B35 via Church Posted March 26, 2014 Share #51 Posted March 26, 2014 Not necessarily... Those BxM10 trips during the week can carry alright back to the city because of Albert Einstein/Montefiore. A lot of those workers use those express bus. I took a 16:30 or 17:00 trip back from a co-workers' house in Morris Park and that bus was packed. The weekends however is when trips can be light. I'm talking about much later than 5pm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 26, 2014 Share #52 Posted March 26, 2014 I'm talking about much later than 5pm..... Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00, but they're still needed. In any event, with the way Montefiore is expanding in Morris Park, ridership past 17:00 to Manhattan may go up soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 26, 2014 Share #53 Posted March 26, 2014 Not necessarily... Those BxM10 trips during the week can carry alright back to the city because of Albert Einstein/Montefiore. A lot of those workers use those express bus. I took a 16:30 or 17:00 trip back from a co-workers' house in Morris Park and that bus was packed. The weekends however is when trips can be light. Ahem Bxm10 has high ridership and isn't your average express bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 26, 2014 Share #54 Posted March 26, 2014 Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00, but they're still needed. In any event, with the way Montefiore is expanding in Morris Park, ridership past 17:00 to Manhattan may go up soon enough. Now you're contradicting yourself then again you have an emotional attachment to NYC express buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 26, 2014 Share #55 Posted March 26, 2014 Ahem Bxm10 has high ridership and isn't your average express bus. It does but the demographics are also changing in Morris Park which probably explains the drop in ridership to some extent. Now you're contradicting yourself then again you have an emotional attachment to NYC express buses. No, not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 27, 2014 Share #56 Posted March 27, 2014 Well, anyways, greatest fluctuations of ridership in each borough for the local buses Weekdays: Bronx: MTA Bus: Bx23 (-12.5%) NYCT: Bx15 (+21.6%) & Bx33 (-2.0%) Manhattan: M21(+13.0%) & M22 (-12.5%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: B103 (+7.0%) NYCT: B48 (+44.9%) & B61 (-10.4%) Queens: MTA Bus: Q67 (+17.6%) & Q21 (-19.7%) NYCT: Q42 (19.9%) & Q85 (-4.0%) Staten Island: S79 (+8.4%) & S55 (-5.5%) Saturdays & Sundays: Bronx: MTA Bus: Bx23 (-5.6%) NYCT: Bx24 (+29.6%) & Bx33 (-5.1%) Manhattan: M1 (+203.5%) and M3 (-16.1%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: B103 (+15.8%) and B100 (-1.8%) NYCT: B48 (+85.4%) & B67 (-28.4%) Queens: MTA Bus: Q67 (+ 17.6%) and Q21 (-16.9%) NYCT: Q24 (+14.4%) and Q1 (-9.0%) Staten Island: S46: (+6.1%) and S51 (-11.1%) Annual: Bronx: MTA Bus: Bx23 (-10.2%) NYCT: Bx34 (22.3%) and Bx33 (-0.8%) Queens: MTA Bus: Q104 (+23.2%) & Q21 (-18.2%) NYCT: Q42 (+22.3%) & Q84 (-2.4%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: B103 (10.0%) NYCT: B48 (+52.9%) & B35 (-7.1%) Manhattan: M21 (+29.2) and M22 (-11.1%) Staten Island S76/86 (+24.3) & S55 (-3.6%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 27, 2014 Share #57 Posted March 27, 2014 Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00, but they're still needed. In any event, with the way Montefiore is expanding in Morris Park, ridership past 17:00 to Manhattan may go up soon enough. The buses being needed after 5pm or not, is not my point.... I'm not insinuating BxM10's be cut after some 5pm. Stop it. Now you're contradicting yourself then again you have an emotional attachment to NYC express buses. He's not contradicting himself.... By him saying "Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00", he's (generally) concurring with the point I was making.... Although by me saying "a lot of those later [bxM10] trips carry air, or pretty close to it", you'd think one would assume I'm talking about trips after the PM rush.... Where "5pm" came from in this discussion, you'd have to ask him..... Well, anyways, greatest fluctuations of ridership in each borough for the local buses Weekdays: Bronx: MTA Bus: Bx23 (-12.5%) NYCT: Bx15 (+21.6%) & Bx33 (-2.0%) Manhattan: M21(+13.0%) & M22 (-12.5%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: B103 (+7.0%) NYCT: B48 (+44.9%) & B61 (-10.4%) Queens: MTA Bus: Q67 (+17.6%) & Q21 (-19.7%) NYCT: Q42 (19.9%) & Q85 (-4.0%) Staten Island: S79 (+8.4%) & S55 (-5.5%) Saturdays & Sundays: Bronx: MTA Bus: Bx23 (-5.6%) NYCT: Bx24 (+29.6%) & Bx33 (-5.1%) Manhattan: M1 (+203.5%) and M3 (-16.1%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: B103 (+15.8%) and B100 (-1.8%) NYCT: B48 (+85.4%) & B67 (-28.4%) Queens: MTA Bus: Q67 (+ 17.6%) and Q21 (-16.9%) NYCT: Q24 (+14.4%) and Q1 (-9.0%) Staten Island: S46: (+6.1%) and S51 (-11.1%) Annual: Bronx: MTA Bus: Bx23 (-10.2%) NYCT: Bx34 (22.3%) and Bx33 (-0.8%) Queens: MTA Bus: Q104 (+23.2%) & Q21 (-18.2%) NYCT: Q42 (+22.3%) & Q84 (-2.4%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: B103 (10.0%) NYCT: B48 (+52.9%) & B35 (-7.1%) Manhattan: M21 (+29.2) and M22 (-11.1%) Staten Island S76/86 (+24.3) & S55 (-3.6%) ehh... This is only for weekdays... - Well the areas on both halves of the M21 are growing rapidly, so that explains the M21.... - The declining of ridership of the M22.. I think the west side construction is hampering the route, to the point where the folks that need it on the eastern portion of the route are getting fed up with it... - The Bx23, I don't have a clue why ridership dropped like that.... - M3 loss in usage could be due to the M1 restoration, IDK... - B48 increase, self-explanatory.... Had no business terminating at Fulton. - B61 decrease... I think bustime has actually deterred folks from taking this route... - Would like to know the deal w/ the Q42's increase in usage.... Good for that route. - S55... Are the schoolkids still keeping this route alive... lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 27, 2014 Share #58 Posted March 27, 2014 The buses being needed after 5pm or not, is not my point.... I'm not insinuating BxM10's be cut after some 5pm. Stop it. He's not contradicting himself.... By him saying "Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00", he's (generally) concurring with the point I was making.... Although by me saying "a lot of those later [bxM10] trips carry air, or pretty close to it", you'd think one would assume I'm talking about trips after the PM rush.... Where "5pm" came from in this discussion, you'd have to ask him..... ehh... This is only for weekdays... - Well the areas on both halves of the M21 are growing rapidly, so that explains the M21.... - The declining of ridership of the M22.. I think the west side construction is hampering the route, to the point where the folks that need it on the eastern portion of the route are getting fed up with it... - The Bx23, I don't have a clue why ridership dropped like that.... - M3 loss in usage could be due to the M1 restoration, IDK... - B48 increase, self-explanatory.... Had no business terminating at Fulton. - B61 decrease... I think bustime has actually deterred folks from taking this route... - Would like to know the deal w/ the Q42's increase in usage.... Good for that route. - S55... Are the schoolkids still keeping this route alive... lol.... lol about B61 true. Bx23 well maybe people are simply using Q50s and other buses that come first bx23 doesn't have much to itself which explains the drop. It's only a matter of time before S55 gets merged with other lines at the rate it's going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 27, 2014 Share #59 Posted March 27, 2014 The buses being needed after 5pm or not, is not my point.... I'm not insinuating BxM10's be cut after some 5pm. Stop it. When you say that they "carry air" you seem to insinuate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2014 Share #60 Posted March 29, 2014 When you say that they "carry air" you seem to insinuate that. This paranoia of yours is something else.... Just as easy as you accuse me of insinuating, I'll accuse you of reaching.... Fact of the matter is, my comment didn't have squat to do with cutting trips off the BxM10.... Period. lol about B61 true. Bx23 well maybe people are simply using Q50s and other buses that come first bx23 doesn't have much to itself which explains the drop. It's only a matter of time before S55 gets merged with other lines at the rate it's going Perhaps, but I'm not so sure that's it either.... The increase with the Q50 is highly likely the folks riding b/w E. Tremont (av) & Queens (intra-Queens travel, inclusive).... Can't say w/ any certainty that co-op to PBP usage on the Q50 done increased, with the waning usage of the Bx23.... I think something else is going on out in co-op w/ the 23... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 29, 2014 Share #61 Posted March 29, 2014 Here's the greatest fluctuations of ridership in each borough for the express buses Weekdays: Bronx: MTA Bus: BxM7 (-7.8%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: BM3 (-12.9%) NYCT: X27/37 (+3.6%) and X28/38 (-3.6%) Queens: MTA Bus: QM1 (+7.5%) and QM21 (-10.6%) NYCT: X63 (-5.8%) Staten Island: X9 (+12.0%) and X3 (-10.4%) Saturdays & Sundays: Bronx: MTA Bus: BxM11 (+4.6%) and BxM6 (-10.3%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: BM3 (-30.8%) Queens: MTA Bus: QM2 (+5.5%) and QM15 (-2.1%) Staten Island: X17 (+36.3%) and X10 (-2.8%) Annual: Bronx: MTA Bus: BxM10 (-6.7%) Queens: MTA Bus: QM17 (+11.7%) and QM21 (-8.9%) NYCT: X64 (+1.4%) and X63 (-3.9%) Brooklyn: MTA Bus: BM3 (-13.1%) NYCT: X27/37 (+10.1%) and X28/38 (-1.7%) Staten Island X9 (+14.3%) and X3 (-8.6%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2014 Share #62 Posted March 29, 2014 Yeah.... Just looking at the weekend numbers for BM's 1-4 are disgusting enough..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 29, 2014 Share #63 Posted March 29, 2014 Yeah.... Just looking at the weekend numbers for BM's 1-4 are disgusting enough..... I'm kinda surprised the BM5 didn't go down a lot, because I've been seeing emptier buses for a while now (specifically Saturdays). The BM1-3 I'm surprised at, specifically the BM3, given how that has increased in ridership over the years compared to the others (1 and 2). Since the BM division gets major scheduling cuts about every 2 year period, this might end up affecting the BM's detrimentally (which honest to god, I wish that doesn't happen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted March 29, 2014 Share #64 Posted March 29, 2014 My points on this topic - On the Bx23/Q50 discussion I am not shocked by these stats as a rider of both routes. Nearly every SB Q50 comes into Bartow/Edson packed during the AM Rush where the 23 (much more frequent) comes in SRO at worst. Although the Bx23 is more frequent on paper the different orientations it has in Co-op (4-3-2-1 or 1-2-3-4 with Sec 5 only thrown in) actually frustrates some riders and possibly pushes riders to the Q50 which runs through all sections. To back this assumption the Bx23 is the only route serving Co-op City to have lost ridership. - Bx12 ridership increased again (nearly 47,700 per weekday this year) and has increased in each of the 5 years that +SBS has been in place on the route. I'm expecting another increase this year with the new mall opening up at Bay Plaza and wouldn't be shocked if it passed 50,000 per weekday this year or next. The question is how much does +SBS has to do with this growth given that ridership has dropped for M15 and B44. Also the Bx12 almost equaled B46 this year so maybe next year we're talking about Bx12 as the runner-up to M15 for busiest NYC route. - On the B44 note it moved down nearly 2,000 per day.That's a lot for a route that now has +SBS which is meant to improve commutes. For the average weekday Bx1/2 takes the 5th spot usually held by B44. Curious as to the decrease here - M15 usage went down more than 3,000 per day. It's still the busiest route in NYC and will be for a very long time but drops like that are not expected because demand is so high. Also curious on this one - I was expecting a bigger increase in Bx15 ridership since it basically absorbed the Bx55. I'm pretty sure Bx41 lost ridership in the portion south of Fordham given the slight nature of it's increase. Part of that route also absorbed the Bx55. - WTF is going on with the Bx39? that route is increasing like no one's business. - Q44/Q58 swap places on top of the Queens list. Q44 dropped slightly while Q58 increased so it's back to #1 in Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 29, 2014 Share #65 Posted March 29, 2014 This paranoia of yours is something else.... Just as easy as you accuse me of insinuating, I'll accuse you of reaching.... Fact of the matter is, my comment didn't have squat to do with cutting trips off the BxM10.... Period. There's no paranoia on my part at all... You said what you said for a reason (whatever that reason is). Doesn't mean that you want trips cut, but for whatever reason, you're under the impression that after certain times the BxM10 doesn't carry well. Since I see the route a lot I'd disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share #66 Posted March 29, 2014 At this rate the BM express routes may only run Weekdays only with the BM5 in great danger of being eliminated. The QM16 and QM17 usage is not that great either. That's why it was introduced to Woodhaven Blvd service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted March 29, 2014 Share #67 Posted March 29, 2014 The buses being needed after 5pm or not, is not my point.... I'm not insinuating BxM10's be cut after some 5pm. Stop it. He's not contradicting himself.... By him saying "Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00", he's (generally) concurring with the point I was making.... Although by me saying "a lot of those later [bxM10] trips carry air, or pretty close to it", you'd think one would assume I'm talking about trips after the PM rush.... Where "5pm" came from in this discussion, you'd have to ask him..... ehh... This is only for weekdays... - Well the areas on both halves of the M21 are growing rapidly, so that explains the M21.... - The declining of ridership of the M22.. I think the west side construction is hampering the route, to the point where the folks that need it on the eastern portion of the route are getting fed up with it... - The Bx23, I don't have a clue why ridership dropped like that.... - M3 loss in usage could be due to the M1 restoration, IDK... - B48 increase, self-explanatory.... Had no business terminating at Fulton. - B61 decrease... I think bustime has actually deterred folks from taking this route... - Would like to know the deal w/ the Q42's increase in usage.... Good for that route. - S55... Are the schoolkids still keeping this route alive... lol.... On the M22 issue...keep in mind that the M9 also duplicates most of the western end of the route now, as it runs to Battery Park City. I could see the B61's ridership decreasing even more with the addition of those stops on the B103---people from Park Slope on the B61 going downtown might transfer to the B103 at 9 Street. On the S55, ever since it was the S115, that route existed primarily to transport students to and from Tottenville High School. That area is otherwise car-centric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2014 Share #68 Posted March 29, 2014 There's no paranoia on my part at all... You said what you said for a reason (whatever that reason is). Doesn't mean that you want trips cut, but for whatever reason, you're under the impression that after certain times the BxM10 doesn't carry well. Since I see the route a lot I'd disagree with that. Not only is there paranoia on your part, you're double talking on top of it now.... What other reason was there for you to tell me they're still needed, if you didn't perhaps think I wanted the later trips that carry air, cut? It's not enough that I'm blatantly saying I don't want trips cut, but here you are insinuating that I DO want trips cut; talking about "whatever that reason is"..... See, you're still fixated on there being a "reason", or some ulterior motive as to why I brought up those trips carrying air.... It's not enough that I'm pointing out an observation (it's not an "impression", like I'm somehow making this up, or blindly guessing) with an express bus - Oh no, I must want them cut because I said I see buses carrying air on them.... That's paranoid thinking right there. The double talking comes in when you yourself come on here saying "Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00", and to now tell me that I'm under the impression that after certain times the BxM10 doesn't carry well, and how you disagree with that, since you see the route a lot...... With such a disagreement, you're implicating that the BxM10 carries well - regardless of when it runs.... Which is flat out bullshit.... If that were the case, the BxM10 would, by far and large be the most utilized express bus route in the city.... I don't care much for being a stickler for stats, but these stats here don't even remotely support such an implication.... I mean, come on now with this..... You have long let your blind faith for express buses skew your logic on this forum.... I get your affinity for the express bus, but sometimes you take this pro-express bus bit way too far.... I'm kinda surprised the BM5 didn't go down a lot, because I've been seeing emptier buses for a while now (specifically Saturdays). The BM1-3 I'm surprised at, specifically the BM3, given how that has increased in ridership over the years compared to the others (1 and 2). Since the BM division gets major scheduling cuts about every 2 year period, this might end up affecting the BM's detrimentally (which honest to god, I wish that doesn't happen). It's already happening, hence the large losses in ridership... You see how much they done took away from saturday service..... Anyone that sees just what's going on/been paying attention with this agency can't honestly believe things are gonna get better, service-wise... So as much as it sucks to come to grips to, honesty to god won't spare losses in service to the BM's...... I'd say the BM5 usage has been rather stagnant; I didn't expect it to lose too much riders..... Especially coming from a small(er) sample size, it would have been more catastrophic to have the few amt's of riders that route garners, to have lost mad riders.... On the M22 issue...keep in mind that the M9 also duplicates most of the western end of the route now, as it runs to Battery Park City. I could see the B61's ridership decreasing even more with the addition of those stops on the B103---people from Park Slope on the B61 going downtown might transfer to the B103 at 9 Street. On the S55, ever since it was the S115, that route existed primarily to transport students to and from Tottenville High School. That area is otherwise car-centric. - True, but what I'm getting is that the eastern half of the route (M22) is where the vast majority of ridership was likely lost - since that's the portion of the route that's always gotten way more usage.... Those are the riders I'm saying that are more affected by slower/delayed trips coming from the west (b/w say, BPC & Chambers on the ).... - Sure, if current B61 riders are that fed up with crowding (NB, by time it reaches 4th av... SB, by time it hits Atlantic [shit, sometimes buses are crushloaded at the terminal/first pick-up stop]).... What it is, is that they're trying to make the B103 more efficient by drawing more riders on the northern portion of the route (north of the junction)...... Not sure how many B61 riders would abandon it for the B103, but in general, I'm inclined to agree with the assertion.... - S55, yeah, of course..... At this rate the BM express routes may only run Weekdays only with the BM5 in great danger of being eliminated. The QM16 and QM17 usage is not that great either. That's why it was introduced to Woodhaven Blvd service. - That just might be what they want to accomplish w/ the BM's... They did it with the x27 & x28 (although x27 weekend service was restored)..... Brooklyn express bus usage is underrated IMO....I mean, it tells you something when you actually have Park Slope & Carroll Gardens (don't think Cobble Hill is included, but those folks probably done joined the bandwagon too) clamoring for express bus service... - Qm17 usage is only gonna grow, with ppl. still moving out to Arverne & what not.... Nothing staggering though, being that the Rockaways in general will never be as dense as mainland Queens..... - Qm16 usage is gonna stay stagnant.... No type of communal developments west of the wye, meaning you're gonna get the same "regulars" taking that route, with very little-to-no variation in annual ridership.... I've seen at least one person on here suggest having it sent over to Bigot (Breezy) Point, but I cannot see public transportation being welcome out there..... I still say they should've left the Qm16 ending at B 147th (instead of sending over to Riis Beach parking lot/Bathhouse area), but that's w/e... Wonder if those extra 8 people the 16 gained, are infact Breezies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 29, 2014 Share #69 Posted March 29, 2014 Not only is there paranoia on your part, you're double talking on top of it now.... What other reason was there for you to tell me they're still needed, if you didn't perhaps think I wanted the later trips that carry air, cut? It's not enough that I'm blatantly saying I don't want trips cut, but here you are insinuating that I DO want trips cut; talking about "whatever that reason is"..... See, you're still fixated on there being a "reason", or some ulterior motive as to why I brought up those trips carrying air.... It's not enough that I'm pointing out an observation (it's not an "impression", like I'm somehow making this up, or blindly guessing) with an express bus - Oh no, I must want them cut because I said I see buses carrying air on them.... That's paranoid thinking right there. The double talking comes in when you yourself come on here saying "Well for that matter most express buses don't carry that well to the city after 17:00", and to now tell me that I'm under the impression that after certain times the BxM10 doesn't carry well, and how you disagree with that, since you see the route a lot...... With such a disagreement, you're implicating that the BxM10 carries well - regardless of when it runs.... Which is flat out bullshit.... If that were the case, the BxM10 would, by far and large be the most utilized express bus route in the city.... I don't care much for being a stickler for stats, but these stats here don't even remotely support such an implication.... I mean, come on now with this..... You have long let your blind faith for express buses skew your logic on this forum.... I get your affinity for the express bus, but sometimes you take this pro-express bus bit way too far.... It's already happening, hence the large losses in ridership... You see how much they done took away from saturday service..... Anyone that sees just what's going on/been paying attention with this agency can't honestly believe things are gonna get better, service-wise... So as much as it sucks to come to grips to, honesty to god won't spare losses in service to the BM's...... I'd say the BM5 usage has been rather stagnant; I didn't expect it to lose too much riders..... Especially coming from a small(er) sample size, it would have been more catastrophic to have the few amt's of riders that route garners, to have lost mad riders.... - True, but what I'm getting is that the eastern half of the route (M22) is where the vast majority of ridership was likely lost - since that's the portion of the route that's always gotten way more usage.... Those are the riders I'm saying that are more affected by slower/delayed trips coming from the west (b/w say, BPC & Chambers on the ).... - Sure, if current B61 riders are that fed up with crowding (NB, by time it reaches 4th av... SB, by time it hits Atlantic [shit, sometimes buses are crushloaded at the terminal/first pick-up stop]).... What it is, is that they're trying to make the B103 more efficient by drawing more riders on the northern portion of the route (north of the junction)...... Not sure how many B61 riders would abandon it for the B103, but in general, I'm inclined to agree with the assertion.... - S55, yeah, of course..... - That just might be what they want to accomplish w/ the BM's... They did it with the x27 & x28 (although x27 weekend service was restored)..... Brooklyn express bus usage is underrated IMO....I mean, it tells you something when you actually have Park Slope & Carroll Gardens (don't think Cobble Hill is included, but those folks probably done joined the bandwagon too) clamoring for express bus service... - Qm17 usage is only gonna grow, with ppl. still moving out to Arverne & what not.... Nothing staggering though, being that the Rockaways in general will never be as dense as mainland Queens..... - Qm16 usage is gonna stay stagnant.... No type of communal developments west of the wye, meaning you're gonna get the same "regulars" taking that route, with very little-to-no variation in annual ridership.... I've seen at least one person on here suggest having it sent over to Bigot (Breezy) Point, but I cannot see public transportation being welcome out there..... I still say they should've left the Qm16 ending at B 147th (instead of sending over to Riis Beach parking lot/Bathhouse area), but that's w/e... Wonder if those extra 8 people the 16 gained, are infact Breezies.... well the limits preventing buses from going east of Knapp on the belt gone I won't be surprised if they try and merge QM16 & BM3 to say the buses are fuller. And pretend full time service is being added to QM16. Park slope will never see express bus service plain and simple the subway is too quick. He ain't worth it son his paranoia is not to be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2014 Share #70 Posted March 29, 2014 well the limits preventing buses from going east of Knapp on the belt gone I won't be surprised if they try and merge QM16 & BM3 to say the buses are fuller. And pretend full time service is being added to QM16. Park slope will never see express bus service plain and simple the subway is too quick. He ain't worth it son his paranoia is not to be taken seriously. Nah, that sounds more like a pipe dream you have.... For them to say (and make) the buses fuller, All they'd have to do is add stops along Woodhaven (north of Liberty) on the QM16/17 (further digging into QM15 service) & take away stops along Ocean av (BM1) & within Kensington (BM1 & BM2), while making the BM's rush hour only (like the QM16/17 already is).... There's a term for this (besides asinine) and it's called barebone service.... They won't merge routes to the extent of what you brought up, for the sake of portraying increased usage because it would be wasted mileage..... The one thing you are right about though, is that the MTA does like to subtract service (whether sneakily or overtly) & then lay claim that oh, service is getting better; just notice how many more people are riding the things..... Like daily commuters of an affected route won't/haven't realize/d just what the hell is going on...... ...and as far as Park Slope & Carroll Gardens getting express bus service.... Logically, yeah that conclusion is easily made, but with the direction this borough is going, nothing surprises me anymore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share #71 Posted March 29, 2014 I don't get the logics of adding stops to a route that already serves its own area and have it steal from another route. If the QM16/QM17 don't get much usuage then it just doesn't. The MTA feels like they can just throw more lines on Woodhaven like its going to do something. I already know what's going to happen in the upcoming years. The Q21 is definitely getting eliminated because the Q52 is becoming more popular. The BM5 most likely will go because it performs worse out of the BM lines. I honestly see the QM16 going as well only because people tend to take the Q35 to the and in that area. There has been a lot of talk of making the Q53 the SBS and I wouldn't be surprised of it does. The Q53 Local will replace the Q11 and serve its areas and at night it will be extended to Rockaway Park. The SBS Q53 will basically serve the same stops as the Q53 LTD does now. So basically what I believe is going to happen is eventually the Q21 and maybe the Q11 might be eliminated and the Q53 will get local service to serve from woodside to Hamilton beach/ Howard Beach. But that will happen IF the Q53 was to get SBS as well as Artics. I have a feeling the MTA is going to take service from the BM5 until they cry saying no one uses it. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 30, 2014 Share #72 Posted March 30, 2014 I don't get the logics of adding stops to a route that already serves its own area and have it steal from another route. If the QM16/QM17 don't get much usuage then it just doesn't. The MTA feels like they can just throw more lines on Woodhaven like its going to do something. I already know what's going to happen in the upcoming years. The Q21 is definitely getting eliminated because the Q52 is becoming more popular. The BM5 most likely will go because it performs worse out of the BM lines. I honestly see the QM16 going as well only because people tend to take the Q35 to the and in that area. There has been a lot of talk of making the Q53 the SBS and I wouldn't be surprised of it does. The Q53 Local will replace the Q11 and serve its areas and at night it will be extended to Rockaway Park. The SBS Q53 will basically serve the same stops as the Q53 LTD does now. So basically what I believe is going to happen is eventually the Q21 and maybe the Q11 might be eliminated and the Q53 will get local service to serve from woodside to Hamilton beach/ Howard Beach. But that will happen IF the Q53 was to get SBS as well as Artics. I have a feeling the MTA is going to take service from the BM5 until they cry saying no one uses it. Any thoughts? The logic is to give riders options..... Once the MTA sees which option riders are choosing more other the other(s), that's when they make their move in dwindling service on the least chosen option.... I agree with you on the Q21 & BM5... They're gonna slowly phase out the Q21 & outright slash the BM5... Whether they start sending more BM2's to Starett City, remains to be seen.....However, I don't see them getting rid of the Q11 though (on top of the Q21), for the sake of implementing Q53 local & SBS service.... I think they'll keep the Q11, and have one Woodhaven SBS service running from QB/Woodhaven, split to running to either Rockaway Park or Arverne on the southern tail of the route... Similar to how they got the M34/a service along 34th st, except obviously that service has 2 different terminals on both its ends..... I would not be surprised if they were to send the Q70 LTD down to Hoffman, to replace the Q53 north of QB..... Lastly, No Brooklyn rider regularly commutes on the QM16... For example, On the certain trip I used to take (the bus that reached W 37th/6th around 6:45-6:50... don't know how things are now, since I don't work in manhattan anymore), most the time, I'd be the only person on the bus at (what was then) the last stop @ B. 147th.... Sometimes there would be a heavy set white lady that would get off also.... QM16 riders seeking the Q35 is not what's keeping the QM16 around.... The folks that give the QM16 the ridership it does get, are the patrons b/w B 116th & B 147th, and the Howard beach folks that get off along the 2 stops along cross bay (159th, 163rd) - Those are the main 2 riderbases on the QM16.... The folks that are taking Q35's to the are a totally different set of commuters than those taking QM16's to get to/from manhattan.... There's no interchanging going on there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q101viaSteinway Posted March 30, 2014 Share #73 Posted March 30, 2014 I think that MTA is going to keep QM16 because QM16 continue to be growing route I don't think MTA is going to get rid of Q21 because Q21 serve as Lindenwood branch of Q11 I think MTA will make Q52/Q53 SBS without making Q52/Q53 local because they will say that Q11/Q21 is local bus I don't think MTA will extend Q70 as it serves its purpose very well and there is no need to extend Q70 anywhere despite qjtransitmaster fight to extend it to Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 30, 2014 Share #74 Posted March 30, 2014 I think that MTA is going to keep QM16 because QM16 continue to be growing route I don't think MTA is going to get rid of Q21 because Q21 serve as Lindenwood branch of Q11 I think MTA will make Q52/Q53 SBS without making Q52/Q53 local because they will say that Q11/Q21 is local bus I don't think MTA will extend Q70 as it serves its purpose very well and there is no need to extend Q70 anywhere despite qjtransitmaster fight to extend it to Brooklyn. - I don't see the MTA cutting the QM16 either, but what growth of the Qm16 do you envision? Along what part of the route? The only real noticeable increase that route has had in the past 10 years, was when they extended it from B 116th to B 147th back in 2007... It shot up from 199 to 320 riders between '07 & '08 (which is that "320" you see in the 2008 stat column there)... and has been increasing up until 2011, to that 383 or whatever (although some of that 383 I think are Howard Beach riders, that happen to catch the 16 first over the 17).... - That's fine.... But for one, the MTA will argue the Q41 (remember, the majority of Lindenwood patrons on the Q21 ride no further than the )... and two, you alluded to it yourself - what's to stop them from having a Q11 Lindenwood branch..... At this point, leaving it to be the "Q21" would be nothing more than routing nomenclature.... - Yeah, there won't be a need to make Q52's/Q53's local.... I think they're gonna have the Q11 handle all local duties along Woodhaven in the future.... While its great that they didn't cut the Q21 when they could have easily done so, now that they have the Q52 LTD, and these talks of woodhaven SBS are increasing, they're gonna look to start axing service where possible - which IMO, would have them (re)analyzing the Q21 for purposes of putting it on the chopping block (again)..... - I don't think they're gonna run Woodhaven SBS' all the way up to Woodside; they'd likely attempt to consolidate the portions of the Q52 & Q53 where they currently parallel each other (which begins at QB, since that's where the Q52 starts & where the Q53 meets up w/ the Q52) to have SBS running along.... As far as the Q70, well hey, they're not gonna leave Broadway b/w QB & Roosevelt with no service, so something is gonna have to give.... I think they'd consider moving the 70 south of Woodside before they'd consider sending Q11's north of QB..... That, and the MTA would attempt to bring more riders to the Q70 since it is an airport route, and since airport routes (outside of SBS routes) are really the only routes the MTA advertises.... The short routes of today will become either become longer routes, or non-existent routes tomorrow (I don't mean tomorrow, literally)..... QJT's push to send it to Brooklyn is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q101viaSteinway Posted March 30, 2014 Share #75 Posted March 30, 2014 - I don't see the MTA cutting the QM16 either, but what growth of the Qm16 do you envision? Along what part of the route? The only real noticeable increase that route has had in the past 10 years, was when they extended it from B 116th to B 147th back in 2007... It shot up from 199 to 320 riders between '07 & '08 (which is that "320" you see in the 2008 stat column there)... and has been increasing up until 2011, to that 383 or whatever (although some of that 383 I think are Howard Beach riders, that happen to catch the 16 first over the 17).... - That's fine.... But for one, the MTA will argue the Q41 (remember, the majority of Lindenwood patrons on the Q21 ride no further than the )... and two, you alluded to it yourself - what's to stop them from having a Q11 Lindenwood branch..... At this point, leaving it to be the "Q21" would be nothing more than routing nomenclature.... - Yeah, there won't be a need to make Q52's/Q53's local.... I think they're gonna have the Q11 handle all local duties along Woodhaven in the future.... While its great that they didn't cut the Q21 when they could have easily done so, now that they have the Q52 LTD, and these talks of woodhaven SBS are increasing, they're gonna look to start axing service where possible - which IMO, would have them (re)analyzing the Q21 for purposes of putting it on the chopping block (again)..... - I don't think they're gonna run Woodhaven SBS' all the way up to Woodside; they'd likely attempt to consolidate the portions of the Q52 & Q53 where they currently parallel each other (which begins at QB, since that's where the Q52 starts & where the Q53 meets up w/ the Q52) to have SBS running along.... As far as the Q70, well hey, they're not gonna leave Broadway b/w QB & Roosevelt with no service, so something is gonna have to give.... I think they'd consider moving the 70 south of Woodside before they'd consider sending Q11's north of QB..... That, and the MTA would attempt to bring more riders to the Q70 since it is an airport route, and since airport routes (outside of SBS routes) are really the only routes the MTA advertises.... The short routes of today will become either become longer routes, or non-existent routes tomorrow (I don't mean tomorrow, literally)..... QJT's push to send it to Brooklyn is irrelevant. -Q21 already is Q11 Lindenwood branch right now and right now only difference between Q11 and Q21 is nomenclature -I think that QM16 will get more ridership especially from Howard Beach if they increase frequency because Howard Beach resident prefer QM16 over QM17 because they don't want to ride bus with black people who take QM17. To many Howard Beach resident it is still 1986 if you know what I mean. Also if span improve, many more people would take QM16 bus -I think MTA is more likely to send Q33 to Queens Central Mall rather than extend Q70 there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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