TheSubwayStation Posted July 13, 2012 Share #76 Posted July 13, 2012 I mean, I'm sorry but I still stand by this: if you're white or Asian, you are not reasonably in a place to make a strongly pro-stop and frisk judgement. I hate to be blunt but it's the truth. When it's a program that's as racially biased as stop and frisk, the race that isn't involved isn't in a place to go supporting it. It's the same way a black baptist isn't in a place to go support Jewish persecution -- unless you're the party being targeted, it's inappropriate to go touting how great it is. I don't think anybody of any race should support stop and frisk, but it's even more inappropriate if it's a person of a race that would never be targeted, never be subjected to the shame of being groped by a cop in the middle of the street. I don't "do anything with the white folk" or "expect to get away with anything" (whatever that means), I just call it like I see it.I actually disagree with this. People can have any opinion on stop and frisk regardless of their race. However, while VG8 is allowed to support stop and frisk if he wants to, I don't think he's in a position to say that getting stopped-and-frisked is an okay experience. I don't agree with his statement that if you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind getting stopped-and-frisked. People who have been stopped-and-frisked say that it's a harassing experience. Since VG8 has never been stopped-and-frisked, I don't think he's qualified to dictate whether or not it's an upsetting experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share #77 Posted July 13, 2012 First, that's not what Fascism is just for a Government 101 breather here, and secondly, that's nowhere near anything I've ever said so don't even flatter yourself with those bullsh!t quotes. As far as I'm concerned that's a perfect example of fascism. Why am I not surprised that you would believe otherwise... You're missing the fundamental point here, which is that it's not a question of whether I want to call on them, it's a question of whether I CAN call on them. They're not doing their jobs, plain and simple. I was just talking to a friend about this the other day: he told me that in this climate, he's scared to call on the cops. He's a little older than me and he told me it feels just like it did when he was growing up in the 70s and early 80s, that the cops would rather arrest him for having an ounce on him than for the actual crime committed. The cops aren't protecting the people, they're serving their own army -- I pay money so I can call of them, it's not like they do it for the greater good. It's funny because I hardly ever hear of mixed folks like myself or whites or other minorities (i.e. Asians) complaining about the cops. Usually just blacks for the most part. Your mix seems to be mainly white yet you have so much conflict with the cops? Very strange. I mean, I'm sorry but I still stand by this: if you're white or Asian, you are not reasonably in a place to make a strongly pro-stop and frisk judgement. I hate to be blunt but it's the truth. When it's a program that's as racially biased as stop and frisk, the race that isn't involved isn't in a place to go supporting it. It's the same way a black baptist isn't in a place to go support Jewish persecution -- unless you're the party being targeted, it's inappropriate to go touting how great it is. I don't think anybody of any race should support stop and frisk, but it's even more inappropriate if it's a person of a race that would never be targeted, never be subjected to the shame of being groped by a cop in the middle of the street. I don't "do anything with the white folk" or "expect to get away with anything" (whatever that means), I just call it like I see it. Well I guess because I'm mixed and live in an affluent area, I shouldn't have a say on Stop & Frisk huh? Well I'm sorry but I don't want some thugs from Kingsbridge or some other run down ghetto in the Bronx coming up to my neck of the woods with the riff raff, so I support Stop & Frisk 100%. The high crime areas need to be contained and I get sick of hearing about thugs coming to the safe neighborhoods to cause problems. It's like their neighborhoods are f-ed up so let's come to the affluent areas and cause problems too... No... When we had an outbreak in crime due to thugs coming up to Riverdale from Kingsbridge, we had cop cars all over the place and I was just fine with it because they were doing their jobs, which is to protect the neighborhood from the thugs. I still don't understand why blacks are so intimidated by cops. Maybe I can't quite relate since I'm mixed, but I've never felt threatened by cops. Can the blacks shed some light on this?? Like the great philosopher Shaggy said: "You either behind the bar or six foot under." He was rapping (more like riddim-ing if you wanna call it that) about smugglers, but it's pretty applicable here too. That all said, I still say Ray Kelly has no right to even open his trap on this...his officers are no longer protecting the people but serving his own army. All the problems at the NYPD stem right from the top, and that begins with Dear Leader Kelly. The NYPD'd rather attack dissenters (OWS) than actually fight crime, and they're so badly trained and trained in such a racist way that they end up pulling sh!t like the Ramarley Graham scene. Disgusts me. Trained in a racist way??? More like trained to stop thugs from taking over. Can we calm our egos in for a second here? I love the snap judgements you make that absolutely everybody is jealous of your great success... No snap judgements... Just truth. I actually disagree with this. People can have any opinion on stop and frisk regardless of their race. However, while VG8 is allowed to support stop and frisk if he wants to, I don't think he's in a position to say that getting stopped-and-frisked is an okay experience. I don't agree with his statement that if you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind getting stopped-and-frisked. People who have been stopped-and-frisked say that it's a harassing experience. Since VG8 has never been stopped-and-frisked, I don't think he's qualified to dictate whether or not it's an upsetting experience. Maybe I haven't been stopped and frisked, but I've been stopped randomly at Grand Central and at the SI Ferry terminal where they have those tables set up and they asked me to open my laptop bag and I did so and the cops were very respectful. In fact they didn't even do a thorough search... Just the main parts of the bag and that was it. Could it be that some folks are just paranoid? Maybe I've never been stopped and frisked because I'm not a thug? Seems like a good reason IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 13, 2012 Share #78 Posted July 13, 2012 I thought this was interesting: This is how Wikipedia describes a legal stop-and-frisk: Stop and frisk In the United States, a law enforcement officer may briefly detain a person upon reasonable suspicion of involvement in a crime but short of probable cause to arrest; such a detention is known as a Terry stop.[1] When a search for weapons is also authorized, the procedure is known as a stop and frisk. To justify the stop, a law enforcement officer must be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” that would indicate to a reasonable person that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed.[2] If the officer reasonably suspects that the suspect is in possession of a weapon that is of danger to the officer or others, the officer may conduct a frisking of the suspect’s outer garments to search for weapons. The search must be limited to what is necessary to discover weapons;[3] however, pursuant to the “plain feel” doctrine, police may seize contraband discovered in the course of a frisk, but only if the contraband's identity is immediately apparent.[4] So, it would appear that "You look suspicious!" isn't enough evidence to justify stopping-and-frisking someone. By the way, "reasonable suspicion" is defined as this: Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard of proof in United States law that is less than probable cause, the legal standard for arrests and warrants, but more than an "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or 'hunch' ";[1] it must be based on "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts".[2]Police may briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion that the person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such a detention is known as a Terry stop. If police additionally have reasonable suspicion that a person so detained may be armed, they may "frisk" the person for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard,[3] in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; it depends upon the totality of circumstances, and can result from a combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous. Note: if any of you guys can find evidence showing that these Wikipedia articles are wrong, feel free to post it, but please don't just say, "Wikipedia is always unreliable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share #79 Posted July 13, 2012 I thought this was interesting: This is how Wikipedia describes a legal stop-and-frisk: So, it would appear that "You look suspicious!" isn't enough evidence to justify stopping-and-frisking someone. By the way, "reasonable suspicion" is defined as this: Note: if any of you guys can find evidence showing that these Wikipedia articles are wrong, feel free to post it, but please don't just say, "Wikipedia is always unreliable". Looking suspicious is most CERTAINLY a reason to stop and frisk someone. Not sure where you got the idea that it isn't. Wikipedia can be put up by anyone so yes it isn't the most accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 13, 2012 Share #80 Posted July 13, 2012 Looking suspicious is most CERTAINLY a reason to stop and frisk someone. Not sure where you got the idea that it isn't. Wikipedia can be put up by anyone so yes it isn't the most accurate. To you, but maybe not to the law. If you don't trust the Wikipedia article, maybe you'll trust this website: http://www.law.corne...nable_suspicion A standard used in criminal procedure, more relaxed than probable cause, that can justify less-intrusive searches. For example, a reasonable suspicion justifies a stop and frisk, but not a full search. A reasonable suspicion exists when a reasonable person under the circumstances, would, based upon specific and articulable facts, suspect that a crime has been committed. I don't think that "looking suspicious" is a "specific and articulable fact". Tell me if you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted July 13, 2012 Share #81 Posted July 13, 2012 I actually disagree with this. People can have any opinion on stop and frisk regardless of their race. However, while VG8 is allowed to support stop and frisk if he wants to, I don't think he's in a position to say that getting stopped-and-frisked is an okay experience. I don't agree with his statement that if you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind getting stopped-and-frisked. People who have been stopped-and-frisked say that it's a harassing experience. Since VG8 has never been stopped-and-frisked, I don't think he's qualified to dictate whether or not it's an upsetting experience. You are allowed to have any opinion regardless of race. That's true. But what I'm saying is you're frankly not in a position to promote something that mainly harms another race when you're not a member of that race. That applies to everything. As far as I'm concerned that's a perfect example of fascism. Why am I not surprised that you would believe otherwise... What kind of defense is that? "As far as I'm concerned." Good rebuttal. It's funny because I hardly ever hear of mixed folks like myself or whites or other minorities (i.e. Asians) complaining about the cops. Usually just blacks for the most part. Your mix seems to be mainly white yet you have so much conflict with the cops? Very strange. What mix of races I'm made of has nothing to do with my opinion on cops: my "conflict" with cops is due to their continually racist tactics, lack of professionalism towards the public, and bordering on unconstitutional attempts to stop dissent. Very strange. Well I guess because I'm mixed and live in an affluent area, I shouldn't have a say on Stop & Frisk huh? Well I'm sorry but I don't want some thugs from Kingsbridge or some other run down ghetto in the Bronx coming up to my neck of the woods with the riff raff, so I support Stop & Frisk 100%. The high crime areas need to be contained and I get sick of hearing about thugs coming to the safe neighborhoods to cause problems. It's like their neighborhoods are f-ed up so let's come to the affluent areas and cause problems too... No... When we had an outbreak in crime due to thugs coming up to Riverdale from Kingsbridge, we had cop cars all over the place and I was just fine with it because they were doing their jobs, which is to protect the neighborhood from the thugs. I still don't understand why blacks are so intimidated by cops. Maybe I can't quite relate since I'm mixed, but I've never felt threatened by cops. Can the blacks shed some light on this?? This is one of the most disgustingly elitist and ignorant posts I've ever read, and that's saying something considering your usual posts. I can't actually think of a reply for this. Trained in a racist way??? More like trained to stop thugs from taking over. I mean, they watch films showing them how to target Muslims, they're taught to draw weapons all the time, and they massively focus their stops and frisks on black and Latinos, even when they're less likely to have weapons than whites that are frisked. This is not new stuff. I thought this was interesting: This is how Wikipedia describes a legal stop-and-frisk: So, it would appear that "You look suspicious!" isn't enough evidence to justify stopping-and-frisking someone. By the way, "reasonable suspicion" is defined as this: Note: if any of you guys can find evidence showing that these Wikipedia articles are wrong, feel free to post it, but please don't just say, "Wikipedia is always unreliable". That's not really true though. Over 50% of stop and frisks are justified by "furtive movements," which is essentially a made-up police phrase that translates to suspicious movements -- i.e., in theory, walking with a limp means you have a gun on you, god knows why. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/14/opinion/injustices-of-stop-and-frisk.html?_r=1&ref=stopandfrisk http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/opinion/reform-stop-and-frisk.html?ref=stopandfrisk Then, on top of that, 36% of stops and frisks have no suspected crime listed for the stop. "You look suspicious" is the ONLY reason these guys have, and that's legally pathetic as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 13, 2012 Share #82 Posted July 13, 2012 That's not really true though. Over 50% of stop and frisks are justified by "furtive movements," which is essentially a made-up police phrase that translates to suspicious movements -- i.e., in theory, walking with a limp means you have a gun on you, god knows why.Exactly. I'm arguing that stop-and-frisk breaks that law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoria Line Posted July 14, 2012 Share #83 Posted July 14, 2012 As far as I'm concerned that's a perfect example of fascism. Why am I not surprised that you would believe otherwise... It's funny because I hardly ever hear of mixed folks like myself or whites or other minorities (i.e. Asians) complaining about the cops. Usually just blacks for the most part. Your mix seems to be mainly white yet you have so much conflict with the cops? Very strange. Well I guess because I'm mixed and live in an affluent area, I shouldn't have a say on Stop & Frisk huh? Well I'm sorry but I don't want some thugs from Kingsbridge or some other run down ghetto in the Bronx coming up to my neck of the woods with the riff raff, so I support Stop & Frisk 100%. The high crime areas need to be contained and I get sick of hearing about thugs coming to the safe neighborhoods to cause problems. It's like their neighborhoods are f-ed up so let's come to the affluent areas and cause problems too... No... When we had an outbreak in crime due to thugs coming up to Riverdale from Kingsbridge, we had cop cars all over the place and I was just fine with it because they were doing their jobs, which is to protect the neighborhood from the thugs. I still don't understand why blacks are so intimidated by cops. Maybe I can't quite relate since I'm mixed, but I've never felt threatened by cops. Can the blacks shed some light on this?? Trained in a racist way??? More like trained to stop thugs from taking over. No snap judgements... Just truth. Maybe I haven't been stopped and frisked, but I've been stopped randomly at Grand Central and at the SI Ferry terminal where they have those tables set up and they asked me to open my laptop bag and I did so and the cops were very respectful. In fact they didn't even do a thorough search... Just the main parts of the bag and that was it. Could it be that some folks are just paranoid? Maybe I've never been stopped and frisked because I'm not a thug? Seems like a good reason IMO. Plenty of ppl complain about cops, ppl of all races, so don't say that mixed, white or asian ppl don't complain about cops b/c that is absurd.. I know loads of mixed/white ppl who complain about cops... Black ppl are not intimidated by cops necessarily, its the fact that some are racist and some cops do target ppl based on their races (most "suspicious" ppl in the police's eyes are minorities and you KNOW that is true)... If you were in the shoes of some of these ppl than you would understand, but since you look down on them b/c they aren't as high up as you, you will keep that attitude and view of them that you do now.... I am mixed too, so your answer doesn't work very well does it? It seems like every neighborhood that isn't yours in the bronx is f-ed up huh? Not all thugs go to wealthier neighborhoods to cause trouble actually tbh.. In every "good" neighborhood, there are some bad apples who cause trouble, there are some EVERYWHERE. I live in one of the wealthiest middle class black neighborhoods in the country (yes google it, ) and there are some bad apples (they live on another side of the neighborhood) but the point is, that there is potential for trouble anywhere... I am mixed like you are, but are views are different because I have witnessed some of these things but you haven't.... I have had my bag search before in Union Square before and I am 17.. They search anyone who has a big bag, the transit police, as I have experienced are very respectful and kind, unlike cops on the street... Paranoid? How? This might be a shock to you, but not everyone that gets stopped and frisked is a thug.. Why do you think only 7-10% (something like that I don't remember exactly) of stop and frisks had a weapon recovered? Not everybody that gets stopped and frisked is a thug and is out to harm ppl, some are honest ppl targeted by the police for whatever reason... Why do you think some ppl recall it as a harassing and embarassing experience.. Imagine yourself just walking down the street minding your own business, and a cop just decides to stop and frisk you, it can be embarassing and harassing b/c you didn't do anything wrong you are just a regular person and you don't understand why this is happening (not saying this happens all the time, but you hopefully should get my point)... You may not understand considering you haven't been stopped and frisked and you look down on ppl from "poorer areas" which most of them aren't even poor tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #84 Posted July 14, 2012 What mix of races I'm made of has nothing to do with my opinion on cops: my "conflict" with cops is due to their continually racist tactics, lack of professionalism towards the public, and bordering on unconstitutional attempts to stop dissent. Very strange. So I guess you've been harassed is that right? If not then seems like you just like to complain because you have yet to give anything concrete to show them being anything but professional. I'm not saying cops are perfect, but you seem to have this uber high standard for them as if they're machines or something. They're HUMANS like everyone else and they make mistakes. Let's see how great of a cop you would be Mr. I'm not racist. I could see it now... This is one of the most disgustingly elitist and ignorant posts I've ever read, and that's saying something considering your usual posts. I can't actually think of a reply for this. Well I'm sorry if I want my neighborhood to remain safe and free from thugs... If that makes me an elitist then so be it. I mean, they watch films showing them how to target Muslims, they're taught to draw weapons all the time, and they massively focus their stops and frisks on black and Latinos, even when they're less likely to have weapons than whites that are frisked. This is not new stuff. Let's see... Who was the cause of 9/11 again??? Oh and when I lived in Europe we had the same thing going on... Extreme terrorists of Muslim religion trying to terrorize Western countries as they have been for years. What a surprise. I lived through 9/11 and the terrorist attacks in Spain back in 2004. In Italy Rome and Milan in particular were on high alert. We really felt for our European brothers in Spain because that could've been us in Italy, not to mention how close Spain & Italy are culturally and historically. If they want a fair deal tell them to stop blowing up trains, flying planes into buildings and killing innocent Westerners. As for them massively focusing their Stop & Frisks on blacks and Latinos, who are the ones committing most of the crime again?? Mainly blacks and they're the ones frisked the most which makes sense as far as I'm concerned. A small detail you and The Subway Station LOVE to leave out. As for them drawing their weapons quickly, well I'd do the same thing if i had some thugs running about. When I went to Bedford Stuyvesant a month or so ago I was holding on to my wallet for dear life and I was only there for a few hours. I saw a cop at the train station and we both looked at other like I'm getting out of this hell hole. Wish you luck here. That's not really true though. Over 50% of stop and frisks are justified by "furtive movements," which is essentially a made-up police phrase that translates to suspicious movements -- i.e., in theory, walking with a limp means you have a gun on you, god knows why. http://www.nytimes.c...ef=stopandfrisk http://www.nytimes.c...ef=stopandfrisk Then, on top of that, 36% of stops and frisks have no suspected crime listed for the stop. "You look suspicious" is the ONLY reason these guys have, and that's legally pathetic as well. Well that's funny that you talk about what is "legal". The fact still remains that Stop & Frisk is LEGAL and will continue to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #85 Posted July 14, 2012 Well I'm sorry if I want my neighborhood to remain safe and free from thugs... If that makes me an elitist then so be it. Nah, we knew you were an elitist way before this. Let's see... Who was the cause of 9/11 again??? All I can say is: I'm glad I found this icon. So you're saying all Muslims should be under suspicion because the guys involved in 9/11 happened to be Muslim? As for them drawing their weapons quickly, well I'd do the same thing if i had some thugs running about. When I went to Bedford Stuyvesant a month or so ago I was holding on to my wallet for dear life and I was only there for a few hours. I saw a cop at the train station and we both looked at other like I'm getting out of this hell hole. Wish you luck here. Well maybe if you didn't walk around acting like you were better than everybody else, you wouldn't have to worry about being robbed. I could say more, but I'll stop here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #86 Posted July 14, 2012 So your saying all Muslims should be under suspicion because the guys involved in 9/11 happened to be Muslim? If the shoe fits... 3,000 lives + have been lost to Muslim extremists... That says enough. Well maybe if you didn't walk around acting like you were better than everybody else, you wouldn't have to worry about being robbed. I could say more, but I'll stop here...... Yeah you should... You say enough as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #87 Posted July 14, 2012 If the shoe fits... 3,000 lives + have been lost to Muslim extremists... That says enough. Uh, yeah and 99.9% of Muslims aren't extremists, so no the shoe doesn't fit. Damn, you keep giving more and more proof of your racism, but I digress.... Yeah you should... You say enough as it is. Don't tempt me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #88 Posted July 14, 2012 Uh, yeah and 99.9% of Muslims aren't extremists, so no the shoe doesn't fit. Damn, you keep giving more and more proof of your racism, but I digress.... 99.9%... Try telling that to the thousands of families with lost ones... Everyone is SO innocent and then out of nowhere you hear about their terrorist plot being thwarted.... No, I'm not a racist... I'm a realist... You on the other hand are the typical gullible one... I Don't tempt me...... Yeah because it's your place as usual... What a surprise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #89 Posted July 14, 2012 99.9%... Try telling that to the thousands of families with lost ones... Everyone is SO innocent and then out of nowhere you hear about their terrorist plot being thwarted.... No, I'm not a racist... I'm a realist... You on the other hand are the typical gullible one... I Uh, yeah and their family was killed by that 0.1% (if even that) who are extremists. I guarantee you there were a few Muslims in there when the towers fell. And what the hell are you talking about a terrorist plot being thwarted? And what were you saying about yourself? You said "I" and that was the end of the sentence. In any case, keep trying to convince yourself because you sure as hell haven't convinced me and quite a few other members.... Yeah because it's your place as usual... What a surprise... Wow. Comments like the ones above. What a surprise...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #90 Posted July 14, 2012 Uh, yeah and their family was killed by that 0.1% (if even that) who are extremists. I guarantee you there were a few Muslims in there when the towers fell. And what the hell are you talking about a terrorist plot being thwarted? And what were you saying about yourself? You said "I" and that was the end of the sentence. In any case, keep trying to convince yourself because you sure as hell haven't convinced me and quite a few other members.... I don't need to convince you or anyone else because I don't need your approval on my thoughts, even though you seem to think so. Your opinion isn't the final answer, though you always seem to think that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted July 14, 2012 Share #91 Posted July 14, 2012 I actually disagree with this. People can have any opinion on stop and frisk regardless of their race. However, while VG8 is allowed to support stop and frisk if he wants to, I don't think he's in a position to say that getting stopped-and-frisked is an okay experience. I don't agree with his statement that if you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind getting stopped-and-frisked. People who have been stopped-and-frisked say that it's a harassing experience. Since VG8 has never been stopped-and-frisked, I don't think he's qualified to dictate whether or not it's an upsetting experience. I don't like when strangers touch me period, it's called respecting one's personal space and when that space is invaded you just can't help but wanna knock the living daylights out of said person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Share #92 Posted July 14, 2012 @ VG8, once again, stop-and-frisk is only legal under certain circumstances. Those circumstances aren't always met: STOP AND FRISK A brief, non-intrusive, police stop of a suspect. The Fourth Amendment requires that the police have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed before stopping a suspect. If the police reasonably suspect the person is armed and dangerous, they may conduct a frisk, a quick pat-down of the person’s outer clothing. See Terry v Ohio, 392 US 1, (1967). DEFINITION FROM NOLO’S PLAIN-ENGLISH LAW DICTIONARY A law enforcement officer's brief detention, questioning, and search for a concealed weapon when the officer has reason to believe that the detainee has committed or is about to commit a crime. Any further search requires either a search warrant or probable cause to believe the suspect will commit or has committed a crime (including carrying a concealed weapon, which itself is a crime). Definition provided by Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary. REASONABLE SUSPICION A standard used in criminal procedure, more relaxed than probable cause, that can justify less-intrusive searches. For example, a reasonable suspicion justifies a stop and frisk, but not a full search. A reasonable suspicion exists when a reasonable person under the circumstances, would, based upon specific and articulable facts, suspect that a crime has been committed. Remember, the police's job is to catch criminals, not "thugs". "Looking like a thug" is not an excuse for a stop-and-frisk, because it's too vague...A police officer can't justify that he stopped a guy just because he looked odd. PERIOD. For example, a bulge in someone's pocket is OBVIOUS evidence that the guy has a gun, in which case a stop-and-frisk is a very good thing. But "wearing a hoodie" for example is not evidence that the guy is breaking any SPECIFIC LAW, in which case a stop-and-frisk would seem to be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #93 Posted July 14, 2012 @ VG8, once again, stop-and-frisk is only legal under certain circumstances. Those circumstances aren't always met: Remember, the police's job is to catch criminals, not "thugs". "Looking like a thug" is not an excuse for a stop-and-frisk, because it's too vague...A police officer can't justify that he stopped a guy just because he looked odd. PERIOD. For example, a bulge in someone's pocket is OBVIOUS evidence that the guy has a gun, in which case a stop-and-frisk is a very good thing. But "wearing a hoodie" for example is not evidence that the guy is breaking any SPECIFIC LAW, in which case a stop-and-frisk would seem to be illegal. And what do you think a thug is a nice guy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoria Line Posted July 14, 2012 Share #94 Posted July 14, 2012 And what do you think a thug is a nice guy?? There are some people who dress like thugs but they do it for image, when really they wouldn't hit anyone or do any of that.. Not everybody that is dressed like a thug ACTUALLY is a thug, js.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #95 Posted July 14, 2012 There are some people who dress like thugs but they do it for image, when really they wouldn't hit anyone or do any of that.. Not everybody that is dressed like a thug ACTUALLY is a thug, js.... Oh I forgot we had this conversation before... I said in that other Stop & Frisk thread that we as a society live by images and if you want to give an image of a thug then you can't expect to be treated otherwise. I mean come on now... Folks want to dress like a thug and expect respect from the cops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Share #96 Posted July 14, 2012 And what do you think a thug is a nice guy?? You're totally missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #97 Posted July 14, 2012 You're totally missing the point. Not at all. The whole point of having police around is just not for them to deal with crimes AFTER they've occurred (which seems to be your attitude, which is quite ignorant), but to STOP them BEFORE they occur. In short the MAIN job of cops is to DETER crime. Here's a question for you... How should cops go about stopping crimes before they occur without looking for suspicious individuals?? The system isn't perfect and there will be innocent people in the process, but that's part of the deal. You can lessen your chances of being an innocent victim by not portraying yourself as a criminal and dressing in such a way to make yourself a suspect in the first place. If it wasn't for cops acting BEFORE crimes occurred, many terrorist attacks that have been thwarted here since 9/11 perhaps wouldn't have been and if Stop & Frisk helps prevent another 9/11, I'm all for it. You can sit back and throw a hissy fit about so many "innocent" people being stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted July 14, 2012 Share #98 Posted July 14, 2012 Not at all. The whole point of having police around is just not for them to deal with crimes AFTER they've occurred (which seems to be your attitude, which is quite ignorant), but to STOP them BEFORE they occur. In short the MAIN job of cops is to DETER crime. Here's a question for you... How should cops go about stopping crimes before they occur without looking for suspicious individuals?? The system isn't perfect and there will be innocent people in the process, but that's part of the deal. You can lessen your chances of being an innocent victim by not portraying yourself as a criminal and dressing in such a way to make yourself a suspect in the first place. If it wasn't for cops acting BEFORE crimes occurred, many terrorist attacks that have been thwarted here since 9/11 perhaps wouldn't have been and if Stop & Frisk helps prevent another 9/11, I'm all for it. You can sit back and throw a hissy fit about so many "innocent" people being stopped. For the third time, you've ignored the legal information that I've provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoria Line Posted July 14, 2012 Share #99 Posted July 14, 2012 Oh I forgot we had this conversation before... I said in that other Stop & Frisk thread that we as a society live by images and if you want to give an image of a thug then you can't expect to be treated otherwise. I mean come on now... Folks want to dress like a thug and expect respect from the cops? Some ppl dress like "thugs" for many reasons, some do it so they give off the impression that they don't want to be messed with for example, they don't think about that... Some cops don't have respect, when I lived in LES even I was bothered by cops on an occasion, mind you I was 16 and you, as everybody else here knows, that I don't dress like a thug... Some cops go to low income or high crime areas, but you have less chance to experience this because you are too afraid to go to some of these areas... The problem is VG8, is that you can't see the other side, the side of the people, as your attitude is rather posh and sometimes arrogant, there are two sides to every situation, look and read what everyone else here is saying and think about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 14, 2012 Share #100 Posted July 14, 2012 For the third time, you've ignored the legal information that I've provided. I read it... I don't see your point because it seems to me as if you have a problem with Stop & Frisk, even if it is followed based on what you posted, so I still pose my questions that I posed before and I await answers... Some ppl dress like "thugs" for many reasons, some do it so they give off the impression that they don't want to be messed with for example, they don't think about that... Some cops don't have respect, when I lived in LES even I was bothered by cops on an occasion, mind you I was 16 and you, as everybody else here knows, that I don't dress like a thug... Some cops go to low income or high crime areas, but you have less chance to experience this because you are too afraid to go to some of these areas... The problem is VG8, is that you can't see the other side, the side of the people, as your attitude is rather posh and sometimes arrogant, there are two sides to every situation, look and read what everyone else here is saying and think about it.... No, it's not "the people" just some people... Listen... We don't live in a perfect world, and cops aren't perfect. The ones criticizing cops fail to acknowledge the crap that cops go through, most importantly that they risk THEIR LIVES for you ungrateful folks EVERYDAY and one decision can mean their life. They can't take anything for granted, period. Yes, they're paid to do so, but that is some damn sacrifice to make and I doubt many of the folks criticizing the cops would be willing to do so. The fact remains that if some groups have such issues with being targeted, then they should stop doing most of the crime. The end result is that it creates a sh*tty situation for the innocent folks. Is it f*cked up? No question about it, but instead of blaming the cops, MOST of whom are simply trying to do their jobs and come home ALIVE to their families at night, blame the folks DOING the crime!! I don't hear about that though. That's just glossed over continuously. I guess the folks doing the crimes are innocent too right? These people that you, The Subway Station and others constantly bash for the most part are GOOD cops who have families just like you guys and yes I know some of them are rotten but let's be fair and spread the blame on both sides. No one is still mentioning anything concrete to help LOWER crime by blacks especially... Nothing but bash the cops. The cops are NOT the sole reason here. Let's first admit that and then perhaps some progress can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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