More Problems with the B1

[BrooklynBus]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/11/b1-update-and-survey-results/#disqus_thread

[azspeedbullet]

i used to be an KCC student a few ago. I have taken both the yellow school bus and the B1 bus. Overall, what needs to be happen is that the MTA should provide a direct charter bus that goes from the train station to the collage like what all of the various reports say. The KCC cheese bus is a school bus and does not hold as many people compare to a regular city bus

[B35 via Church]

ok, you have a legitimate gripe... but wasn't that always a problem on the B1?

 

 

and to AZ....

I don't agree at all with the MTA providing direct, nonstop service b/w KCC & the train station (Brighton Beach)... It would be hypocritical for me to back such a suggestion, when I was one of the main ones pushin for the x32 to get eliminated - and have school buses transport students to/from that school.....

 

you start doin that, and I wanna see:

- direct B103 or B6 service from utica/av H straight to flatbush junction

- direct BL-20 service from Woodlawn straight to cross county mall

- direct Q53 service straight from Beach 95th to rockaway blvd

- inbound direct N6, N20/21, N22, & N24 service from its respective last stops w/i Nassau, straight to the subway...

 

...after all, you know that's where these folks are seeking service to... so under that logic, why let these riders have to endure the intermediate stops they have to along these respective routes...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

ok, you have a legitimate gripe... but wasn't that always a problem on the B1?

 

 

and to AZ....

I don't agree at all with the MTA providing direct, nonstop service b/w KCC & the train station (Brighton Beach)... It would be hypocritical for me to back such a suggestion, when I was one of the main ones pushin for the x32 to get eliminated - and have school buses transport students to/from that school.....

 

you start doin that, and I wanna see:

- direct B103 or B6 service from utica/av H straight to flatbush junction

- direct BL-20 service from Woodlawn straight to cross county mall

- direct Q53 service straight from Beach 95th to rockaway blvd

- inbound direct N6, N20/21, N22, & N24 service from its respective last stops w/i Nassau, straight to the subway...

 

...after all, you know that's where these folks are seeking service to... so under that logic, why let these riders have to endure the intermediate stops they have to along these respective routes...

 

I don't see the problem with it to be honest. I mean having these buses could allow other folks that need the B1 to actually get a bus and then when school is out they don't have to run the special trippers, thus reducing costs overall.

[B35 via Church]

I don't see the problem with it to be honest. I mean having these buses could allow other folks that need the B1 to actually get a bus and then when school is out they don't have to run the special trippers, thus reducing costs overall.

...and then the complaint will be, there's not enough buses for those other folks b/w the two points (not inclusive), during the times when these direct KCC-subway routes would run....

 

In either case, I don't like the example that would set....

 

You implement this for those particular students, I wanna see other areas w/i the system where the vast majority (I'm talkin almost 100%) of riders don't wanna bother with having buses make intermediate stops between 2 points, also....

[qjtransitmaster]

...and then the complaint will be, there's not enough buses for those other folks b/w the two points (not inclusive), during the times when these direct KCC-subway routes would run....

 

In either case, I don't like the example that would set....

 

You implement this for those particular students, I wanna see other areas w/i the system where the vast majority (I'm talkin almost 100%) of riders don't wanna bother with having buses make intermediate stops between 2 points, also....

 

the market only supports this in a limited scale it would work if the college payed for the service otherwise B35 wins this round

[Gotham Bus Co.]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/11/b1-update-and-survey-results/#disqus_thread

 

By now we all know that the MTA's role is not to provide transportation but to keep certain professional complainers employed. If everything ran like the proverbial Swiss railroad, there would be nothing to complain about and the complainers would lose their sole source of income.

 

B)

[BrooklynBus]

ok, you have a legitimate gripe... but wasn't that always a problem on the B1?

 

and to AZ....

I don't agree at all with the MTA providing direct, nonstop service b/w KCC & the train station (Brighton Beach)...

 

The problems on the B1 are nothing new. In the morning, there is a problem at Brighton Beach Station as I pointed out. In the afternoon, after 2:30 PM, the problem is that if you try to get on after the College and before the Brighton Station, one school days, you could wait up to 45 minutes for a bus because they won't stop. Sometimes the buses are half empty and they still won't stop because they are late.

 

I've met with top MTA Operations personnel on at least three occasions in the past three years and explained the problems to them. Each time they were very polite and promised to take steps to solve the problem. First they added two trips after 4 PM and that helped. They also said they would try to have a bus once every half hour leave the college empty to pick up the other passengers. I did not think this would be a good idea since those buses would only carry 10 to 20 passengers to the station. I just asked for the buses that were half empty to stop or to ask passengers to move to the rear. They need to add running time, so the buses would stop, which they are reluctant to do because that looks bad on paper.

 

On Friday afternoons there is too much service because there is only a half day of school, but they won't provide separate Friday schedules like I previously suggested.

 

Then there were the beach service problems during the 1980s, but since they started doing traffic checks in 1984, that is pretty much under control except if there is a thunderstorm and everyone decides to leave the beach at once. I don't think there is too much they can do in that type of situation.

 

...and then the complaint will be, there's not enough buses for those other folks b/w the two points (not inclusive), during the times when these direct KCC-subway routes would run....

 

 

 

Actually it wouldn't make a difference, because the buses now don't stop anyway. FYI, it would be illegal anyway for them to officially operate buses just for school children which they are doing anyway now. All their buses must allow anyone on who wants to ride. In fact, in the late 1970s, they actually got in trouble with Federal DOT for putting on extra school bus service. The Feds insisted that any buses only for school students must be painted yellow. The MTA managed to talk their way out of that requirement by stating that anyone could ride those buses if they wanted to, even if in practice that doesn't happen.

 

By now we all know that the MTA's role is not to provide transportation but to keep certain professional complainers employed. If everything ran like the proverbial Swiss railroad, there would be nothing to complain about and the complainers would lose their sole source of income.

 

 

 

I do not get paid for complaining if you are referring to me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

...and then the complaint will be, there's not enough buses for those other folks b/w the two points (not inclusive), during the times when these direct KCC-subway routes would run....

 

In either case, I don't like the example that would set....

 

You implement this for those particular students, I wanna see other areas w/i the system where the vast majority (I'm talkin almost 100%) of riders don't wanna bother with having buses make intermediate stops between 2 points, also....

 

I agree, but the thing is, I don't see how this is any different than the school trippers that are run for the high schoolers and junior high schoolers?? I think it could run very well if done right. The college students could have enough buses for them and the regular folks who need the B1 could have it as well. I mean do you think that they would try to cut back if the demand was there? Like I said, when school isn't in session, they wouldn't have to run the school shuttles, thus saving money that way. I think service would be more efficient all around. How else would you solve the problem of there not being enough buses for the other folks??

[Acela Express]

In the afternoon, after 2:30 PM, the problem is that if you try to get on after the College and before the Brighton Station, one school days, you could wait up to 45 minutes for a bus because they won't stop. Sometimes the buses are half empty and they still won't stop because they are late.

 

I just asked for the buses that were half empty to stop or to ask passengers to move to the rear. They need to add running time, so the buses would stop, which they are reluctant to do because that looks bad on paper.

This complaint alone will probably increase the number of 'beekie' rides on that route because whether you're late or not, and your bus is half empty (as you say they are), they need to stop regardless. Whoever's the next SLD in place along the route will take action as needed (putting the operator in place).

[B35 via Church]

I agree, but the thing is, I don't see how this is any different than the school trippers that are run for the high schoolers and junior high schoolers?

 

oh, there's a big difference....

 

* Current school trippers don't skip stops after the school they serve, to head straight to the nearest major destination.... they serve the (would be) next stop along the route....

 

for example.....

The B44 Hudde JHS school trippers (av K/Nostrand) don't go straight to the junction - the next stop is av J/nostrand....

The B44 Sheepshead Bay HS school trippers (over there on batchelder) don't go straight to av U - the next stop is av Y/nostrand....

The B68 Grady trippers (banner/guider) don't go straight to av. U... the next stop is av Z/CI av

 

 

* Whereas having B1's go from KCC straight to the subway skips at least 5 stops on the regular B1 route (don't know how many it is exactly)... that's way more (local) stops skipped b/w 2 LTD stops on LTD buses..... from KCC to Brighton Bch. subway is almost, if not, a mile's distance....

 

I think service would be more efficient all around. How else would you solve the problem of there not being enough buses for the other folks??

Only other thing I can think of ATM is, have these buses (which BrooklynBus just stated are operating illegally anyway by running straight to the subway station) turn right back the hell around from CI av/Brighton beach av, and DH right back to KCC....

 

I don't know how the B1 is scheduled exactly, but I'd run buses concurrent to each other around the specific times they're having this problem (similar to how lcl's & LTD's are scheduled on the B35 @ [mcdonald/church] & B46 [out of kings plaza]).... The 2nd B1 (meaning, the bus behind) that'd run concurrent, would start the next stop after KCC - If students don't wanna try to sardine on the 1st bus there, make 'em cross the street & walk over a block or 2.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

oh, there's a big difference....

 

* Current school trippers don't skip stops after the school they serve, to head straight to the nearest major destination.... they serve the (would be) next stop along the route....

 

for example.....

The B44 Hudde JHS school trippers (av K/Nostrand) don't go straight to the junction - the next stop is av J/nostrand....

The B44 Sheepshead Bay HS school trippers (over there on batchelder) don't go straight to av U - the next stop is av Y/nostrand....

The B68 Grady trippers (banner/guider) don't go straight to av. U... the next stop is av Z/CI av

 

 

* Whereas having B1's go from KCC straight to the subway skips at least 5 stops on the regular B1 route (don't know how many it is exactly)... that's way more (local) stops skipped b/w 2 LTD stops on LTD buses..... from KCC to Brighton Bch. subway is almost, if not, a mile's distance....

 

 

Only other thing I can think of ATM is, have these buses (which BrooklynBus just stated are operating illegally anyway by running straight to the subway station) turn right back the hell around from CI av/Brighton beach av, and DH right back to KCC....

 

I don't know how the B1 is scheduled exactly, but I'd run buses concurrent to each other around the specific times they're having this problem (similar to how lcl's & LTD's are scheduled on the B35 @ [mcdonald/church] & B46 [out of kings plaza]).... The 2nd B1 (meaning, the bus behind) that'd run concurrent, would start the next stop after KCC - If students don't wanna try to sardine on the 1st bus there, make 'em cross the street & walk over a block or 2.....

 

True, but then again, those school trippers have fewer normal passengers and mainly students anyway. The regular passengers know the deal usually and just wait for another bus, so I don't see the difference. One bus with mainly students vs another bus with all students.

[B35 via Church]

True, but then again, those school trippers have fewer normal passengers and mainly students anyway. The regular passengers know the deal usually and just wait for another bus, so I don't see the difference. One bus with mainly students vs another bus with all students.

 

You said you didn't see the difference b/w what azspeedbullet is suggesting, and the how current school trippers are ran.....

 

I just laid that difference out there... You then reply that much is true....

 

Now you're telling me there's mainly students on school trippers than normal pax (which is blatantly obvious)...

a] where did I ever refute that, and b] that's not a point against anything I said in this thread thus far....

 

You simply love being argumentative for the sake of it, don't you... lol....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You said you didn't see the difference b/w what azspeedbullet is suggesting, and the how current school trippers are ran.....

 

I just laid that difference out there... You then reply that much is true....

 

Now you're telling me there's mainly students on school trippers than normal pax (which is blatantly obvious)...

a] where did I ever refute that, and b] that's not a point against anything I said in this thread thus far....

 

You simply love being argumentative for the sake of it, don't you... lol....

 

Not at all... I just think that service would be more efficient that way, at least in this case. You could argue that one is opening up a can of worms, but I would say that each situation is unique and has its own unique solution. Of course the other solution would be to have the college run its own service, but you and I know that's not happening.

 

Having the kids walk to the next stop doesn't solve the problem because you still have the same amount of people that need buses. Perhaps some of them will be too lazy to walk to the next stop, which I'm sure you're banking on but still.

[B35 via Church]

Not at all... I just think that service would be more efficient that way, at least in this case. You could argue that one is opening up a can of worms, but I would say that each situation is unique and has its own unique solution. Of course the other solution would be to have the college run its own service, but you and I know that's not happening.

 

Having the kids walk to the next stop doesn't solve the problem because you still have the same amount of people that need buses. Perhaps some of them will be too lazy to walk to the next stop, which I'm sure you're banking on but still.

To be frank w/ you, I don't care what the college does/would do.... that would be a private service, let em do what they want.... I'm more focused on the B1 end of things....

 

Anyway, goin by that logic in the beginning of that 2nd paragraph, neither does running buses b/w KCC & the subway....

The "same amt. of people" that need buses = college students + residents of manhattan beach.... the residents are the ones that would end up getting screwed by having a B1 KCC shuttle (basically).....

 

So you're tellin me that cramming as many kids onto a bus & running them nonstop to the subway solves the problem for the folks that are currently being flagged (don't know if I can even call it flagging, w/ how blatantly it's being done... just goin on BrooklynBus' word that that's actually happening).... under normal headways no less? I'm sorry, but I'm not in favor of partial private shuttles being operated on local routes like that.... We're just gonna have to disagree on that....

 

That is exactly the point; although some might, the masses of students aren't gonna cross the street over to the next stop to board that 2nd bus.... What I'm suggesting makes a bus available (to board) for those that are waiting b/w KCC & the subway..... I aint sayin it's the best solution, but it does take into account, the students & the residents....

 

What I wanna know (and I'm not directing this at you) is, during what timeframe & how bad is this problem on the B1......

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To be frank w/ you, I don't care what the college does/would do.... that would be a private service, let em do what they want.... I'm more focused on the B1 end of things....

 

Anyway, goin by that logic in the beginning of that 2nd paragraph, neither does running buses b/w KCC & the subway....

The "same amt. of people" that need buses = college students + residents of manhattan beach.... the residents are the ones that would end up getting screwed by having a B1 KCC shuttle (basically).....

 

So you're tellin me that cramming as many kids onto a bus & running them nonstop to the subway solves the problem for the folks that are currently being flagged (don't know if I can even call it flagging, w/ how blatantly it's being done... just goin on BrooklynBus' word that that's actually happening).... under normal headways no less? I'm sorry, but I'm not in favor of partial private shuttles being operated on local routes like that.... We're just gonna have to disagree on that....

 

That is exactly the point; although some might, the masses of students aren't gonna cross the street over to the next stop to board that 2nd bus.... What I'm suggesting makes a bus available (to board) for those that are waiting b/w KCC & the subway..... I aint sayin it's the best solution, but it does take into account, the students & the residents....

 

What I wanna know (and I'm not directing this at you) is, during what timeframe & how bad is this problem on the B1......

 

 

It seems like you don't like the idea because you see it as "private route" that should be serving everyone, even though my set up could make the line more efficient...

 

All I can say is that this problem isn't a new one. This has been going on since my days back at IS 43 which is a skip and a hop away from Manhattan Beach. Sometimes I would walk down to Oriental Blvd and wait for the B1 there to go somewhere and it would be the same set up. You would have to wait for several B1s to pass before you could board one.

[BrooklynBus]

oh, there's a big difference....

 

* Current school trippers don't skip stops after the school they serve, to head straight to the nearest major destination.... they serve the (would be) next stop along the route....

 

 

* Whereas having B1's go from KCC straight to the subway skips at least 5 stops on the regular B1 route (don't know how many it is exactly)... that's way more (local) stops skipped b/w 2 LTD stops on LTD buses..... from KCC to Brighton Bch. subway is almost, if not, a mile's distance....

 

 

Only other thing I can think of ATM is, have these buses (which BrooklynBus just stated are operating illegally anyway by running straight to the subway station) turn right back the hell around from CI av/Brighton beach av, and DH right back to KCC....

 

I don't know how the B1 is scheduled exactly, but I'd run buses concurrent to each other around the specific times they're having this problem (similar to how lcl's & LTD's are scheduled on the B35 @ [mcdonald/church] & B46 [out of kings plaza]).... The 2nd B1 (meaning, the bus behind) that'd run concurrent, would start the next stop after KCC - If students don't wanna try to sardine on the 1st bus there, make 'em cross the street & walk over a block or 2.....

 

Between 2:30 and 6 PM there are four shuttles between Ocean Parkway and KCC because there is no place to turnaround at Coney Island Avenue. The B1 cant make an illegal U-turn like the school buses. The B1 makes a U turn at West 2nd Street. There is heavy student traffic in both directions and the buses supposed to stop both ways but I've seen them head straight to the college Not in Service to pick up although there were 30 people eaiting at Brighton Station. That just seems dumb to me. I know there are more kids waiting at the college, but what's he going to lose by picking up those 30 kids, 2 minutes?

 

Don't know when they run the shuttles in the mornings, maybe from 8 to 10?

 

The problem with having buses skip the first stop at the college is that they'd be leaving 80 kids behind to pick up only 10 or 20 before the subway. The best thing is to have the bus leave not quite full which the dispatchers have been trying to do, but they can't force the drivers to stop. Many don't stop although they only have 60 passengers. I feel sorry for all the old people I see who can't get on. Last year when I did my survey, I counted 14 buses skipping West End Avenue. The B49s are less crowded and most of them do stop although they run less often.

[checkmatechamp13]

you start doin that, and I wanna see:

- direct B103 or B6 service from utica/av H straight to flatbush junction

- direct BL-20 service from Woodlawn straight to cross county mall

- direct Q53 service straight from Beach 95th to rockaway blvd

- inbound direct N6, N20/21, N22, & N24 service from its respective last stops w/i Nassau, straight to the subway...

 

...after all, you know that's where these folks are seeking service to... so under that logic, why let these riders have to endure the intermediate stops they have to along these respective routes...

 

Those actually wouldn't be bad ideas, but the question is how many people are you benefitting by having the buses going faster, compared to the number of people who are at a disadvantage because they have buses bypass them? And what is the level of the disadvantage? (Are the local buses or whatever you want to call them running at a reasonably frequent level?)

 

I mean, if the super-express (or whatever you want to call those buses) don't have much space left anyway, what do you really have to lose by having them travel non-stop?

 

I mean, you have some Queens buses that make one stop in Manhattan (6th Avenue/36th Street in Midtown, and some other stop in Downtown), and then go non-stop to Queens. If the idea works well there (it cuts down on costs a bit and benefits the riders), then why not use it on the local buses? The fact that the riders served are students shouldn't be a factor in this argument (I mean, I would've supported the X32 being kept around if it actually carried a decent number of passengers)

 

I mean, the dollar vans are an example of that service model working. They fill up and go. The driver can complete trips faster (and make more money) and the passengers get where they need to be faster.

 

If you had some B35 buses go non-stop between Utica Avenue, Nostrand Avenue, and East 18th Street (starting from Brownsville), I'm sure it would be beneficial for everybody. The B/O (and passengers) would still deal with the same crowds, but he wouldn't have to worry about stopping to pick up a few people (but it still takes a long time because they have to cram their way on).

[B35 via Church]

It seems like you don't like the idea because you see it as "private route" that should be serving everyone, even though my set up could make the line more efficient...

 

All I can say is that this problem isn't a new one. This has been going on since my days back at IS 43 which is a skip and a hop away from Manhattan Beach. Sometimes I would walk down to Oriental Blvd and wait for the B1 there to go somewhere and it would be the same set up. You would have to wait for several B1s to pass before you could board one.

Yeah that's why I don't care for the idea..... and it absolutely would be a "private route" if you have a public bus route intentionally skipping stops that does not have a LTD counterpart to it.... even if such a bus had enough room to stop at any of the other stops in between to squeeze one poor soul onto it.... that poor soul doesn't get that chance, w/ that idea of havin buses heading directly to the subway nonstop....

 

As for "your set up"... You asked me what else I would do to solve the problem... I replied to that request.... To tell the truth, you haven't elaborated on what your setup actually would be, outside of not having a problem w/ what AZ said....

 

It's like you're implying I'm missing out on some other facet of your setup.... So I ask, What exactly is your setup?

 

 

Those actually wouldn't be bad ideas, but the question is how many people are you benefitting by having the buses going faster, compared to the number of people who are at a disadvantage because they have buses bypass them? And what is the level of the disadvantage? (Are the local buses or whatever you want to call them running at a reasonably frequent level?)

 

I mean, if the super-express (or whatever you want to call those buses) don't have much space left anyway, what do you really have to lose by having them travel non-stop?

 

I mean, you have some Queens buses that make one stop in Manhattan (6th Avenue/36th Street in Midtown, and some other stop in Downtown), and then go non-stop to Queens. If the idea works well there (it cuts down on costs a bit and benefits the riders), then why not use it on the local buses? The fact that the riders served are students shouldn't be a factor in this argument (I mean, I would've supported the X32 being kept around if it actually carried a decent number of passengers)

 

I mean, the dollar vans are an example of that service model working. They fill up and go. The driver can complete trips faster (and make more money) and the passengers get where they need to be faster.

 

If you had some B35 buses go non-stop between Utica Avenue, Nostrand Avenue, and East 18th Street (starting from Brownsville), I'm sure it would be beneficial for everybody. The B/O (and passengers) would still deal with the same crowds, but he wouldn't have to worry about stopping to pick up a few people (but it still takes a long time because they have to cram their way on).

lol.... for one, You're askin those rhetorical questions to the wrong person; I'm not the one supporting this B1 KCC-to-the-subway bit..... Two, those examples were just that - Examples, of a point I was tryna make.... they weren't actual suggestions....

 

The dollar van part of your rebuttal is riduculous.... Dollar vans don't have designated stops.

 

As for the B35, the B1 doesn't have B35 headways....

If there were that many buses on the B1 route (as there currently are on the B35), this wouldn't be a problem.

[checkmatechamp13]

lol.... for one, You're askin those rhetorical questions to the wrong person; I'm not the one supporting this B1 KCC-to-the-subway bit..... Two, those examples were just that - Examples, of a point I was tryna make.... they weren't actual suggestions....

 

The dollar van part of your rebuttal is riduculous.... Dollar vans don't have designated stops.

 

As for the B35, the B1 doesn't have B35 headways....

If there were that many buses on the B1 route (as there currently are on the B35), this wouldn't be a problem.

 

I know they weren’t actual suggestions (having B35 buses stop only at certain stops wasn’t one of the examples you mentioned), but I’m saying that the model does work.

 

The point I was trying to make was how having a bus only serve certain (well-used) stops can work in certain instances, this (KCC-Brighton Beach) being one of them. You said that if this were to happen, people on other routes would ask for it to happen on their routes, and I’m saying that it could very well work on other routes, because the same basic concept already applies to express buses (and dollar vans because they try to minimize the number of stops they make, even if they aren't just at designated stops)

 

If the students knew that the bus was going to go nonstop to the subway, they would all pile onto the super-express (or whatever you want to call them) buses, get a faster ride and leave room for riders coming from Manhattan Beach on other buses.

[B35 via Church]

I know they weren’t actual suggestions (having B35 buses stop only at certain stops wasn’t one of the examples you mentioned), but I’m saying that the model does work.

 

The point I was trying to make was how having a bus only serve certain (well-used) stops can work in certain instances, this (KCC-Brighton Beach) being one of them. You said that if this were to happen, people on other routes would ask for it to happen on their routes, and I’m saying that it could very well work on other routes, because the same basic concept already applies to express buses (and dollar vans because they try to minimize the number of stops they make, even if they aren't just at designated stops)

 

If the students knew that the bus was going to go nonstop to the subway, they would all pile onto the super-express (or whatever you want to call them) buses, get a faster ride and leave room for riders coming from Manhattan Beach on other buses.

The dollar van thing I'm not entertaining any further than this paragraph... they don't try to minimize the # of stops they make, what are you talkin about.... They try to pick up as much people as they can, to make as much money as they can - They could care less about how many stops they make..... Why do you think they're notorious for cutting off other vehicles on the road.....

 

 

The rest of your post I'll consider....

 

The thing w/ the B1 is, buses aren't that frequent.... and worse, buses are coming IN to KCC late.....

The students are gonna pile up..... So are you just gonna have students piling on consecutive B1's & run em non-stop to the subway.... That is just crazy to me.....

 

As for your overall point, or w/e it is you're tryna convey to me..... You tell me you know they were examples of mine, but you also go on to say that it could very well work on other routes... *blank stare*

 

Anyway, all I'm sayin is, I just don't approve of that being the way to go, as it pertains to the B1....

Which is the route of the topic of the discussion.....

 

 

Between 2:30 and 6 PM there are four shuttles between Ocean Parkway and KCC because there is no place to turnaround at Coney Island Avenue. The B1 cant make an illegal U-turn like the school buses. The B1 makes a U turn at West 2nd Street. There is heavy student traffic in both directions and the buses supposed to stop both ways but I've seen them head straight to the college Not in Service to pick up although there were 30 people eaiting at Brighton Station. That just seems dumb to me. I know there are more kids waiting at the college, but what's he going to lose by picking up those 30 kids, 2 minutes?

 

Don't know when they run the shuttles in the mornings, maybe from 8 to 10?

 

The problem with having buses skip the first stop at the college is that they'd be leaving 80 kids behind to pick up only 10 or 20 before the subway. The best thing is to have the bus leave not quite full which the dispatchers have been trying to do, but they can't force the drivers to stop. Many don't stop although they only have 60 passengers. I feel sorry for all the old people I see who can't get on. Last year when I did my survey, I counted 14 buses skipping West End Avenue. The B49s are less crowded and most of them do stop although they run less often.

Wait a second... This problem of skipping every stop in b/w the 2 points is going on in BOTH directions?

It's worse than I thought then.....

 

Where are KCC bound B1's losing all this time, to the point where you constantly got a] 80+ kids or w/e waiting for a bus back in the other direction, b] having to bypass pax @ that bus stop by Brighton Bch subway, and c] heading straight from the subway to KCC w/o making intermediate stops...

 

as far as the B49 goes, I really don't understand why some of these kids don't wait for 49's (like they do B1's) if they're simply tryna catch the subway.... Brighton Beach B's & Q's aren't no more crushloaded at brighton bch than they are & sheepshead.... the B & Q stops at sheepshead... is it a stigma thing? does the B1 get to the subway that much faster than the 49? How many KCC students are coming from the D/N/F, as opposed to the B/Q (north of sheepshead, that is)? I just don't get it.....

 

Something is not adding up, if this is a major problem just on the B1 (and not the 49)....

[checkmatechamp13]

1) The thing w/ the B1 is, buses aren't that frequent.... and worse, buses are coming IN to KCC late.....

The students are gonna pile up..... So are you just gonna have students piling on consecutive B1's & run em non-stop to the subway.... That is just crazy to me.....

 

As for your overall point, or w/e it is you're tryna convey to me..... You tell me you know they were examples of mine, but you also go on to say that it could very well work on other routes... *blank stare*

 

Anyway, all I'm sayin is, I just don't approve of that being the way to go, as it pertains to the B1....

Which is the route of the topic of the discussion.....

 

2) Wait a second... This problem of skipping every stop in b/w the 2 points is going on in BOTH directions?

It's worse than I thought then.....

 

Where are KCC bound B1's losing all this time, to the point where you constantly got a] 80+ kids or w/e waiting for a bus back in the other direction, b] having to bypass pax @ that bus stop by Brighton Bch subway, and c] heading straight from the subway to KCC w/o making intermediate stops...

 

as far as the B49 goes, I really don't understand why some of these kids don't wait for 49's (like they do B1's) if they're simply tryna catch the subway.... Brighton Beach B's & Q's aren't no more crushloaded at brighton bch than they are & sheepshead.... the B & Q stops at sheepshead... is it a stigma thing? does the B1 get to the subway that much faster than the 49? How many KCC students are coming from the D/N/F, as opposed to the B/Q (north of sheepshead, that is)? I just don't get it.....

 

Something is not adding up, if this is a major problem just on the B1 (and not the 49)....

 

1) But that’s the thing, though: They’re already running nonstop to the subway. You might as well have them do it officially.

 

BrooklynBus said that the problem was that B/Os were supposed to leave some space for passengers down the line, but B/Os would end up leaving the space but not picking up the passengers. If you assigned a certain number of those trippers to be official super-express trips, the students would be able to fill up the buses completely. Then, the remaining few buses would be carrying whatever students don’t want to be bother packing into the super-express buses (but they‘d still have a few standees), plus Manhattan/Brighton Beach residents.

 

And when you made the original statement that this plan shouldn’t be implemented in the B1’s case unless it were implemented in other cases, it got me thinking that there were other routes on which this type of setup could be implemented (in addition to the B1 from KCC). I know those were just examples (which is why I didn’t say it would work on any of them, simply because I don’t know anything about crowding on those routes), but I’m saying the general idea is sound (that’s why I suggested it for the B35, because from what you and other members in the East Flatbush area have described, that type of setup would work well)

 

2) The 80+ kids might’ve just transferred from the subway. If a ( and a both have a few hundred people on them each, it’s not out of the question that, out of those, 80 would be KCC students.

 

And I can sort of see why, when given a choice, the students would pick Brighton Beach over Sheepshead Bay. When I lived in Brighton Beach, I remember that Brighton Beach Avenue was a wider street (I mean, I was a small kid, so maybe it was the busy-ness that made it seem wide), and from West End Avenue/Oriental Blvd to the Brighton Beach station was shorter and faster than to the Sheepshead Bay station.

[B35 via Church]

1) But that’s the thing, though: They’re already running nonstop to the subway. You might as well have them do it officially.

 

BrooklynBus said that the problem was that B/Os were supposed to leave some space for passengers down the line, but B/Os would end up leaving the space but not picking up the passengers. If you assigned a certain number of those trippers to be official super-express trips, the students would be able to fill up the buses completely. Then, the remaining few buses would be carrying whatever students don’t want to be bother packing into the super-express buses (but they‘d still have a few standees), plus Manhattan/Brighton Beach residents.

 

And when you made the original statement that this plan shouldn’t be implemented in the B1’s case unless it were implemented in other cases, it got me thinking that there were other routes on which this type of setup could be implemented (in addition to the B1 from KCC). I know those were just examples (which is why I didn’t say it would work on any of them, simply because I don’t know anything about crowding on those routes), but I’m saying the general idea is sound (that’s why I suggested it for the B35, because from what you and other members in the East Flatbush area have described, that type of setup would work well)

 

2) The 80+ kids might’ve just transferred from the subway.

 

If a ( and a both have a few hundred people on them each, it’s not out of the question that, out of those, 80 would be KCC students.

 

And I can sort of see why, when given a choice, the students would pick Brighton Beach over Sheepshead Bay. When I lived in Brighton Beach, I remember that Brighton Beach Avenue was a wider street (I mean, I was a small kid, so maybe it was the busy-ness that made it seem wide), and from West End Avenue/Oriental Blvd to the Brighton Beach station was shorter and faster than to the Sheepshead Bay station.

 

1) lol... yes, and the officiality (or w/e you wanna call it) of it, is what I'd be (and still am, tbh) against....

 

....and as for that explanation of what you were tryna convey to me....

aight, gotcha.

 

 

2) See, I would be the one to wait for the lesser used bus (or the route that is the least problematic) & ride that out to the nearest subway sta. that serves......

 

Anyway, the one thing I come to known about ridership habits @ Brighton Beach subway during school let out hrs. is that, the Grady kids ran (boarded) the back of the train (manhattan bound B's, I'm talkin about), and the KCC students & other pax. tend to board anything from the front to the middle of the train..... Not to say the opposite never happens, but that's been the case.... Everything b/w like, the middle third of the train, would be occupied by folks gettin on at sheepshead, kings hwy (and the local stops, if we're talkin about the Q)..... Then trains would start gettin emptier as students (kcc, grady, dewey, madison, murrow, etc.) would start to get off at Newkirk, on up the line....

 

 

 

I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that the masses coming off the B1 @ Brighton beach, were seeking (bombarding) manhattan bound B's/Q's.... You didn't see many students waiting for coney island bound trains (possibly to xfer to the N/D/F).... I ask BrooklynBus that b/c maybe things have changed since I last went to grady hs ('99).....

 

btw, none of this is in refutation w/ what you're sayin in part 2 of this post.....

[Olegkha]

May I chime in ( I drive that route every day, and I pick up full bus at the college at least 2 times a day )

 

1 or maybe 2 Artic buses would solve the problem

Pick up right before the MacKenzie loop ( the spot where we sit and wait our time to go into the loop ) then head straight to West Ave make a right, Neptune make a left, Coney Island Left, Brighton Left, drop off 1 block down, right after Oceana Condos driveway ( there is a bus stop there ) ( If Artic cant make the loop turn it can cross oriental and head to the canal and make a left at the canal to eventually end up at Neptune)

 

Pick up there and head regular B1 to college.

 

1 or maybe 2 Artic buses will take care of the crowd.

 

We in B49 pick up a full load, but most of the kids get out at the train station. Same as B1, this will help with people going to the train and will give us some room in the bus to stop and pick up Manhattan beach residents, who scream and curse us out as we pass by with out pulling over right now.

[B35 via Church]

May I chime in ( I drive that route every day, and I pick up full bus at the college at least 2 times a day )

 

1 or maybe 2 Artic buses would solve the problem

Pick up right before the MacKenzie loop ( the spot where we sit and wait our time to go into the loop ) then head straight to West Ave make a right, Neptune make a left, Coney Island Left, Brighton Left, drop off 1 block down, right after Oceana Condos driveway ( there is a bus stop there ) ( If Artic cant make the loop turn it can cross oriental and head to the canal and make a left at the canal to eventually end up at Neptune)

 

Pick up there and head regular B1 to college.

 

1 or maybe 2 Artic buses will take care of the crowd.

 

We in B49 pick up a full load, but most of the kids get out at the train station. Same as B1, this will help with people going to the train and will give us some room in the bus to stop and pick up Manhattan beach residents, who scream and curse us out as we pass by with out pulling over right now.

 

Sure you can :tup:... first hand knowledge is always appreciated.

 

 

Sans the artic part, your routing is the reverse of what I'd suggest those B1 shuttles (or w/e) do....

when I told via garibaldi 8 in [post #11]:

 

Only other thing I can think of ATM is, have these buses (which BrooklynBus just stated are operating illegally anyway by running straight to the subway station)

 

turn right back the hell around from CI av/Brighton beach av, and DH right back to KCC....

 

 

....pretty much what I was alluding to in that snippet was.... Have those crushloaded B1's (no direct shuttle to the subway) do the normal route from KCC until it hits CI av, make that right (under the el') & then drop off w/e pax on board all at the subway station (it's a current NB B68 stop; so they'll have to cross the street to get to the entrance).... then after that, head back to KCC via neptune, west end, and oriental.... and then do a "normal" B1 run from KCC to Bay Ridge.....