AC for a transfer thus reducing travel time. In addition the rte becomes more flexible with more ways to use it and places that can be reached by 319 via better transfers then have the rte just become a cape may rte. The AC runs can become limited stop in atlantic city a limited stop branch of the 505 on atlantic ave en rte to ocean city before heading south. Once I learn more about 319 my plan will be complete. Oceanride has the rtes however their segments can be broken up and merged with NJT rtes with minimal cost to NJT and disruption.

[Shortline Bus]

Correction. During certain periods of the day the #319 does run every hour.

 

 

319 is already bihourly!!!! what decreases can you possibly make without cutting off south jersey??? tri hourly is basically not worth running unless you want to copy oceanride in being utterly useless!!!! I would instead add options by stopping at pleasantville so local ppl wont have to go all the way to AC for a transfer thus reducing travel time. In addition the rte becomes more flexible with more ways to use it and places that can be reached by 319 via better transfers then have the rte just become a cape may rte. The AC runs can become limited stop in atlantic city a limited stop branch of the 505 on atlantic ave en rte to ocean city before heading south. Once I learn more about 319 my plan will be complete. Oceanride has the rtes however their segments can be broken up and merged with NJT rtes with minimal cost to NJT and disruption.

[Amtrak7]

Correction. During certain periods of the day the #319 does run every hour.

 

During the peak season, most of the day is hourly. During the off-peak, I think there is no hourly service.

[qjtransitmaster]

I am aware but a reduction won't cut it with this line greyhounds are above capacity most of the time as well as academy ones too so reducing the price on 319 is the only logical thing they can do that and end the disabled fare on that line and let ppl book ahead for a low fare starting at $1 then going up do this with express long distance lines like an enhancement to academy's willingboro service but extend it and add reservation fare to the line

[SirJokaPlaya]

You can't "BOOK" a trip with NJT. BOOKING a trip is chartering a bus, and that's a major no no since NJT uses FEDERAL GRANTS to pay for the buses, trains, lightrail, bus stops, train stops, train stations, bus stations, and other grants to make NJT work. If the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT heard about NJT using their money and yet allowing passengers to book fares for whatever price, there would be a major shit storm where the Feds would get on NJT like a bad habit for what they're doing, if they do it. Just like the Feds are getting on Christie for terminating the ARC Tunnel. That money has to be paid back. If NJT decides on using Federal money for whatever instead of what it's supposed to be used for, NJT has to pay that money back.

[qjtransitmaster]

You can't "BOOK" a trip with NJT. BOOKING a trip is chartering a bus, and that's a major no no since NJT uses FEDERAL GRANTS to pay for the buses, trains, lightrail, bus stops, train stops, train stations, bus stations, and other grants to make NJT work. If the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT heard about NJT using their money and yet allowing passengers to book fares for whatever price, there would be a major shit storm where the Feds would get on NJT like a bad habit for what they're doing, if they do it. Just like the Feds are getting on Christie for terminating the ARC Tunnel. That money has to be paid back. If NJT decides on using Federal money for whatever instead of what it's supposed to be used for, NJT has to pay that money back.

 

So they basically can't try to compete with greyhound with megabus type pricing??? Couldn't NJT contract out the 319 with others for all trips even cape may ones or reduce its price to attract riders

[PinePower]

OK now that is just crazy!:confused:

 

Most 319 trips, especially in the summer are pretty crowded. Many take it to A/C as well, others between Toms River and AC. It has to up there with NJT's most patronized bus lines, so I doubt they'd give it to Greyhound.

The line does very well as it is, no need to mess with a good thing.

Your idea means a longer trip for ppl from Toms River too. I think this one belongs in the trash heap..:tdown:

[PinePower]

cmon it's not that hard to understand right??? I tried to be simple. I am simply removing the waste in Ocean called oceanride. when you look at their rtes most look like feeders to express buses on gsp till u see their schedule that is. I had one person bust out laughing after I showed em an oceanride schedule yes the service is that bad!!!!! bihourly would be an improvement thats how bad it is!!!! I just try to fix that by moving the small fry out of the way and using existing rtes so NJT can't say o taking over rtes would cost too much NOT!!!! only if dumb enough to run them with the same service pattern. I only sound complex cause I create chains that cater to several ppl and destinations at once without having to add so much.

 

Yeah Oceanride needs to go. There should be some more crosstowns like between Lakehurst, Toms River, and Seaside via Rt.37.

Also there should be full time GSP express via Rt.549 service for Brick which really needs more service.

Many in Brick wind up going down to TR bus term (backtracking) to get to/from NYC esp on weekends.

[PinePower]

So they basically can't try to compete with greyhound with megabus type pricing??? Couldn't NJT contract out the 319 with others for all trips even cape may ones or reduce its price to attract riders

 

Disaster...disaster....no way:tdown:

[B35 via Church]

A question and sorry if sounds 'dumb'? Is there really a need for (NJT)#319 service between NYC and Atlantic City/Cape May when Greyhound already runs 24/7 service also between NYC and the AC area?

 

I was thinking of the following idea.

 

#319 runs as an express only between Toms River and NYC via Lakewood daily from about 5am-1am weekdays and weekends 6am-Midnight.

Greyhound takes over running all 'main' service (non-casino)between PABT and Atlantic City 24/7 with 30-minute service most of the day until late evenings.

Service is extended to/from Cape May couple of times a day.

 

#139 is extended to Toms River overnights and #67 is increased to running every hour 7 days a week(every 2 hours late evenings from 9-11pm) as replacements.

 

#559 also has service increases with a new 559X running 'express' between Pleasentville and Toms River.

 

I ask this question/raise this proposal since on the couple of times I riden the #319 ridership drops dramtically between Toms River and AC. In most cases most of the #319 ridership boards/drops off in Toms River on trips i been on it. One trip AC-bound on a full trip there was only '5' riders left including myself after we left Toms River.

 

Most NY riders already prefer either a 'private' casino bus (also the so called 'botleg' Chinatown buses) or Greyhound which runs all *nonstop* between PABT and AC. Plus IMO it makes better use of (NJT) Howell area buses for where the ridership is.

 

What you guys think?

Real simple.

 

The 139 would act as a "local" to NYC.... 319 itself runs nonstop b/w Toms River & NYC....

The 559 means NOTHING to a NYC rider... absolutely nothin...

 

You extend the 139 from Lakewood to Toms River, and you know what you'll end up getting...

 

Increased Ridership b/w Toms River & Atlantic City On The 319

 

That's funny... your intent is to basically kill off the 319, when you make a point that actually makes the route more useful !!

[Cait Sith]

I have a question regarding the 319, how many short turn trips does it have? I seen some to Cape May, Jersey City and a few other spots.

[B35 via Church]

I have a question regarding the 319, how many short turn trips does it have? I seen some to Cape May, Jersey City and a few other spots.

 

depends what you consider a short turn on that route... I look at the different service patterns of the 319 as different variants, as opposed to short turns.... but in any event:

 

- there's about 3 Jersey city - AC runs...

- 1 or 2 runs from AC - Cape May (at least)

 

 

AFAIK, there are no 319 runs that start from say, Toms River.....

[Cait Sith]

depends what you consider a short turn on that route... I look at the different service patterns of the 319 as different variants, as opposed to short turns.... but in any event:

 

- there's about 3 Jersey city - AC runs...

- 1 or 2 runs from AC - Cape May (at least)

 

 

AFAIK, there are no 319 runs that start from say, Toms River.....

 

Well I've always looked at the route as the NYC-Atlantic City route with a few short turns/variants considering how long the route is. Though your post explains a lot. :tup:

[qjtransitmaster]

Real simple.

 

The 139 would act as a "local" to NYC.... 319 itself runs nonstop b/w Toms River & NYC....

The 559 means NOTHING to a NYC rider... absolutely nothin...

 

You extend the 139 from Lakewood to Toms River, and you know what you'll end up getting...

 

Increased Ridership b/w Toms River & Atlantic City On The 319

 

That's funny... your intent is to basically kill off the 319, when you make a point that actually makes the route more useful !!

 

smart one I was wondering when u were going to say this:cool: I am glad i am not the only one suggesting this

[Shortline Bus]

Real simple.

 

The 139 would act as a "local" to NYC.... 319 itself runs nonstop b/w Toms River & NYC....

The 559 means NOTHING to a NYC rider... absolutely nothin...

 

You extend the 139 from Lakewood to Toms River, and you know what you'll end up getting...

 

Increased Ridership b/w Toms River & Atlantic City On The 319

 

That's funny... your intent is to basically kill off the 319, when you make a point that actually makes the route more useful !!

 

 

Oh yeah great idea (B35):tup:

 

Seriously the idea was to increase ridership on the 319 (the AC-Toms River)southern section. I thought by trying to 'restucture' the 319(ending the Toms River-AC section), 67, 559 and 139 would have helped. I created this topic since i am amazed how small the ridership the #319 gets *south* of Toms River. Then every seat/SRO only from Toms River North on most #319 trips.

 

Instead B35, and QJ came up with a better alternative. During most of the day every other 139(about every hour)could run between Toms River and NY w/ 'short trips' ending in Lakewood or Freehold Raceway Mall. After 11pm-5am(Sundays until 9am)all 139's run between Toms River and NYC.

 

So how about this new set up guys.

 

139 Toms River-NYC

short trips between PABT and Freehold or Lakewood

559 Northern terminal shortned to Toms River

67 service runs every hour most of the day (Monday-Saturdays)between Newark Penn Station and Lakewood. Every other bus (every 2 hours Monday-Saturday) and all trips Sundays extended to Toms River.

67X 1-2 added 'express' trips per day in each direction during summer season

between Journal Sq-JC/Newark and Toms River.

137 increased service between NYC and Toms River as a supplemental route to the 319 running every '2' hours daily appx. 5am(6am Sundays)-11pm. Operates 'local' via Route 9 between Toms River and Lakewood then 'express' to/from NYC.

319 Minor changes as headways reduced to every 2 hours (except for couple of 'peak trips)and makes an additional stop in the Pleasentville area for connection for South NJ Coast routes to Ocean City, Cape May, etc.

 

 

More 'local' bus service between Toms River and Jackson, NJ during the summer weekends to connect to NY-bound 137, 139 and 319 service for Great Adventure customers. Ditto for more 'feeder' service to Seaside Heights and Toms River as well.

[Amtrak7]

I have a question regarding the 319, how many short turn trips does it have? I seen some to Cape May, Jersey City and a few other spots.

 

These are the 319 service patterns:

 

New York-AC

New York-Wildwood/Cape May (only one trip off peak, many peak)

AC-Wildwood/Cape May

Jersey City-AC

 

Of course there are many different express runs on the NY-Wildwood/Cape May trips during the summer.

[553 Bridgeton]

I have a question regarding the 319, how many short turn trips does it have? I seen some to Cape May, Jersey City and a few other spots.

 

There are no short turns. Every northbound bus goes to New York, the Newark/Jersey City buses are basically 67X's extended to/from Atlantic City. Only diff is its called the 319.

 

Ocean City/Wildwood/Cape May buses are mostly during the peak hrs, and provides extra service for the 510/552 to ease the crowds during those peak hours.

 

Some of you saying 5 riders between Toms Rivers & Atlantic is a waste. Not with the 319. Those 5 riders wana get to AC fast. Its only 54mins, depending on the driver. Depending on the time of day that ride between AC & Toms river can be a sardine can.

 

 

 

The 559 means NOTHING to a NYC rider... absolutely nothin...

 

Actually it does. There are many people below Toms River on the 559 who depend on it to get to Toms River for a 137 Parkway Exp & 319. As for the normal rider New York means nothing to them.

 

I seen someone mention the 319 stopping in Pleasantville; um no, it would completely kill the purpose of a fast way to AC for those wanting to get there. There is no demand for a 319 in Pleasantville; those of you who say likewise, become a driver. Why in the hell would you send a bus somewhere its not needed. Those people in Pleasantville can easily hop on a 502, 507, 508, 509, 554, 559 and the early AM 553s for ACBT.

 

The 319 is a 300 series route for a reason. Just because it can go anywhere, doesn't mean "o send it to Pleasantville.