ac1962 Posted December 15, 2011 Share #1 Posted December 15, 2011 JUST FOUND OUT MTA wants to increase productivity and reduce labor costs,by breaking down already negotiated barriers between different pay rates and tasks for cleaner and station maintainer. cleaners already have their hands full,now they want to add on more duties? they also want to increase probation for new hires by 2 years instead of 1 year. no more rest periods at subway terminals for workers who have completed a run from one end to another. making 20% of subway motorman,conductors and tower operators part-time, with no eight-hour work day minimum and more tasks for bus cleaners including fueling buses and helping change tires. how does anyone feel about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted December 15, 2011 Share #2 Posted December 15, 2011 Face-palm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2011 Share #3 Posted December 15, 2011 Same things past three Contracts.... No surprise at all.. Dont be surpised if some of it goes through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted December 15, 2011 Share #4 Posted December 15, 2011 Maybe if they quit laying off people they actually need to keep around the ones they don't they'd have desired productivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2011 Share #5 Posted December 15, 2011 Maybe if they quit laying off people they actually need to keep around the ones they don't they'd have desired productivity. No this is so they wont have to Hire anybody Else or have them Full Time.... Anybody new coming down here with this Contract is going to "Feel It" Mark My Words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted December 15, 2011 Share #6 Posted December 15, 2011 No this is so they wont have to Hire anybody Else or have them Full Time.... Anybody new coming down here with this Contract is going to "Feel It" Mark My Words... I didn't want to touch that point because its something I feel like is happening everywhere. But I totally see how that would be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 16, 2011 Share #7 Posted December 16, 2011 The and the affected unions ALWAYS ask for the moon at contract time. This is just an opening ploy/trial balloon for the public's consumption from the authority. Given the recent ( 2000-2009) national mood toward unions and civil servants in general I'm anxious to see how this plays out on 2012. Perhaps the recent events in Wisconsin, Ohio, and other mid-western states, as well as the OWS protests have opened some people's eyes that your unionized neighbor is not your real enemy. Just my opinion. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedChikkin Posted December 16, 2011 Share #8 Posted December 16, 2011 Don't forget that the MTA never has money around contract time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted December 16, 2011 Share #9 Posted December 16, 2011 The and the affected unions ALWAYS ask for the moon at contract time. This is just an opening ploy/trial balloon for the public's consumption from the authority. Given the recent ( 2000-2009) national mood toward unions and civil servants in general I'm anxious to see how this plays out on 2012. Perhaps the recent events in Wisconsin, Ohio, and other mid-western states, as well as the OWS protests have opened some people's eyes that your unionized neighbor is not your real enemy. Just my opinion. Carry on. Unions have never been our enemy! My dad's a union worker, always has been one, and now I fully understand why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTSignals Posted December 16, 2011 Share #10 Posted December 16, 2011 this is why alot of the older guys are retiring.........upper mangement is grinding for 95% maintaince........which is impossible when you have to deal with all this flagging, BS , trouble, setting up GOs, taking down GOs, IG Investigation, rail jobs and everything else.....its 100% impossible ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 16, 2011 Share #11 Posted December 16, 2011 Well its not really "breaking down the union (from their perspective)", its trying to bring it into line with the railroads. They have 5-year top pay packages, as do the salaried employees downtown. In fact one of the reasons not too many go to supervision (SSSA) or management is because of the 5-year to top pay plan in both those groups. I'm a T/O right now. I have no problem going to ATD, but of course I won't because I would be taking a pay cut to become a supervisor of T/O's (similar to bus dispatchers and B/O's). Even if I go to TD, it would also be a pay cut after I get to top pay for T/O for the first couple years until probation ended. Even TSS in the beginning is a pay cut if you factor in the overtime train operators have access too. So that's the deal with the 5-year pay. I do think the 5-year plan for new people will come into effect, as a trade off for something else (probably small raise or raises). In their last contract, the supervisor union agreed to 2-year probation for newly promoted employees, which is why there asking it from TWU. I actually have no problem with this in theory (especially for train operators, as most would get 18-20 months of operation in yards and the road before being off probation instead of 6-8), but the other details are based on one year. You have generally one year to return to your title (or get demoted) without losing seniority. When supervisors agreed to the 2-year probation, they didn't go back to TWU (or did and was denied) and ask for that 1-year rule to be expanded to 2 so management can demote you with 18 months and you still have seniority as an hourly. Technically, right now you are a brand new employee seniority-wise if you go back after a year unless labor relations cuts you a deal. I think the 2-year probation will come into place this contract, with those revised provisions and updates to allow full seniority if one goes back on their own accord or demoted after 1 year. Right now, one is in no man's land between year 1 and 2. The biggest thing they want is a new pension tier with employees paying a healthy amount into it (they really want it eliminated entirely like what has occurred in the private sector generally but they'll settle for having to fund it less) and their health plans. We say our health insurance is substandard (especially the dental), they say its too expensive and expansive. Where this will land, I dunno. The whole "no rest between trips" makes no sense to me. They critiqued me yesterday about safety at the workplace (which includes fatigue awareness) then tells us at contract time that we want you to basically stay on the same train the whole day (save 5 mins to go to the bathroom). Many people think we are overpaid (including some here, and I know who you are B)) and generally speaking, we might actually be (slightly). But that's a problem with the MTA and how it has laid out its compensation package. With the conditions we go through and work, the package should be more about rest, recovery, and health maintenance than pure money, but what do I know? We are paid to be critically alert in the midst of monotony, and while it seems easy, to some it may not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted December 16, 2011 Share #12 Posted December 16, 2011 The and the affected unions ALWAYS ask for the moon at contract time. This is just an opening ploy/trial balloon for the public's consumption from the authority. Given the recent ( 2000-2009) national mood toward unions and civil servants in general I'm anxious to see how this plays out on 2012. Perhaps the recent events in Wisconsin, Ohio, and other mid-western states, as well as the OWS protests have opened some people's eyes that your unionized neighbor is not your real enemy. Just my opinion. Carry on. Exactly...perfect explanation. Analogy: it's like fighting with a girlfriend. She says she wishes you looked more like Brad Pitt. So you counter by saying that you wish she looked more like Leighton Meester. Then you both agree neither is going to happen, cancel them out, and get on to fighting about you not doing dishes and her not cooking more. If you counter her Brad Pitt request by asking her to cook more, she's going to say no because you don't look like Brad Pitt, and then you lost the point you really intended to win. In short, it's all part of negotiations. Trouble is the economic climate and the pissed off private sector indentured servants are so misguided by jealousy about what has been stolen from them, that public opinion and arbitrators may actually allow some of the more wacky elements to make it into a contract. That's what's scariest to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 16, 2011 Share #13 Posted December 16, 2011 One of management's big problems is how to get "more" out of the workforce. One of the biggest problems are overtime pay. They wouldn't have many labor issues if it wasn't for the abundance of overtime, and all was paid a straight 8 (or straight 40). Now I do not know the conditions in barns and depots (what I do know is that they generally run two shifts - 7-3 and 3-11), but I have not heard them offer anything drastic that may actually increase productivity. Some of the biggest overtime producers (at for subways, which is what this forum stands for): - extra trips (pays 4 hours regardless of length) - working regular day off (time and a half for the whole day) - misc. overtime (a variety of things from extra platform duty, travel time, etc) Jobs that pay mandated overtime have not historically inflated the overtime budget like those above. The problem is many of the train lines are too long to make two trips for 8 hours. Generally speaking, lines with one-way trips less than 45 minutes, 4 trips is mandated for an 8 hour day . Between 45-60 minutes one-way, 3 trips is generally the norm . Anything over 60, its usually 2 trips; however, only over 75 do you actually get good productivity from the eight hours. Once you get over 90, the two trips will pay overtime. And of course personnel are still needed to transport trains from yards to stations. Rest and recovery time has been a union want for a long time, as alertness is the hardest part of our job (because it's monotonous its easy for the mind to wander and sleep to show up). However, very few people have no problem working 10 hours... especially that 2+1 at the end. There has been mixed feelings about this but I always went out there and proposed this: - 10 hour workday (straight time) with 3 days off back to back to back - Still paying the employee 40 hours, but now in many cases you can get the same amount of work done that you paying the employee 40+ OT. Enough rest and relaxation can be scheduled into the job to alleviate union complaints (including a full one-hour lunch which is seldom found anywhere down here but is fairly commonplace in other environments). And a full three days off to fully recoup. One can actually go to Far Rock twice and have breaks and a lunch and management not have to pay them the equivalent of 11 hours! In a 10 hour day setup, all line jobs now become 2 trips+work. Yes there is more work per day, but with people I've talked to, when done right productivity will be increased dramatically, and management gets what they've wanted for years, to pay everyone 40 hours (which gets the public off their back and hours). But the union won't ever go for this, because it amounts to a pay cut (as in for years they've figured overtime into salaries, and a 10 hour workday would cut into that sharply), and its senior guys that run the union (the same guys that can pick 11 hour-paying jobs if they went back to the road) But if the union wants what they have for years, which is pay on the same scale with MNR and LIRR and even PATH (which we secretly see as an issue of race, as there are many more white employees with those services), it may just have to be inventive and revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 17, 2011 Share #14 Posted December 17, 2011 Long story short, it comes down to this: - Management wants TWU work rules to roughly mirror those of the railroads (much of the stuff we take for granted is unpaid on railroads) without paying us in line with railroads (which at the moment is about 20% higher for related operating titles). - TWU wants railroad pay without sacrificing on work rules and health packages. Travel time and extra board time are unpaid, along with the part of school car that doesn't involve actually learning your job (in TWU school cars, the first week or so has nothing to do with the job you just got hired/promoted to do, its presentations about benefits and learning the rules of the organization, which are quizzed later on but your job is not on the line if you fail). That first piece of railroad training is unpaid, and actually going on to being hired and starting actual training is based on a test after that first portion (which you must pass). Of course there's still the 5 year pay plan mentioned in previous posts. Some notes based upon what i read when I applied for both LIRR/MNR a few weeks back: - MNR pays slightly more than LIRR. - TWU health packages are generally noted as better than the railroads. - Railroad conductors are generally paid what T/O in TWU are paid. However, railroad C/R does do some air brake training and of course handles money as needed, TWU C/R does neither. This is in line with that combined title with two levels, which management has been pressing for for years. - Locomotive engineers are generally paid what TSS (train service supervisor) in SSSA are paid. However, the training is more comprehensive and includes more than what the T/O training includes. The closest approximation is a T/O with both OPTO and misc. (work train) training, and qualified in both IND/BMT and IRT divisions. - The railroad retirement is better paying, but TWU does get lifetime medical (not sure if railroads get that as well) given normal retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboroughBridge Posted December 18, 2011 Share #15 Posted December 18, 2011 Face-palm Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediccjh Posted December 19, 2011 Share #16 Posted December 19, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3railgreg Posted December 29, 2011 Share #17 Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks for the post Two Timer, highly informative. We as a state union just finished up our "game" with the state contract negotiations. Seems some is not much different than yours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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