Ray Kelly blasts "Minority" community leaders over silence on violence

[Astoria Line]

I read it... I don't see your point because it seems to me as if you have a problem with Stop & Frisk, even if it is followed based on what you posted, so I still pose my questions that I posed before and I await answers...

 

 

No, it's not "the people" just some people... Listen... We don't live in a perfect world, and cops aren't perfect. The ones criticizing cops fail to acknowledge the crap that cops go through, most importantly that they risk THEIR LIVES for you ungrateful folks EVERYDAY and one decision can mean their life. They can't take anything for granted, period. Yes, they're paid to do so, but that is some damn sacrifice to make and I doubt many of the folks criticizing the cops would be willing to do so.

 

The fact remains that if some groups have such issues with being targeted, then they should stop doing most of the crime. The end result is that it creates a sh*tty situation for the innocent folks. Is it f*cked up? No question about it, but instead of blaming the cops, MOST of whom are simply trying to do their jobs and come home ALIVE to their families at night, blame the folks DOING the crime!! I don't hear about that though. That's just glossed over continuously. I guess the folks doing the crimes are innocent too right? These people that you, The Subway Station and others constantly bash for the most part are GOOD cops who have families just like you guys and yes I know some of them are rotten but let's be fair and spread the blame on both sides. No one is still mentioning anything concrete to help LOWER crime by blacks especially... Nothing but bash the cops. The cops are NOT the sole reason here. Let's first admit that and then perhaps some progress can be made.

 

 

We probably won't see each other eye to eye

I will say this... I did NOT say "all" cops, I say some because I can't speak for all, my uncle is a cop, and he is a GOOD cop, another reason why I did not say all, but there are corrupt ones, no doubt about that..

 

And, you are saying if we (minorities) don't want to be targeted, then we should stop doing crime, as if all minorities do crimes, son there are bad apples as I said in my previous long post. Bad apples EVERYWHERE.. There are minorities that do crimes and ruin it for the rest of us, but the way you are putting it, your making it seem like we can just tell them stop doing crime, no it is not that simple.. Just like how you are telling us to realize what cops go through (when nobody mentioned ALL cops, only SOME or CERTAIN) realize what we as minorities go through...

 

EDIT - There are ways that the good cops have gotten CRIMINALS (NOT THUGS, because there is a difference) arrested with gang and drug raids, but the difference between those and stop and frisk is that in those, innocent civilians can't be targeted as they aren't participating in drugs or gangs, but in stop and frisk, innocents can be targeted...

[TheSubwayStation]

I read it... I don't see your point because it seems to me as if you have a problem with Stop & Frisk, even if it is followed based on what you posted, so I still pose my questions that I posed before and I await answers...Really? I had a problem with the stop and frisk procedure because it seemed to specifically not follow those laws. As far as how to stop crime, I said that there needs to be added police presence and surveillance cameras. Remember, my point is that the current stop and frisk procedures are illegal and violate people's rights. The police shouldn't use an immoral and illegal procedure even if it stops crime. I would like you to answer MY question as to how the current stop and frisk procedures are legal, if you really believe that they are.

 

No, it's not "the people" just some people... Listen we don't live in a perfect world, and cops aren't perfect. The ones criticizing cops fail to acknowledge the crap that cops go through, most importantly that they risk THEIR LIVES for you ungrateful folks EVERYDAY and one decision can mean their life. They can't take anything for granted, period. I don't believe that cops are bad people. They have an incredibly challenging and dangerous job, but in some cases, the policies that they follow should be changed. Additionally, since statistically most people who get stopped and frisked are not guilty, it's not as if the police are in a life-threatening situation each time they stop and frisk a suspicious-looking person.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ugh... Don't put your answers inside of my quote, otherwise I can't quote you...

 

Anywho... If what the cops are doing isn't legal, it would be challenged now rather than folks constantly b*tching and moaning about it being illegal. Last I heard the courts have upheld the law, so take it up with them.

 

As for your second point, that is a completely asinine statement to make. So I guess they're supposed to check stats before they stop folks that look suspicious to them according to you. Is that right??

[TheSubwayStation]

Anywho... If what the cops are doing isn't legal, it would be challenged now rather than folks constantly b*tching and moaning about it being illegal. Last I heard the courts have upheld the law, so take it up with them.

I'll repeat, stop and frisk is legal, but only under certain circumstances. You seem to think that it's legal whenever an officer feels like stopping and frisking someone, under any circumstances. I'd still like to hear YOUR justification for why it's legal.

As for your second point, that is a completely asinine statement to make. So I guess they're supposed to check stats before they stop folks that look suspicious to them according to you. Is that right??

 

What the hell? Let me repeat what I said:

Additionally, since statistically most people who get stopped and frisked are not guilty, it's not as if the police are in a life-threatening situation each time they stop and frisk a suspicious-looking person.

I never said that police should check any stats...I just said that you shouldn't use "the police risk their lives" as an excuse to let them break the law, as stop-and-frisk isn't a very life-threatening situation for officers. Just because I used the word "statistics" in my post doesn't mean that you can twist the word "statistics" into whatever context you want.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'll repeat, stop and frisk is legal, but only under certain circumstances. You seem to think that it's legal whenever an officer feels like stopping and frisking someone, under any circumstances. I'd still like to hear YOUR justification for why it's legal.

 

It seems to me that the law allows cops to use their instinct in determining whether or not a person may or may not be deemed suspicious or dangerous. That's part of their job as cops and they are expected to be able to make difficult decisions quickly and often times under duress.

 

I never said that police should check any stats...I just said that you shouldn't use "the police risk their lives" as an excuse to let them break the law, as stop-and-frisk isn't a very life-threatening situation for officers. Just because I used the word "statistics" in my post doesn't mean that you can twist the word "statistics" into whatever context you want.

 

 

Even so, it's ridiculous for you to assume that cops aren't in "very life-threatening situations" based on some stats. They are stopping strangers which could or could not be armed and DANGEROUS. I'd like to see you make that kind of statement if you were a cop.

[TheSubwayStation]

It seems to me that the law allows cops to use their instinct in determining whether or not a person may or may not be deemed suspicious or dangerous. That's part of their job as cops and they are expected to be able to make difficult decisions quickly and often times under duress.

But does that follow this law?

A reasonable suspicion exists when a reasonable person under the circumstances, would, based upon specific and articulable facts, suspect that a crime has been committed.

 

Even so, it's ridiculous for you to assume that cops aren't in "very life-threatening situations" based on some stats. They are stopping strangers which could or could not be armed and DANGEROUS. I'd like to see you make that kind of statement if you were a cop.

 

What I'm trying to say is that whether or not a police officer stops and frisks someone isn't a life-or-death decision. Therefore, cops aren't under that much pressure to stop and frisk people (so they should be expected to make fewer mistakes in their decisions to do so).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But does that follow this law?

 

You're asking me? If it doesn't then I would imagine this portion of the procedure would be challenged in court.

 

What I'm trying to say is that whether or not a police officer stops and frisks someone isn't a life-or-death decision. Therefore, cops aren't under that much pressure to stop and frisk people (so they should be expected to make fewer mistakes in their decisions to do so).

 

 

What? Mistakes in what?

[Joe]

Fat Al is now demanding that Kelly hold a "summit" on gun violence. How about a summit on savage behavior?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Fat Al is now demanding that Kelly hold a "summit" on gun violence. How about a summit on savage behavior?

 

 

What a joke... Complete denial of the problems that lie within the communities he "represents".

[Joe]

What a joke... Complete denial of the problems that lie within the communities he "represents".

 

 

I'm no fan of ray-ray but he hit the nail on the head with this speech. The reaction by those he criticized only solidified his point.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm no fan of ray-ray but he hit the nail on the head with this speech. The reaction by those he criticized only solidified his point.

 

 

Yep... Notice that no one in this thread has anything to say about that. It's all the cops' fault. They're the ones responsible for all of it.

[Joe]

I think you're onto something. Give them what they want: remove all law enforcement from NYC. Transfer them to places where their services are appreciated.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think you're onto something. Give them what they want: remove all law enforcement from NYC. Transfer them to places where their services are appreciated.

 

 

 

Exactly... So much complaints about cops... Let's get rid of them and the city go to crap. Oh and of course we'll be labeled "racists" and our comments will be "rude" for speaking the truth. Gotta love it. lol I mean what we're mentioning are FACTS, just facts that folks don't want to hear.

[checkmatechamp13]

What? Mistakes in what?

 

 

Mistakes in their decision to stop & frisk.

 

You see some guys standing on a corner. The decision on whether to stop & frisk them isn't going to mean the difference between life & death. If you keep driving, you don't run the risk of being killed.

[Joe]

The inmates are already running the asylum, so why bother trying to maintain order...

 

I find it fascinating that the neighborhoods that output the most opposition towards police also tend to be the places where lawlessness runs rampant. How many people in Whitestone are complaining about the fine men & women of the 109 precinct?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The inmates are already running the asylum, so why bother trying to maintain order...

 

I find it fascinating that the neighborhoods that output the most opposition towards police also tend to be the places where lawlessness runs rampant. How many people in Whitestone are complaining about the fine men & women of the 109 precinct?

 

 

You can include Riverdale in that too. Sometimes when I walk out of my apartment building in the morning there are two cop cars down the street, though they're usually traffic cops but still. The more cops the better. The neighborhood stays safe this way.

[Joe]

The neighborhood also stays safe when people quit mugging, murdering and raping each other. You know, stuff like that. Maybe I was a strange kid growing up, but I always had an inkling that those weren't good things to do. I don't know about you, but my mother didn't have to remind me each morning "alright Joey, now don't go bringing illegal weapons to school today" or "alright Joey, you shouldn't assault someone just because they looked at you the wrong way."

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The neighborhood also stays safe when people quit mugging, murdering and raping each other. You know, stuff like that. Maybe I was a strange kid growing up, but I always had an inkling that those weren't good things to do. I don't know about you, but my mother didn't have to remind me each morning "alright Joey, now don't go bringing illegal weapons to school today" or "alright Joey, you shouldn't assault someone just because they looked at you the wrong way."

 

 

How dare you bring up the concept of folks having decent behavior. It's all the cops fault!! Not only do they abuse everyone's rights (including mine and yours), but they're also the reason why areas like Brownsville is running rampid with crime. All of those "innocent" people being arrested for nothing.

[MHV9218]

Exactly... So much complaints about cops... Let's get rid of them and the city go to crap. Oh and of course we'll be labeled "racists" and our comments will be "rude" for speaking the truth. Gotta love it. lol I mean what we're mentioning are FACTS, just facts that folks don't want to hear.

 

 

Why do you cop-lovers act like the cops are the saviors of the city? They are highly PAID city workers who are legally allowed to beat you up and shoot you if they see fit. It's not like they do it out of the kindness of their heart, they're not all just gonna take their services elsewhere if they get upset. And it's not that we don't wanna hear facts, it's that's we want to hear ACTUAL facts.

 

How dare you bring up the concept of folks having decent behavior. It's all the cops fault!! Not only do they abuse everyone's rights (including mine and yours), but they're also the reason why areas like Brownsville is running rampid with crime. All of those "innocent" people being arrested for nothing.

 

 

Nobody said that the hood attitude is okay. None of us like that, none of us like having to keep eyes in the back of our head at night, not at all. It's not like the criminals are innocent -- in fact nobody has argued that. It's the innocents that are innocent, if you will. The massive failure rate of stop and frisk proves that enough. We want the cops to stop abusing the rights of innocent people, even if that means they let slip one or two criminals. Cause I'll tell you what, if the city had a healthier relationship with its police force and they didn't treat most of us like sh!t, there'd be a lot less crime around.

[Joe]

Why do you cop-lovers act like the cops are the saviors of the city?

 

 

because the perps are ripping the place to shreds.

 

if the city had a healthier relationship with its police force and they didn't treat most of us like sh!t, there'd be a lot less crime around.

 

 

Incorrect. There would be a lot less crime if people could learn how to behave themselves.

[MHV9218]

because the perps are ripping the place to shreds.

 

That has nothing to do with my question. Their job is to arrest criminals, I don't count that as some sort of handy-dandy good will on their part to make my day nicer.

 

Incorrect. There would be a lot less crime if people could learn how to behave themselves.

 

 

Gee, thanks Forest Glen. Let's continue with the no blame whatsoever on police, eh?

[Joe]

Alright then, let 'em run free then. Get rid of all those pesky pensions while you're at it. You could build a hell of a lot of bike lanes with that money.

 

Why would the police be at fault for criminal behavior in the community? In low-crime areas, should we punish the police because they aren't causing enough crime?

[SoSpectacular]

I find it fascinating that the neighborhoods that output the most opposition towards police also tend to be the places where lawlessness runs rampant. How many people in Whitestone are complaining about the fine men & women of the 109 precinct?

 

 

Unmarked police cars seem to be pretty common around that area

[Joe]

Seems to be working out quite nicely for them folks up there then, don't you think?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why do you cop-lovers act like the cops are the saviors of the city? They are highly PAID city workers who are legally allowed to beat you up and shoot you if they see fit. It's not like they do it out of the kindness of their heart, they're not all just gonna take their services elsewhere if they get upset. And it's not that we don't wanna hear facts, it's that's we want to hear ACTUAL facts.

 

No, you want to hear what you want to hear and omit the ugly truths, which is that blacks are doing most of the crime, but let's gloss over that and blame the cops.

 

Nobody said that the hood attitude is okay. None of us like that, none of us like having to keep eyes in the back of our head at night, not at all. It's not like the criminals are innocent -- in fact nobody has argued that. It's the innocents that are innocent, if you will. The massive failure rate of stop and frisk proves that enough. We want the cops to stop abusing the rights of innocent people, even if that means they let slip one or two criminals. Cause I'll tell you what, if the city had a healthier relationship with its police force and they didn't treat most of us like sh!t, there'd be a lot less crime around.

 

 

Could've fooled me because you're the first one to say this. Everyone else has glossed over this and just pointed the finger at the cops... It's all the cops' fault and they're pissed if they were stopped and frisked and were innocent, but that's all the cops' fault even though their own people are causing them to face this sort of harassment due to their terrible conduct.

 

Oh and please don't try to use the relationship factor BS line as to why crime is up. You've got some sick individuals out there... That's why crime is up.

 

 

 

Seems to be working out quite nicely for them folks up there then, don't you think?

 

 

When we have the thugs coming up from Kingsbridge breaking into homes in Fieldston, one night I was walking from the express bus along Johnson Avenue near 235th street and I see a cop car near a parking garage but not immediately in view. Was surprising to see, but made me feel comfortable knowing that they were trying hard to catch the thugs, which they did a few weeks later.