Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

[S78 via Hylan]

@ Threxx: Exactly. Extending the S79 to 59 St would just duplicate the . Bay Ridge is the best area for that route to terminate in.

Edited November 14, 2012 by S78 via Hylan

[Threxx]

NOPE I never made such a suggestion read again. Hint read previous posts

 

Look, enough with the stupid games. If you're going to propose something, just say it!

[qjtransitmaster]

Look, enough with the stupid games. If you're going to propose something, just say it!

Reroute S66 over S57's northern part then reroute S57 to jewett then let S66 serve SIE service rd time with S79 then express to 59th then onward to luthern medical center one can transfer to B11 if they choose. No S79 extension needed to 59th let those wanting the switch to S66 for minus the crap with the . This S66 will link with S74 as well at richmond rd and SIE service rd. Edited November 15, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[Threxx]

Reroute S66 over S57's northern part then reroute S57 to jewett then let S66 serve SIE service rd time with S79 then express to 59th then onward to luthern medical center one can transfer to B11 if they choose. No S79 extension needed to 59th let those wanting the switch to S66 for minus the crap with the

 

And is that NOT extending the S79 to 59th?????

 

And the S66 thing is essentially checkmate's plan without the part to Arlington.

[qjtransitmaster]

And is that NOT extending the S79 to 59th?????

 

And the S66 thing is essentially checkmate's plan without the part to Arlington.

Time as in if your on S79 you transfer at fingerboard rd to go to the from S79. If you want bay ridge transfer to S79 from S66.

[Threxx]

Time as in if your on S79 you transfer at fingerboard rd to go to the from S79. If you want bay ridge transfer to S79 from S66.

 

What?

[checkmatechamp13]

Interesting but there is a saying "A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation." by Mayor of Bogota try following that model.

 

Well, at this moment the rich people in that area aren't using public transportation. Maybe in 50 years, but not now. They'll likely protest a plan to run a route through that area. If you're rich and want to use public transportation, there are other areas you can move to (both on Staten Island and in the rest of the city).

 

What is the desperate need to extend the S79 to 59th? So you miss your connection? Wait for the next train... it's not worth whining about.

 

Nah, TBH I see where people are coming from as far as sending routes to 59th Street for. Neither the or are particularly frequent, and they don't link up well with each other (and the usually doesn't link up well with the S53/79/93). And with the fact that 86th Street isn't that far from 59th Street, I can see why people would propose an idea like that.

 

Reroute S66 over S57's northern part then reroute S57 to jewett then let S66 serve SIE service rd time with S79 then express to 59th then onward to luthern medical center one can transfer to B11 if they choose. No S79 extension needed to 59th let those wanting the switch to S66 for minus the crap with the . This S66 will link with S74 as well at richmond rd and SIE service rd.

 

And what serves Grymes Hill? And please don't tell me a route through Todt Hill.

 

What?

 

He's basically saying that if you're on the S66 and need Bay Ridge, you can transfer to the S79. If you're on the S79 and want quicker service to the , you can transfer to the S66.

[Threxx]

So they don't link up well? Just wait for the next train. It's that simple.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'd pay to see peoples reaction to that comment of ignorance. Threxx you have no idea how long the wait for the is if you want the forget it it will leave you waiting 20+ mins for what point of don't link well do you not get? Those lines SUCK!!!!! HARDER THAN ANYTHING YOU EVER KNOWN TO EXIST!!!!!!

[checkmatechamp13]

I'd pay to see peoples reaction to that comment of ignorance. Threxx you have no idea how long the wait for the is if you want the forget it it will leave you waiting 20+ mins for what point of don't link well do you not get? Those lines SUCK!!!!! HARDER THAN ANYTHING YOU EVER KNOWN TO EXIST!!!!!!

 

 

To be fair, 20 minute waits for the aren't common, but I've gotta admit, I was cracking up when I read this.

[Turbo19]

Regarding a route through Todt Hill, I don't think it wouldn't be used at all in the neighborhood, but it would be very wasteful to allocate resources to a low utilized route or segment. The current set up suffices, for now anyway.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Turbo19

[qjtransitmaster]

Regarding a route through Todt Hill, I don't think it wouldn't be used at all in the neighborhood, but it would be very wasteful to allocate resources to a low utilized route or segment. The current set up suffices, for now anyway.

 

It really isn't for travel within. It's meant to feed people into the regional network as S54 links with S66 (brooklyn reroute) you want manhattan take X10 want dumbo and brooklyn S66 to .

 

I have another alternate plan that is different Instead of S54 via grymes hill S76 gets axed and S54 via ocean terr to replace S76's Vanderbilt segment to St George and S54 will use that route. A Brooklyn route will serve grymes hill en rte to St George B2 via bay parkway super express to SI via SIE service rd then replaces grymes hill extends via ave P and only makes 4 stops on bay parkway bay ridge parkway then subway sta bath ave and cropsey express next stop fingerboard @ SIE service rd then replaces S66 en rte to st George You now have your kings plaza to St George route enjoy.

 

I thought about what you said about an SI rte through todt and grymes hill maybe it won't work so I'd give em a 2 seat connection instead

 

 

 

On a second note tell me about S51's ridership patterns.

Edited November 15, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[Turbo19]

It really isn't for travel within. It's meant to feed people into the regional network as S54 links with S66 (brooklyn reroute) you want manhattan take X10 want dumbo and brooklyn S66 to .

 

I have another alternate plan that is different Instead of S54 via grymes hill S76 gets axed and S54 via ocean terr to replace S76's Vanderbilt segment to St George and S54 will use that route. A Brooklyn route will serve grymes hill en rte to St George B2 via bay parkway super express to SI via SIE service rd then replaces grymes hill extends via ave P and only makes 4 stops on bay parkway bay ridge parkway then subway sta bath ave and cropsey express next stop fingerboard @ SIE service rd then replaces S66 en rte to st George You now have your kings plaza to St George route enjoy.

 

I thought about what you said about an SI rte through todt and grymes hill maybe it won't work so I'd give em a 2 seat connection instead

 

 

 

On a second note tell me about S51's ridership patterns.

 

Ok. Your proposal and effort were fair, I will give you that.

 

Regarding the S51, I don't reside in S.I. so I wouldn't have any first hand experience with the route.

 

I can only assume that it's proably used as a feeder from St. George to South Beach. Additionally, Midland Beach folks may use it as a feeder to SIR & Hylan, especially now that the S79 was implemented. Of course I could be way off, but it doesn't look like many people are riding point to point on the route.

 

Not to put you on the spot, but Checkmate, could you perhaps elaborate on the route, please.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Turbo19

[Threxx]

I'd pay to see peoples reaction to that comment of ignorance. Threxx you have no idea how long the wait for the is if you want the forget it it will leave you waiting 20+ mins for what point of don't link well do you not get? Those lines SUCK!!!!! HARDER THAN ANYTHING YOU EVER KNOWN TO EXIST!!!!!!

 

 

You think you're the only one who's ridden the before? You're not. I've also waited 20 minutes for an . You're not the only one, and what do you do? You wait for the next train.

[checkmatechamp13]

It really isn't for travel within. It's meant to feed people into the regional network as S54 links with S66 (brooklyn reroute) you want manhattan take X10 want dumbo and brooklyn S66 to .

 

I have another alternate plan that is different Instead of S54 via grymes hill S76 gets axed and S54 via ocean terr to replace S76's Vanderbilt segment to St George and S54 will use that route. A Brooklyn route will serve grymes hill en rte to St George B2 via bay parkway super express to SI via SIE service rd then replaces grymes hill extends via ave P and only makes 4 stops on bay parkway bay ridge parkway then subway sta bath ave and cropsey express next stop fingerboard @ SIE service rd then replaces S66 en rte to st George You now have your kings plaza to St George route enjoy.

 

I thought about what you said about an SI rte through todt and grymes hill maybe it won't work so I'd give em a 2 seat connection instead

 

On a second note tell me about S51's ridership patterns.

 

 

What is with this obsession with sending buses along Ocean Terrace?

 

With all that time spent going through the Greenbelt & Todt Hill, you're not going to get anybody on the bus south of the SIE. If you're going to do that, you might as well just cut the S76 back to the SIE (which is the terminal when the S86 is running). At least you cut back on dead milage.

 

And there's no point in sending a route along an indirect route from Brooklyn to St. George via Grymes Hill. If you had to make a St. George-Brooklyn route (which again, I don't think is necessary), you'd be better off sending it directly there, either going along Vanderbilt or Bay Street.

 

Ok. Your proposal and effort were fair, I will give you that.

 

Regarding the S51, I don't reside in S.I. so I wouldn't have any first hand experience with the route.

 

I can only assume that it's proably used as a feeder from St. George to South Beach. Additionally, Midland Beach folks may use it as a feeder to SIR & Hylan, especially now that the S79 was implemented. Of course I could be way off, but it doesn't look like many people are riding point to point on the route.

 

Not to put you on the spot, but Checkmate, could you perhaps elaborate on the route, please.

 

 

Well, TBH, I'm not too familiar with the S51. I've rode it a decent amount of times, but mostly in the Stapleton area.

 

Along Bay Street, I'd say the S76 is used more than the S51. There are a bunch of apartment buildings along Vanderbilt Avenue in Park Hill, whereas the S51 doesn't really have any apartment buildings on its route. It has a few areas where you have people living over stores, and things like that, but nothing big.

 

As far as I know, the only stop south of Victory where you'd see a lot of people boarding southbound buses would be by Tappan Park, which is a commercial area. (It's sort of "Downtown Stapleton" if you will). But it isn't a huge crowd or anything.

 

Then as you go further south into Rosebank, you hit a few commercial pockets mixed with residential areas.

 

At the S53's first stop by Lily Pond Avenue, there's usually a big crowd getting on there. There are a couple of apartment buildings along Lily Pond Avenue, but the crowd looks large enough that there are likely some people who transferred from the S51. How many I can't say because I think there was only one time when we met up with an S51, and I wasn't paying attention to how many people were making the transfer. I'm also not sure how many came from the northbound direction vs. southbound direction.

 

Then Father Capodanno Blvd is a wide boulevard without many stops. Midland Avenue is mostly residential with a few stores mixed in.

 

From what B35's mentioned, buses tend to empty out at Hylan, so there aren't a lot of people riding it out to the SIR. The SIR is infrequent (and the S51 isn't too frequent either), and it's not really timed to meet the ferry (It arrives 12 minutes before the ferry does), so most people probably take the S51 directly to St. George if they can't walk to the SIR. There are a few apartment buildings by the SIR station at Grant City, but I think those people mostly take the SIR.

 

So yeah, that statement is fairly accurate. Most riders are heading to St. George, while some are heading to McClean Avenue for the S53, or to Stapleton. Ridership in general is decent, though.

 

You think you're the only one who's ridden the before? You're not. I've also waited 20 minutes for an . You're not the only one, and what do you do? You wait for the next train.

 

 

As I've said in the other thread, I think it's a little hypocritical to have that stance when you're dealing with trains, but with buses, if the connection is hard to make because a route is unreliable, your first instinct is to create a new route to avoid the connection.

[Threxx]

As I've said in the other thread, I think it's a little hypocritical to have that stance when you're dealing with trains, but with buses, if the connection is hard to make because a route is unreliable, your first instinct is to create a new route to avoid the connection.

 

 

It depends on how well used the connection is. As the and the both use the same trunk, I don't think there's the same volume of transferring as between the B46 and B12. It's not hypocrytical, it depends on degrees.

[checkmatechamp13]

It depends on how well used the connection is. As the and the both use the same trunk, I don't think there's the same volume of transferring as between the B46 and B12. It's not hypocrytical, it depends on degrees.

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The goes express and runs over the Manhattan Bridge, whereas the runs local and goes through the tunnel. I wouldn't exactly say that connection is low-volume.

 

If you have 10 people in each car (a conservative estimate) who transfer from the to the , that's 80 people per train. I highly doubt you'll see 80 people getting off the B12 (one bus) at Utica to transfer to the B46. (That would mean that pretty much the whole bus gets off there)

[Threxx]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The goes express and runs over the Manhattan Bridge, whereas the runs local and goes through the tunnel. I wouldn't exactly say that connection is low-volume.

 

If you have 10 people in each car (a conservative estimate) who transfer from the to the , that's 80 people per train. I highly doubt you'll see 80 people getting off the B12 (one bus) at Utica to transfer to the B46. (That would mean that pretty much the whole bus gets off there)

 

 

There are normally up to 40 people waiting for the B12 there...

 

Let's not hijack this thread....

[checkmatechamp13]

There are normally up to 40 people waiting for the B12 there...

 

Let's not hijack this thread....

 

 

Which is still less than 80.....

 

Look, I wasn't trying to hijack the thread (believe me, I'm not like VG8 bringing up irrelevant stuff), but my whole point is that you can't have that "deal with it" attitude when you're dealing with one area, but then go out of your way to serve another area.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

What is with this obsession with sending buses along Ocean Terrace?

 

With all that time spent going through the Greenbelt & Todt Hill, you're not going to get anybody on the bus south of the SIE. If you're going to do that, you might as well just cut the S76 back to the SIE (which is the terminal when the S86 is running). At least you cut back on dead milage.

 

And there's no point in sending a route along an indirect route from Brooklyn to St. George via Grymes Hill. If you had to make a St. George-Brooklyn route (which again, I don't think is necessary), you'd be better off sending it directly there, either going along Vanderbilt or Bay Street.

 

 

 

Well, TBH, I'm not too familiar with the S51. I've rode it a decent amount of times, but mostly in the Stapleton area.

 

Along Bay Street, I'd say the S76 is used more than the S51. There are a bunch of apartment buildings along Vanderbilt Avenue in Park Hill, whereas the S51 doesn't really have any apartment buildings on its route. It has a few areas where you have people living over stores, and things like that, but nothing big.

 

As far as I know, the only stop south of Victory where you'd see a lot of people boarding southbound buses would be by Tappan Park, which is a commercial area. (It's sort of "Downtown Stapleton" if you will). But it isn't a huge crowd or anything.

 

Then as you go further south into Rosebank, you hit a few commercial pockets mixed with residential areas.

 

At the S53's first stop by Lily Pond Avenue, there's usually a big crowd getting on there. There are a couple of apartment buildings along Lily Pond Avenue, but the crowd looks large enough that there are likely some people who transferred from the S51. How many I can't say because I think there was only one time when we met up with an S51, and I wasn't paying attention to how many people were making the transfer. I'm also not sure how many came from the northbound direction vs. southbound direction.

 

Then Father Capodanno Blvd is a wide boulevard without many stops. Midland Avenue is mostly residential with a few stores mixed in.

 

From what B35's mentioned, buses tend to empty out at Hylan, so there aren't a lot of people riding it out to the SIR. The SIR is infrequent (and the S51 isn't too frequent either), and it's not really timed to meet the ferry (It arrives 12 minutes before the ferry does), so most people probably take the S51 directly to St. George if they can't walk to the SIR. There are a few apartment buildings by the SIR station at Grant City, but I think those people mostly take the SIR.

 

So yeah, that statement is fairly accurate. Most riders are heading to St. George, while some are heading to McClean Avenue for the S53, or to Stapleton. Ridership in general is decent, though.

 

 

 

As I've said in the other thread, I think it's a little hypocritical to have that stance when you're dealing with trains, but with buses, if the connection is hard to make because a route is unreliable, your first instinct is to create a new route to avoid the connection.

 

So S51 south of mclean has alot of riders bound for St george? many go to st george from S51 stops south of mclean ave?

 

You misread my comment shortcut to vanderbuilt is not about ridership its speed to a major point. But I rather you answer my S51 question as I understand your point.

[checkmatechamp13]

So S51 south of mclean has alot of riders bound for St george? many go to st george from S51 stops south of mclean ave?

 

You misread my comment shortcut to vanderbuilt is not about ridership its speed to a major point. But I rather you answer my S51 question as I understand your point.

 

 

I would say so. Father Capodanno Blvd is a pretty wide street, and while I remember hearing about heavy traffic jams due to VZ Bridge traffic, I'm not sure how often that occurs. (I mean, as you probably know, Hylan Blvd gets its jams at times, but that's mostly in the New Dorp/Grant Cty area, not really near the bridge) But if there's no traffic, it should be a fairly quick ride, so I would expect to see a decent amount of people riding out from Midland Beach to St. George.

 

Now north of the SIE, the streets are narrower, so it does slow it down a bit, but I can't really think of any spots where there's heavy traffic (and there aren't a lot of traffic lights along that stretch). Maybe near Hylan Blvd, or in Stapleton a little bit (and then that whole mess by the ferry terminal with the poorly-timed traffic lights and the slow speeds getting into the ramps), but I can't think of anything otherwise.

 

In any case, I'm not seeing your point about Vanderbilt Avenue. Personally, I wouldn't implement any part of that plan, but if you absolutely had to, I would send the S76 along the SIE service road, get on at the Clove Road exit, get off at Slosson Avenue, then make its way to Manor Road and continue down whatever route you want it to take. At least you serve the Todt Hill Houses (that's Castleton Corners, not Todt Hill. Obviously Todt Hill proper doesn't have housing projects), so you're getting some ridership. There's just no point in going along Ocean Terrace.

[qjtransitmaster]

I would say so. Father Capodanno Blvd is a pretty wide street, and while I remember hearing about heavy traffic jams due to VZ Bridge traffic, I'm not sure how often that occurs. (I mean, as you probably know, Hylan Blvd gets its jams at times, but that's mostly in the New Dorp/Grant Cty area, not really near the bridge) But if there's no traffic, it should be a fairly quick ride, so I would expect to see a decent amount of people riding out from Midland Beach to St. George.

 

Now north of the SIE, the streets are narrower, so it does slow it down a bit, but I can't really think of any spots where there's heavy traffic (and there aren't a lot of traffic lights along that stretch). Maybe near Hylan Blvd, or in Stapleton a little bit (and then that whole mess by the ferry terminal with the poorly-timed traffic lights and the slow speeds getting into the ramps), but I can't think of anything otherwise.

 

In any case, I'm not seeing your point about Vanderbilt Avenue. Personally, I wouldn't implement any part of that plan, but if you absolutely had to, I would send the S76 along the SIE service road, get on at the Clove Road exit, get off at Slosson Avenue, then make its way to Manor Road and continue down whatever route you want it to take. At least you serve the Todt Hill Houses (that's Castleton Corners, not Todt Hill. Obviously Todt Hill proper doesn't have housing projects), so you're getting some ridership. There's just no point in going along Ocean Terrace.

 

Interesting I never thought about that routing? S54 reroute can use it. I only suggested Ocean terrance cause it's the most direct route to the target area but your suggestion works too.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

Where's that facepalm?

 

I already said that a route running along Ocean Terrace and then Grymes Hill would get very low ridership. It doesn't matter what's on the other end, whether it's the SI Mall, or Seaview Hospital, or whatever you want. There is absolutely no ridership in Todt Hill, and minimal ridership in Grymes Hill

 

And this is why the S60 had poor ridership, let alone it only ran between Grymes Hill and Emerson Hill.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Santa Fe via Willow]

What about EXPRESS BUS routes operating via &/or serving Todt Hill Rd and/or Ocean Terrace and that vicinity/area/corridor?

 

I know the prospects of ANYTHING on Todt Hill Rd (except buses NOT IN SERVICE heading to &/or from the end/start of their route) are grim to nil/0 due to the rich (& therefore influential) folk$ living up & along there.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

What about EXPRESS BUS routes operating via &/or serving Todt Hill Rd and/or Ocean Terrace and that vicinity/area/corridor?

 

I know the prospects of ANYTHING on Todt Hill Rd (except buses NOT IN SERVICE heading to &/or from the end/start of their route) are grim to nil/0 due to the rich (& therefore influential) folk$ living up & along there.

 

then charge them 100 dollars to mahattan and an extra 50 dollars for transfers