Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Q43LTD]

It still has the M42 and M50...

 

The BxM11 is closer than the subway and faster and the riders to the Bronx Zoo are not in "small amounts".

Neither one of those routes serve the Javits Center. Maybe you meant Circle Line Pier? (Which is also served by the M12)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Neither one of those routes serve the Javits Center. Maybe you meant Circle Line Pier? (Which is also served by the M12)

I meant to say the M34 and M12, but the M42 and M50 are within walking distance as well.

[Fresh Pond]

I meant to say the M34 and M12, but the M42 and M50 are within walking distance as well.

But by that logic, the train is within walking distance to the zoo...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But by that logic, the train is within walking distance to the zoo...

That may be, but that's assuming that there isn't track work. The in the Bronx are notoriously slow. Edited January 11, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

Not enough transit riders go to the zoo. A lot of people go to the Javits Center as well, but the Javits Center doesn't have its own public or private shuttle despite the fact that it is located in the middle of nowhere with awful pedestrian connections, because it doesn't have the kind of consistent all-day demand that a school, university, employment area, or shopping mall would have.

 

The Bronx Zoo is so close to the subway that running a dedicated service to the subway a couple blocks away would be rather pointless. Where would you run a dedicated shuttle to? Fordham Plaza (which is already connected by bus)? Grand Central? Pelham Bay Park? It's not really possible because zoo patrons come from everywhere in very small amounts.

 

The X80 is different. Randall's literally only has the M35, and it's well known that concerts and events of that nature have a lot of people who need to leave at the same time, so it makes sense that we have an extremely special bus service for the Island. Zoos don't generate that kind of transit demand.

correction the javits center does have it's own shuttle in fact it has several shuttles to various parts of Manhattan during events they are usually ran by academy or other private entities.

[NewFlyer 230]

Excuse me but PLENTY of people use the BxM11 and spend $6.00 each way to and from the zoo with children. You have never used an express bus anyway so who are you to say what people would and wouldn't do? I have seen the people fill up the bus with my own eyes, so that debunks your statement.

I never said nobody took the BxM11. I said nobody is taking it to go to the Bronx Zoo. Yeah I've not taken express routes but why would I? I can get to Manhattan, Brooklyn or the Bronx only spending $2.50. A lot of people already know that and that's why they want to take the subway. You seem to hate the subway I don't know why but it's better than being stuck in traffic on the BXM1 and BxM2

[Via Garibaldi 8]

correction the javits center does have it's own shuttle in fact it has several shuttles to various parts of Manhattan during events they are usually ran by academy or other private entities.

  Thay makes sense. I have attended the auto show at the Javits Center and that draws a ton of people.

I never said nobody took the BxM11. I said nobody is taking it to go to the Bronx Zoo. Yeah I've not taken express routes but why would I? I can get to Manhattan, Brooklyn or the Bronx only spending $2.50. A lot of people already know that and that's why they want to take the subway. You seem to hate the subway I don't know why but it's better than being stuck in traffic on the BXM1 and BxM2

Your assumption is inaccurate to say the least. Plenty or people use the BxM11 to go to the zoo.... Ad for me, my neighborhood doesn't have a subway so it makes sense that I use the express buses. There is only traffic during rush hour, otherwise it's fine.

[NewFlyer 230]

That makes sense. I have attended the auto show at the Javits Center and that draws a ton of people.Your assumption is accurate to say the least. Plenty of people use the BxM11 to go to the zoo.... As for me, my neighborhood doesn't have a subway so it makes sense that I use the express buses. There is only traffic during rush hour, otherwise it's fine.

Doesn't the bottom of Riverdale have the even though its quite a walk?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Doesn't the bottom of Riverdale have the even though its quite a walk?

The walk is pretty long, and not only that, but the terrain is so uneven and hilly (just look at Riverdale Avenue between 231 and 236 as an example. One section is so high up, the other one is very low and on a hill (in addition). Most of the streets branching out also are upward on a hill (and then come back down before getting to the Henry Hudson). Riverdale Avenue residents also prefer the BxM1/BxM2 because they come as frequent as the local routes, and is more beneficial to them than the (because let's face it: I don't blame them one bit. Who wants to lag all the way to Manhattan, making every damn stop, while the express bus gets to the CBD faster. Even if you change at 96, the ride itself is very long. The is also very crowded, and that's also another problem). 

 

I'd go further to say that about half the ridership (or even more) from Marble Hill and on, are not being used by the Bronx residents in Riverdale and Kingsbridge, but more from the outerlying areas (Westchester, west of the Reservoir, and whatever other areas those people come from). The topography makes it really difficult for one to want to opt to take the subway.

 

Another example is Forest Hills: A good majority utilize the LIRR in the off peak hour because the fare is almost that of the express, and it gets them to the CBD even faster than the (I don't even consider the QM4 a Forest Hills bus, tbh, most of that ridership went to the QM12, and when those off peak trips died, so did the riders. Most QM4 riders who utilize it off peak hours take it past the Van Wyck.

Edited January 13, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[NewFlyer 230]

A lot of express routes in Queens don't do as well because their local counterpart is better. The Q64 runs on three minute headways with two buses running back to back because one bus from 164st gets crowded once it gets to Kissena Blvd. The second one starts at Parsons Blvd the previous stop and that one helps the first bus. The QM4 suffers because of it's infrequent headways running anywhere between 5-20 minutes.

The QM18 has a similar problem which is why nobody really uses it except for Kew Garden residents and some from Richmond Hills and Ozone Park.

The QM1-QM8 and QM20 excluding the QM4 run fairly well because they run often enough for people to use them especially the QM2/QM20 in Bay side and Whitestone where those routes run by itself for a duration of it's route.

 

Your routes are set up perfectly. You have the BxM1 and BxM2 which combined come fast and there is no direct subway connection in Riverdale. The Bx7 and Bx10 is no competition for the BxM1 and BxM2 because they run to the subway further down its route which the express would have beaten it. If the QM4 ran on let's say five minute headways and the Q64 was cut back to five minute headways there may be a boost on the QM4 because its former riders will consider using it again.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The QM4 used to have 20-30 minute headways to Manhattan from 9 AM-6 PM in the reverse peak direction/ middays. Service was not used to that extent, so all service on the :30 from 164, from 9:30 AM to 5:30 PM to Manhattan was eliminated. 

[NewFlyer 230]

The Q64 still ran every 15 minutes. I noticed when it comes to MTA Bus the MTA can only add service but not get rid of anything. The only exceptions was the Q89, Q22A,QM22 and QM23 because there was no gain or potential for those routes. The Q10A was pretty much changed to the Q10 LTD and it served terminal 5 instead of all of them. The NYCDOT wanted to get rid of the Q21 and Q34 because they duplicated other routes. Now under the MTA and funded by the city that won't happen. So as much as the QM4 is runner too much the MTA is not going to strip it down to a rush hour only which it really should have.

Edited January 13, 2015 by NewFlyer 230

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The Q64 still ran every 15 minutes. I noticed when it comes to MTA Bus the MTA can only add service but not get rid of anything. The only exceptions was the Q89, Q22A,QM22 and QM23 because there was no gain or potential for those routes. The Q10A was pretty much changed to the Q10 LTD and it served terminal 5 instead of all of them. The NYCDOT wanted to get rid of the Q21 and Q34 because they duplicated other routes. Now under the MTA and funded by the city that won't happen. So as much as the QM4 is runner too much the MTA is not going to strip it down to a rush hour only which it really should have.

I don't agree with it being a rush hour only route, but I don't agree with the current service levels given to that route (moreso to Manhattan in the PM, don't agree with the 11:00 PM being the last bus to Manhattan, when the X27/37's & X28/38's , which get SIGNIFICANTLY more ridership, end at 4:50 PM/5:00 pm (respectively) towards Manhattan. If anything, the MTA will probably match the running span to that of the 27/28 somewhere in the future more or less). 

 

On weekends, you can get away with running service later (until like 8/9 PM to Manhattan) because ridership is more spread out (and doesn't decrease at such a drastic rate), however those few trips will be empty or with little passengers. However weekend QM4 ridership is a seperate issue altogether. Genereally, there's more late PM ridership on the expresses on weekends (well of the high-ridership lines). For some it may not be very different to the corresponding weekday trip. However, the way MTA Bus ran their express service on weekends is something else, because many of them were severely cut (just look at the BM1-3, the last trips used to leave at 10:30-10:40 PM, now at 3:30 PM to 4:00 PM to Manhattan. Service to Brooklyn wasn't cut so much compared to Manhattan).

 

I feel NYCT handles it better, with their midday express buses, because MTA Bus runs in excess, and then cuts a significant amount within months, or gradually over a period of years, instead of just cutting the few "porker" trips. NYCT actually checks, and adds or diminishes service when it feels needed. When was the last time you heard of MTA Bus adding express service post 2010 during off peak hours, or NYCT cutting service on their off peak expresses (within that same time frame). 

Edited January 13, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[NewFlyer 230]

The BM expresses were cut down but that service was added to a few higher used routes like the QM5,and BxM1.

 

I find that the MTA doesn't care about getting rid of routes and it seems that they are only allowed to add or alter service. Everyone knows that the Q21 was on it's way to being cut back in 2005 but the takeover came too soon and the MTA extended it in 2008 which saved the route for a while. The Q34 also had a similar issue and still does. The Q34 bunches 70% of the time with the Q25 during the noon time after the AM rush and before the PM. During rush hours either it gets crushed because the Q25 is bunched up or its empty because it runs after the Q25.I was more in favor of cutting the route which the MTA won't do with that the Q21 or cutting back service on the QM4 because they don't pay of the route it self and just could simply keep things the way they are or add service. I hoped the MTA would extend that route to possibly Francis Lewis Blvd or even to bayside with the Q28 to give the Q34 more of a purpose and cut it back to Flushing.

I know things will change once the MTA has full ownership and responsibility over the ex PBL routes.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1.The BM expresses were cut down but that service was added to a few higher used routes like the QM5,and BxM1.

 

2. I find that the MTA doesn't care about getting rid of routes and it seems that they are only allowed to add or alter service. Everyone knows that the Q21 was on it's way to being cut back in 2005 but the takeover came too soon and the MTA extended it in 2008 which saved the route for a while. The Q34 also had a similar issue and still does.

 

3. The Q34 bunches 70% of the time with the Q25 during the noon time after the AM rush and before the PM. During rush hours either it gets crushed because the Q25 is bunched up or its empty because it runs after the Q25.I was more in favor of cutting the route which the MTA won't do with that the Q21 or cutting back service on the QM4 because they don't pay of the route it self and just could simply keep things the way they are or add service. I hoped the MTA would extend that route to possibly Francis Lewis Blvd or even to bayside with the Q28 to give the Q34 more of a purpose and cut it back to Flushing.

I know things will change once the MTA has full ownership and responsibility over the ex PBL routes.

1. Yeah, but to PEAK service, not off peak service. 

 

2.The current Q11/21 service should be maintained, unless local ridership just severely goes down:

 

The way it's schedule is not the best, but whatever

 

For example, here's how I think they should schedule it (rush hour, midday service would run without the short-turns in between):

 

From Hoffman

00:00 Q21, 00:08 Q11 Short-turn, 00:15 Q11 99 Street, 00:22 Q11 Short-turn, 00:30 Q21, 00:38 Q11 Short-turn 00:45 Q11 104 Street, 00:52 Q11 Short turn, Instead of those 5-10 minute headways, there's a consistent 8 minute headway. During the midday hours, only the buses running past pitkin would run, and also the buses northbound would be evenly spaced.

 

3. I do think that the Q34 sould be left out of the Kissena ordeal, but rush hours it should still run on Kissena. Run it as a feeder between Whitestone and Flushing, with the exception of Rush hours, where it would run to Jamaica. Midday service runs every 20 minutes, evening every 30 minute minutes like it does.

 

To Flushing from Jamaica: 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM (every 20 minutes until 4:00 PM, every 15 minutes from there on until through service starts at 5:16 PM, then 10 minute headways on the 34 segment north).

To Whitestone from Jamaica: 6:15 AM- 8:55 AM & 4:30 PM to 7:22 PM

To Jamaica from Whitestone: 5:20 AM- 7:40 AM & 3:20 PM to 6:24 PM

To Flushing from Whitestone: 5:00 AM, 7:50- 4:15 PM (EVERY 10 MIN until 9:00 AM, every 20 minutes until 3:40 PM, every 15 minutes from there on until the Jamaica service starts)

Edited January 13, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Q43LTD]

Kind of funny the Q34 is the only local Bus route that runs 5 days a week...

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Kind of funny the Q34 is the only local Bus route that runs 5 days a week...

the B103 did at one time, but it has a lot higher ridership than the Q34

[Q43LTD]

the B103 did at one time, but it has a lot higher ridership than the Q34

That was during the PBL days

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Doesn't the bottom of Riverdale have the even though its quite a walk?

If you live up in the hills like I do, the train is a schlepp. I have a closer walk to the Metro-North stations if anything, which are also a pain walking back from due to the very steep winding hills on Independence Avenue or along 254th street, depending on which Metro-North station I use (the Spuyten Duyvil and Riverdale Metro-North stations are both right along the water, but require you to descend from very steep hills to reach them). To the subway, it is a good 15 - 20 minutes walking from my apartment, assuming I use shortcuts through the Manhattan College campus, 20 - 25 minutes otherwise... It is absolutely BRUTAL walking FROM the train if you are not in shape as I am, as that 15 - 20 minute walk is ALL uphill (and steep hills at that which meander).  The other option is to get off at 238th and walk up a good 60 or so stairs to reach Riverdale from Kingsbridge, which is also not fun in the winter or summer.  I have done the walk uphill from 242nd a few times and while it is a great exercise, even for myself, it is not something that I would want to entertain during the brutal summer or winter months.  

 

Riverdale has one of the highest (if not the highest elevations in NYC), with areas being separating by rolling hills and an array of steep hills and slopes.  One has to be very strategic when using public transportation here as a result, and local bus to the train is a schlepp, especially for people who need the East Side, as there are too many transfers required after taking the local bus and the train.

 

The walk is pretty long, and not only that, but the terrain is so uneven and hilly (just look at Riverdale Avenue between 231 and 236 as an example. One section is so high up, the other one is very low and on a hill (in addition). Most of the streets branching out also are upward on a hill (and then come back down before getting to the Henry Hudson). Riverdale Avenue residents also prefer the BxM1/BxM2 because they come as frequent as the local routes, and is more beneficial to them than the (because let's face it: I don't blame them one bit. Who wants to lag all the way to Manhattan, making every damn stop, while the express bus gets to the CBD faster. Even if you change at 96, the ride itself is very long. The is also very crowded, and that's also another problem). 

 

I'd go further to say that about half the ridership (or even more) from Marble Hill and on, are not being used by residents in Riverdale and Bronx residents in Kingsbridge, but more from the outerlying areas (Westchester, west of the Reservoir, and whatever other areas those people come from). The topography makes it really difficult for one to want to opt to take the subway.

Anyone using the subway in Riverdale usually take the local buses, and even then it's very strategic in terms of which stops they use.  The goal is to avoid the hills where possible.  For example, I live on a hill so I try to get the express bus at stops where I don't have to do too much walking up hill, but the hills in any event are unavoidable.  It's really a question of which hills are the worst and how long I'm willing to walk to get to the express bus.  At night luckily I can walk down hill for just about the entire time, depending on which way I walk.  

 

I had the same situation on Staten Island, as most of the island is hilly too, but the difference is that RIverdale's hills are much are noticeable, as they tend to be much steeper, so you get a real workout unless you're used to it.  I see plenty of old folks literally taking breaks as they try to get up the street steps or the hills.  I'm used to it now, but when I first moved here I didn't know how I would ever manage on a daily basis with the street steps and steep hills.  The express buses for that reason are a must, as are the shuttle buses.  Without them it would make commuting on a daily basis very difficult and tiring. 

 

A lot of express routes in Queens don't do as well because their local counterpart is better. Your routes are set up perfectly. You have the BxM1 and BxM2 which combined come fast and there is no direct subway connection in Riverdale. The Bx7 and Bx10 is no competition for the BxM1 and BxM2 because they run to the subway further down its route which the express would have beaten it. If the QM4 ran on let's say five minute headways and the Q64 was cut back to five minute headways there may be a boost on the QM4 because its former riders will consider using it again.

Yes, the BxM1 and BxM2 are set up to run off of each other, which generally means headways of 15 minutes or less similar to the headways of subways.  Aside from the steep topography, there are a lot of condos and co-ops here where the express buses stop right outside their doors, which makes it VERY convenient for residents as opposed to taking the local buses, especially the elderly folks.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

The walk is pretty long, and not only that, but the terrain is so uneven and hilly (just look at Riverdale Avenue between 231 and 236 as an example. One section is so high up, the other one is very low and on a hill (in addition). Most of the streets branching out also are upward on a hill (and then come back down before getting to the Henry Hudson). Riverdale Avenue residents also prefer the BxM1/BxM2 because they come as frequent as the local routes, and is more beneficial to them than the (because let's face it: I don't blame them one bit. Who wants to lag all the way to Manhattan, making every damn stop, while the express bus gets to the CBD faster. Even if you change at 96, the ride itself is very long. The is also very crowded, and that's also another problem).

 

I'd go further to say that about half the ridership (or even more) from Marble Hill and on, are not being used by the Bronx residents in Riverdale and Kingsbridge, but more from the outerlying areas (Westchester, west of the Reservoir, and whatever other areas those people come from). The topography makes it really difficult for one to want to opt to take the subway.

 

Another example is Forest Hills: A good majority utilize the LIRR in the off peak hour because the fare is almost that of the express, and it gets them to the CBD even faster than the (I don't even consider the QM4 a Forest Hills bus, tbh, most of that ridership went to the QM12, and when those off peak trips died, so did the riders. Most QM4 riders who utilize it off peak hours take it past the Van Wyck.

yup this is the reasoning behind one of my suggestions.

[Q43LTD]

This is regards to the stop location at the Sutphin Blvd/Archer Av area. Have the Q6, 9 and 40 stop at Sutphin and 91. The Q8, 41 and 60 (to 109 only) stop at Suthpin between 91 and Archer. The Q60 short turning at Jamaica LIRR stop at the Q20/44 stop in front of Duane Reade. 

[qjtransitmaster]

This is regards to the stop location at the Sutphin Blvd/Archer Av area. Have the Q6, 9 and 40 stop at Sutphin and 91. The Q8, 41 and 60 (to 109 only) stop at Suthpin between 91 and Archer. The Q60 short turning at Jamaica LIRR stop at the Q20/44 stop in front of Duane Reade.

makes sense

[B35 via Church]

You could have the Rosedale Express' first stop on Linden or on Merrick (@ Linden Blvd).

However, for the last option the Rochdale bus would have to make all stops.

 

A setup like that could work in the PM

 

I have several set-ups, I don't know, of those which you prefer the most, so here's the set-ups

 

Option 1:

X63A/QM21: ALL current X63 stops until Guy R Brewer

X63 (Rosedale Express): Non-stop until 170 Street

 

Option 2:

X63A/QM21: ALL current X63 stops until Guy R Brewer

X63: "Limited-stop" - stopping at Union Tpke, Sutphin, and 170 Street, then current X63 stops afterward

 

Option 3 (Your Proposal):

X63: All current stops (+ QM21 stops on Linden)

X63A/QM21 (Rochdale Express): Non-stop from Hoover to Guy R Brewer

 

Option 4 (My Suggestion):

X63: All current stops; select peak bus

X63 (Rosedale Express): Non-stop until 170 Street; select peak bus

QM21 (Rochdale Express): Non-stop from Hoover to Guy R Brewer

 

Option 5 (Alternative Suggestion): 

X63: All current stops; Midday and select peak buses.....

X63 (Rosedale Express): Non-stop until 170 Street; select peak bus (where a QM21 bus is right behind it or near it as scheduled)

QM21: ALL QM21/X63 stops until Guy R Brewer

 

** spoiler = scheduling suggestions **

** altered your post for consistency/clarity purposes **

 

Never got around to this...

But in any event, I'll do it this way:

 

Option 1: I can't side with having all x63's running straight to Merrick (well, 170th) to have ridership siphoned from the x63 onto the QM21.... This would involve scheduling & headway alterations to the QM21 I don't think energy should be wasted on...

 

Also, for the ppl. that need the QB stops, they would likely seek x64's & x68's anyway (service is more consistent) - Even if the QM21 were to serve those stops...

 

* Furthermore, if x63's would travel straight to 170th from Manhattan, they may as well parallel the x64 to Merrick, then run em straight down merrick to do the rest of the x63 route (the first stop would then be at Linden, on Merrick... I think it's a CVS on that corner).... This is what I think any x63 "Rosedale express" of sorts should do, instead of putting up with (as much of) the Van Wyck, and all of Linden blvd if buses wouldn't make any stops along it....

 

Option 2:  As far as the x63 is concerned, this is better than option 1 - for the sole reason that it would still make pickups on linden.... (although I think there should still be a stop at Van Wyck/Linden)

 

Option 3: Regarding the x63.... I actually didn't mention that, but I suppose the x63 could make that extra stop on 142nd/linden....

(the x63 & the QM21 already share a stop at sutphin/linden)

 

Option 4: So you agree that the QM21 should be a Rochdale express...

 

As far as the x63 though, you mention *select peak bus* for both the [x63 regular trips] & the [rosedale expresses].....

I guess what I'm asking here is, what would be "regular" x63 service?

 

Option 5:  Still have the Same question as above....

 

So the QM21 would be more of a supplement to the x63 to Brewer, and the x63 would have trips that'd [retain the current stop configuration], & those that'd [run straight to 170th]... Trying to speed up the commutes for those that are getting off the x63 on points past linden is great... But again, I happen to think trying to make the QM21 more useful at the expense of the x63 (having some trips run as "Rosedale expresses" & having some trips run like they currently do) is a lost cause....

 

To sum it up, I'd keep the QM21 around for not much else than for being an express route that serves Rochdale..... Not as a means for speeding up commutes for the Rosedale folks... You could do that without having the QM21 make all stops that the x63 does until brewer (where it obviously would turn off at)..... This is why I don't favor this option.

==========================================

 

 

To give an answer to what you're saying (aside from my own option, of course), I would favor Option 4 over Option 2... over Option 5... over Option1... The reason I'd favor Option 5 over Option 1 is because there would still be trips that would do the current x63 routing/stop configuration....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

** altered your post for consistency/clarity purposes **

 

Never got around to this...

But in any event, I'll do it this way:

 

Option 1: I can't side with having all x63's running straight to Merrick (well, 170th) to have ridership siphoned from the x63 onto the QM21.... This would involve scheduling & headway alterations to the QM21 I don't think energy should be wasted on...

 

Also, for the ppl. that need the QB stops, they would likely seek x64's & x68's anyway (service is more consistent) - Even if the QM21 were to serve those stops...

 

* Furthermore, if x63's would travel straight to 170th from Manhattan, they may as well parallel the x64 to Merrick, then run em straight down merrick to do the rest of the x63 route (the first stop would then be at Linden, on Merrick... I think it's a CVS on that corner).... This is what I think any x63 "Rosedale express" of sorts should do, instead of putting up with (as much of) the Van Wyck, and all of Linden blvd if buses wouldn't make any stops along it....

 

Option 2:  As far as the x63 is concerned, this is better than option 1 - for the sole reason that it would still make pickups on linden.... (although I think there should still be a stop at Van Wyck/Linden)

 

Option 3: Regarding the x63.... I actually didn't mention that, but I suppose the x63 could make that extra stop on 142nd/linden....

(the x63 & the QM21 already share a stop at sutphin/linden)

 

Option 4: So you agree that the QM21 should be a Rochdale express...

 

As far as the x63 though, you mention *select peak bus* for both the [x63 regular trips] & the [rosedale expresses].....

I guess what I'm asking here is, what would be "regular" x63 service?

 

Option 5:  Still have the Same question as above....

 

So the QM21 would be more of a supplement to the x63 to Brewer, and the x63 would have trips that'd [retain the current stop configuration], & those that'd [run straight to 170th]... Trying to speed up the commutes for those that are getting off the x63 on points past linden is great... But again, I happen to think trying to make the QM21 more useful at the expense of the x63 (having some trips run as "Rosedale expresses" & having some trips run like they currently do) is a lost cause....

 

To sum it up, I'd keep the QM21 around for not much else than for being an express route that serves Rochdale..... Not as a means for speeding up commutes for the Rosedale folks... You could do that without having the QM21 make all stops that the x63 does until brewer (where it obviously would turn off at)..... This is why I don't favor this option.

==========================================

 

 

To give an answer to what you're saying (aside from my own option, of course), I would favor Option 4 over Option 2... over Option 5... over Option1... The reason I'd favor Option 5 over Option 1 is because there would still be trips that would do the current x63 routing/stop configuration....

 

As for Option 4, I wouldn't mind having the 21 go straight to Guy R. Brewer/ linden (and do the Queens Blvd stops)

 

In essence, the X63 regular trips would be the ones which make all the current stops (in addition to the 142 stop , since the 21 would no longer serve it).

 

The Rosedale Express would just be added buses on top of the current schedule.

 

In relation to this, the MTA is suppose to add more PM X63 service (reduce the headways to 12 minutes). There would be 5 buses per hour instead of 4. Now, I would take those extra buses, and instead have them as the Rosedale Expresses (they would leave between 4:45 PM and 5:45 PM, spaced no bigger than 30 minutes, or they can be concentrated within 15 minute intervals during the 5 PM period). This way, Linden still retains all the X63 service it has, QM21s are sped up towards Rochdale, and there'd be a faster option for commuters going back to Rosedale .

 

If the ridership is there (which I'm not completely sure), what could've been done is the X63 Rosedale Express be even faster, it could've made all stops on 23 Street, Madison Avenue up to 33 Street, then non-stop to Van Wyck and Linden, then stopping at 170 street, then making all other stops, just like the QM2/5/20 SX trips). However, the difference in this is, that the local trips would originate at 40 Street/ Madison Avenue during this time period, since these SX trips would run during the height of the rush. That means anyone from 23 Street, and the lower Madison Area would have even faster service going to Queens. Once again, that is if there's enough ridership to warrant it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

As for Option 4, I wouldn't mind having the 21 go straight to Guy R. Brewer/ linden (and do the Queens Blvd stops)

 

In essence, the X63 regular trips would be the ones which make all the current stops (in addition to the 142 stop , since the 21 would no longer serve it).

 

The Rosedale Express would just be added buses on top of the current schedule.

 

So if I'm getting this right, your suggestion (Option 4) would have:

 

* x63's that would have stops along Linden at Van Wyck, Sutphin, Brewer, and 170th (i.e., the current bus stop configuration)

* x63's that would have stops along Linden at Van Wyck, 142nd, Sutphin, Brewer, and 170th

* x63's that would only have the one stop along Linden at 170th (which are the dubbed Rosedale expresses)

 

...with the ones in brick red you denoted prior as having select peak trips doing them.

 

.....In relation to this, the MTA is suppose to add more PM X63 service (reduce the headways to 12 minutes). There would be 5 buses per hour instead of 4. Now, I would take those extra buses, and instead have them as the Rosedale Expresses (they would leave between 4:45 PM and 5:45 PM, spaced no bigger than 30 minutes, or they can be concentrated within 15 minute intervals during the 5 PM period). This way, Linden still retains all the X63 service it has, QM21s are sped up towards Rochdale, and there'd be a faster option for commuters going back to Rosedale .

 

 

If the ridership is there (which I'm not completely sure), what could've been done is the X63 Rosedale Express be even faster, it could've made all stops on 23 Street, Madison Avenue up to 33 Street, then non-stop to Van Wyck and Linden, then stopping at 170 street, then making all other stops, just like the QM2/5/20 SX trips). However, the difference in this is, that the local trips would originate at 40 Street/ Madison Avenue during this time period, since these SX trips would run during the height of the rush. That means anyone from 23 Street, and the lower Madison Area would have even faster service going to Queens. Once again, that is if there's enough ridership to warrant it.

That's one out of the two reasons why I would side with your suggestion, over the other 3 neither of us suggested (options 1, 2, and 5)... Of course, the MTA would have to determine which 1 out of every 5 BPH would run straight to 170th (for discussion's sake), and which of the other 4 BPH would maintain doing the current x63 configuration.....

 

I think you already realize this, but where we differ is even having separate x63 trips do different things (not sure how else to put it)... I think the x63 rosedale buses should have one service pattern, and the rochdale buses should have that one pattern (whether the rochdale expresses are named x63a's or QM21's makes no difference to me... However, the MTA would likely keep it as the "QM21" because the 'x' notation aren't used for non NYCT depots (like a Baisley Park).... I say that the x63 should have one service pattern, for the main reason that Linden Blvd doesn't bog down the x63 (the Van Wyck portion of the route does that more than anything)....

 

But if the MTA were to try their hand at a Rosedale Express of sorts, the QM21 should be "morphed" into a straight Rochdale express (that we've discussed already), not being more of a supplement to the x63 along Linden (as presented with that 5th option).... That would call for more QM21 service, and TBH, a bit of a reduction in overall x63 service... Which to me isn't worth it.... The only analogy I can think of at the moment, is how the Q11 was worsened to have the Q21 not face extinction (that also had to do w/ the advent of the Woodhaven LTD's, but still).....

 

^^ fitting how both those route numbers are "21" right... That part of the analogy was totally unintentional.

 

As far as usage on the Manhattan end on the x63, I'd say there's more riders north & east of 40th st (outbound)/37th (inbound), than there are south & east of 40th/37th (respectively).... That seems to be the trend for all the QV expresses for some reason..... I honestly can't discern which of the 3 routes are the closest to being balanced in that regard.... Well, guess I can say though that the x64 is the least balanced of the 3... I've been on Queens bound x64's on several occasions that didn't start heavily picking up (for express bus standards, you know what I mean) until we hit that stop around 50th (I think it's either 49th or 48th)..... The x64 is hurting anyway, but that's neither here nor there.... Nowadays, I tend to see more riders on 63's & 68's (especially) than anything....