More Problems with the B1

[Olegkha]

Sure you can :tup:... first hand knowledge is always appreciated.

 

 

Sans the artic part, your routing is the reverse of what I'd suggest those B1 shuttles (or w/e) do....

when I told via garibaldi 8 in [post #11]:

 

 

 

....pretty much what I was alluding to in that snippet was.... Have those crushloaded B1's (no direct shuttle to the subway) do the normal route from KCC until it hits CI av, make that right & then drop off w/e pax on board all at the subway station (it's a current NB B68 stop).... then after that, head right back to KCC via neptune, west end, and oriental.... and then do a "normal" B1 run from KCC to Bay Ridge.....

 

 

More shuttles may not be a good idea because more buses means more drivers, 60 foot bus takes more people in one shot.

 

And another problem is , you can not touch that North bound B68 bus stop. First of all, it is very hard to make that right from Brighton to CI, and second it takes tooooooo long to discharge customers from College and load up customers to college. Sometimes it takes 12 minutes to load up and that would prevent B68 making the left turn from Brighton on to CI and would basically close down that intersection for at least 10 minutes.

[B35 via Church]

More shuttles may not be a good idea because more buses means more drivers, 60 foot bus takes more people in one shot.

 

And another problem is, you can not touch that North bound B68 bus stop. First of all, it is very hard to make that right from Brighton to CI, and second it takes tooooooo long to discharge customers from College and load up customers to college. Sometimes it takes 12 minutes to load up and that would prevent B68 making the left turn from Brighton on to CI and would basically close down that intersection for at least 10 minutes.

oh, I wasn't advocating for more shuttles....

 

...and I was only referring to PM runs, where pax would be heading to the subway..... There would be no loading at that stop, just discharging.

 

Regardless though, all good points.... you're right, didn't even stop to think about how tight that right for a bus is....

[checkmatechamp13]

Quick question: Did they move the B68 stop at Brighton Beach Avenue/Coney Island Avenue. Back in 2004, I remember that it used to be before the turn (right in front of the exit from the subway station, and behind the B1 stop).

 

I checked on Google Maps after Olegkha mentioned the B68 stop being after the turn, and he was correct, but I couldn't see if the old stop was still there. If they moved it, do you think it had something to do with an increased number of passengers waiting for the B1, and B68 riders were having a hard time hailing the bus?

 

As for your earlier comment, that makes sense, since B1s let the students off right after CI Avenue, which is the easternmost part of the station (front of the train), and Grady is by Brighton 4th Street, which is at the back of the train.

 

And it would make sense that the students would want the (;)/(Q) over the other lines. If they're staying in southern Brooklyn, chances are that it's easier to stay on the bus than transfer to the subway. If they're going further north, the (;)/(Q) have more frequent service (combined) than the other lines, and I'm sure the fact that there's express service attracts some riders to take the Brighton Line if it's a choice between that and the .

[B35 via Church]

Quick question: Did they move the B68 stop at Brighton Beach Avenue/Coney Island Avenue. Back in 2004, I remember that it used to be before the turn (right in front of the exit from the subway station, and behind the B1 stop).

 

I checked on Google Maps after Olegkha mentioned the B68 stop being after the turn, and he was correct, but I couldn't see if the old stop was still there. If they moved it, do you think it had something to do with an increased number of passengers waiting for the B1, and B68 riders were having a hard time hailing the bus?

 

As for your earlier comment, that makes sense, since B1s let the students off right after CI Avenue, which is the easternmost part of the station (front of the train), and Grady is by Brighton 4th Street, which is at the back of the train.

 

And it would make sense that the students would want the (;)/(Q) over the other lines. If they're staying in southern Brooklyn, chances are that it's easier to stay on the bus than transfer to the subway. If they're going further north, the (;)/(Q) have more frequent service (combined) than the other lines, and I'm sure the fact that there's express service attracts some riders to take the Brighton Line if it's a choice between that and the .

ok, so I aint goin crazy, b/c I remember the same thing.... yup, that was a shared B1/68 stop, and it was right by the stairs (that would take you to the front of a manhattan bound train) - physically on Brighton Bch. av....

 

Now it's not like that.... b/c About 3 weeks ago when I took the B68 (coming from nathan's), I notice there was a swarm of ppl. waiting under the el, after the turn (meaning, that NB B68 stop was physically on CI av)... It looked weird to see so many ppl. waiting under there, and I couldn't quite put my finger on it @ the time (as I was eating... lol)....

 

On the B1 side of things, that EB stop isn't as close to the steps anymore... instead, it's right at the SE corner of brighton bch av/CI av; so they moved the stop a couple feet forward (eastward)....

 

To answer your question, absolutely I think that had to do w/ increased passenger volume on the B1.... That, and of course, w/e traffic backups that would result from said pax looking to board B1's (on top of ppl. looking to board 68's when it used to stop there, on top of that...)

[checkmatechamp13]

On the B1 side of things, that EB stop isn't as close to the steps anymore... instead, it's right at the SE corner of brighton bch av/CI av; so they moved the stop a couple feet forward (eastward)....

 

To answer your question, absolutely I think that had to do w/ increased passenger volume on the B1.... That, and of course, w/e traffic backups that would result from said pax looking to board B1's (on top of ppl. looking to board 68's when it used to stop there, on top of that...)

 

So they moved the B1 stop across the street (SE corner vs. SW corner)? I guess it had something to do with buses blocking traffic under the el (vs. an open street)

 

And I guess enrollment in KCC is expanding and cauing the increased ridership. They added some new high schools (one that I know offhand, and I'm sure there's a couple more), so I'm sure that's contributing to higher ridership on the B1.

[Q43LTD]

Would making the (B1) a LTD help?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah that's why I don't care for the idea..... and it absolutely would be a "private route" if you have a public bus route intentionally skipping stops that does not have a LTD counterpart to it.... even if such a bus had enough room to stop at any of the other stops in between to squeeze one poor soul onto it.... that poor soul doesn't get that chance, w/ that idea of havin buses heading directly to the subway nonstop....

 

As for "your set up"... You asked me what else I would do to solve the problem... I replied to that request.... To tell the truth, you haven't elaborated on what your setup actually would be, outside of not having a problem w/ what AZ said....

 

It's like you're implying I'm missing out on some other facet of your setup.... So I ask, What exactly is your setup?

 

Yeah I'm implying that to a degree because I don't see how your setup would work. I can see your problem with the "private shuttles" too. I guess my question is, why can't the school provide their own shuttles?? Assuming that school shuttles aren't possible from KCC, I would personally have a setup with some B1s becoming official shuttles and make other B1s not make that stop, with a SBS set up where students pre-pay to get on, this way the bus can load up faster and get going. I mean how else do you not piss off the residents who need buses?

 

There should be room for their own separate stop over there too or if not, then make one and the school should work with the to create this setup, since it would be to their benefit. I also agree with the idea of using artics if possible for the shuttle.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah I'm implying that to a degree because I don't see how your setup would work. I can see your problem with the "private shuttles" too. I guess my question is, why can't the school provide their own shuttles?? Assuming that school shuttles aren't possible from KCC, I would personally have a setup with some B1s becoming official shuttles and make other B1s not make that stop, with a SBS set up where students pre-pay to get on, this way the bus can load up faster and get going. I mean how else do you not piss off the residents who need buses?

 

There should be room for their own separate stop over there too or not, then make one and the school should work with the to create this setup, since it would be to their benefit. I also agree with the idea of using artics as possible for the shuttle.

 

I think his setup would be similar except that they wouldn't run non-stop to the subway (at least, that wouldn't be the official policy)

 

Would making the (B1) a LTD help?

 

The problem is that the B1 doesn't run frequently enough to qualify for a limited (personally, I think they should lower the standards to qualify for a limited), but essentially, that's what a non-stop bus from KCC to Brighton Beach would be.

[Q43LTD]

The problem is that the B1 doesn't run frequently enough to qualify for a limited (personally, I think they should lower the standards to qualify for a limited), but essentially, that's what a non-stop bus from KCC to Brighton Beach would be.

What would be your standards for a route to be LTD then?

[BrooklynBus]

 

The problem is that the B1 doesn't run frequently enough to qualify for a limited ... but essentially, that's what a non-stop bus from KCC to Brighton Beach would be.

 

That's what they are essentially doing now, though unofficially, and the problem is no one else can get on. Officially running non-stop won't solve anything, because they would still board he locals filling them up and even if they don't, many drivers just won't stop even if there is room in the back and sometimes even in the front. Those drivers need to get in trouble for not stopping.

 

Skipping the first stop really doesn't make sense either, since there are not enough people waiting at the intermediate stops to fill up the bus, only around 10 people; 20 if they have been waiting for 30 minutes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's what they are essentially doing now, though unofficially, and the problem is no one else can get on. Officially running non-stop won't solve anything, because they would still board he locals filling them up and even if they don't, many drivers just won't stop even if there is room in the back and sometimes even in the front. Those drivers need to get in trouble for not stopping.

 

Skipping the first stop really doesn't make sense either, since there are not enough people waiting at the intermediate stops to fill up the bus, only around 10 people; 20 if they have been waiting for 30 minutes.

 

Well, what about running artics on the line? Most of the B1 has enough room for them. I only question if there are some streets that would be difficult and if Ulmer Park has the room for artics... :eek:

[B35 via Church]

Yeah I'm implying that to a degree because I don't see how your setup would work. I can see your problem with the "private shuttles" too. I guess my question is, why can't the school provide their own shuttles?? Assuming that school shuttles aren't possible from KCC,

 

I would personally have a setup with some B1s becoming official shuttles and make other B1s not make that stop, with a SBS set up where students pre-pay to get on, this way the bus can load up faster and get going. I mean how else do you not piss off the residents who need buses?

 

There should be room for their own separate stop over there too or if not, then make one and the school should work with the to create this setup, since it would be to their benefit. I also agree with the idea of using artics if possible for the shuttle.

ehh, Way Too much effort for one very specific group of riders.... KCC students are no more important than any other set of riders in the 5 boroughs to have all that actually implemented.... This includes you, me, and any other commuter that doesn't fall under the category of a KCC student.....

 

What you're suggesting is actually worse than a uni-directional LTD for those students (which is that of the B49 LTD).... SBS, POP, on top of Oleghka's suggestion in adding a few artics... what is this, the Bx12 or the M15 now.... I mean at the rate you're going Via, let's have on board waitresses serving these kids drinks & handing them fluffy pillows & barf bags in their short 10 min. ride to the subway station while we're at it...

 

parrrr-taaaaay !!!!!

 

 

I think his setup would be similar except that they wouldn't run non-stop to the subway (at least, that wouldn't be the official policy)

yes, minus all the extras.....

 

 

So they moved the B1 stop across the street (SE corner vs. SW corner)? I guess it had something to do with buses blocking traffic under the el (vs. an open street)

 

And I guess enrollment in KCC is expanding and cauing the increased ridership. They added some new high schools (one that I know offhand, and I'm sure there's a couple more), so I'm sure that's contributing to higher ridership on the B1.

gettin my directions all mixed up....

 

my fault, it is the SW corner; the B1 KCC bound stop is still on the same side of the subway steps/entrance..... instead of being close® to the steps, it was moved right at the corner (not cross the street).... IIRC, it's either a citibank or a chase bank at that corner... I know it's a bank, though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

ehh, Way Too much effort for one very specific group of riders.... KCC students are no more important than any other set of riders in the 5 boroughs to have all that actually implemented.... This includes you, me, and any other commuter that doesn't fall under the category of a KCC student.....

 

What you're suggesting is actually worse than a uni-directional LTD for those students (which is that of the B49 LTD).... SBS, POP, on top of Oleghka's suggestion in adding a few artics... what is this, the Bx12 or the M15 now.... I mean at the rate you're going Via, let's have on board waitresses serving these kids drinks & handing them fluffy pillows & barf bags in their short 10 min. ride to the subway station while we're at it...

 

parrrr-taaaaay !!!!!

 

You're misconstruing what I'm saying... I'm not saying implement SBS service. I said implement the pay before you board aspect of it because the B/O said that it takes a good 12 minutes to board which is simply too long. My plan is not catering to them specifically, but is looking to deal with the problem on both sides, which is moving these KCC students and also serving the other commuters that need the B1. I personally believe that the school should be paying something for that service, which would justify having them run B1 shuttles.

[B35 via Church]

You're misconstruing what I'm saying... I'm not saying implement SBS service. I said implement the pay before you board aspect of it because the B/O said that it takes a good 12 minutes to board which is simply too long.

 

My plan is not catering to them specifically, but is looking to deal with the problem on both sides, which is moving these KCC students and also serving the other commuters that need the B1. I personally believe that the school should be paying something for that service, which would justify having them run B1 shuttles.

lol... You want to have buses go nonstop from the school to the subway.

 

Do you really think the other commuters/residents will schlepp (stealing your lingo for a sec.) on over to MacKenzie just to board a bus.....

 

What else could you possibly mean by the term "B1 shuttle".....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You want to have buses go nonstop from the school to the subway....

 

What else could you possibly mean by the term "B1 shuttle".....

 

Yeah, well you see I don't see what else you can do... I mean really, how else can you solve the problem aside from running shuttles? I still don't see why the school isn't contributing something. They're creating a riff within the community. I don't think your plan of having B1s skip that first stop will solve anything and the B/Os are not going to adhere to making all stops, seeing that they already bypass most stops even when their buses aren't full.

[BrooklynBus]

 

There should be room for their own separate stop over there too or if not, then make one and the school should work with the to create this setup, since it would be to their benefit.

 

The school has been totally uncooperative. The MTA expressed a need to lengthen the terminal about three years ago so that up to four buses could load at the same time to shorten the loading time. They wanted to move the terminal on to Kingsborough property. The College refused outright. They claimed there is no room which isn't true. Yes there would have to be some construction like the removal of about 20 parking spots or using a small grassy area just inside the gate. When I personally asked the Dean, he gave me a story about not wanting the pollution from the buses.

 

This is one problem you can't blame solely on the MTA.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The school has been totally uncooperative. The MTA expressed a need to lengthen the terminal about three years ago so that up to four buses could load at the same time to shorten the loading time. They wanted to move the terminal on to Kingsborough property. The College refused outright. They claimed there is no room which isn't true. Yes there would have to be some construction like the removal of about 20 parking spots or using a small grassy area just inside the gate. When I personally asked the Dean, he gave me a story about not wanting the pollution from the buses.

 

This is one problem you can't blame solely on the MTA.

 

Hmmm... That's ridiculous... If it were me I would call on the community to see what they have to say about it to pressure the KCC's hand. So are they contributing anything to the service that the is providing? Also, what about the possibility of running artics on the line and/or making the line a SBS route?

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, well you see I don't see what else you can do... I mean really, how else can you solve the problem aside from running shuttles? I still don't see why the school isn't contributing something. They're creating a riff within the community. I don't think your plan of having B1s skip that first stop will solve anything and the B/Os are not going to adhere to making all stops, seeing that they already bypass most stops even when their buses aren't full.

umm....

 

With what I suggested, there would be a bus AT the KCC stop, along with a bus waiting at the next stop.... that is what I meant by the term concurrent.... that is what I specifically said..... You're just takin the portion of the part you don't agree with & runnin with it, as if that's my whole plan...... It would make no sense havin nothin at the KCC stop itself, and a bus waiting at the next stop across the street & over a block, c'mon now.....

 

And I'm not giving the school a get out of jail free card here (if that's what you're implicating)....

Don't let my lack of concern of what the school does (or doesn't do) lead you to that conclusion.....

 

 

 

They claimed there is no room which isn't true.

Typical of a private property owner....

 

I remember that exact same argument being brought up, regarding buses serving QCC - Before they finally got around to adding those Q27 stops inside there... and that's FAR less space than the the space buses could have, if KCC let B1's & B49's inside their property.....

 

KCC is spacious, so I know that's full of s***....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

umm....

 

With what I suggested, there would be a bus AT the KCC stop, along with a bus waiting at the next stop.... that is what I meant by the term concurrent.... that is what I specifically said..... You're just takin the portion of the part you don't agree with & runnin with it, as if that's my whole plan...... It would make no sense havin nothin at the KCC stop itself, and a bus waiting at the next stop across the street & over a block, c'mon now.....

 

And I'm not giving the school a get out of jail free card here (if that's what you're implicating).... Don't let my lack of concern of what the school does or doesn't do lead you to that conclusion.....

 

I'm not running with anything. From my understanding, you said that you would have some buses not make the first stop and I don't see how that solves anything. How specifically does that address the problem of overcrowding and folks not being able to get on at the stops that follow? That's what I'm trying to understand and am not clear on. I mean if it were me and I saw that select buses weren't making the first stop, I would just walk to next stop to increase my chances of getting more buses.

[B35 via Church]

I'm not running with anything. From my understanding, you said that you would have some buses not make the first stop and I don't see how that solves anything. How specifically does that address the problem of overcrowding and folks not being able to get on at the stops that follow? That's what I'm trying to understand and am not clear on. I mean if it were me and I saw that select buses weren't making the first stop,

 

I would just walk to next stop to increase my chances of getting more buses.

That's exactly what you were doing, b/c that's all you kept mentioning, regarding my suggestion....

 

And as far as that little question.... You just answered your own question with that very last sentence.

That's the whole point..... Passenger distribution.

 

If you have concurrent buses (2 buses at a time) stop at KCC, both of those buses during the peak times students are boarding, would be jammed.... and everyone else waiting for buses along the line would be screwed.... that bus I'd have waiting at the next stop, would have less people on it b/c (again, you alluded to it in a prior post) KCC students wouldn't be as willing to walk on over there.... Some would, most won't.....

 

I don't see wth was so hard to understand about that in the first place.... Good god.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's exactly what you were doing, b/c that's all you kept mentioning, regarding my suggestion....

 

And as far as that little question.... You just answered your own question with that very last sentence.

That's the whole point..... Passenger distribution.

 

If you have concurrent buses (2 buses at a time) stop at KCC, both of those buses during the peak times students are boarding, would be jammed.... and everyone else waiting for buses along the line would be screwed.... that bus I'd have waiting at the next stop, would have less people on it b/c (again, you alluded to it in a prior post) KCC students wouldn't be as willing to walk on over there.... Some would, most won't.....

 

I don't see wth was so hard to understand about that in the first place.... Good god.....

 

 

Well, your plan is banking on those KCC students not walking to the next stop, but I don't see what it does to address the problem at the first stop. How do you alleviate the overcrowding at the first stop? That's my issue and that's why I have a hard time understanding it because I don't see how it resolves the problem overall. If you have one bus start at the 2nd stop and most of the KCC students stay at the first stop, then you still have overcrowding at the first stop... You'll still have folks jocking to get on buses. That's why I support running shuttles and preferably doing so with artics. You see I don't know if your plan is based on personal experience or not, but I've been in Manhattan Beach since I used live near there, so I've seen the problem first hand and it's not a question of understanding your proposal but rather how effective it is at addressing the problem.

 

 

If anything your plan seems to say screw the folks at the first stop so that you can have better distribution at the other stops. lol

[B35 via Church]

Well, your plan is banking on those KCC students not walking to the next stop, but I don't see what it does to address the problem at the first stop. How do you alleviate the overcrowding at the first stop? That's my issue and that's why I have a hard time understanding it because I don't see how it resolves the problem overall. If you have one bus start at the 2nd stop and most of the KCC students stay at the first stop, then you still have overcrowding at the first stop... You'll still have folks jocking to get on buses. That's why I support running shuttles and preferably doing so with artics. You see I don't know if your plan is based on personal experience or not, but I've been in Manhattan Beach since I used live near there, so I've seen the problem first hand and it's not a question of understanding your proposal but rather how effective it is at addressing the problem.

 

Oh, So now you wanna imply I don't know what I'm talkin about b/c I've never lived near there... yeah aight man... I supposedly just thought that suggestion up b/c I've never experienced the crowding over there.... Run with that whole corny schtick if you want....

 

 

Far as the rest of your post, I'll say this....

 

The people waiting at the other stops is just as important as KCC students.... that's the last time I'm gonna say that... your idea of having buses go right to the subway (and anyone else who supports it) does not take those other ppl. into consideration at all..... There's nothin you can say that can get me to believe otherwise.

 

As far as alleviating overcrowding AT the KCC stop, it wont.... That was never my intention in the first place - You can't appease everyone all at one time.... come on... that's why we have buses running at specific intervals (headways) throughout the day... If one specific stop is overcrowded, well, first come first serve..... Can't get on that initial bus, then you have to wait for the next bus... KCC students shouldn't be exempt from such a thing during those hrs. when this problem is at its worst....

 

I happen to think running buses concurrently at those times, serve far better as a resolution than having a bus (artic or RTS) pickin up everyone at that one stop & running right to the subway w/o stopping....Then what are you gonna do when the next load of students arrive at the stop? Do the same thing all over again..... All that'll do is have more people waiting at the intermediate stops.....

 

It all goes back to that whole thing about KCC providing shuttles....

The B1 route isn't a KCC shuttle in & of itself, nor should it be relegated to that during peak times......

 

 

If anything you plan seems to say screw the folks at the first stop so that you can have better distribution at the other stops. lol

No it doesn't, b/c I would actually have buses stopping at KCC.....

btw, thanks for proving my initial point in my last post before this one.

 

Where are the buses that would be stopping at the intermediate stops in your plan, is the question.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh, So now you wanna imply I don't know what I'm talkin about b/c I've never lived near there... yeah aight man... I supposedly just thought that suggestion up b/c I've never experienced the crowding over there.... Run with that whole corny schtick if you want....

 

Uh actually I wasn't implying anything of the sort. I was under the impression that you didn't understand the situation, but you clarified what I was confused about. Basically your plan has no intention of completely resolving the overcrowding at the KCC stop and that's what wasn't clear. In that case then, there is nothing to debate now that you've made your position clear. My proposal was to find a way to resolve the overcrowding at KCC AND make the other passengers happy as well.

 

It all goes back to that whole thing about KCC providing shuttles....

The B1 route isn't a KCC shuttle in & of itself, nor should it be relegated to that during peak times......

 

I agree... I'm curious as to why KCC isn't running shuttles anyway?? BrooklynBus should shed some light on this.

 

 

 

Far as the rest of your post, I'll say this....

 

The people waiting at the other stops is just as important as KCC students.... that's the last time I'm gonna say that... your idea of having buses go right to the subway (and anyone else who supports it) does not take those other ppl. into consideration at all..... There's nothin you can say that can get me to believe otherwise.

 

As far as alleviating overcrowding AT the KCC stop, it wont.... That was never my intention in the first place - You can't appease everyone all at one time.... come on... that's why we have buses running at specific intervals (headways) throughout the day... If one specific stop is overcrowded, well, first come first serve..... Can't get on that initial bus, then you have to wait for the next bus... KCC students shouldn't be exempt from such a thing during those hrs. when this problem is at its worst....

 

I happen to think running buses concurrently at those times, serve far better as a resolution than having a bus (artic or RTS) pickin up everyone at that one stop & running right to the subway w/o stopping....Then what are you gonna do when the next load of students arrive at the stop? Do the same thing all over again..... All that'll do is have more people waiting at the intermediate stops.....

 

No it doesn't, b/c I would actually have buses stopping at KCC.....

btw, thanks for proving my initial point in my last post before this one.

 

Where are the buses that would be stopping at the intermediate stops in your plan, is the question.....

 

Well I'll tell you what the should do now what you've made your position clearer. I would run artics on the line as shuttles if possible during select times only when the crowding is a big problem and I would consult the school about them paying for the service to some extent. This is what BrooklynBus needs to clarify. He hasn't said yet if the school pays anything or not, but if they aren't then they should pay something because they're part of the problem. The service would only run when school is in session and then I would have a separate stop for the regular B1 and during that time I would only have select B1s making stops at KCC. I mean it's very clear that if KCC students had a shuttle this problem would not exist. That you cannot deny, but I agree 100% that they should have their own shuttle and if KCC can't provide one then they should consult the and provide services to run a B1 shuttle or some sort of school shuttle for their students. Hell, the students should be making a stink about it too. I mean there is no way that I am attending a school that can't provide some sort of transportation to the students. At my university in the States, we did have student shuttles for those who didn't have a car, and we had a small fee that we paid to cover the service that was part of student services, so that when more shuttles were needed, they could be provided free of charge, with more frequent service and new vans too.

 

Apparently KCC students are out to lunch on that...

 

In Italy, transportation wasn't an issue since I could walk to and from school from my apartment to Downtown. It was only a 15-20 minute walk and good exercise, plus I had the 36 and 37 down the street from my house there by Via dei Serragli, which connected to my street (Via della Chiesa). Both of those buses were similar to the B1 in that they served the train station. In my case the 36 and 37 served the "Stazione Centrale" there in "Downtown" Florence where I could take the train to Rome or Milan or whatever.

[B35 via Church]

Uh actually I wasn't implying anything of the sort. I was under the impression that you didn't understand the situation, but you clarified what I was confused about. Basically your plan has no intention of completely resolving the overcrowding at the KCC stop and that's what wasn't clear. In that case then, there is nothing to debate now that you've made your position clear. My proposal was to find a way to resolve the overcrowding at KCC AND make the other passengers happy as well.

Yeah, I understood the situation... and I think you realized that w/i the crux of this exchange before you even made that errant comment.... That part of your last post was a last ditch effort to try to disqualify what I was sayin & you know it.... didn't think you would resort to that weak tactic as long as we've been posting our musings about different bus routes on this forum....

 

furthermore, you say all this so authoritatively as if your plan undeniably accomplishes what you're sayin my suggestion doesn't do.... lol....

 

No, my plan doesn't try to "completely" resolve the overcrowding; b/c the way I see it, that's impossible.... as long as you have as many ppl. going to KCC (and thanks to checkmate for pointing out that there's also a HS w/i the campus... forgot about that), you're gonna have overcrowding, especially w/ how the B1 is ran in the first place..... running buses nonstop to the subway doesn't "completely" resolve overcrowding either....

 

So with that, I agree.... there's really nothin further to debate.

 

 

I agree... I'm curious as to why KCC isn't running shuttles anyway?? BrooklynBus should shed some light on this.

This.

 

 

 

Well I'll tell you what the should do, now what you've made your position clearer. I would run artics on the line as shuttles if possible during select times only when the crowding is a big problem and I would consult the school about them paying for the service to some extent. This is what BrooklynBus needs to clarify. He hasn't said yet if the school pays anything or not, but if they aren't then they should pay something because they're part of the problem.

 

The service would only run when school is in session and then I would have a separate stop for the regular B1 and during that time I would only have select B1s making stops at KCC. I mean it's very clear that if KCC students had a shuttle this problem would not exist. That you cannot deny, but I agree 100% that they should have their own shuttle and if KCC can't provide one then they should consult with the and provide services to run a B1 shuttle or some sort of school shuttle for their students. Hell, the students should be making a stink about it too. I mean there is no way that I am attending a school that can't provide some sort of transportation to the students. At my university we did have student shuttles for those who didn't have a car, and we had a fee that we paid to cover the service, so that when more shuttles were needed, they could be provided free of charge, with more frequent service and new vans too.

 

Apparently KCC students are out to lunch on that...

Like I said, I aint lettin KCC off the hook in this....

 

I really didn't wanna delve into what I think KCC should do.... But since it is a very valid point of contention, I will say it's no way in the hell they can't realize what's goin on w/ public bus service out there.... I think they're (KCC) turning a blind eye to this & sticking their heads in the sand & hoping that this'll all resolve itself.....

 

If KCC really gave enough of a rat's ass, they would run 2 shuttles.... one from Sheepshead Bay subway (back entrance; voorhies) to the campus... and one from Brighton beach subway (they can pickup right there @ brighton 7th/brighton beach av; right under/between the steps) to the campus.... nip that problem in the bud....

 

I hope this doesn't have anything to do with being cheap..... they wouldn't even have to run the things from AM peak beginning to PM peak end (like they do out there in the bronx w/ the hutchinson metro ctr... my female cousin goes to mercy college & she takes those shuttles from westchester sq(6)).....

 

Hell, when I used to go to Devry (when it was out there in LIC, queens... before they moved to manhattan), they had shuttle buses (dubbed "The Atrium") that ran from the bldg. the institution was in, to the Hunterspoint av station AND court square {23rd/ely}.... looking out the window whilst on QM16's, they still run em too (except they're picking up employees instead of students, AFAIK).... I didn't take em in the morning b/c they would be SRO, so I just walked from hunterspt. subway..... but goin home, hell yeh I took those things.... I wonder if they picking up laguardia students, now that they occupy that bldg....

 

^^ Anyway, Neither one of those examples/places have the crowding that KCC have w/ its students @ the B1/49 terminal..... both are also just as free as my hoody pouch is empty.....

 

and with that, lemme get ready to get up outta here.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, I understood the situation... and I think you realized that w/i the crux of this exchange before you even made that errant comment.... That part of your last post was a last ditch effort to try to disqualify what I was sayin & you know it.... didn't think you would resort to that weak tactic as long as we've been posting our musings about different bus routes on this forum....

 

I don't think it was a last ditch effort at all. I just couldn't see how in the world your plan would resolve the overcrowding problem. I made you made it seem like by having some B1s skip the KCC stop that the problem would be resolved, but you clarified later that your intent is not to necessarily resolve the problem there. I mean the way I see it more service has to concentrated to KCC in order for the B1 as a whole to work better.

 

furthermore, you say all this so authoritatively as if your plan undeniably accomplishes what you're sayin my suggestion doesn't do.... lol....

 

No, my plan doesn't try to "completely" resolve the overcrowding; b/c the way I see it, that's impossible.... as long as you have as many ppl. going to KCC (and thanks to checkmate for pointing out that there's also a HS w/i the campus... forgot about that), you're gonna have overcrowding, especially w/ how the B1 is ran in the first place..... running buses nonstop to the subway doesn't "completely" resolve overcrowding either....

 

So with that, I agree.... there's really nothin further to debate.

 

Well I don't have all of the answers either, but I certainly that the problem can be reduced and that's why I throw out the idea of using artics...

 

 

This.

 

 

 

 

Like I said, I aint lettin KCC off the hook in this....

 

I really didn't wanna delve into what I think KCC should do.... But since it is a very valid point of contention, I will say it's no way in the hell they can't realize what's goin on w/ public bus service out there.... I think they're (KCC) turning a blind eye to this & sticking their heads in the sand & hoping that this'll all resolve itself.....

 

If KCC really gave enough of a rat's ass, they would run 2 shuttles.... one from Sheepshead Bay subway (back entrance; voorhies) to the campus... and one from Brighton beach subway (they can pickup right there @ brighton 7th/brighton beach av; right under/between the steps) to the campus.... nip that problem in the bud....

 

I hope this doesn't have anything to do with being cheap..... they wouldn't even have to run the things from AM peak beginning to PM peak end (like they do out there in the bronx w/ the hutchinson metro ctr... my female cousin goes to mercy college & she takes those shuttles from westchester sq(6)).....

 

Hell, when I used to go to Devry (when it was out there in LIC, queens), they had shuttle buses ("The Atrium") that ran from the bldg to the Hunterspoint av station AND 23rd Ely.... looking out the window whilst on QM16's, they still run em too (except they're picking out employees instead of students, AFAIK).... I didn't take em in the morning b/c they would be SRO, so I just walked from hunterspt. subway..... but goin home, hell yeh I took those things....

 

Neither one of those examples/places have the crowding that KCC have w/ its students @ the B1/49 terminal..... both are also just as free as my hoody pouch is empty.....

 

and with that, lemme get ready to get up outta here.

 

Yeah, BrooklynBus needs to talk about this because I want to know why they aren't providing any shuttles.