68th Street Rehab (NIMBYism at its Finest)

[SubwayGuy]

Which is it? Earlier you said that they're aren't many homeless people on the Upper East Side and that they won't congregate there anyway because they would be taken away, but now they are homeless people everywhere? Talk about flip-flopping. Thank you for making my point. The homeless folks are flocking to 5th Avenue and other affluent parts of the city in droves and this is certainly NOT what the Upper East Side needs with the economic disaster on 2nd Avenue. What should be happening is that these homeless folks should be given help. I see several homeless folks that are clearly in need of psychological help that are out and about everyday talking to themselves and such. All it takes is one incident for them to snap.

 

Apparently two simple points are blowing your mind so I will make them in bulleted form so that you (perhaps) understand them:

1-Relative to other sections of the subway, less homeless people "live" inside UES subway stations

2-Homeless people, however, are everywhere in this city, including on the UES, and the addition of one new subway entrance to an already existing station is not going to cause more homeless people to congregate in that station.

 

Oh please. Don't even try it. Eric Gioia represents several neighborhoods (Woodside, Sunnyside, Long Island City, Astoria and Maspeth) and Woodside and Sunnyside are hard working middle class areas.

 

The rest of those are not, and Long Island City has had its concerns voiced the most frequently and most loudest...because that's where the moneyed interests are.

 

No offense, but I lived blocks from the Sheepshead Bay train station for almost all of my life and most of the Russians don't even speak English, so what sort of "peep" would you expect?? :confused:

 

Ah, yes, the old "the poor people don't speak any English" argument. Care to try again?

 

Yet another example of your hypocrisy. You can't stand folks on the Upper East Side and yet you live there. I knew it was something...

 

On the contrary...I remember this neighborhood when it was more middle class before all these out of town complainers moved in and joined forces with the old bitties that everyone here used to mock and deride.

 

Yeah yeah yeah... Just keep on bashing the Upper East Side. If you hate the folks over there so much, then what in the world are you doing living there?? :confused: Makes no sense to me.

 

I'm not bashing anything except the willingness of those with nothing better to do to fight pointless battles. I'm sure if you took a general survey of the subway riding population living between 65th and 72nd streets, between York and Madison Avenue - a majority of them would actually favor adding a second entrance.

 

Well let's see... 72nd street is a high density area so yeah considering the mess that they're created on the Upper East Side you can call it a drop in the bucket. Yeah, how many businesses have gone under because of the (MTA)up there?? :tdown:

 

Most of the businesses that have suffered the most because of SAS construction are north of 86th Street.

 

Oh no, folks with old money... Now isn't that a crime in a capitalist society...

 

It's not a crime, but it shows who society seems to want to listen to. ALL MEN AND WOMEN ARE CREATED EQUAL but in your world I guess only those with money matter.

 

Oh don't even try it. I was one of the few who stood up for the disabled in previous threads when others were sitting here talking about how we don't need to build ADA stations because they're a minority.

 

Like I said, wasn't in those threads so I don't know what you're talking about, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

 

Of course it has nothing to do with the disabled because you just want to slam the affluent folks and I'm going to call you on it.

 

I slam anyone who stands in the way of progress and improvement. If they attempt to use their money to stand in the way of progress and improvement, then I'm going to call them out on that too.

 

I was in them and I'm calling them out too. Bunch of hypocrites.

 

Again, wasn't in those threads...

 

My question is why can't they even look at other options first? Is that such a crime? I'm not disputing it being a law. All I'm saying is that they should try to work with the community to find a better alternative that makes both sides happy; the community and the riders. There is nothing at all wrong with that, but in case there's a problem only because the community happens to be of money so let's deny them their request to punish them because they have money right? Talk about a cheap shot.

 

And all I'm saying is what other options are there? An entrance exists at 68th Street, an entrance does not exist at 69th Street. Other streets are not within station limits.

 

Hmm... Well try telling that to the women that are being attacked that are walking from the train station.

 

People don't blame the subway for the spike in crime. Do you even pay attention to the news with what's going on in Sunset Park?

 

Really? And what proof do you have that it won't?

 

What proof do you have that it will besides the irrational fear mongering of a few rich people?

 

Yeah jealous another hater... Typical...

 

Ah yes, we're back to your logic...anyone that rips the rich for their hypocrisy and exclusive self interest must be "jealous". We don't care about their stupid money, we are tired of hearing about it, and we are sick of them using it to get their way while those without money simply have to "deal with it" at every twist and turn.

[Wallyhorse]

Like I said:

 

If the elitists are so dead-set against an entrance at 69th Street, then I would move that entrance one block north to 70th (if necessary, extending the 68th Street station southward to accommodate a new 70th street exit).

[Wallyhorse]

Like I said:

 

If the elitists are so dead-set against an entrance at 69th Street, then I would move that entrance one block north to 70th (if necessary, extending the 68th Street station southward to accommodate a new 70th street exit).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'll criticize the subway when I see fit. This isn't one of those times.

 

Well now that's a shocker....

 

 

Again, you fail to comprehend the fact that it would take at least ten buses to replace one train, especially if you're talking about shutting down important lines (i.e., most of the subway lines). You can argue with me, but you can't argue with figures and you sure can't convince me that better bus depot maintenance will allow for complete line shutdowns for any reason, especially during rush hours.

 

Again, I NEVER said complete line shutdowns. I don't know where you're getting that from. Seems like you're the one who fails to comprehend certain things.

 

 

And what lines would meet your criteria to be shut down overnights? Because, last time I checked, most lines are used quite heavily even during the late nights. The only lines you could even think of getting away with closing are the Dyre, Myrtle Ave and Rockaway Park shuttles. And even if you shut down those lines, they still have to pay for shuttle buses since for all three examples I just gave, there aren't any buses that parallel those lines and the one that runs along the Rockaway Park shuttle doesn't run late nights.

 

Well yeah of course, but for example I would shut down the shuttle and just run a shuttle bus after a certain time. There are only a handful of people on the say from 59th to 95th, so have one or two artics run that part of the route and call it a day, this those stations could be cleaned or whatever for the hours that the isn't running. That's one example. There are other instances where you could have folks use alternate routes on lines where you have multiple trains running. We're talking about late at night and NOT all lines need to have trains running because the ridership isn't that high on some lines in the early morning.

 

Again, how should they go about this? There aren't a whole lot of options on how to handle this. Without paying through the nose in expensive tunneling to put the new exit on another intersection, their only option is to build the new exits on 69th and Lexington or not build them at all.

 

TwoTimer made a suggestion that make sense... I don't see why more accomodations can't be made at the current stop. I've gotten off at 68th street plenty of times and they could perhaps make improvements without spending a fortune either.

 

 

I don't know, maybe the thousands of people who use the Kings Hwy station. Like I said before, Kings Hwy has more riders than the rest of the Brighton stations. And also remember, the pays for the ADA accessibility renovations out of their own pockets, so they can only make so many stations accessible without running out of money. They can only do the ones they deem are important.

 

And again, who is supposed to be using it if just about all of the other stations on the line in Brooklyn are NOT ADA accessible? That's a legitimate question that you're trying to skip over. I mean what sense does it make to have ONE ADA station on the Brighton Line for several stops? What happens if that one station isn't accessible for some reason (i.e. elevators are broken, which can and does happen frequently?) If they're going to do one then you have to give passengers more ADA stations that are close by. What is the next station before and after Kings Hwy that IS ADA accessible?? :confused:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'll criticize the subway when I see fit. This isn't one of those times.

 

Well now that's a shocker....

 

 

Again, you fail to comprehend the fact that it would take at least ten buses to replace one train, especially if you're talking about shutting down important lines (i.e., most of the subway lines). You can argue with me, but you can't argue with figures and you sure can't convince me that better bus depot maintenance will allow for complete line shutdowns for any reason, especially during rush hours.

 

Again, I NEVER said complete line shutdowns. I don't know where you're getting that from. Seems like you're the one who fails to comprehend certain things.

 

 

And what lines would meet your criteria to be shut down overnights? Because, last time I checked, most lines are used quite heavily even during the late nights. The only lines you could even think of getting away with closing are the Dyre, Myrtle Ave and Rockaway Park shuttles. And even if you shut down those lines, they still have to pay for shuttle buses since for all three examples I just gave, there aren't any buses that parallel those lines and the one that runs along the Rockaway Park shuttle doesn't run late nights.

 

Well yeah of course, but for example I would shut down the shuttle and just run a shuttle bus after a certain time. There are only a handful of people on the say from 59th to 95th, so have one or two artics run that part of the route and call it a day, this those stations could be cleaned or whatever for the hours that the isn't running. That's one example. There are other instances where you could have folks use alternate routes on lines where you have multiple trains running. We're talking about late at night and NOT all lines need to have trains running because the ridership isn't that high on some lines in the early morning.

 

Again, how should they go about this? There aren't a whole lot of options on how to handle this. Without paying through the nose in expensive tunneling to put the new exit on another intersection, their only option is to build the new exits on 69th and Lexington or not build them at all.

 

TwoTimer made a suggestion that make sense... I don't see why more accomodations can't be made at the current stop. I've gotten off at 68th street plenty of times and they could perhaps make improvements without spending a fortune either.

 

 

I don't know, maybe the thousands of people who use the Kings Hwy station. Like I said before, Kings Hwy has more riders than the rest of the Brighton stations. And also remember, the pays for the ADA accessibility renovations out of their own pockets, so they can only make so many stations accessible without running out of money. They can only do the ones they deem are important.

 

And again, who is supposed to be using it if just about all of the other stations on the line in Brooklyn are NOT ADA accessible? That's a legitimate question that you're trying to skip over. I mean what sense does it make to have ONE ADA station on the Brighton Line for several stops? What happens if that one station isn't accessible for some reason (i.e. elevators are broken, which can and does happen frequently?) If they're going to do one then you have to give passengers more ADA stations that are close by. What is the next station before and after Kings Hwy that IS ADA accessible?? :confused:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Apparently two simple points are blowing your mind so I will make them in bulleted form so that you (perhaps) understand them:

1-Relative to other sections of the subway, less homeless people "live" inside UES subway stations

2-Homeless people, however, are everywhere in this city, including on the UES, and the addition of one new subway entrance to an already existing station is not going to cause more homeless people to congregate in that station.

 

Oh I read very clearly... You just need to stop flip-flopping that's all and trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist. Sure, fewer of them live inside UES subway stations, but their presence is certainly growing. On 5th Avenue we didn't have all of these bums and now there's at least 3 or 4 of them that appear regularly and hang around and such, and Grand Central Station in the Dining Concourse... Ugh they're everywhere.

 

I don't eat down there anymore. I just get food from the concourse downstairs if I don't eat at La Fonda del Sol and bring it back to the office :eek: The homeless population is growing across the city and there is nothing to suggest that they won't grow on the Upper East Side at that station depending on how the new entrance is construscted. If there is shelter there and it is warm enough, believe me they will come. That station there at Park Ave South & 23rd on the line with that entrance there that goes past a building draws quite a few homeless folks because it keeps them sheltered from the elements better than most places, so they have a legitimate gripe.

 

 

The rest of those are not, and Long Island City has had its concerns voiced the most frequently and most loudest...because that's where the moneyed interests are.

 

Of course you would say that. Anything to try to make it seem like it's only the rich that complain and only the rich that have a voice.

 

 

Ah, yes, the old "the poor people don't speak any English" argument. Care to try again?

 

No, I was correct the first time, so no need to try again. I know the area well. I lived in Sheepshead Bay for a good 17 years before moving to Midwood.

 

On the contrary...I remember this neighborhood when it was more middle class before all these out of town complainers moved in and joined forces with the old bitties that everyone here used to mock and deride.

 

Oh please... The Upper East Side didn't just suddenly become affluent over night. The place has always been known for old money for a reason.

 

 

I'm not bashing anything except the willingness of those with nothing better to do to fight pointless battles. I'm sure if you took a general survey of the subway riding population living between 65th and 72nd streets, between York and Madison Avenue - a majority of them would actually favor adding a second entrance.

 

Yes, it's always pointless when those with money complain because since they have money they should just be satisfied and accept things as is. That's your attitude and you've been stating it repeatedly in numerous posts indirectly. Money does NOT solve all problems and I don't know when you folks will understand that and folks that have more of it should not feel less empowered or emboldened to act on their concerns when problems arise because they have more wealth than others. That's a completely asinine statement.

 

 

Most of the businesses that have suffered the most because of SAS construction are north of 86th Street.

 

Yes, most, but still the Upper East as a whole has suffered from this mess.

 

 

It's not a crime, but it shows who society seems to want to listen to. ALL MEN AND WOMEN ARE CREATED EQUAL but in your world I guess only those with money matter.

 

Don't be ridiculous. I always like to stand up for the minority and those under attack because there are two sides to every story and it's preposterous to paint everyone with money as being elitist, restless snobs. :tdown::tdown:

 

 

Like I said, wasn't in those threads so I don't know what you're talking about, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

 

It is most certainly relevant because it shows very clearly what people will do to take a shot at those with more wealth. All before folks could give a rats' @ss about the disabled as they're a "minority" in this city, but now because more affluent folks are complaining a subway entrance that involves ADA accessibility, suddenly they're trying to demonize the wealthy folks and trying to act as if they care oh so much about the disabled.

 

I slam anyone who stands in the way of progress and improvement. If they attempt to use their money to stand in the way of progress and improvement, then I'm going to call them out on that too.

 

Hmmm.... And it's just by chance that the "anyone" is always those with more wealth right??

 

Again, wasn't in those threads...

 

I know you weren't but others were and I'm calling them out on their BS and hypocrisy.

 

 

And all I'm saying is what other options are there? An entrance exists at 68th Street, an entrance does not exist at 69th Street. Other streets are not within station limits.

 

Why can't they think outside of the box or better yet make the current space work better? I don't think they've explored all options, and you're very eager to give them a easy pass... Just what they like... A free pass...

 

 

People don't blame the subway for the spike in crime. Do you even pay attention to the news with what's going on in Sunset Park?

 

Oh please.... Are you aware of how many women have been attacked while walking from the subway? The subways are most certainly a good indication as to how crime is overall and it is interesting to see how a spike in crime overall has occurred at the same time that a spike in subway crime has occurred.

 

 

What proof do you have that it will besides the irrational fear mongering of a few rich people?

 

I knew you would ask that... How about personal experience. I've been riding the subway for years now and like I said, depending on how the entrance is to this station it could very well bring more bums. :tdown::tdown::tdown:

 

 

Ah yes, we're back to your logic...anyone that rips the rich for their hypocrisy and exclusive self interest must be "jealous". We don't care about their stupid money, we are tired of hearing about it, and we are sick of them using it to get their way while those without money simply have to "deal with it" at every twist and turn.

 

That's funny because just about everyone here who has criticized them has c commented REPEATEDLY on their money and social standing so that is certainly a big fat wet sloppy lie.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Apparently two simple points are blowing your mind so I will make them in bulleted form so that you (perhaps) understand them:

1-Relative to other sections of the subway, less homeless people "live" inside UES subway stations

2-Homeless people, however, are everywhere in this city, including on the UES, and the addition of one new subway entrance to an already existing station is not going to cause more homeless people to congregate in that station.

 

Oh I read very clearly... You just need to stop flip-flopping that's all and trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist. Sure, fewer of them live inside UES subway stations, but their presence is certainly growing. On 5th Avenue we didn't have all of these bums and now there's at least 3 or 4 of them that appear regularly and hang around and such, and Grand Central Station in the Dining Concourse... Ugh they're everywhere.

 

I don't eat down there anymore. I just get food from the concourse downstairs if I don't eat at La Fonda del Sol and bring it back to the office :eek: The homeless population is growing across the city and there is nothing to suggest that they won't grow on the Upper East Side at that station depending on how the new entrance is construscted. If there is shelter there and it is warm enough, believe me they will come. That station there at Park Ave South & 23rd on the line with that entrance there that goes past a building draws quite a few homeless folks because it keeps them sheltered from the elements better than most places, so they have a legitimate gripe.

 

 

The rest of those are not, and Long Island City has had its concerns voiced the most frequently and most loudest...because that's where the moneyed interests are.

 

Of course you would say that. Anything to try to make it seem like it's only the rich that complain and only the rich that have a voice.

 

 

Ah, yes, the old "the poor people don't speak any English" argument. Care to try again?

 

No, I was correct the first time, so no need to try again. I know the area well. I lived in Sheepshead Bay for a good 17 years before moving to Midwood.

 

On the contrary...I remember this neighborhood when it was more middle class before all these out of town complainers moved in and joined forces with the old bitties that everyone here used to mock and deride.

 

Oh please... The Upper East Side didn't just suddenly become affluent over night. The place has always been known for old money for a reason.

 

 

I'm not bashing anything except the willingness of those with nothing better to do to fight pointless battles. I'm sure if you took a general survey of the subway riding population living between 65th and 72nd streets, between York and Madison Avenue - a majority of them would actually favor adding a second entrance.

 

Yes, it's always pointless when those with money complain because since they have money they should just be satisfied and accept things as is. That's your attitude and you've been stating it repeatedly in numerous posts indirectly. Money does NOT solve all problems and I don't know when you folks will understand that and folks that have more of it should not feel less empowered or emboldened to act on their concerns when problems arise because they have more wealth than others. That's a completely asinine statement.

 

 

Most of the businesses that have suffered the most because of SAS construction are north of 86th Street.

 

Yes, most, but still the Upper East as a whole has suffered from this mess.

 

 

It's not a crime, but it shows who society seems to want to listen to. ALL MEN AND WOMEN ARE CREATED EQUAL but in your world I guess only those with money matter.

 

Don't be ridiculous. I always like to stand up for the minority and those under attack because there are two sides to every story and it's preposterous to paint everyone with money as being elitist, restless snobs. :tdown::tdown:

 

 

Like I said, wasn't in those threads so I don't know what you're talking about, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

 

It is most certainly relevant because it shows very clearly what people will do to take a shot at those with more wealth. All before folks could give a rats' @ss about the disabled as they're a "minority" in this city, but now because more affluent folks are complaining a subway entrance that involves ADA accessibility, suddenly they're trying to demonize the wealthy folks and trying to act as if they care oh so much about the disabled.

 

I slam anyone who stands in the way of progress and improvement. If they attempt to use their money to stand in the way of progress and improvement, then I'm going to call them out on that too.

 

Hmmm.... And it's just by chance that the "anyone" is always those with more wealth right??

 

Again, wasn't in those threads...

 

I know you weren't but others were and I'm calling them out on their BS and hypocrisy.

 

 

And all I'm saying is what other options are there? An entrance exists at 68th Street, an entrance does not exist at 69th Street. Other streets are not within station limits.

 

Why can't they think outside of the box or better yet make the current space work better? I don't think they've explored all options, and you're very eager to give them a easy pass... Just what they like... A free pass...

 

 

People don't blame the subway for the spike in crime. Do you even pay attention to the news with what's going on in Sunset Park?

 

Oh please.... Are you aware of how many women have been attacked while walking from the subway? The subways are most certainly a good indication as to how crime is overall and it is interesting to see how a spike in crime overall has occurred at the same time that a spike in subway crime has occurred.

 

 

What proof do you have that it will besides the irrational fear mongering of a few rich people?

 

I knew you would ask that... How about personal experience. I've been riding the subway for years now and like I said, depending on how the entrance is to this station it could very well bring more bums. :tdown::tdown::tdown:

 

 

Ah yes, we're back to your logic...anyone that rips the rich for their hypocrisy and exclusive self interest must be "jealous". We don't care about their stupid money, we are tired of hearing about it, and we are sick of them using it to get their way while those without money simply have to "deal with it" at every twist and turn.

 

That's funny because just about everyone here who has criticized them has c commented REPEATEDLY on their money and social standing so that is certainly a big fat wet sloppy lie.

[CenSin]

I'm surprised to see an unprecedented amount of fuss over building a new entrance. What were the real, legitimate concerns again?

[CenSin]

I'm surprised to see an unprecedented amount of fuss over building a new entrance. What were the real, legitimate concerns again?

[SmallParkShuttle]

Here is a link to the (MTA)'s CB8's presentation:

 

http://www.cb8m.com/sites/default/files/10.07.11.2%202011-09-19%2068th%20Community%20Board%20%20Presentation.pdf

 

I am also pretty sure that a good number of the people complaining against this don't even use the subway.

 

It is elitist when I try and propose an idea, and you turn around and blindly call my efforts "a charade" because of your preconceived notions.

[SmallParkShuttle]

Here is a link to the (MTA)'s CB8's presentation:

 

http://www.cb8m.com/sites/default/files/10.07.11.2%202011-09-19%2068th%20Community%20Board%20%20Presentation.pdf

 

I am also pretty sure that a good number of the people complaining against this don't even use the subway.

 

It is elitist when I try and propose an idea, and you turn around and blindly call my efforts "a charade" because of your preconceived notions.

[Guest lance25]

Well now that's a shocker....

 

What's a "shocker"? The fact that I don't hold the subway system to impossible to meet standards or that while there are serious concerns plaguing the system, I don't feel the need to complain at every opportunity like you do?

 

 

Again, I NEVER said complete line shutdowns. I don't know where you're getting that from. Seems like you're the one who fails to comprehend certain things.

 

I comprehend it perfectly. You seem to always forget that the subway system is interconnected and you just can't shut down a few stations on a certain line unless the track layout allows it. You can get away with it on lines like the West End and Brighton (limited locations only). Riders would still be livid at the prospect of having to use shuttle buses during rush hour though. However, most of the system doesn't allow for such service patterns. Take the White Plains Road line in the Bronx. You want to shut down a portion of the line for renovations there, you'd have to shut down the entire line between E 180 St and 149 St-Grand Concourse. Same thing for the Sea Beach line. The entire line between 59 St/4 Av and Coney Island would be out of service.

 

Well yeah of course, but for example I would shut down the shuttle and just run a shuttle bus after a certain time. There are only a handful of people on the say from 59th to 95th, so have one or two artics run that part of the route and call it a day, this those stations could be cleaned or whatever for the hours that the isn't running. That's one example. There are other instances where you could have folks use alternate routes on lines where you have multiple trains running. We're talking about late at night and NOT all lines need to have trains running because the ridership isn't that high on some lines in the early morning.

 

That's just one example, another shuttle line. What would you propose for lines like the Manhattan trunks, Queens Blvd or the Coney Island lines for example? I bet if tried something like that, your idea would be shot down immediately. Just face facts, while the overnight shuttles don't receive that many riders, it doesn't mean the rest of the system doesn't as well. Shutting down parts of the subway will only inconvenience the significant amount of riders, but will only cost the more money in shuttle bus operations. And how much do you want to bet they won't get much accomplished since they'd only have a few hours to actually do something.

 

 

 

TwoTimer made a suggestion that make sense... I don't see why more accomodations can't be made at the current stop. I've gotten off at 68th street plenty of times and they could perhaps make improvements without spending a fortune either.

 

Or they can meet their ADA requirement as to not face any legal action from the federal government for lack of compliance. That would probably be best for everyone involved because, let's face it, any money the agency loses from the feds will only come from us through fare hikes and service cuts.

 

 

And again, who is supposed to be using it if just about all of the other stations on the line in Brooklyn are NOT ADA accessible? That's a legitimate question that you're trying to skip over. I mean what sense does it make to have ONE ADA station on the Brighton Line for several stops? What happens if that one station isn't accessible for some reason (i.e. elevators are broken, which can and does happen frequently?) If they're going to do one then you have to give passengers more ADA stations that are close by. What is the next station before and after Kings Hwy that IS ADA accessible?? :confused:

 

Kings Hwy is the busiest station on Brighton. It only makes sense that this particular station gets ADA accessibility first. While I'd love for every station on every line to be accessible, it's not financially feasible. Installing elevators and building ramps into stations originally not designed for them is ******* expensive. The agency has to choose where to put install them at stations that will be most beneficial, i.e., important transfer points and/or being busy stations. Kings Hwy has both, whereas stations like Cortelyou and Beverley don't have either. The only Brighton station that comes close to the amount of riders and connections Kings Hwy has is Sheepshead Bay, which wasn't part of the Brighton rehab project over these past few years. It's all about priorities.

 

As for the mechanical breakdowns argument, everything breaks down at some point. That's why there's the elevator outages page on the (MTA)'s website, so disabled riders can plan ahead.

[Guest lance25]

Well now that's a shocker....

 

What's a "shocker"? The fact that I don't hold the subway system to impossible to meet standards or that while there are serious concerns plaguing the system, I don't feel the need to complain at every opportunity like you do?

 

 

Again, I NEVER said complete line shutdowns. I don't know where you're getting that from. Seems like you're the one who fails to comprehend certain things.

 

I comprehend it perfectly. You seem to always forget that the subway system is interconnected and you just can't shut down a few stations on a certain line unless the track layout allows it. You can get away with it on lines like the West End and Brighton (limited locations only). Riders would still be livid at the prospect of having to use shuttle buses during rush hour though. However, most of the system doesn't allow for such service patterns. Take the White Plains Road line in the Bronx. You want to shut down a portion of the line for renovations there, you'd have to shut down the entire line between E 180 St and 149 St-Grand Concourse. Same thing for the Sea Beach line. The entire line between 59 St/4 Av and Coney Island would be out of service.

 

Well yeah of course, but for example I would shut down the shuttle and just run a shuttle bus after a certain time. There are only a handful of people on the say from 59th to 95th, so have one or two artics run that part of the route and call it a day, this those stations could be cleaned or whatever for the hours that the isn't running. That's one example. There are other instances where you could have folks use alternate routes on lines where you have multiple trains running. We're talking about late at night and NOT all lines need to have trains running because the ridership isn't that high on some lines in the early morning.

 

That's just one example, another shuttle line. What would you propose for lines like the Manhattan trunks, Queens Blvd or the Coney Island lines for example? I bet if tried something like that, your idea would be shot down immediately. Just face facts, while the overnight shuttles don't receive that many riders, it doesn't mean the rest of the system doesn't as well. Shutting down parts of the subway will only inconvenience the significant amount of riders, but will only cost the more money in shuttle bus operations. And how much do you want to bet they won't get much accomplished since they'd only have a few hours to actually do something.

 

 

 

TwoTimer made a suggestion that make sense... I don't see why more accomodations can't be made at the current stop. I've gotten off at 68th street plenty of times and they could perhaps make improvements without spending a fortune either.

 

Or they can meet their ADA requirement as to not face any legal action from the federal government for lack of compliance. That would probably be best for everyone involved because, let's face it, any money the agency loses from the feds will only come from us through fare hikes and service cuts.

 

 

And again, who is supposed to be using it if just about all of the other stations on the line in Brooklyn are NOT ADA accessible? That's a legitimate question that you're trying to skip over. I mean what sense does it make to have ONE ADA station on the Brighton Line for several stops? What happens if that one station isn't accessible for some reason (i.e. elevators are broken, which can and does happen frequently?) If they're going to do one then you have to give passengers more ADA stations that are close by. What is the next station before and after Kings Hwy that IS ADA accessible?? :confused:

 

Kings Hwy is the busiest station on Brighton. It only makes sense that this particular station gets ADA accessibility first. While I'd love for every station on every line to be accessible, it's not financially feasible. Installing elevators and building ramps into stations originally not designed for them is ******* expensive. The agency has to choose where to put install them at stations that will be most beneficial, i.e., important transfer points and/or being busy stations. Kings Hwy has both, whereas stations like Cortelyou and Beverley don't have either. The only Brighton station that comes close to the amount of riders and connections Kings Hwy has is Sheepshead Bay, which wasn't part of the Brighton rehab project over these past few years. It's all about priorities.

 

As for the mechanical breakdowns argument, everything breaks down at some point. That's why there's the elevator outages page on the (MTA)'s website, so disabled riders can plan ahead.

[TwoTimer]

Yeah, when that thing is going up and down constantly, things will brake. Even apartment buildings' elevators get a break during the overnight hours when everyone's asleep and midday hours when everyone's at work.

[TwoTimer]

Yeah, when that thing is going up and down constantly, things will brake. Even apartment buildings' elevators get a break during the overnight hours when everyone's asleep and midday hours when everyone's at work.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What's a "shocker"? The fact that I don't hold the subway system to impossible to meet standards or that while there are serious concerns plaguing the system, I don't feel the need to complain at every opportunity like you do?

 

Yeah, you think the walks on water, so why would you ever complain about anything they do? Give me a break.

 

I comprehend it perfectly. You seem to always forget that the subway system is interconnected and you just can't shut down a few stations on a certain line unless the track layout allows it. You can get away with it on lines like the West End and Brighton (limited locations only). Riders would still be livid at the prospect of having to use shuttle buses during rush hour though. However, most of the system doesn't allow for such service patterns. Take the White Plains Road line in the Bronx. You want to shut down a portion of the line for renovations there, you'd have to shut down the entire line between E 180 St and 149 St-Grand Concourse. Same thing for the Sea Beach line. The entire line between 59 St/4 Av and Coney Island would be out of service.

 

I didn't forget at all. It would not be easy at all, but the current situation is not working IMO. We need more innovation at the instead of the same old same old.

 

 

That's just one example, another shuttle line. What would you propose for lines like the Manhattan trunks, Queens Blvd or the Coney Island lines for example? I bet if tried something like that, your idea would be shot down immediately. Just face facts, while the overnight shuttles don't receive that many riders, it doesn't mean the rest of the system doesn't as well. Shutting down parts of the subway will only inconvenience the significant amount of riders, but will only cost the more money in shuttle bus operations. And how much do you want to bet they won't get much accomplished since they'd only have a few hours to actually do something.

 

I think actually what's needed first is much more technological improvements by way of signal improvements and such and more infrastructure projects. Getting that done would allow for more of these sorts of things to be done because it would allow for folks to use alternate trains with less of a convenience. These sorts of things are already done in other countries. Yes they have smaller systems and newer infrastructure, but they also invest heavily in their infrastructure, something that we don't do enough of here.

 

 

Or they can meet their ADA requirement as to not face any legal action from the federal government for lack of compliance. That would probably be best for everyone involved because, let's face it, any money the agency loses from the feds will only come from us through fare hikes and service cuts.

 

Or they could be a good neighbor for once and work with the community to come up with a solution that will make both sides happy. The can and does make mistakes. They are NOT perfect and I would rather then work with the community now rather than proceed with this and have regrets later.

 

Kings Hwy is the busiest station on Brighton. It only makes sense that this particular station gets ADA accessibility first. While I'd love for every station on every line to be accessible, it's not financially feasible. Installing elevators and building ramps into stations originally not designed for them is ******* expensive. The agency has to choose where to put install them at stations that will be most beneficial, i.e., important transfer points and/or being busy stations. Kings Hwy has both, whereas stations like Cortelyou and Beverley don't have either. The only Brighton station that comes close to the amount of riders and connections Kings Hwy has is Sheepshead Bay, which wasn't part of the Brighton rehab project over these past few years. It's all about priorities.

 

As for the mechanical breakdowns argument, everything breaks down at some point. That's why there's the elevator outages page on the (MTA)'s website, so disabled riders can plan ahead.

 

Nice way to avoid the question. I asked how many other stations besides Kings Hwy in Brooklyn in the immediate stops before and after Kings Hwy would be ADA accessible along the Brighton Line? I'm not debating that it's a priority, but to have one ADA accessible station when several of the other stations before and after Kings Hwy were redone without any ADA changes is just ridiculous. What does the disabled person do if the Kings Hwy station can't be used? They are basically stuck. Sure they're priorities, but they should've made at least one or two more stations in that area ADA accessible.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What's a "shocker"? The fact that I don't hold the subway system to impossible to meet standards or that while there are serious concerns plaguing the system, I don't feel the need to complain at every opportunity like you do?

 

Yeah, you think the walks on water, so why would you ever complain about anything they do? Give me a break.

 

I comprehend it perfectly. You seem to always forget that the subway system is interconnected and you just can't shut down a few stations on a certain line unless the track layout allows it. You can get away with it on lines like the West End and Brighton (limited locations only). Riders would still be livid at the prospect of having to use shuttle buses during rush hour though. However, most of the system doesn't allow for such service patterns. Take the White Plains Road line in the Bronx. You want to shut down a portion of the line for renovations there, you'd have to shut down the entire line between E 180 St and 149 St-Grand Concourse. Same thing for the Sea Beach line. The entire line between 59 St/4 Av and Coney Island would be out of service.

 

I didn't forget at all. It would not be easy at all, but the current situation is not working IMO. We need more innovation at the instead of the same old same old.

 

 

That's just one example, another shuttle line. What would you propose for lines like the Manhattan trunks, Queens Blvd or the Coney Island lines for example? I bet if tried something like that, your idea would be shot down immediately. Just face facts, while the overnight shuttles don't receive that many riders, it doesn't mean the rest of the system doesn't as well. Shutting down parts of the subway will only inconvenience the significant amount of riders, but will only cost the more money in shuttle bus operations. And how much do you want to bet they won't get much accomplished since they'd only have a few hours to actually do something.

 

I think actually what's needed first is much more technological improvements by way of signal improvements and such and more infrastructure projects. Getting that done would allow for more of these sorts of things to be done because it would allow for folks to use alternate trains with less of a convenience. These sorts of things are already done in other countries. Yes they have smaller systems and newer infrastructure, but they also invest heavily in their infrastructure, something that we don't do enough of here.

 

 

Or they can meet their ADA requirement as to not face any legal action from the federal government for lack of compliance. That would probably be best for everyone involved because, let's face it, any money the agency loses from the feds will only come from us through fare hikes and service cuts.

 

Or they could be a good neighbor for once and work with the community to come up with a solution that will make both sides happy. The can and does make mistakes. They are NOT perfect and I would rather then work with the community now rather than proceed with this and have regrets later.

 

Kings Hwy is the busiest station on Brighton. It only makes sense that this particular station gets ADA accessibility first. While I'd love for every station on every line to be accessible, it's not financially feasible. Installing elevators and building ramps into stations originally not designed for them is ******* expensive. The agency has to choose where to put install them at stations that will be most beneficial, i.e., important transfer points and/or being busy stations. Kings Hwy has both, whereas stations like Cortelyou and Beverley don't have either. The only Brighton station that comes close to the amount of riders and connections Kings Hwy has is Sheepshead Bay, which wasn't part of the Brighton rehab project over these past few years. It's all about priorities.

 

As for the mechanical breakdowns argument, everything breaks down at some point. That's why there's the elevator outages page on the (MTA)'s website, so disabled riders can plan ahead.

 

Nice way to avoid the question. I asked how many other stations besides Kings Hwy in Brooklyn in the immediate stops before and after Kings Hwy would be ADA accessible along the Brighton Line? I'm not debating that it's a priority, but to have one ADA accessible station when several of the other stations before and after Kings Hwy were redone without any ADA changes is just ridiculous. What does the disabled person do if the Kings Hwy station can't be used? They are basically stuck. Sure they're priorities, but they should've made at least one or two more stations in that area ADA accessible.

[SubwayGuy]

Ah yes there you go again as the "defender of the rich"

 

Oh I read very clearly... You just need to stop flip-flopping that's all and trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

 

The picture I painted very much exists. You even agreed with it when you posted the following:

 

Sure, fewer of them live inside UES subway stations, but their presence is certainly growing.

 

Like I said.

 

On 5th Avenue we didn't have all of these bums and now there's at least 3 or 4 of them that appear regularly and hang around and such, and Grand Central Station in the Dining Concourse... Ugh they're everywhere. I don't eat down there anymore. I just get food from the concourse downstairs if I don't eat at La Fonda del Sol and bring it back to the office :eek:

 

Again, there is no law against being homeless. I know they might offend your wannabe rich sympathies, but they have a right to use public space provided they are using it in a way allowed by the relevant laws and rules of conduct.

 

The homeless population is growing across the city and there is nothing to suggest that they won't grow on the Upper East Side at that station depending on how the new entrance is construscted. If there is shelter there and it is warm enough, believe me they will come.

 

So by your logic, even though there's a perfectly warm, perfectly sheltered subway station at 68th Street, your claim that the reason more homeless people are not living there currently is the lack of an entrance on 69th Street?

 

That station there at Park Ave South & 23rd on the line with that entrance there that goes past a building draws quite a few homeless folks because it keeps them sheltered from the elements better than most places, so they have a legitimate gripe.

 

23rd Street as a whole gets a few homeless people because the enforcement is lacking. One guy sleeps there just about every night on the same bench in the middle of the station platform and no one says anything about it. The stations at 77th and 86th Streets, that would never fly. Same goes for Spring, and why you rarely see homeless there either.

 

The city cannot have paid eyes and ears everywhere, hence "see something say something" so if people look the other way, like at 23rd Street, the homeless population in those locations will grow.

 

Of course you would say that. Anything to try to make it seem like it's only the rich that complain and only the rich that have a voice.

 

I don't make it seem like anything. Everyone complains, but only the rich get a public voice for their "concerns". It's a double standard. But yet it's only "class warfare" when everyone else gets pissed off about it, in your book. I guess that's in line with your theory that the rich deserve everything they can get for themselves at anyone else's expense (since that's not class warfare in your book) but god forbid the 99% criticize the rich (since that is class warfare in your book, which is "highly unacceptable")

 

No, I was correct the first time, so no need to try again. I know the area well. I lived in Sheepshead Bay for a good 17 years before moving to Midwood.

 

And how did you obtain this information? What scientific study did you do that proved "no one spoke English", as you claim? Or was it possible that these people spoke English, but among one another, spoke in their native eastern European tongues?

 

Amazing how a Google search for (without quotes) the phrase "upper east side residents complain subway" immediately yields a plethora of relevant hits, while the phrase "brighton residents complain subway" only immediately yields 1 relevant hit, with the caveat that it is from a neighborhood blog as opposed to an established print media source.

 

Oh please... The Upper East Side didn't just suddenly become affluent over night. The place has always been known for old money for a reason.

 

Parts of it have been. And those are the parts that complain the most frequently and loudest. The whole area of YORKVILLE was once a German immigrant neighborhood. As recently as the 1990s, it housed many middle class families. Many recent college graduates like myself also live in the neighborhood. Many, unlike myself, are new to the neighborhood. Many of them are NOT in the 1%, work for a living, and would benefit immensely from improvement to the 68th Street station in the manner described. The snobs in the article do NOT speak for the majority of people in this neighborhood - I know because I live here.

 

Hell, read what this guy said again:

 

In support of the MTA’s plans, CB 8 member A. Scott Falk — who said it has taken him up to five minutes to exit that subway when it’s crowded — told the residents at the meeting, “New York City is not a gated community. The whole idea of putting an entrance on 69th Street is going to open you up to marauding down the street seems a bit reactionary.”

 

Pretty much.

 

Yes, it's always pointless when those with money complain because since they have money they should just be satisfied and accept things as is. That's your attitude and you've been stating it repeatedly in numerous posts indirectly.

 

My attitude is that those with money should not have more weight given to their arguments than those without. There is a silent majority in that area that would very much support improved station access. There are also Hunter College students who would very much support improved station access. But by your logic, we shouldn't consider the college students at all since they don't "live there" I mean it's not like the city or the MTA has ever done that before.

 

Money does NOT solve all problems

 

That doesn't seem to stop those with money from trying to use it to solve all of their problems.

 

and I don't know when you folks will understand that and folks that have more of it should not feel less empowered or emboldened to act on their concerns when problems arise because they have more wealth than others. That's a completely asinine statement.

 

An asinine statement is saying that because 400 people with $1 want something, and 2 people with $2000 want something, that the 2 people should get what they want. Which is pretty much what you're saying if you support these idiots.

 

Yes, most, but still the Upper East as a whole has suffered from this mess.

 

Generalizing, but I'm pointing out that since the pain and suffering has been felt most by the least affluent businesses, the complaining that they did sure didn't seem to matter a whole lot. So why should the whining of the rich, who, by the way are not going to go out of business because of a 69th Street entrance, suddenly get such weight?

 

Don't be ridiculous. I always like to stand up for the minority and those under attack because there are two sides to every story and it's preposterous to paint everyone with money as being elitist, restless snobs.

 

The rich sure are a minority. Just like every other "minority" in America maybe we should give them a parade and whatever the hell they want, using your logic.

 

It is most certainly relevant because it shows very clearly what people will do to take a shot at those with more wealth.

 

So you view this as a football game. I view it as debating the issues on their merits. These people do not have a legitimate gripe to stand on.

 

All before folks could give a rats' @ss about the disabled as they're a "minority" in this city, but now because more affluent folks are complaining a subway entrance that involves ADA accessibility, suddenly they're trying to demonize the wealthy folks and trying to act as if they care oh so much about the disabled.

 

You keep bringing up other people in other threads that I cannot speak for in your arguments with ME!

 

Hmmm.... And it's just by chance that the "anyone" is always those with more wealth right??

 

You're saying that, I never did....

 

I know you weren't but others were and I'm calling them out on their BS and hypocrisy.

 

OK, but it's still irrelevant to what we are talking about.

 

Why can't they think outside of the box or better yet make the current space work better? I don't think they've explored all options, and you're very eager to give them a easy pass... Just what they like... A free pass...

 

The current space cannot work better without an additional entrance. The mezzanine level is very square in nature, and while it has turnstiles in a roundabout configuration, there is nowhere else to put more staircases to the platform. Additionally exit to the street can be confusing as well as the flow of people is not very logical either. Short of completely closing the station for a month to do a complete rebuild of the station entrance layout (a total no-no; the same people protesting the new entrance will be showing up to protest that if proposed; only this time they'll actually have a legitimate beef), there is nothing that can be done to improve the current configuration. However, adding a new entrance on 69th Street allows for alternate access so that should the MTA decide to close the 68th Street entrance to modernize it, it can be done without closing the station to ridership.

 

Oh please.... Are you aware of how many women have been attacked while walking from the subway? The subways are most certainly a good indication as to how crime is overall and it is interesting to see how a spike in crime overall has occurred at the same time that a spike in subway crime has occurred.

 

This has nothing to do with a new entrance.

 

Crime has gone up in the city.

The subway is part of the city.

Therefore, logically, crime has gone up in the subway.

 

I'm sure crime has gone up in convenience stores too. Are you saying we should stop opening convenience stores citywide because they are a gateway to crime???

 

I knew you would ask that... How about personal experience. I've been riding the subway for years now and like I said, depending on how the entrance is to this station it could very well bring more bums.

 

More conjecture. Do you have any statistics you can cite to prove this? "I've been riding the subway for years" proves nothing about anything.

 

That's funny because just about everyone here who has criticized them has c commented REPEATEDLY on their money and social standing so that is certainly a big fat wet sloppy lie.

 

Again, you're talking about "them". If you got something to "them" say it to them don't say it to me...

[SubwayGuy]

Ah yes there you go again as the "defender of the rich"

 

Oh I read very clearly... You just need to stop flip-flopping that's all and trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

 

The picture I painted very much exists. You even agreed with it when you posted the following:

 

Sure, fewer of them live inside UES subway stations, but their presence is certainly growing.

 

Like I said.

 

On 5th Avenue we didn't have all of these bums and now there's at least 3 or 4 of them that appear regularly and hang around and such, and Grand Central Station in the Dining Concourse... Ugh they're everywhere. I don't eat down there anymore. I just get food from the concourse downstairs if I don't eat at La Fonda del Sol and bring it back to the office :eek:

 

Again, there is no law against being homeless. I know they might offend your wannabe rich sympathies, but they have a right to use public space provided they are using it in a way allowed by the relevant laws and rules of conduct.

 

The homeless population is growing across the city and there is nothing to suggest that they won't grow on the Upper East Side at that station depending on how the new entrance is construscted. If there is shelter there and it is warm enough, believe me they will come.

 

So by your logic, even though there's a perfectly warm, perfectly sheltered subway station at 68th Street, your claim that the reason more homeless people are not living there currently is the lack of an entrance on 69th Street?

 

That station there at Park Ave South & 23rd on the line with that entrance there that goes past a building draws quite a few homeless folks because it keeps them sheltered from the elements better than most places, so they have a legitimate gripe.

 

23rd Street as a whole gets a few homeless people because the enforcement is lacking. One guy sleeps there just about every night on the same bench in the middle of the station platform and no one says anything about it. The stations at 77th and 86th Streets, that would never fly. Same goes for Spring, and why you rarely see homeless there either.

 

The city cannot have paid eyes and ears everywhere, hence "see something say something" so if people look the other way, like at 23rd Street, the homeless population in those locations will grow.

 

Of course you would say that. Anything to try to make it seem like it's only the rich that complain and only the rich that have a voice.

 

I don't make it seem like anything. Everyone complains, but only the rich get a public voice for their "concerns". It's a double standard. But yet it's only "class warfare" when everyone else gets pissed off about it, in your book. I guess that's in line with your theory that the rich deserve everything they can get for themselves at anyone else's expense (since that's not class warfare in your book) but god forbid the 99% criticize the rich (since that is class warfare in your book, which is "highly unacceptable")

 

No, I was correct the first time, so no need to try again. I know the area well. I lived in Sheepshead Bay for a good 17 years before moving to Midwood.

 

And how did you obtain this information? What scientific study did you do that proved "no one spoke English", as you claim? Or was it possible that these people spoke English, but among one another, spoke in their native eastern European tongues?

 

Amazing how a Google search for (without quotes) the phrase "upper east side residents complain subway" immediately yields a plethora of relevant hits, while the phrase "brighton residents complain subway" only immediately yields 1 relevant hit, with the caveat that it is from a neighborhood blog as opposed to an established print media source.

 

Oh please... The Upper East Side didn't just suddenly become affluent over night. The place has always been known for old money for a reason.

 

Parts of it have been. And those are the parts that complain the most frequently and loudest. The whole area of YORKVILLE was once a German immigrant neighborhood. As recently as the 1990s, it housed many middle class families. Many recent college graduates like myself also live in the neighborhood. Many, unlike myself, are new to the neighborhood. Many of them are NOT in the 1%, work for a living, and would benefit immensely from improvement to the 68th Street station in the manner described. The snobs in the article do NOT speak for the majority of people in this neighborhood - I know because I live here.

 

Hell, read what this guy said again:

 

In support of the MTA’s plans, CB 8 member A. Scott Falk — who said it has taken him up to five minutes to exit that subway when it’s crowded — told the residents at the meeting, “New York City is not a gated community. The whole idea of putting an entrance on 69th Street is going to open you up to marauding down the street seems a bit reactionary.”

 

Pretty much.

 

Yes, it's always pointless when those with money complain because since they have money they should just be satisfied and accept things as is. That's your attitude and you've been stating it repeatedly in numerous posts indirectly.

 

My attitude is that those with money should not have more weight given to their arguments than those without. There is a silent majority in that area that would very much support improved station access. There are also Hunter College students who would very much support improved station access. But by your logic, we shouldn't consider the college students at all since they don't "live there" I mean it's not like the city or the MTA has ever done that before.

 

Money does NOT solve all problems

 

That doesn't seem to stop those with money from trying to use it to solve all of their problems.

 

and I don't know when you folks will understand that and folks that have more of it should not feel less empowered or emboldened to act on their concerns when problems arise because they have more wealth than others. That's a completely asinine statement.

 

An asinine statement is saying that because 400 people with $1 want something, and 2 people with $2000 want something, that the 2 people should get what they want. Which is pretty much what you're saying if you support these idiots.

 

Yes, most, but still the Upper East as a whole has suffered from this mess.

 

Generalizing, but I'm pointing out that since the pain and suffering has been felt most by the least affluent businesses, the complaining that they did sure didn't seem to matter a whole lot. So why should the whining of the rich, who, by the way are not going to go out of business because of a 69th Street entrance, suddenly get such weight?

 

Don't be ridiculous. I always like to stand up for the minority and those under attack because there are two sides to every story and it's preposterous to paint everyone with money as being elitist, restless snobs.

 

The rich sure are a minority. Just like every other "minority" in America maybe we should give them a parade and whatever the hell they want, using your logic.

 

It is most certainly relevant because it shows very clearly what people will do to take a shot at those with more wealth.

 

So you view this as a football game. I view it as debating the issues on their merits. These people do not have a legitimate gripe to stand on.

 

All before folks could give a rats' @ss about the disabled as they're a "minority" in this city, but now because more affluent folks are complaining a subway entrance that involves ADA accessibility, suddenly they're trying to demonize the wealthy folks and trying to act as if they care oh so much about the disabled.

 

You keep bringing up other people in other threads that I cannot speak for in your arguments with ME!

 

Hmmm.... And it's just by chance that the "anyone" is always those with more wealth right??

 

You're saying that, I never did....

 

I know you weren't but others were and I'm calling them out on their BS and hypocrisy.

 

OK, but it's still irrelevant to what we are talking about.

 

Why can't they think outside of the box or better yet make the current space work better? I don't think they've explored all options, and you're very eager to give them a easy pass... Just what they like... A free pass...

 

The current space cannot work better without an additional entrance. The mezzanine level is very square in nature, and while it has turnstiles in a roundabout configuration, there is nowhere else to put more staircases to the platform. Additionally exit to the street can be confusing as well as the flow of people is not very logical either. Short of completely closing the station for a month to do a complete rebuild of the station entrance layout (a total no-no; the same people protesting the new entrance will be showing up to protest that if proposed; only this time they'll actually have a legitimate beef), there is nothing that can be done to improve the current configuration. However, adding a new entrance on 69th Street allows for alternate access so that should the MTA decide to close the 68th Street entrance to modernize it, it can be done without closing the station to ridership.

 

Oh please.... Are you aware of how many women have been attacked while walking from the subway? The subways are most certainly a good indication as to how crime is overall and it is interesting to see how a spike in crime overall has occurred at the same time that a spike in subway crime has occurred.

 

This has nothing to do with a new entrance.

 

Crime has gone up in the city.

The subway is part of the city.

Therefore, logically, crime has gone up in the subway.

 

I'm sure crime has gone up in convenience stores too. Are you saying we should stop opening convenience stores citywide because they are a gateway to crime???

 

I knew you would ask that... How about personal experience. I've been riding the subway for years now and like I said, depending on how the entrance is to this station it could very well bring more bums.

 

More conjecture. Do you have any statistics you can cite to prove this? "I've been riding the subway for years" proves nothing about anything.

 

That's funny because just about everyone here who has criticized them has c commented REPEATEDLY on their money and social standing so that is certainly a big fat wet sloppy lie.

 

Again, you're talking about "them". If you got something to "them" say it to them don't say it to me...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ah yes there you go again as the "defender of the rich"

 

You can call it defending the rich. I call it defending those who are being wrongfully attacked for expressing their concerns. I haven't heard you complain about anyone else that complains. It's only the rich that complain or better yet, you only want to attack the rich for complaining and no one else.

 

 

The picture I painted very much exists. You even agreed with it when you posted the following:

 

 

 

Like I said.

 

I agreed, but let's not exaggerate. These homeless folks will certainly bring more problems to the area.

 

 

Again, there is no law against being homeless. I know they might offend your wannabe rich sympathies, but they have a right to use public space provided they are using it in a way allowed by the relevant laws and rules of conduct.

 

No, there isn't a law against it, but it is a well known fact that they tend to dirty areas that they use and such. I mean they're homeless, so many of them don't have anywhere to shower and such. There's a homeless black man here on 5th Avenue that talks to himself and hangs out near my office building and he has been wearing the same thing for God knows how long. Really terrible. They should really get these folks help and get them showered up and such. Despite your claims of elitism, I have helped plenty of homeless folks in my day giving them food and such. I am most certainly not an elitist, but I just find it ridiculous to try to paint every person who has money as being some sort of tyrant or something like you do. Criminals exist in all economic classes as we have seen.

 

So by your logic, even though there's a perfectly warm, perfectly sheltered subway station at 68th Street, your claim that the reason more homeless people are not living there currently is the lack of an entrance on 69th Street?

 

I have gotten off at the 68th street plenty of times and I wouldn't call that a perfectly warm, perfectly sheltered place. The 23rd street entrance is much more suitable for someone who is homeless because it offers refuge better from the harsh elements outside.

 

23rd Street as a whole gets a few homeless people because the enforcement is lacking. One guy sleeps there just about every night on the same bench in the middle of the station platform and no one says anything about it. The stations at 77th and 86th Streets, that would never fly. Same goes for Spring, and why you rarely see homeless there either.

 

The city cannot have paid eyes and ears everywhere, hence "see something say something" so if people look the other way, like at 23rd Street, the homeless population in those locations will grow.

 

Yeah, but 23rd street is not exactly a dump. That's also a pricey area to live in esp. seeing that the station is right by Park Avenue South.

 

 

I don't make it seem like anything. Everyone complains, but only the rich get a public voice for their "concerns". It's a double standard. But yet it's only "class warfare" when everyone else gets pissed off about it, in your book. I guess that's in line with your theory that the rich deserve everything they can get for themselves at anyone else's expense (since that's not class warfare in your book) but god forbid the 99% criticize the rich (since that is class warfare in your book, which is "highly unacceptable")

 

No, it's class warfare because you look for every opportunity to take a shot at these people and demonize ALL of them, as if ALL of them are the same and that's my problem with it.

 

And how did you obtain this information? What scientific study did you do that proved "no one spoke English", as you claim? Or was it possible that these people spoke English, but among one another, spoke in their native eastern European tongues?

 

What scientific studies have you done to say otherwise? Listen guy, I've lived in Sheepshead Bay for almost 20 years and I still go back to the neighborhood every month. The barbershop that I frequent is mainly Russian and my barber is Moroccan and yeah, some of them do speak English, but many of them don't. I've been on the train and there were announcements and many of the folks on the train didn't even know what was going on because they didn't speak English and I knew they didn't because they went around the train looking for someone who spoke Russian. It is no secret that they feel more comfortable speaking Russian, which is natural and when you're in your community where most folks speak your language, it is also natural that many folks won't speak English or will speak it rather poorly. No different here.

 

Amazing how a Google search for (without quotes) the phrase "upper east side residents complain subway" immediately yields a plethora of relevant hits, while the phrase "brighton residents complain subway" only immediately yields 1 relevant hit, with the caveat that it is from a neighborhood blog as opposed to an established print media source.

 

Well that makes sense. They've got the Second Avenue subway that's decimated their neighborhood and they don't have a right to complain? Give me a break.

 

 

Parts of it have been. And those are the parts that complain the most frequently and loudest. The whole area of YORKVILLE was once a German immigrant neighborhood. As recently as the 1990s, it housed many middle class families. Many recent college graduates like myself also live in the neighborhood. Many, unlike myself, are new to the neighborhood. Many of them are NOT in the 1%, work for a living, and would benefit immensely from improvement to the 68th Street station in the manner described. The snobs in the article do NOT speak for the majority of people in this neighborhood - I know because I live here.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the German population that used to exist in Yorkville. There are just handful of German stores left up there.

 

Hell, read what this guy said again...

 

Yeah he doesn't think folks have the right to voice their opinion if they're the minority and have money. You two share similar thinking I see...

 

My attitude is that those with money should not have more weight given to their arguments than those without. There is a silent majority in that area that would very much support improved station access. There are also Hunter College students who would very much support improved station access. But by your logic, we shouldn't consider the college students at all since they don't "live there" I mean it's not like the city or the MTA has ever done that before.

 

Oh please... If the silent majority felt so strongly about it then they should be out letting the voices be heard. It's just that those with more money refuse to be walked over and that's the difference.

 

 

That doesn't seem to stop those with money from trying to use it to solve all of their problems.

 

An asinine statement is saying that because 400 people with $1 want something, and 2 people with $2000 want something, that the 2 people should get what they want. Which is pretty much what you're saying if you support these idiots.

 

That's completely outlandish. It's only natural that those who live there would complain and if others aren't concerned, well of course they aren't because what would they care about the entrance? It isn't their living environment and such being affected and I doubt that it's yours either so it's very easy for you and others to say that they shouldn't complain. :tdown:

 

 

Generalizing, but I'm pointing out that since the pain and suffering has been felt most by the least affluent businesses, the complaining that they did sure didn't seem to matter a whole lot. So why should the whining of the rich, who, by the way are not going to go out of business because of a 69th Street entrance, suddenly get such weight?

 

Here we go again... Always have to distinguish between the haves and the have nots. The whole neighborhood has suffered. Why can't you just admit that and leave class out of it for once? It's not like there's an affluent part of the Upper East Side and a dumpy part of it, not unless you're trying to include areas like those housing projects, which I would consider to be parts of Harlem.

 

 

The rich sure are a minority. Just like every other "minority" in America maybe we should give them a parade and whatever the hell they want, using your logic.

 

Or maybe we should just point the blame at where it really belongs and stop trying to put all of them into one group and demonize all of them as you repeatedly do.

 

 

So you view this as a football game. I view it as debating the issues on their merits. These people do not have a legitimate gripe to stand on.

 

No, I view it as a community who is standing up for their concerns and I don't feel the need to note that they're affluent like you do constantly in order to justify whether or not they have a right to complain.

 

 

 

You're saying that, I never did....

 

Nice way to deflect things...

 

 

OK, but it's still irrelevant to what we are talking about.

 

Not really, but you can believe that if you want. I've made my point clear in other responses above.

 

The current space cannot work better without an additional entrance. The mezzanine level is very square in nature, and while it has turnstiles in a roundabout configuration, there is nowhere else to put more staircases to the platform. Additionally exit to the street can be confusing as well as the flow of people is not very logical either. Short of completely closing the station for a month to do a complete rebuild of the station entrance layout (a total no-no; the same people protesting the new entrance will be showing up to protest that if proposed; only this time they'll actually have a legitimate beef), there is nothing that can be done to improve the current configuration. However, adding a new entrance on 69th Street allows for alternate access so that should the MTA decide to close the 68th Street entrance to modernize it, it can be done without closing the station to ridership.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with a new entrance.

 

Crime has gone up in the city.

The subway is part of the city.

Therefore, logically, crime has gone up in the subway.

 

I'm sure crime has gone up in convenience stores too. Are you saying we should stop opening convenience stores citywide because they are a gateway to crime???

 

We're not talking about convenience stores. We're talking about an entrance that a community has legitimate concerns about and they don't want this entrance rammed down their throats. I still say that the should look to work with them to reach a reasonable solution.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ah yes there you go again as the "defender of the rich"

 

You can call it defending the rich. I call it defending those who are being wrongfully attacked for expressing their concerns. I haven't heard you complain about anyone else that complains. It's only the rich that complain or better yet, you only want to attack the rich for complaining and no one else.

 

 

The picture I painted very much exists. You even agreed with it when you posted the following:

 

 

 

Like I said.

 

I agreed, but let's not exaggerate. These homeless folks will certainly bring more problems to the area.

 

 

Again, there is no law against being homeless. I know they might offend your wannabe rich sympathies, but they have a right to use public space provided they are using it in a way allowed by the relevant laws and rules of conduct.

 

No, there isn't a law against it, but it is a well known fact that they tend to dirty areas that they use and such. I mean they're homeless, so many of them don't have anywhere to shower and such. There's a homeless black man here on 5th Avenue that talks to himself and hangs out near my office building and he has been wearing the same thing for God knows how long. Really terrible. They should really get these folks help and get them showered up and such. Despite your claims of elitism, I have helped plenty of homeless folks in my day giving them food and such. I am most certainly not an elitist, but I just find it ridiculous to try to paint every person who has money as being some sort of tyrant or something like you do. Criminals exist in all economic classes as we have seen.

 

So by your logic, even though there's a perfectly warm, perfectly sheltered subway station at 68th Street, your claim that the reason more homeless people are not living there currently is the lack of an entrance on 69th Street?

 

I have gotten off at the 68th street plenty of times and I wouldn't call that a perfectly warm, perfectly sheltered place. The 23rd street entrance is much more suitable for someone who is homeless because it offers refuge better from the harsh elements outside.

 

23rd Street as a whole gets a few homeless people because the enforcement is lacking. One guy sleeps there just about every night on the same bench in the middle of the station platform and no one says anything about it. The stations at 77th and 86th Streets, that would never fly. Same goes for Spring, and why you rarely see homeless there either.

 

The city cannot have paid eyes and ears everywhere, hence "see something say something" so if people look the other way, like at 23rd Street, the homeless population in those locations will grow.

 

Yeah, but 23rd street is not exactly a dump. That's also a pricey area to live in esp. seeing that the station is right by Park Avenue South.

 

 

I don't make it seem like anything. Everyone complains, but only the rich get a public voice for their "concerns". It's a double standard. But yet it's only "class warfare" when everyone else gets pissed off about it, in your book. I guess that's in line with your theory that the rich deserve everything they can get for themselves at anyone else's expense (since that's not class warfare in your book) but god forbid the 99% criticize the rich (since that is class warfare in your book, which is "highly unacceptable")

 

No, it's class warfare because you look for every opportunity to take a shot at these people and demonize ALL of them, as if ALL of them are the same and that's my problem with it.

 

And how did you obtain this information? What scientific study did you do that proved "no one spoke English", as you claim? Or was it possible that these people spoke English, but among one another, spoke in their native eastern European tongues?

 

What scientific studies have you done to say otherwise? Listen guy, I've lived in Sheepshead Bay for almost 20 years and I still go back to the neighborhood every month. The barbershop that I frequent is mainly Russian and my barber is Moroccan and yeah, some of them do speak English, but many of them don't. I've been on the train and there were announcements and many of the folks on the train didn't even know what was going on because they didn't speak English and I knew they didn't because they went around the train looking for someone who spoke Russian. It is no secret that they feel more comfortable speaking Russian, which is natural and when you're in your community where most folks speak your language, it is also natural that many folks won't speak English or will speak it rather poorly. No different here.

 

Amazing how a Google search for (without quotes) the phrase "upper east side residents complain subway" immediately yields a plethora of relevant hits, while the phrase "brighton residents complain subway" only immediately yields 1 relevant hit, with the caveat that it is from a neighborhood blog as opposed to an established print media source.

 

Well that makes sense. They've got the Second Avenue subway that's decimated their neighborhood and they don't have a right to complain? Give me a break.

 

 

Parts of it have been. And those are the parts that complain the most frequently and loudest. The whole area of YORKVILLE was once a German immigrant neighborhood. As recently as the 1990s, it housed many middle class families. Many recent college graduates like myself also live in the neighborhood. Many, unlike myself, are new to the neighborhood. Many of them are NOT in the 1%, work for a living, and would benefit immensely from improvement to the 68th Street station in the manner described. The snobs in the article do NOT speak for the majority of people in this neighborhood - I know because I live here.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the German population that used to exist in Yorkville. There are just handful of German stores left up there.

 

Hell, read what this guy said again...

 

Yeah he doesn't think folks have the right to voice their opinion if they're the minority and have money. You two share similar thinking I see...

 

My attitude is that those with money should not have more weight given to their arguments than those without. There is a silent majority in that area that would very much support improved station access. There are also Hunter College students who would very much support improved station access. But by your logic, we shouldn't consider the college students at all since they don't "live there" I mean it's not like the city or the MTA has ever done that before.

 

Oh please... If the silent majority felt so strongly about it then they should be out letting the voices be heard. It's just that those with more money refuse to be walked over and that's the difference.

 

 

That doesn't seem to stop those with money from trying to use it to solve all of their problems.

 

An asinine statement is saying that because 400 people with $1 want something, and 2 people with $2000 want something, that the 2 people should get what they want. Which is pretty much what you're saying if you support these idiots.

 

That's completely outlandish. It's only natural that those who live there would complain and if others aren't concerned, well of course they aren't because what would they care about the entrance? It isn't their living environment and such being affected and I doubt that it's yours either so it's very easy for you and others to say that they shouldn't complain. :tdown:

 

 

Generalizing, but I'm pointing out that since the pain and suffering has been felt most by the least affluent businesses, the complaining that they did sure didn't seem to matter a whole lot. So why should the whining of the rich, who, by the way are not going to go out of business because of a 69th Street entrance, suddenly get such weight?

 

Here we go again... Always have to distinguish between the haves and the have nots. The whole neighborhood has suffered. Why can't you just admit that and leave class out of it for once? It's not like there's an affluent part of the Upper East Side and a dumpy part of it, not unless you're trying to include areas like those housing projects, which I would consider to be parts of Harlem.

 

 

The rich sure are a minority. Just like every other "minority" in America maybe we should give them a parade and whatever the hell they want, using your logic.

 

Or maybe we should just point the blame at where it really belongs and stop trying to put all of them into one group and demonize all of them as you repeatedly do.

 

 

So you view this as a football game. I view it as debating the issues on their merits. These people do not have a legitimate gripe to stand on.

 

No, I view it as a community who is standing up for their concerns and I don't feel the need to note that they're affluent like you do constantly in order to justify whether or not they have a right to complain.

 

 

 

You're saying that, I never did....

 

Nice way to deflect things...

 

 

OK, but it's still irrelevant to what we are talking about.

 

Not really, but you can believe that if you want. I've made my point clear in other responses above.

 

The current space cannot work better without an additional entrance. The mezzanine level is very square in nature, and while it has turnstiles in a roundabout configuration, there is nowhere else to put more staircases to the platform. Additionally exit to the street can be confusing as well as the flow of people is not very logical either. Short of completely closing the station for a month to do a complete rebuild of the station entrance layout (a total no-no; the same people protesting the new entrance will be showing up to protest that if proposed; only this time they'll actually have a legitimate beef), there is nothing that can be done to improve the current configuration. However, adding a new entrance on 69th Street allows for alternate access so that should the MTA decide to close the 68th Street entrance to modernize it, it can be done without closing the station to ridership.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with a new entrance.

 

Crime has gone up in the city.

The subway is part of the city.

Therefore, logically, crime has gone up in the subway.

 

I'm sure crime has gone up in convenience stores too. Are you saying we should stop opening convenience stores citywide because they are a gateway to crime???

 

We're not talking about convenience stores. We're talking about an entrance that a community has legitimate concerns about and they don't want this entrance rammed down their throats. I still say that the should look to work with them to reach a reasonable solution.

[Guest lance25]

Yeah, you think the walks on water, so why would you ever complain about anything they do? Give me a break.

 

I've already touched on the dirty and/or decrepit conditions on the subway before as well as the scheduling problems before. Complaining about them ad nauseum like you seem to do doesn't fix any of these problems.

 

I didn't forget at all. It would not be easy at all, but the current situation is not working IMO. We need more innovation at the instead of the same old same old.

 

Your "innovation" comes at the expense of people just trying to get to school and work during the damn rush hour. How would you feel if they decided to cut certain express buses on Staten Island due to road work, thus forcing you to ride the local ones? Well, that's almost exactly what you're suggesting for the subway, but with shuttle buses. Those buses can't and won't be the solution for slow construction work.

 

I think actually what's needed first is much more technological improvements by way of signal improvements and such and more infrastructure projects. Getting that done would allow for more of these sorts of things to be done because it would allow for folks to use alternate trains with less of a convenience. These sorts of things are already done in other countries. Yes they have smaller systems and newer infrastructure, but they also invest heavily in their infrastructure, something that we don't do enough of here.

 

They're putting new signals with the CBTC project on Canarsie and Flushing and are planning on continuing on the Culver and Queens Blvd lines. However, projects like that take time and cost money, money the agency really doesn't have. Then there's the push back from residents who complain about how unavoidable line shutdowns affect their ability to get from point A to B.

 

Again, I'd love to have a system like the ones overseas, because contrary to your belief, I do believe there are problems across the board with entire system, not just the subway. However, that involves investments in mass transit on the local, state and federal levels, something that's practically unheard of today. The state has repeatedly cut funding to the , sometimes due to their own fiscal problems, other times not. Those cuts affect what the agency can do in terms of improvements anywhere, whether that's new signals, better overall service or as was the case over the last couple of years, service cuts and fare hikes. The federal government can't do much since the country's in the crapper itself and the city has no control over the .

 

Or they could be a good neighbor for once and work with the community to come up with a solution that will make both sides happy. The can and does make mistakes. They are NOT perfect and I would rather then work with the community now rather than proceed with this and have regrets later.

 

They are being "good neighbors". They didn't just cram this thing down people's throats. They presented the proposal to the community that would be affected for ideas and opinions. If that's not working with the public, then I don't know what is. As for "other solutions", what part of "68 St needs a new exit" do you not get? They can' expand the 68th Street entrance/exit since there's no room. Outside of tunneling down to another block for the exit, 69th Street is the only option.

 

Nice way to avoid the question. I asked how many other stations besides Kings Hwy in Brooklyn in the immediate stops before and after Kings Hwy would be ADA accessible along the Brighton Line? I'm not debating that it's a priority, but to have one ADA accessible station when several of the other stations before and after Kings Hwy were redone without any ADA changes is just ridiculous. What does the disabled person do if the Kings Hwy station can't be used? They are basically stuck. Sure they're priorities, but they should've made at least one or two more stations in that area ADA accessible.

 

What would you rather have, one ADA station between Prospect Park and Stillwell Av, or none at all? And no, there is no third option. As I mentioned previously, ADA upgrades are expensive, sometimes doubling the cost of construction, which, mind you, comes out the (MTA)'s pocket, not the federal government. You want more Brighton stations accessible, be ready to pay more to get around, even if you don't use those station.

[Guest lance25]

Yeah, you think the walks on water, so why would you ever complain about anything they do? Give me a break.

 

I've already touched on the dirty and/or decrepit conditions on the subway before as well as the scheduling problems before. Complaining about them ad nauseum like you seem to do doesn't fix any of these problems.

 

I didn't forget at all. It would not be easy at all, but the current situation is not working IMO. We need more innovation at the instead of the same old same old.

 

Your "innovation" comes at the expense of people just trying to get to school and work during the damn rush hour. How would you feel if they decided to cut certain express buses on Staten Island due to road work, thus forcing you to ride the local ones? Well, that's almost exactly what you're suggesting for the subway, but with shuttle buses. Those buses can't and won't be the solution for slow construction work.

 

I think actually what's needed first is much more technological improvements by way of signal improvements and such and more infrastructure projects. Getting that done would allow for more of these sorts of things to be done because it would allow for folks to use alternate trains with less of a convenience. These sorts of things are already done in other countries. Yes they have smaller systems and newer infrastructure, but they also invest heavily in their infrastructure, something that we don't do enough of here.

 

They're putting new signals with the CBTC project on Canarsie and Flushing and are planning on continuing on the Culver and Queens Blvd lines. However, projects like that take time and cost money, money the agency really doesn't have. Then there's the push back from residents who complain about how unavoidable line shutdowns affect their ability to get from point A to B.

 

Again, I'd love to have a system like the ones overseas, because contrary to your belief, I do believe there are problems across the board with entire system, not just the subway. However, that involves investments in mass transit on the local, state and federal levels, something that's practically unheard of today. The state has repeatedly cut funding to the , sometimes due to their own fiscal problems, other times not. Those cuts affect what the agency can do in terms of improvements anywhere, whether that's new signals, better overall service or as was the case over the last couple of years, service cuts and fare hikes. The federal government can't do much since the country's in the crapper itself and the city has no control over the .

 

Or they could be a good neighbor for once and work with the community to come up with a solution that will make both sides happy. The can and does make mistakes. They are NOT perfect and I would rather then work with the community now rather than proceed with this and have regrets later.

 

They are being "good neighbors". They didn't just cram this thing down people's throats. They presented the proposal to the community that would be affected for ideas and opinions. If that's not working with the public, then I don't know what is. As for "other solutions", what part of "68 St needs a new exit" do you not get? They can' expand the 68th Street entrance/exit since there's no room. Outside of tunneling down to another block for the exit, 69th Street is the only option.

 

Nice way to avoid the question. I asked how many other stations besides Kings Hwy in Brooklyn in the immediate stops before and after Kings Hwy would be ADA accessible along the Brighton Line? I'm not debating that it's a priority, but to have one ADA accessible station when several of the other stations before and after Kings Hwy were redone without any ADA changes is just ridiculous. What does the disabled person do if the Kings Hwy station can't be used? They are basically stuck. Sure they're priorities, but they should've made at least one or two more stations in that area ADA accessible.

 

What would you rather have, one ADA station between Prospect Park and Stillwell Av, or none at all? And no, there is no third option. As I mentioned previously, ADA upgrades are expensive, sometimes doubling the cost of construction, which, mind you, comes out the (MTA)'s pocket, not the federal government. You want more Brighton stations accessible, be ready to pay more to get around, even if you don't use those station.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've already touched on the dirty and/or decrepit conditions on the subway before as well as the scheduling problems before. Complaining about them ad nauseum like you seem to do doesn't fix any of these problems.

 

LOL... Really? I certainly can't recall reading a post where you have....

 

 

Your "innovation" comes at the expense of people just trying to get to school and work during the damn rush hour. How would you feel if they decided to cut certain express buses on Staten Island due to road work, thus forcing you to ride the local ones? Well, that's almost exactly what you're suggesting for the subway, but with shuttle buses. Those buses can't and won't be the solution for slow construction work.

 

And so what you don't think people are being hurt now with these never ending construction projects??

 

 

Again, I'd love to have a system like the ones overseas, because contrary to your belief, I do believe there are problems across the board with entire system, not just the subway. However, that involves investments in mass transit on the local, state and federal levels, something that's practically unheard of today. The state has repeatedly cut funding to the , sometimes due to their own fiscal problems, other times not. Those cuts affect what the agency can do in terms of improvements anywhere, whether that's new signals, better overall service or as was the case over the last couple of years, service cuts and fare hikes. The federal government can't do much since the country's in the crapper itself and the city has no control over the .

 

Yeah it's funny... Go back in time during history and tell me when the has been decently funded. They've always been underfunded for one excuse or another.

 

 

They are being "good neighbors". They didn't just cram this thing down people's throats. They presented the proposal to the community that would be affected for ideas and opinions. If that's not working with the public, then I don't know what is. As for "other solutions", what part of "68 St needs a new exit" do you not get? They can' expand the 68th Street entrance/exit since there's no room. Outside of tunneling down to another block for the exit, 69th Street is the only option.

 

That remains to be seen. Holding a meeting is one thing. The end result is another. Hell they hold plenty of meetings and folks oppose their suggestions and they still do what they want in the end, so don't be so quick to call them "good neighbors".

 

 

What would you rather have, one ADA station between Prospect Park and Stillwell Av, or none at all? And no, there is no third option. As I mentioned previously, ADA upgrades are expensive, sometimes doubling the cost of construction, which, mind you, comes out the (MTA)'s pocket, not the federal government. You want more Brighton stations accessible, be ready to pay more to get around, even if you don't use those station.

 

 

Well as it is now, we'll have just one at Kings Hwy and that'll be it for the entire area until who knows when. Those stations won't see any rehabs for at least a good 15 years or more and that means more than likely no ADA accessible stations for 15 years or longer. I'm sorry but if you're going to re-do all of these stations as they are along the Brighton Line then monies must be found to make more of them ADA accessible. The problem is that they don't know how to reduce costs. Still way too much waste at the .

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've already touched on the dirty and/or decrepit conditions on the subway before as well as the scheduling problems before. Complaining about them ad nauseum like you seem to do doesn't fix any of these problems.

 

LOL... Really? I certainly can't recall reading a post where you have....

 

 

Your "innovation" comes at the expense of people just trying to get to school and work during the damn rush hour. How would you feel if they decided to cut certain express buses on Staten Island due to road work, thus forcing you to ride the local ones? Well, that's almost exactly what you're suggesting for the subway, but with shuttle buses. Those buses can't and won't be the solution for slow construction work.

 

And so what you don't think people are being hurt now with these never ending construction projects??

 

 

Again, I'd love to have a system like the ones overseas, because contrary to your belief, I do believe there are problems across the board with entire system, not just the subway. However, that involves investments in mass transit on the local, state and federal levels, something that's practically unheard of today. The state has repeatedly cut funding to the , sometimes due to their own fiscal problems, other times not. Those cuts affect what the agency can do in terms of improvements anywhere, whether that's new signals, better overall service or as was the case over the last couple of years, service cuts and fare hikes. The federal government can't do much since the country's in the crapper itself and the city has no control over the .

 

Yeah it's funny... Go back in time during history and tell me when the has been decently funded. They've always been underfunded for one excuse or another.

 

 

They are being "good neighbors". They didn't just cram this thing down people's throats. They presented the proposal to the community that would be affected for ideas and opinions. If that's not working with the public, then I don't know what is. As for "other solutions", what part of "68 St needs a new exit" do you not get? They can' expand the 68th Street entrance/exit since there's no room. Outside of tunneling down to another block for the exit, 69th Street is the only option.

 

That remains to be seen. Holding a meeting is one thing. The end result is another. Hell they hold plenty of meetings and folks oppose their suggestions and they still do what they want in the end, so don't be so quick to call them "good neighbors".

 

 

What would you rather have, one ADA station between Prospect Park and Stillwell Av, or none at all? And no, there is no third option. As I mentioned previously, ADA upgrades are expensive, sometimes doubling the cost of construction, which, mind you, comes out the (MTA)'s pocket, not the federal government. You want more Brighton stations accessible, be ready to pay more to get around, even if you don't use those station.

 

 

Well as it is now, we'll have just one at Kings Hwy and that'll be it for the entire area until who knows when. Those stations won't see any rehabs for at least a good 15 years or more and that means more than likely no ADA accessible stations for 15 years or longer. I'm sorry but if you're going to re-do all of these stations as they are along the Brighton Line then monies must be found to make more of them ADA accessible. The problem is that they don't know how to reduce costs. Still way too much waste at the .