Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Q43LTD]

It's worse... he wants a Fort Totten/Bayside - SE Queens route. What?

Oh hell no! It doesn't even connect to a subway station! Just 2 LIRR stations.

[Astoria Line]

Oh hell no! It doesn't even connect to a subway station! Just 2 LIRR stations.

 

That's what happens when you read maps instead of riding the routes..

[Q90]

That's what happens when you read maps instead of riding the routes..

I know that buses should connect to subway lines. Hence that was a small reason why the former Q89 was cut. It didn't connect to a subway station. Heck, it didn't even connect to LIRR. Anyways I know that if this wouldn't help the Q27 then my proposal would be useless. And about you saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it" even if a route doesn't need to be altered, it could always be improved with proper changes.

[B35 via Church]

Anyways, new proposal. Reroute the Q13 to Cambria Heights at 227 Street/114 Avenue via Bell and Springfield Boulevards. This is to make the route redundant to the Q27 (in a good way though) and siphon off some passengers who use it since that route is overcrowded. Also in this proposal, the Q31 would be rerouted onto Francis Lewis Boulevard (exactly like B35viaChurch's earlier proposal to straighten that route. This Q13 rerouting also makes it even more unnecessary for the Q31 to run down Bell Boulevard. Here's the map of it:

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=214089513480814599261.0004e2eb808e72bf8bf3c

 

Also Q13 doesn't need to do Fort Totten-Flushing as the Q16 already does that job already and the Q28 is nearby too.

1) With this Q13 suggestion, you do realize you're encouraging a 2-fare zone commute with this route here.... Even the long, drawn out Q27 runs to the subway..... Just by looking at this map, I can immediately tell that you're far too focused with making *straight* routes for the sake of them being straight, instead making routes that actually considers patrons' wants & needs of said communities (that just so happens to be straight).... There is a difference.

 

2) I suggested that Q31 diversion to take buses off Bell, due to the fact that the masses (patrons, commuters) are taking Q13's to Flushing from commercial Bell Blvd, and points north.... The Q31 up there is mainly for all the schoolkids in the general area..... I mean, thanks for the recognition & all that, but I just wanted to make it crystal (clear) to others that I didn't think up that suggestion so that some other route could perhaps utilize Bell Blvd (like your Q13 does).....

 

3) Fort Totten is a convenient terminal for the current Q13 & Q16 and nothing more.... That walk from the Bay Terrace Library to Fort Totten isn't as close as you're trying to pass it off as.... I've done that walk enough times, and it's an absolute PITA to cross Bell Blvd in that area - because you have all the traffic diving onto the cross island pkwy (which I think is a poor place to have a highway entrance, but w/e)....

 

 

Oh hell no! It doesn't even connect to a subway station !

That's the first thing I noticed.....

 

Okay, everything about this is really screwed up.

 

First of all, the reason that people use the Q13 in Fort Totten is because it gets them to Flushing, and it's faster than the Q16. If there were a lot of people transferring to the Q27 at Bell, I might buy that you could extend a route down there. But there aren't, because the demand doesn't exist.

 

Second of all, the Q13 is almost certainly getting cut to every half hour, if not worse, when you do this. There's no demand for Fort Totten-Cambria Heights.

 

Third of all, you're relieving the wrong section of the Q27. The Q27 only gets super congested between Flushing and Horace Harding/QCC, which is why the short turns end there. This doesn't do ANYTHING to solve the problems the Q27 has.

 

Don't mess with my home routes.

Agree with everything you say here, except the Q13 being faster than the Q16.... I'd beg to differ on that one.

The Q13 most certainly does the job/puts in work on northern & on bell, but I can't say that it's faster than the Q16 from their common end terminals...

 

It's worse... he wants a Fort Totten/Bayside - SE Queens route. What?

You have to be kidding me...

 

The Q27 has a large ridership base because of certain locations, which your Q13 bypasses.

Yeah, I concur - terminating his Q13's with the Q83 is nothing short of arbitrary.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Hmm, why not terminate some Q53's at Jackson Heights instead of Woodside. Every other bus would go to Woodside (besides ridership on that point isn't really the best, but ridership south of Queens Blvd evens it out). With hourly late night service, it could terminate at 75th instead of traveling all the way to Woodside. The short-turn Q53 buses would terminate (stop) at the Glendale Bound Q47 stop, instead of it's current stop. Except for rush hours, every other bus would terminate at Jackson Heights and all future late night service would terminate at Jackson Heights.

 

In addition, the Q53 would have a stop at 69 street and Roosevelt Avenue.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

Hmm, why not terminate some Q53's at Jackson Heights instead of Woodside. Every other bus would go to Woodside (besides ridership on that point isn't really the best, but ridership south of Queens Blvd evens it out). With hourly late night service, it could terminate at 75th instead of traveling all the way to Woodside. The short-turn Q53 buses would terminate (stop) at the Glendale Bound Q47 stop, instead of it's current stop. Except for rush hours, every other bus would terminate at Jackson Heights and all future late night service would terminate at Jackson Heights.

 

In addition, the Q53 would have a stop at 69 street and Roosevelt Avenue.

Nah. There are a lot of people that take the Q53 from Woodside or ride it to Woodside. If there wasn't demand over there, then the Q53 would be terminating at Jackson Heights in the first place.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Nah. There are a lot of people that take the Q53 from Woodside or ride it to Woodside. If there wasn't demand over there, then the Q53 would be terminating at Jackson Heights in the first place.

I'm not saying all Q53's, I'm saying every other Q53.

[bobtehpanda]

Question: How heavily used is the Q20/Q44 between Jamaica Station - Sutphin/Archer and Archer/Merrick?

[B35 via Church]

- (I'm) not discussing the bit about terminating Q53's in Jackson Heights vs Woodside right now, in any capacity...

 

 

Question: How heavily used is the Q20/Q44 between Jamaica Station - Sutphin/Archer and Archer/Merrick?

- The Q20's b/w that stretch, I don't know....

 

- The Q44, I'd say you can get about 40-50 ppl.or so b/w that stretch (from the Q44 terminal to the LIRR sta.) on a good day.... Most of which either embark at the first stop (it's terminal) or on Archer/Sutphin (before the turn onto Sutphin)..... On average (including off peak trips), eh, I'd say you can get 20-25 b/w that stretch or so..... This is going towards the Bronx....

 

As far as Queens bound, Q44's tend to tank at Sutphin/Jamaica....

[Q90]

Hmm, why not terminate some Q53's at Jackson Heights instead of Woodside. Every other bus would go to Woodside (besides ridership on that point isn't really the best, but ridership south of Queens Blvd evens it out). With hourly late night service, it could terminate at 75th instead of traveling all the way to Woodside. The short-turn Q53 buses would terminate (stop) at the Glendale Bound Q47 stop, instead of it's current stop. Except for rush hours, every other bus would terminate at Jackson Heights and all future late night service would terminate at Jackson Heights.

 

In addition, the Q53 would have a stop at 69 street and Roosevelt Avenue.

 

About short turning some Q53s, a big NO. People use the Q53 from Woodside, too many to short turn some of then at Moore. Also about a stop at 69/Roosevelt? No comment on that but what is the necessity in doing that? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

About short turning some Q53s, a big NO. People use the Q53 from Woodside, too many to short turn some of then at Moore. Also about a stop at 69/Roosevelt? No comment on that but what is the necessity in doing that? 

Not every Q53 is even close to 10 passengers off peak hours. When you have buses bunching (which is almost always), you probably have 3, 3, and 3, or 5,4, and 0 (because they usually end up in three's somehow). The gap between Limited stops is big between 74th and Woodside. I'm not saying to make every stop, but a stop at 69 wouldn't be the end of the world.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Q90]

Not every Q53 is even close to 10 passengers off peak hours. When you have buses bunching (which is almost always), you probably have 3, 3, and 3, or 5,4, and 0 (because they usually end up in three's somehow). The gap between Limited stops is big between 74th and Woodside. I'm not saying to make every stop, but a stop at 69 wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

I clearly said I didn't care about a stop at 69 Street  . And 3657 feet for a gap between two limited stops really isn't really too big imo.

[qjtransitmaster]

Not every Q53 is even close to 10 passengers off peak hours. When you have buses bunching (which is almost always), you probably have 3, 3, and 3, or 5,4, and 0 (because they usually end up in three's somehow). The gap between Limited stops is big between 74th and Woodside. I'm not saying to make every stop, but a stop at 69 wouldn't be the end of the world.

You mean a stop that won't be used just stop.

[aemoreira81]

Q29 and Q33

 

With the new Q70 route due to start September 8, that service is likely to require 5 or 6 buses, and the Q33 will probably give up at least 3 buses to the Q70 on any given day.  As such, since the Q33 would likely only be serving the immediate neighborhood, I would propose terminating the trips that today end at 94 and 23 during the rush at 85 Street and 23 Avenue (last stop would actually be at 82 Street and 23 Avenue, across the street from the M60/Q48 stop) and have them use the BQE to deadhead back, saving possibly a bus or 2 in the rush hour. At other times, with fewer crowds because airport traffic is eliminated from the Q33 (very few riders travel to and from LGA from the neighborhood), I would propose cutting one bus per hour from the Q33.

 

That savings would then be redirected to the Q29. As it is, travel up 82 and 83 Streets to and from LaGuardia Depot is already deadhead distance. Instead, I would propose extending the Q29 to operate in service up the Q33 line and then terminate at the new Q33 terminus. This would give central Jackson Heights direct access to Queens Center Mall. This may require an additional bus or two, but it is not as if deadhead buses are traveling fast down 82 and 83 anyhow.

Edited August 4, 2013 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

Q29 and Q33

 

With the new Q70 route due to start September 8, that service is likely to require 5 or 6 buses, and the Q33 will probably give up at least 3 buses to the Q70 on any given day.  As such, since the Q33 would likely only be serving the immediate neighborhood, I would propose terminating the trips that today end at 94 and 23 during the rush at 85 Street and 23 Avenue (last stop would actually be at 82 Street and 23 Avenue, across the street from the M60/Q48 stop) and have them use the BQE to deadhead back, saving possibly a bus or 2 in the rush hour. At other times, with fewer crowds because airport traffic is eliminated from the Q33 (very few riders travel to and from LGA from the neighborhood), I would propose cutting one bus per hour from the Q33.

 

That savings would then be redirected to the Q29. As it is, travel up 82 and 83 Streets to and from LaGuardia Depot is already deadhead distance. Instead, I would propose extending the Q29 to operate in service up the Q33 line and then terminate at the new Q33 terminus. This would give central Jackson Heights direct access to Queens Center Mall. This may require an additional bus or two, but it is not as if deadhead buses are traveling fast down 82 and 83 anyhow.

Yeah, that logic of, not very many riders ride the 33 b/w LGA & the immediate residential areas it serves, was part of the reason they came out w/ the 70 in the first place...

 

Here we go w/ the whole deadhead thing again..... you would save more money by simply combining the two routes; they would go for the gusto if the aim was to save money.... the savings you're mentioning is small fries, which would still involve running 33's, 29's, and 70's in service... that's still quite a bit of trips per route in both directions to be accounted for..... If that's the case, you may as well leave 33's & 29's as is, instead of truncating 33's to over there where the 69 ends, and having 29's run to where the truncated 33 will end up terminating...... You're actually making 33's less useful than what the MTA plans on ending up doing w/ the 33.....

[NewFlyer 230]

Yeah, that logic of, not very many riders ride the 33 b/w LGA & the immediate residential areas it serves, was part of the reason they came out w/ the 70 in the first place...

 

Here we go w/ the whole deadhead thing again..... you would save more money by simply combining the two routes; they would go for the gusto if the aim was to save money.... the savings you're mentioning is small fries, which would still involve running 33's, 29's, and 70's in service... that's still quite a bit of trips per route in both directions to be accounted for..... If that's the case, you may as well leave 33's & 29's as is, instead of truncating 33's to over there where the 69 ends, and having 29's run to where the truncated 33 will end up terminating...... You're actually making 33's less useful than what the MTA plans on ending up doing w/ the 33.....

Well I see the loves to mess with routes that are doing fine. I don't see the purpose of splitting the Q33 and having it stay out of LGA just like the Q23. Some people say hybrids can't do well on the highway but that point is invalid because the B103 and Q44 used the highway and nothing happened to the hybrids on those routes. If anything the Q33 should stay the way it is and have the Q23 go to LGA I see people with luggage bags on the Q23 and they transfer to the Q48.

[B35 via Church]

Well I see the loves to mess with routes that are doing fine. I don't see the purpose of splitting the Q33 and having it stay out of LGA just like the Q23

Because they do not care about the riding public.... Have this Q70 be a fail, there is no way in hell that it would be discontinued to have the Q33 (as we know it today) reverted..... They would simply tinker with the Q70 to try to force it to be up-to-par, while the Q33 would continue to fall to the wayside.... That's how the MTA operates.... Call it foolish pride or w/e you'd like.....

 

Consumers (well, end users, in this case) & Producers almost never see a business in the same light... It's no different here....

The notion of "public transportation" to the average bus/subway rider pales in comparison to how the MTA sees it.

 

- riding public: these are the services (buses/rails) that we need to get to/from wherever we're going from/to....

- the MTA: these are the services we provide for, the public... they are to be used as they are presented to them....

 

It's been said by quite a few ppl. in this transit community that the MTA does an atrocious job at listening to/hearing out, the riding public....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

And how many Q33 riders from 74th got I the airport (an estimate). Because Everytime the MTA says how many passengers it will improve their commutes, is really how many passengers it needs to break even by running it.

[B35 via Church]

And how many Q33 riders from 74th got I the airport (an estimate).

What?

 

Because Everytime the MTA says how many passengers it will improve their commutes, is really how many passengers it needs to break even by running it.

Lol... I'll admit I never looked at it like that.....

[bobtehpanda]

we can all blame DOT for this hare-brained idea. the q33 shouldve been left alone.

[Q90]

Q29 and Q33

 

With the new Q70 route due to start September 8, that service is likely to require 5 or 6 buses, and the Q33 will probably give up at least 3 buses to the Q70 on any given day.  As such, since the Q33 would likely only be serving the immediate neighborhood, I would propose terminating the trips that today end at 94 and 23 during the rush at 85 Street and 23 Avenue (last stop would actually be at 82 Street and 23 Avenue, across the street from the M60/Q48 stop) and have them use the BQE to deadhead back, saving possibly a bus or 2 in the rush hour. At other times, with fewer crowds because airport traffic is eliminated from the Q33 (very few riders travel to and from LGA from the neighborhood), I would propose cutting one bus per hour from the Q33.

 

That savings would then be redirected to the Q29. As it is, travel up 82 and 83 Streets to and from LaGuardia Depot is already deadhead distance. Instead, I would propose extending the Q29 to operate in service up the Q33 line and then terminate at the new Q33 terminus. This would give central Jackson Heights direct access to Queens Center Mall. This may require an additional bus or two, but it is not as if deadhead buses are traveling fast down 82 and 83 anyhow.

It's simpler to just merge them which is very likely to happen considering how useless that Q33 would be after it gets truncated.

[Astoria Line]

It's simpler to just merge them which is very likely to happen considering how useless that Q33 would be after it gets truncated.

 

That Q33 isn't useless. There are a lot of people who use it along 82nd and 83rd streets... trust me i've actually rode the route.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

What?

 

Lol... I'll admit I never looked at it like that.....

I meant How many people from 74th go to the airport. I was on my phone at that time, and my phone like's to correct things.

That Q33 isn't useless. There are a lot of people who use it along 82nd and 83rd streets... trust me i've actually rode the route.

Yeah. one Sunday like at 10 AM, it got completely packed by 82 street and Northern Blvd, and just about 6 of those riders came from LGA (this bus had no luggage racks). Mind you the Q33 runs every 15 minutes at this time. Also a few weeks ago I went and took the Q33 at 82 street and 37 Avenue, the bus was full to the gills. 

[NewFlyer 230]

As much I don't see it happening the might merge the Q29 and Q33. The new Q33 won't be useless but it will take away a direct route to LGA from the residents in the area. Now they will have to either go to 74th street or ride up to the M60. I wouldn't be suprised if the Q29/Q33 merge due to the amount of riders it will lose its similar to the Q45/Q47. Both routes had low ridership and combined together made the route better.

Edited August 4, 2013 by College Pt Man

[Q90]

As much I don't see it happening the might merge the Q29 and Q33. The new Q33 won't be useless but it will take away a direct route to LGA from the residents in the area. Now they will have to either go to 74th street or ride up to the M60. I wouldn't be suprised if the Q29/Q33 merge due to the amount of riders it will lose its similar to the Q45/Q47. Both routes had low ridership and combined together made the route better.

Considering what happened with the Q45/Q47, it's very likely actually so don't hold your breath.

That Q33 isn't useless. There are a lot of people who use it along 82nd and 83rd streets... trust me i've actually rode the route.

Yeah but many of them use it to LGA and the Q33 is being pulled out of there so it would lose that ridership.