Nassau Inter County Goof's

[Burrstone]

I thought we could have a thread where you could post a NICE goof that you noticed.

 

Post the goof, what's wrong with it, and the correction.

 

The goof I noticed is the same one the had and proves NICE didn't bother looking at a map when they made their new schedules (kind of funny because they have a google map above the new time table showing the route).

 

Like the NICE lists the n19 stopping and time point for Amityville at Broadway and Montauk Highway. While Montauk Highway runs through Suffolk and Merrick Rd runs through Nassau. Merrick Rd still runs through Amityville, I thought Merrick Rd ran until about Ocean Ave, but google map shows it running all the way through Amityville. To Check I looked up the address of Stop & Shop (in Amityville, close to the Copiague border) the store lists their address as being on Merrick Rd.

[Amtrak7]

One obvious and one not so much:

 

-The N40/41 PDF is missing a page

-The N78/79 schedule makes no distinction between which buses run via the industrial parks to/from Newton Rd and which buses just jump straight across on Old Country Rd.

[VWM]

there are blank runs on most scheduals

[Burrstone]

What do you mean by blank runs?

[Amtrak7]

What do you mean by blank runs?

 

 

Rows without any times. They're there for formatting purposes.

 

Another error: look at the AM westbound N78. They're not sorted correctly with the N79 times!

[FamousNYLover]

Sunday Evening Trips on N20 out of Flushing did not time with N27 according to schedule. They need to gave N20/N21 folks break and they need to coordinate with N27 better.

[N6 Limited]

Sunday Evening Trips on N20 out of Flushing did not time with N27 according to schedule. They need to gave N20/N21 folks break and they need to coordinate with N27 better.

 

Wasn't the N21 hourly on Sundays? According to the schedule, the hourly buses to Hicksville are timed to meet with the N27.

[Haitiank]

Wasn't the N21 hourly on Sundays? According to the schedule, the hourly buses to Hicksville are timed to meet with the N27.

 

 

The N21 has been discontinued on Sat and Sun.

[Haitiank]

The biggest goof Veolia's NICE has made was eliminating the N6 limited which used to make all the time points stops along with Terrace and hempstead tpke, Springfield Blvd and Hillisde ave and Homelawn/168th st. The replaced it with the N6X which makes only 3 stops; Hempstead tpke and Terrace, Hempstead tpke and Westminster and 179th st Subway making the local N6's packed more than usual.

[N6 Limited]

The N21 has been discontinued on Sat and Sun.

 

I know, I was saying that only N20s's to Hicksville (On Sundays anyway) are timed to meet the N27, not the N20's to CW Post.

The biggest goof Veolia's NICE has made was eliminating the N6 limited which used to make all the time points stops along with Terrace and hempstead tpke, Springfield Blvd and Hillisde ave and Homelawn/168th st. The replaced it with the N6X which makes only 3 stops; Hempstead tpke and Terrace, Hempstead tpke and Westminster and 179th st Subway making the local N6's packed more than usual.

 

Yep the Locals are more packed and the Expresses are empty.

[checkmatechamp13]

I know, I was saying that only N20s's to Hicksville (On Sundays anyway) are timed to meet the N27, not the N20's to CW Post.

Yep the Locals are more packed and the Expresses are empty.

 

 

Hopefully this isn't permenant, and people eventually do figure out how fast the N6X buses are. I could still see an uneven load on the locals and expresses, though. They should really add another stop or two.

[N6 Limited]

Hopefully this isn't permenant, and people eventually do figure out how fast the N6X buses are. I could still see an uneven load on the locals and expresses, though. They should really add another stop or two.

 

So the loads are starting to balance out as people realize what the Express does? I think they should at least add Franklin Ave as a stop. At least Locustwood Blvd and Elmont Road former Limited users to/from Queens can still use the N1 which has available seats.

[checkmatechamp13]

So the loads are starting to balance out as people realize what the Express does? I think they should at least add Franklin Ave as a stop. At least Locustwood Blvd and Elmont Road former Limited users to/from Queens can still use the N1 which has available seats.

 

 

Is Franklin Avenue your home stop? LOL. Just kidding.

 

In any case, I was opposed to that from day 1. I could see the logic in starting the limiteds from 179th Street, but they should really convert at least a few of the expresses back to limiteds. I think this was done solely as a cost-saving move (shorter runtime, but then again, the locals spend more time loading because they're more crowded, so how much do they really save?)

 

So what do you think of my original plan? 15 minutes for each (local, limited, and express, but the limited has a couple of extra stops). Do you think at least a decent load comes from Hempstead to justify the express runs, or they should just go back to the old limited pattern completely?

[N6 Limited]

Is Franklin Avenue your home stop? LOL. Just kidding.

 

In any case, I was opposed to that from day 1. I could see the logic in starting the limiteds from 179th Street, but they should really convert at least a few of the expresses back to limiteds. I think this was done solely as a cost-saving move (shorter runtime, but then again, the locals spend more time loading because they're more crowded, so how much do they really save?)

 

So what do you think of my original plan? 15 minutes for each (local, limited, and express, but the limited has a couple of extra stops). Do you think at least a decent load comes from Hempstead to justify the express runs, or they should just go back to the old limited pattern completely?

 

 

Haha nope, Franklin Ave isn't my home stop but I know that a lot of riders transfer to and from the N25.

 

I like your idea with the 15 mins for each, but perhaps have the Express at every 20 mins. The loads from Hempstead doesn't justify an express on its own. Many riders going to the subway are cumulative passenger loads throughout Nassau and vice versa. So, either there needs to be more stops (which would essentially be the Limited) or they need to revert back to the limited. They could run the limited to 179th street and try that out.

[Amtrak7]

I think the best idea here is to remove Westminster and add Front, Franklin, and Covert for transfers. Rename it back to the n6L.

[Amtrak7]

http://nicebus.com/Passenger_Information/Service_Alerts/index.html

 

They're adding back Covert/Meacham...

[N6 Limited]

Hmm why just Covert/Meacham? Is that stop honestly that busy as compared to Franklin Ave? Perhaps choosing Meacham first is also a way to get more riders on the N2/N8. Riders going between Hempstead and Elmont won't be able to catch the express to/from Elmont Road (N1), so they could use the N2/N8 loop to get over to Elmont Road/Dutch Broadway or Hempstead Turnpike anyway.

 

I can understand omitting Locustwood Blvd & Elmont Road, because they have the N1 during peak times. They probably noticed the N1's filling up because of the long lines at 169th street for the N6 Local.

 

Maybe they'll add Meacham Ave and see how it goes next week, and if it's still light, they'll add another stop. (Prob Franklin Ave)

 

They may avoid any additional Queens stops because that will bog down the line, NYC Traffic Signals are already bogging down all routes that go into Queens. They may also avoid Elmont Road and Locustwood Blvd, because as I already mentioned they have the N1 helping out.

[Amtrak7]

The problem with the way Veolia did their counts (traffic checkers recording ons and offs) doesn't take into account origin-destination pairs. Just because the bus may be full leaving Jamaica and full pulling into HTC doesn't necessarily mean that even half the load traveled the whole way.

[N6 Limited]

The problem with the way Veolia did their counts (traffic checkers recording ons and offs) doesn't take into account origin-destination pairs. Just because the bus may be full leaving Jamaica and full pulling into HTC doesn't necessarily mean that even half the load traveled the whole way.

 

Exactly, I was thinking that's how they came up with the N6 Express. Most trips are actually overlapping. Trips may begin and end full, but constant turnover of passengers keeps the bus full throughout the trip and there is actually a different load getting off at the Hempstead Bus Terminal or Subway.

 

From my observations as a passenger, most trips are between Jamaica and Elmont & Elmont and Hempstead. And since the Express bypassed Elmont, the bus was EMPTY. lol

[Amtrak7]

Exactly, I was thinking that's how they came up with the N6 Express. Most trips are actually overlapping. Trips may begin and end full, but constant turnover of passengers keeps the bus full throughout the trip and there is actually a different load getting off at the Hempstead Bus Terminal or Subway.

 

From my observations as a passenger, most trips are between Jamaica and Elmont & Elmont and Hempstead. And since the Express bypassed Elmont, the bus was EMPTY. lol

 

 

So do you believe that the new Covert stop will significantly improve utilization of the n6x?

[N6 Limited]

So do y ou believe that the new Covert stop will significantly improve utilization of the n6x?

 

Nope, it will help though.Perhaps people will use it and walk further, or take the N2/N8 instead of the N1, or use the Express and Local, like the subway, Express to Meacham, then next Local if they can fit on.

 

The Limited stopped at all the transfer points A lot of people get on and off at Springfield Blvd and New Hyde Park Road/Franklin Ave especially. I hear they have tons of traffic checkers out counting boardings/alightings and surveying passengers about the N6x.

 

Here's a quick general breakdown of ridership from observation.

Eastbound:

Jamaica Bus terminal - Some riders boarding

169th street - Heavy Boarding (PM especially)

179th street - Left overs boarding

Francis Lewis Blvd & Hillside Ave - Sometimes riders boarding

Springfield Blvd- Good amount of passengers boarding

Locustwood Blvd - Am: more boarding than alighting;. Pm: the opposite

Elmont Road: Am: Heavy Boarding (from N1): Some Alighting.

Meacham Ave, some passenger exchange, more more alighting PM

New Hyde Park Road /Franklin Ave. - Good Exchange, (N25)

Westminster Road - Some alighting

Hilton Ave - Moderate Alighting (More N15,N31,N32 riders may actually use this stop to transfer, over Westminster Rd)

Terminal - Everyone Else

 

Westbound:

Hempstead Bus Terminal: Moderate to heavy loading

Terrace Ave - Several people Boarding

Westminster Road - Varies, A few people boarding here and there

Franklin Ave - Moderate passenger exchange. (N25)

Meacham Ave - Some alighting, some boarding, more boarding AM

Elmont Road - AM: moderate exchange, PM Moderate-good alighting(To N1), less moderate boarding.

Locustwood Blvd - AM Moderate Boarding; PM some alighting.

Springfield Blvd, - Moderate Alighting

Francis Lewis and Hillside - Some alighting

179th street - Heavy Alighting

169th street - light alighting

165th street Bus Terminal - Left overs.

 

Generic terms, but you get the point.

[checkmatechamp13]

Nope, it will help though.Perhaps people will use it and walk further, or take the N2/N8 instead of the N1, or use the Express and Local, like the subway, Express to Meacham, then next Local if they can fit on.

 

The Limited stopped at all the transfer points A lot of people get on and off at Springfield Blvd and New Hyde Park Road/Franklin Ave especially. I hear they have tons of traffic checkers out counting boardings/alightings and surveying passengers about the N6x.

 

Here's a quick general breakdown of ridership from observation.

 

Eastbound:

179th street - Left overs boarding

Springfield Blvd- Good amount of passengers boarding

Elmont Road: Am: Heavy Boarding (from N1): Some Alighting.

Meacham Ave, some passenger exchange, more more alighting PM

New Hyde Park Road /Franklin Ave. - Good Exchange, (N25)

 

Westbound:

Franklin Ave - Moderate passenger exchange. (N25)

Meacham Ave - Some alighting, some boarding, more boarding AM

Elmont Road - AM: moderate exchange, PM Moderate-good alighting(To N1), less moderate boarding.

Springfield Blvd, - Moderate Alighting

179th street - Heavy Alighting

 

Generic terms, but you get the point.

 

 

The thing that I noticed about bus riders is that they seem to be less willing to transfer from a local to a limited than subway riders, but I guess if the ride is significantly faster, they'll do so. (Maybe they should make an additional transfer, so riders can do subway->N6X->N6)

 

In any case, I think those stops listed above (plus the Hempstead stops of course) should be the stops for the limited/express.

[james1498]

I am a former Limited rider who used the Express all last week, and agree that the loads were light (especially compared to the former Limited). I don't believe it will be a failure but I am glad that NICE is quick on its feet as they realized that Elmont needs to be served by an Express stop. I have always seen a lot of people get on/off at Meacham with the Limited and figured it to be the busiest of the the 3 Elmont Limited stops. I'd say Elmont Road is a close 2nd. As N6L pointed out, a lot of Hempstead bound riders get on at the Limited stops (especially Franklin Ave and the Elmont stops).

 

In addition to what was mentioned before, about Elmont being served by other buses to/from Jamaica, those riders are also the closest to Jamaica so it makes sense that NICE would want those riders to use the local more but I saw some locals crushloaded while expresses were light (not super light, but light). We must give the Express time to build new ridership and make sure all former Limited riders are utilizing the Express. I give NICE credit, all last week they had a rep at 179th st and even with the n6x signs, he was telling people lined up at the n6 to get on the Express line since it is further back (what is nice about 179th is there is enough space to separate the n6 and n6x whereas at 169th the n6l and n6 were part of the same line).

 

I assume the reason 169th as an express stop isn't used is because there is more space at 179th. It is going to take some time for folks to adjust their commuting patterns and while NICE has done a good job at communicating changes, people are creatures of habit.

 

During peak hour traffic, the Limited would sometimes take close to an hour to Hempstead, which is why so many folks just end up taking the LIRR. I rode the LIRR frequently but its those riders who would benefit from the new express. It is a huge cost savings and while the ride is not as comfortable the express bus combined with the subway is doable. It truly does cut out 20 minutes to Hempstead and sometimes even more depending on how aggressive the driver is. I assume NICE is happy with this as they can squeeze more runs out.

 

Some of the drivers did not know that the n6x is supposed to stop at Fulton/Terrace.

 

As far as future modifications I think the Meacham Ave stop will boost Express ridership nicely. I never noticed a huge crowd getting on at Westminster or Franklin Ave heading to Jamaica but if we want each town to be served by an Express, I don't have a problem with adding back Franklin Ave. The further out stops should benefit more from the Express.

 

The 165st terminal also used to get a lot of Hempstead bound riders who would often walk from the E/J/Z trains at Jamaica.

 

I suspect in the future, the Express will look something like this.

 

165 st terminal

179th st (keep 169th off the express).

Meacham Ave

Franklin Ave

Westminster Road

Fulton/Terrace

Hempstead Terminal

 

Headways for the express could be every 12 minutes instead of 10 and the local would be every 8.

[Joel Up Front]

I really do question why they cut the Franklin Avenue stop from the n6X. I can understand people going straight to the from Hempstead but what about people waiting closer to Elmont?

[NY1635]

I really do question why they cut the Franklin Avenue stop from the n6X. I can understand people going straight to the from Hempstead but what about people waiting closer to Elmont?

 

 

Those people will have to wait for the N6 Local to take them to F Train.