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East New York

Stealth Mode: RTS Low Floor at ENY Depot??

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Fact of the day: The (MTA) briefly tested the RTS LF engineering bus out of East New York prior to the bus heading up to Altoona. MTS received positive feedback about the bus, and remains committed to delivering high floor express buses, and low floor transit buses in the very near future. Specs are now finalized for the high floor, and low floor preliminary specs are complete as well.

 

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The RTS Extreme, the RTS LF, the RTS-10, what ever you want to call it, it's an awesome bus. If RTS replaced RTS, then THAT would be awesome.

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I remember a thread about this a while ago, ENY, but you can remind me what the differences will be between the express and the local versions of the bus (except for the floor height difference, of course).

 

I'm very happy to see a new express bus that does not have all of those luggage compartments underneath the bus- they are a waste of space and make it harder for old people to board (since it makes the bus so high).

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I remember a thread about this a while ago, ENY, but you can remind me what the differences will be between the express and the local versions of the bus (except for the floor height difference, of course).

 

I'm very happy to see a new express bus that does not have all of those luggage compartments underneath the bus- they are a waste of space and make it harder for old people to board (since it makes the bus so high).

 

 

I believe the Low Floor will have a wide front door, and the express will have a normal sized front door...

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I remember a thread about this a while ago, ENY, but you can remind me what the differences will be between the express and the local versions of the bus (except for the floor height difference, of course).

 

I'm very happy to see a new express bus that does not have all of those luggage compartments underneath the bus- they are a waste of space and make it harder for old people to board (since it makes the bus so high).

 

D4500s were just overkill. I can maybe understand SI needing them because of how far they travel, but they really could've stuck with O5 and RTS with the suburban seats to use them exclusively for express service instead of D4500s for the other 3 boroughs. Edited by Grand Concourse
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The RTS express should go to the BM lines after testing on NYC Bus...

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D4500s were just overkill. I can maybe understand SI needing them because of how far they travel, but they really could've stuck with O5 and RTS with the suburban seats to use them exclusively for express service instead of D4500s for the other 3 boroughs.

 

The RTS express should go to the BM lines after testing on NYC Bus...

 

Definitely agreed. D4500s/Prevosts are needed on SI, maybe some other depots too (Yonkers probably), but the other boroughs can do with transit buses with suburban seating. FFS Bee-Line uses Orion Vs with Suburban Seating on the BxM4C, which has got to be longer than any (MTA) express route.

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I disagree--the D4500's hold 57 people, and on the routes I use (the QM1/5/6/7/8), those buses are filled to capacity during peak hours. It is cheaper to pay for 1 MCI bus than have to pay 2 B/O's to run 2 05's in order to handle the crowd. Plus, many other places use the MCI's for their express routes (just look at NJ Transit), and the buses are not that expensive (relatively) when they are ordered in large batches. The 05's do not have the reading lamps or personal vents, and a majority of the riders are business people that do work on the buses and need the space and the light.

 

Could the smaller EXP routes or off-peak runs make due with 05's? Yes. Would people complain? Definitely. Whether or not people are spoiled by the MCI's is an irrelevant questions. The point is that the riders want the good lighting and it is cost effective to use a bigger bus and have a uniform fleet. Again, I still think that the MCI's have a lot of wasted space with the luggage compartments, but it does not seem like there is any option that is the best of both worlds--that is, having a lot of seats, personal lighting, comfortable seats without the luggage compartments.

 

I know there was some other demo bus that (I think) was an articulated bus with all of these options. Maybe the bus companies are finally trying new things with their express buses.

 

If this new RTS has a lot of seats and personal lights (or outlets), I am all for it. But if it is just a regular bus with suburban seating, I will not be happy listening to all the other riders bitch about it.

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I disagree--the D4500's hold 57 people, and on the routes I use (the QM1/5/6/7/8), those buses are filled to capacity during peak hours. It is cheaper to pay for 1 MCI bus than have to pay 2 B/O's to run 2 05's in order to handle the crowd. Plus, many other places use the MCI's for their express routes (just look at NJ Transit), and the buses are not that expensive (relatively) when they are ordered in large batches. The 05's do not have the reading lamps or personal vents, and a majority of the riders are business people that do work on the buses and need the space and the light.

 

Could the smaller EXP routes or off-peak runs make due with 05's? Yes. Would people complain? Definitely. Whether or not people are spoiled by the MCI's is an irrelevant questions. The point is that the riders want the good lighting and it is cost effective to use a bigger bus and have a uniform fleet. Again, I still think that the MCI's have a lot of wasted space with the luggage compartments, but it does not seem like there is any option that is the best of both worlds--that is, having a lot of seats, personal lighting, comfortable seats without the luggage compartments.

 

I know there was some other demo bus that (I think) was an articulated bus with all of these options. Maybe the bus companies are finally trying new things with their express buses.

 

If this new RTS has a lot of seats and personal lights (or outlets), I am all for it. But if it is just a regular bus with suburban seating, I will not be happy listening to all the other riders bitch about it.

 

 

It's not just a regular bus with suburban seating. It has the same amenities as an MCI, but it is cheaper and more reliable! It has 49 seats, less than an MCI, but many won't notice the 8 seat difference.

Edited by ThrexxBus

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I looked up the RTS brochure for the express version, and it really does seem like it combines the best of both worlds. My only critique is that the bus looks like butt-ugly. Personally, I actually like the retro exterior and new interior, but I can imagine why people would make fun of the bus. HOwever, if it is as reliable as existing RTS's, then I am sure the MTA and other transit agencies will be looking very closely at this bus.

Edited by QM1to6Ave
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Do you have any proof of this? If so, it sounds like an excellent choice to me for off-peak service or lower usage routes. The 8 seats will make a difference at peak hours on heavily used routes.

 

 

How many runs are loaded to capacity to the point where those extra eight seats make a difference?

 

NYBS and Liberty Lines did fine over the years using suburban versions of transit coaches. It would be interesting if we could somehow see an honest analysis of the cost difference when MTA Bus transitioned to the D4500's, including the capital cost difference, cost per vehicle-hour and vehicle-mile operated, and cost per passenger-mile and passenger-trip. This could be compared to the estimated costs had the MTA instead opted to purchase a fleet of Orion V suburbans, or perhaps a mix of Orions and MCI's with the cruisers being used for the heaviest runs.

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I looked up the RTS brochure for the express version, and it really does seem like it combines the best of both worlds. My only critique is that the bus looks like butt-ugly. Personally, I actually like the retro exterior and new interior, but I can imagine why people would make fun of the bus. HOwever, if it is as reliable as existing RTS's, then I am sure the MTA and other transit agencies will be looking very closely at this bus.

 

 

It could look better, but the (MTA) is interested in the regular front door version, which looks much better, so that should put your heart at ease.

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I know there was some other demo bus that (I think) was an articulated bus with all of these options. Maybe the bus companies are finally trying new things with their express buses.

Are you thinking of the articulated double-decker?

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It could look better, but the (MTA) is interested in the regular front door version, which looks much better, so that should put your heart at ease.

 

 

No, the MTA is not interested in the classic front door. They are interested in the wide front door with front wheel chair lift. Only a rear door lift is available with the classic front door.

 

T42-209MTA2500.jpg

2013 RTS T42-210 Express 42.5 footer

 

http://millenniumtra...m/products.html

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Are you thinking of the articulated double-decker?

 

 

I don't think it was a double decker...didn't they try the double decker out with a special kneeling feature to fit in the tunnels, but nobody liked it? I know I saw the picture of the bus I am thinking of on here a few months back. I'll try and find it later.

 

No, the MTA is not interested in the classic front door. They are interested in the wide front door with front wheel chair lift. Only a rear door lift is available with the classic front door.

 

T42-209MTA2500.jpg

2013 RTS T42-210 Express 42.5 footer

 

http://millenniumtra...m/products.html

 

 

I'm curious- do you know how wide the seats are, compared to the MCI's? I've been hearing about how companies are making wider and stronger seats now that obesity is such an epidemic.

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How many runs are loaded to capacity to the point where those extra eight seats make a difference?

 

NYBS and Liberty Lines did fine over the years using suburban versions of transit coaches. It would be interesting if we could somehow see an honest analysis of the cost difference when MTA Bus transitioned to the D4500's, including the capital cost difference, cost per vehicle-hour and vehicle-mile operated, and cost per passenger-mile and passenger-trip. This could be compared to the estimated costs had the MTA instead opted to purchase a fleet of Orion V suburbans, or perhaps a mix of Orions and MCI's with the cruisers being used for the heaviest runs.

 

 

I can only talk about the routes I know, and trust me, those 8 seats make all the difference in the mornings heading into the city and in the afternoons heading back. There are lines 10 or 12 people long waiting for the buses, and most buses are filled to capacity before we even hit main street (the last pick-up location). It's too bad that KR hasn't posted in a while- he's on the QM5 in the morning and his bus is almost always full at Main Street (he says hi to everyone, by the way).

 

Also, for a while, CP did have a mix of 05's and MCI's. The problem was that the B/O's that would do the off-peak runs would usually also have a peak shift run as well, which made it much harder to only use the 05's off-peak. In fact, from my experience, most of the 05's were used during peak hours (especially around 7 am for some reason).

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You mean that Van Hool dd bus that had to use the kneeling while going thru the Lincoln tunnel when it ran on the X17J? I honestly thought it was pretty neat (rode that type of bus at Vegas's deuces line). But the upper level headroom was too short and they probably could've lowered the height of the lower level.

Edited by Grand Concourse

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I don't think it was a double decker...didn't they try the double decker out with a special kneeling feature to fit in the tunnels, but nobody liked it? I know I saw the picture of the bus I am thinking of on here a few months back. I'll try and find it later.

You mean that Van Hool dd bus that had to use the kneeling while going thru the Lincoln tunnel when it ran on the X17J? I honestly thought it was pretty neat (rode that type of bus at Vegas's deuces line). But the upper level headroom was too short and they probably could've lowered the height of the lower level.

I guess what I'm thinking about wasn't an express bus. I think I remembered it testing on one of the local routes on 125th.

I didn't remember an articulated express being tested.

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