MTA 2013 Ridership Statistics

[NYSubwayBuff]

I'm not saying I disagree with you but a b/o put this in the best way possible when I was talking to him about express buses and other stuff, he said "if you pay more than the standard fare and even if the area is considered undeserved its still a premium product and a luxury to be riding

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not saying I disagree with you but a b/o put this in the best way possible when I was talking to him about express buses and other stuff, he said "if you pay more than the standard fare and even if the area is considered undeserved its still a premium product and a luxury to be riding Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

I know what he's saying and I'm not saying that express buses don't make life easier because they do, but my point is that I think you would have a problem with certain areas of the city not attracting many residents.  Take Co-Op City for example.  I think many would argue that the express bus there is far from a "luxury" and is a necessity.  Surely many people commute to and from that neighborhood via the local buses and the subway, but the BxM7 carries over 900,000 riders annually, so I would have to wonder how viable that neighborhood would be if say the   eliminated the BxM7 tomorrow due to budget cuts.  I guess I don't quite understand how the express bus is the only service considered to be a luxury service while the LIRR and MNRR are also "luxury" services because there are certainly some trains that could be cut, as I see plenty of empty cars on the weekends and during other off-peak hours.  

[NYSubwayBuff]

Idk see if I were the MTA chairman, I think I would cut some express bus services over local bus or mnrr/lirr idk why although I love taking the express bus over the Q ans its much more convenient

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Idk see if I were the MTA chairman, I think I would cut some express bus services over local bus or mnrr/lirr idk why although I love taking the express bus over the Q ans its much more convenient Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

lol... I know why... You're under the impression that for some reason the express bus is less important in comparison to the LIRR/MNRR.  Seeing how remote some neighborhoods are, you would would literally be stranding people or better yet telling them to not bother with transit and drive... Just what we want in our city... More cars of the roads clogging up the streets and causing more smog and pollution.

[NYSubwayBuff]

I'm not saying express bus is less important (staten island xpress comes to mind)it's just that if a bus is carrying less than 8 passengers it should be cut

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not saying express bus is less important (staten island xpress comes to mind)it's just that if a bus is carrying less than 8 passengers it should be cut Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

lol... And what about the empty LIRR and MNRR trains that I ride on?  You're always going to have times when there is light ridership on some services.  That doesn't mean you automatically cut it though.

[NYSubwayBuff]

Ok so let's raise the fares then to keep these trains/ buses running IN CASE somebody may need them. As much anti car as I am if u travel during odd hours please do us all a favo and get a car, mass transit is called mass transit for the MASS amounts of people that would use it if only one person is riding it's not mass transit it's personal transit at taxpayers expense. If you could find at least 5 other people who habitually ride the trip on the pm express runs that carry air, rhe service is justified

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok so let's raise the fares then to keep these trains/ buses running IN CASE somebody may need them. As much anti car as I am if u travel during odd hours please do us all a favo and get a car, mass transit is called mass transit for the MASS amounts of people that would use it if only one person is riding it's not mass transit it's personal transit at taxpayers expense. If you could find at least 5 other people who habitually ride the trip on the pm express runs that carry air, rhe service is justified Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Yeah but this is NYC.  More than half of the residents here don't drive and you're basically telling those people to screw off because they don't matter.  For what it's worth, when I ride express buses late, I see plenty of lightly used local buses, but I wouldn't cut them. Those buses are for folks that may work late or work odd hours.  Why should they be punished because they don't work a 9-5 job like other people?  You also encourage people to force themselves to drive no matter what the circumstances, so that for example, if someone lives in a remote neighborhood and wants to go to the city and have some drinks, now they are either forced to drive or spend money for a pricey taxi ride.  It's been shown that when transportation is cut it means less money for this city as people are less inclined to go out and spend money due to limited transportation options.

[NYSubwayBuff]

But here is the thing we are talking about express buses not local buses I should have made clear that people who ride into the city at odd hours should get a car I don't support cutting local buses or subways under any circumstances as long as they are minimally used, and if someone lives on li or ct and wants to go hey drinks should support small businesses and "get drinks" in ththeir own neighborhood

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

But here is the thing we are talking about express buses not local buses I should have made clear that people who ride into the city at odd hours should get a car I don't support cutting local buses or subways under any circumstances as long as they are minimally used Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Well you should know something then... Remotely located communities around the city have fought for years with the argument that they should not be underserved because they don't live in an area where there are subways or adequate rapid transit services.  Co-Op City receives very late express bus service, and they would not take kindly to your idea that they don't need their service.  Staten Island would also object since they now have express bus service 24/7 via the X1 and have the longest commutes in the country. I really think you should think a bit before you make that comment.  If you discourage people living in certain areas because there isn't a subway or decent rapid transit, those people are going to look elsewhere to live and everyone cannot live in areas where there are subways. Simply not possible.

[NewFlyer 230]

Lowering fares should encourage more people to take the express bus. Wouldn't it be great to know that you can ride the bus for $5. In my opinion I would like to ride on one of express buses but 1 I don't have anywhere to go in the city and 2 I don't want to pay $6 for a bus because I could just take the bus and subway for only $2.50 . Lol you can say I'm discouraged but I heard many people say they rather save money. In my area the QM4 runs every 5-15 minutes but the Q64 runs every 3 minutes with two buses running behind one another because 1st bus gets crowded fast. By the time they reach Forest Hills both buses are crushed while the QM4 has many seats left.

[NYSubwayBuff]

Most people who live in those areas already have cars they are not dumb you know... and if at 2 am in the morning they feel like they want to go get wasted ( which was you example in the first place) they don't need to have a train or bus waiting especially for them

 

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[bobtehpanda]

Lowering fares should encourage more people to take the express bus. Wouldn't it be great to know that you can ride the bus for $5. In my opinion I would like to ride on one of express buses but 1 I don't have anywhere to go in the city and 2 I don't want to pay $6 for a bus because I could just take the bus and subway for only $2.50 . Lol you can say I'm discouraged but I heard many people say they rather save money. In my area the QM4 runs every 5-15 minutes but the Q64 runs every 3 minutes with two buses running behind one another because 1st bus gets crowded fast. By the time they reach Forest Hills both buses are crushed while the QM4 has many seats left.

 

Lowering just the express bus fares smacks of favoritism, particularly when it's the people using local services that are hit disproportionately by fare increases...

 

It's particularly egregious when the cost per rider of express bus service is significantly higher than local bus service, to say nothing of the rock-bottom cost-per-rider of the subway.

[B35 via Church]

I've admitted it plenty of times before, and I've also said that I've used other services that carry air (i.e. late night LIRR trains to NYC).  My point has always been that it isn't just express buses but other services as well, and therefore if folks are going to talk about how some express bus trips carry air, then they should at least admit that this is the case with other services as well.  I wouldn't expect any service to always carry people because there are many reasons why they won't (i.e. weather, time of year - holidays, etc.) If anything I'd say it's perfectly normal.  What irks me is the notion that somehow it's only express buses that have this "phenomenon".

When it comes to the railroad, you have.... However, when it comes to the express bus, You have not admitted it "plenty of times before" on here - and the fact that people should bring up other services that carry air, when a discussion is particularly about the express bus (such as is the case here), again, is nothing more than you not wanting the fact that express buses do carry air, to be talked about.... That reeks of denial....

 

It isn't only express buses that have this so-called phenomenon... It's the fact that there's less of an advocation for buses over subway lines & the fact that the express bus is viewed as a "luxury" - especially over the local bus..... For you to act dumbfounded as to why you (say you) don't understand why they're viewed that way, seems very disingenuous.... Really now, there has not been one person on here that's claimed the express bus is the only mode of transportation in this city that carries air.... To implicate that, is fallacious.

 

Keeping this strictly about surface transportation, there are enough hawk trips on local buses that carry air....

So now let's forget express bus trips that carry air..... Now what....

[NewFlyer 230]

Lowering just the express bus fares smacks of favoritism, particularly when it's the people using local services that are hit disproportionately by fare increases...

 

It's particularly egregious when the cost per rider of express bus service is significantly higher than local bus service, to say nothing of the rock-bottom cost-per-rider of the subway.

I thought it was proportional $2.50 is half of $5.00. When local buses increase its always by 25 cents. When express buses go up it by 50 cents.

[B35 via Church]

I thought it was proportional $2.50 is half of $5.00. When local buses increase its always by 25 cents. When express buses go up it by 50 cents.

Not sure what your point is here, but the express bus fare is $6.00, not $5.00.....

[bobtehpanda]

I thought it was proportional $2.50 is half of $5.00. When local buses increase its always by 25 cents. When express buses go up it by 50 cents.

 

The express bus fare was $5.00 long before the local bus fare was $2.50...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When it comes to the railroad, you have.... However, when it comes to the express bus, You have not admitted it "plenty of times before" on here - and the fact that people should bring up other services that carry air, when a discussion is particularly about the express bus (such as is the case here), again, is nothing more than you not wanting the fact that express buses do carry air, to be talked about.... That reeks of denial....

 

It isn't only express buses that have this so-called phenomenon... It's the fact that there's less of an advocation for buses over subway lines & the fact that the express bus is viewed as a "luxury" - especially over the local bus..... For you to act dumbfounded as to why you (say you) don't understand why they're viewed that way, seems very disingenuous.... Really now, there has not been one person on here that's claimed the express bus is the only mode of transportation in this city that carries air.... To implicate that, is fallacious.

 

Keeping this strictly about surface transportation, there are enough hawk trips on local buses that carry air....

So now let's forget express bus trips that carry air..... Now what....

1.  I don't think it's necessary for me to state that because I've always stated that express bus service is watched very carefully by the , and that if ridership is indeed so poor that trips would be cut, and we've seen that with numerous express bus lines across the city.  That's why I don't think it's necessary for people to keep yelling about the cutting of "fat" if you will because the reviews express bus ridership more than any other service (every 3 months).  Essentially, therefore, one could argue that because of this, there is no need to yell about cutting it because of the (MTA)'s vigilance.  They always list fiscal responsibility as being the reason for any cuts that they make to express bus service.  At the same time, I do think that there needs to be a balance.  I feel like some folks on here clamor about cutting express bus service every time they see an empty bus, which is not necessarily always indicative of ridership on a line.  Ridership fluctuates on ALL services, and that's just the way it is, and I think it's foolish to say I saw an empty bus carrying air, or I see a bus with a few riders on it so it should be cut.  The to some degree is supposed to be encouraging ridership.  Anytime you cut service on any service, you discourage it and alienate riders and there's no question about that.  Furthermore, I think we will be seeing fewer riders on certain express bus lines due to changing demographics and the increasing cost of the express bus relative to the amount of time saved, so in short inevitably there will be more cuts as time goes on.

 

2.  Well you see that's my whole issue with the situation... I think people are very misinformed about the idea of cutting bus service in general (local or express) and just having people ride the subways.  I don't think our subway system can handle it.  I use the subway almost daily and see how poor subway service is in terms of handling crowds, and all it takes is a small hiccup for service to go array. Yes, I'm advocate for bus service but also all services in general. There needs to be a balance of ridership across all services in the city.

[NewFlyer 230]

Not sure what your point is here, but the express bus fare is $6.00, not $5.00.....

No really like I just did not make a post on the last page about how the express fare is $6. Its on every bus in the city. All I was saying that maybe reducing the express bus fare to $5.00 might attract more people especially on route like the QM21 or X64.

[bobtehpanda]

No really like I just did not make a post on the last page about how the express fare is $6. Its on every bus in the city. All I was saying that maybe reducing the express bus fare to $5.00 might attract more people especially on route like the QM21 or X64.

 

But the question is, why should we lower express bus ride costs when we're not lowering them for local riders? Are express bus riders now more important than local bus riders, who are generally poorer? It's not as if express bus service costs less than local bus service on a per-rider basis (because it isn't, not by a long shot).

 

Of course lowering the fare is going to attract more riders. Making the express bus free would also do that, but just because we can increase ridership by cutting a single set of fares doesn't mean we should.

[B35 via Church]

1.  I don't think it's necessary for me to state that because I've always stated that express bus service is watched very carefully by the , and that if ridership is indeed so poor that trips would be cut, and we've seen that with numerous express bus lines across the city.  That's why I don't think it's necessary for people to keep yelling about the cutting of "fat" if you will because the reviews express bus ridership more than any other service (every 3 months).  Essentially, therefore, one could argue that because of this, there is no need to yell about cutting it because of the (MTA)'s vigilance.  They always list fiscal responsibility as being the reason for any cuts that they make to express bus service.  At the same time, I do think that there needs to be a balance.  I feel like some folks on here clamor about cutting express bus service every time they see an empty bus, which is not necessarily always indicative of ridership on a line.  Ridership fluctuates on ALL services, and that's just the way it is, and I think it's foolish to say I saw an empty bus carrying air, or I see a bus with a few riders on it so it should be cut.  The to some degree is supposed to be encouraging ridership.  Anytime you cut service on any service, you discourage it and alienate riders and there's no question about that.  Furthermore, I think we will be seeing fewer riders on certain express bus lines due to changing demographics and the increasing cost of the express bus relative to the amount of time saved, so in short inevitably there will be more cuts as time goes on.

 

2.  Well you see that's my whole issue with the situation... I think people are very misinformed about the idea of cutting bus service in general (local or express) and just having people ride the subways.  I don't think our subway system can handle it.  I use the subway almost daily and see how poor subway service is in terms of handling crowds, and all it takes is a small hiccup for service to go array. Yes, I'm advocate for bus service but also all services in general. There needs to be a balance of ridership across all services in the city.

1. Just as much as you don't feel it's necessary for you to state, it also isn't necessary for others to talk about empty trips on other modes of transportation before somehow bringing up those that are so on an express bus (which was the implication with that).... That's what I have a problem with, not the rest of what you stated here.... It's gives off the message that empty express bus trips should be spared at all costs, while in the meantime, it's okay to talk about empty trips on other modes & have them cut before empty trips on some express bus....

 

2. Those that want express bus service axed at all costs do tend to be pro-subway, but they aren't necessarily anti-(local) bus....In other words, the ones going cut _____ express route aren't the ones going cut _____ local route..... Again, it goes back to that whole thing about being viewed as a luxury - really, it's class bias (which can be argued from either side of the equation)....

 

Your whole mentioning of balance in this latest reply, is what I have been bringing up to BrooklynBus in prior posts (back when he was on that hierarchy tip, talking about tryna put ppl. on rails first"... I've said it then & I'll say it now.... That's a large part of the problem with our mass transit system now; the deterring of bus usage (well, minus SBS & routes that serve JFK & LGA) & the advocation of subway usage.... Then the MTA wanna boast about last year's subway usage reaching a 65 year high... I heard that being brought up on all the local news outlets & I'm sittin there sayin, yeah, well it should high; being how they done slashed bus service so much over the years....

 

....local OR express.

 

No really like I just did not make a post on the last page about how the express fare is $6. Its on every bus in the city.

All I was saying that maybe reducing the express bus fare to $5.00 might attract more people especially on route like the QM21 or X64.

Again, the point you were trying to convey was not very clear....

 

Furthermore, how could you have thought it was proportional, when the fare on the express bus was not 5 bucks when the local bus & subway fare was 2.50... Since you made a post on the last page "about how the express fare is $6".....

 

The local bus & subway fare jumped up to 2.50 march of last year....

The express bus fare was $5 from the middle of '05 up until the end of 2010.....

 

The last time the fare had that proportion you're bringing up (of double), was when the local bus & subway fare was $2, and the express bus fare was still $4, from back around '03, til 2005 (when the express bus fare went up a whole dollar).... When they raised the "base" fare to 2.25, double that would be 4.50... The fare on the express was never that amount.....

 

If your point was solely regarding reducing the express bus fare to $5, you didn't need to bring up that whole bit about proportion.... Wasn't necessary.... Neither was that little attitude....

But the question is, why should we lower express bus ride costs when we're not lowering them for local riders? Are express bus riders now more important than local bus riders, who are generally poorer? It's not as if express bus service costs less than local bus service on a per-rider basis (because it isn't, not by a long shot).

 

Of course lowering the fare is going to attract more riders. Making the express bus free would also do that, but just because we can increase ridership by cutting a single set of fares doesn't mean we should.

What's ironic about this whole thing is that there is a bit of a push to actually raise the express bus fare to keep (as VG8 would call em) non-regulars off the buses....

 

Anyway, now that you allude to it, Who was it on here that was advocating that public transit should be free again?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. Just as much as you don't feel it's necessary for you to state, it also isn't necessary for others to talk about empty trips on other modes of transportation before somehow bringing up those that are so on an express bus (which was the implication with that).... That's what I have a problem with, not the rest of what you stated here.... It's gives off the message that empty express bus trips should be spared at all costs, while in the meantime, it's okay to talk about empty trips on other modes & have them cut before empty trips on some express bus....

 

2. Those that want express bus service axed at all costs do tend to be pro-subway, but they aren't necessarily anti-(local) bus....In other words, the ones going cut _____ express route aren't the ones going cut _____ local route..... Again, it goes back to that whole thing about being viewed as a luxury - really, it's class bias (which can be argued from either side of the equation)....

 

Your whole mentioning of balance in this latest reply, is what I have been bringing up to BrooklynBus in prior posts (back when he was on that hierarchy tip, talking about tryna put ppl. on rails first"... I've said it then & I'll say it now.... That's a large part of the problem with our mass transit system now; the deterring of bus usage (well, minus SBS & routes that serve JFK & LGA) & the advocation of subway usage.... Then the MTA wanna boast about last year's subway usage reaching a 65 year high... I heard that being brought up on all the local news outlets & I'm sittin there sayin, yeah, well it should high; being how they done slashed bus service so much over the years....

 

....local OR express.

You see when I lived in Europe we had different "tiers" of service.  "Luxury services" were marketed just the way non-luxury transportation services were because the goal was to cater to different people in different economic classes to get people out of their cars and on public transit.  I think it's a good strategy and that's why for example, I've also been supportive of fast ferry service, which is another service that many on here have called for being axed.  Yes, it's also highly subsidized but if people are going to use it and gets people out of their cars why not?  The alternative is to have more people in their cars and more pollution and traffic chaos which doesn't help anyone in the long run.  Some on here have the attitude of well people can just use the subway and the reality is not everyone can or wants to use it for whatever their reason are so there should be options made available.

[qjtransitmaster]

No really like I just did not make a post on the last page about how the express fare is $6. Its on every bus in the city. All I was saying that maybe reducing the express bus fare to $5.00 might attract more people especially on route like the QM21 or X64.

X64 gained riders. Qm21 is a lost cause

[NewFlyer 230]

I just said why I would lower the price. It will be so that more people might give the express bus a chance. I was hoping that by doing that it may attract riderships especially on the lowers used ones.

 

@bobtehpanda--- The local bus fare is not that bad. $2.50 is a fair price compared to the express which is $6. If I had a choice I would rider ride the local/LTD to the train station and go to the city like that, then having to spend $12 a day. People just don't have that. That's why routes like the QM21 and QM18 are not going to improve because of the people who live in the area they operate in. I hope this is clearer.

[qjtransitmaster]

I just said why I would lower the price. It will be so that more people might give the express bus a chance. I was hoping that by doing that it may attract riderships especially on the lowers used ones.

 

@bobtehpanda--- The local bus fare is not that bad. $2.50 is a fair price compared to the express which is $6. If I had a choice I would rider ride the local/LTD to the train station and go to the city like that, then having to spend $12 a day. People just don't have that. That's why routes like the QM21 and QM18 are not going to improve because of the people who live in the area they operate in. I hope this is clearer.

Same argument can be made for LIRR city fares. Why not lower it for the same reason express bus fare should be lowered. Express bus riders tend to be daily ones with xbus plus $55 weekly passes so the actual fare paid on express buses is much lower than the pay per ride indicates. Plus very few would entertain a bus that runs every 30 minutes at rush hour in NYC. When you have LTD stop buses running to the subway on 5 to 3 min headways and not just the subway but to an EXPRESS subway to boot. This ain't Boston where express buses leave the trains in the dust. Frequency of competition will always win vs qm21&18. The is very fast good luck competing with that. It's the same reason why in Westchester the 77 is losing ridership the superior frequency of the competition and speed makes for an easy choice. I used to be obsessed with fast buses till I realized fast buses are sometimes redundant to fast trains.