B35 via Church Posted March 22, 2014 Share #26 Posted March 22, 2014 The Q21 isn't going to be eliminated or eradicated. The Q21 has had the same headways since for about 7 years already, and if anything, the Q21 service span has been increased over the same period of time. You don't know that, every year the Q11 and Q21 keep losing riders the statistics show it. Obviously the Q52 is going to keep growing and eventually the weakest route the Q21 is going to lose trips to the Q52. No I mean come on next year the Q11 might have 4400 average riders on the weekdays and the Q21 may have 1600 you really think the MTA is going to let both of those route run together. One has to go simple as that. I have to side w/ New Flyer here in this small back & forth... I also think they eventually want to streamline (local) service along Woodhaven (although I have no idea which one they'd opt to keep if push came to shove..... So I say, the question more or less is gonna be, who's goin end up gettin the shaft - Lindenwood (Q21) or Howard/Hamilton Beach (Q11).... Q11's usage has been significantly dropping the past handful of years [due to the revitalizing of the Q21 since '09 & due to increased LTD service along Woodhaven (via the advent of the Q52)] & the Q21 has lost a ton of ridership last year (also due to increased LTD service along Woodhaven).... You look at the stats here, and it indicates that riders are abandoning local service for LTD service along Woodhaven/X-bay..... Can't say I blame them though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 22, 2014 Share #27 Posted March 22, 2014 I have to side w/ New Flyer here in this small back & forth... I also think they eventually want to streamline (local) service along Woodhaven (although I have no idea which one they'd opt to keep if push came to shove..... So I say, the question more or less is gonna be, who's goin end up gettin the shaft - Lindenwood (Q21) or Howard/Hamilton Beach (Q11).... Q11's usage has been significantly dropping the past handful of years [due to the revitalizing of the Q21 since '09 & due to increased LTD service along Woodhaven (via the advent of the Q52)] & the Q21 has lost a ton of ridership last year (also due to increased LTD service along Woodhaven).... You look at the stats here, and it indicates that riders are abandoning local service for LTD service along Woodhaven/X-bay..... Can't say I blame them though.... My money is on Lindenwood (Q21) getting the shaft due to MTA logic of duplicate services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q101viaSteinway Posted March 22, 2014 Share #28 Posted March 22, 2014 My money is on Lindenwood (Q21) getting the shaft due to MTA logic of duplicate services. The devil is a lie In reality that is an expression I am using to call out you on saying that because the fact the Q21 is getting the shaft is not true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted March 22, 2014 Is crazy lines like the BX22 gets 60ft while B6, B35. B41, B46 go without. When I'm on the BxM11 in Pelham Parkway, I see pretty crowded Bx22s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 22, 2014 Share #30 Posted March 22, 2014 Im not trying to turn this into a Q11/Q21 discussion, but if any of the three local services gets shafted or eradicated, its the Hamilton Beach Branch of the Q11, and with good reason too (didn't feel like quoting people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 22, 2014 Share #31 Posted March 22, 2014 The devil is a lie In reality that is an expression I am using to call out you on saying that because the fact the Q21 is getting the shaft is not true chill out dude it's not that serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 22, 2014 Share #32 Posted March 22, 2014 My money is on Lindenwood (Q21) getting the shaft due to MTA logic of duplicate services. Well if that's the case & if they really wanna be frugal, they would send the Q11 to Lindenwood & have the Q41 running to Howard & Hamilton beach(es).... Q41 headways are greater than that of the Q11, so they wont have to worry about short turning too many trips at Pitkin or whatever..... When I'm on the BxM11 in Pelham Parkway, I see pretty crowded Bx22s... Yeah, Bx22 carries heavy from Castle Hill projects to commercial Fordham.... I've been a couple packed (SRO) on the NB Bx22 after having came of the Q44 from Flushing.... Speaking of which, isn't Castle Hill closed for renovation in both directions? Wonder how those people on the 22 that normally xfer over to the are gettin around; probablty riding it out from Kingsbridge or something, IDK...... I guess Kanarsie's point was that artics should be ran on Brooklyn routes that carry heavy..... The devil is a lie ** YT video ** In reality that is an expression I am using to call out you on saying that because the fact the Q21 is getting the shaft is not true It's easy to get into a habit of QJT bashing (lol), but to be fair here, you're "calling out" the wrong person..... - QJT was only giving his guess; meaning, an opinion.... - New Flyer230 stated that a driver told him about how the MTA is trying to get rid of the Q21 in an unnoticeable way... Im not trying to turn this into a Q11/Q21 discussion, but if any of the three local services gets shafted or eradicated, its the Hamilton Beach Branch of the Q11, and with good reason too (didn't feel like quoting people). Too late for that.... Anyway, guessing Hamilton Beach trips be slated for eradication is the safe bet.... This trend of drastic declining ridership keeps up w/ the Woodhaven locals & I think all local service south of the in particular (meaning, the Q11, Q21, and Q41) is gonna see some kind of shake up/mix up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitednyc Posted March 22, 2014 Share #33 Posted March 22, 2014 Is crazy lines like the BX22 gets 60ft while B6, B35. B41, B46 go without. it has to do with the union untill the B44 sbs they fought for a dacade against atrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted March 22, 2014 Share #34 Posted March 22, 2014 M101 ridership went up, for the first time in years. I'm pretty surprised, I have no idea why that happened. Also, the M98, M102 and M103 lost less ridership last year than they have in the years before, so maybe ridership is going up on the corridor? Incidentally, ridership on the M15 also went down, for the first time since 2010. Understandable, since that route is pretty unreliable at times, but still a little odd. The M1 also saw a ridership increase, but all of the other 5th Av routes are losing ridership like normal. I also noticed how the B48 had a huge spike in ridership after being restored last year, that's good for the route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 23, 2014 Share #35 Posted March 23, 2014 Anyone know what the huge jump in the Q24 is all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted March 23, 2014 Share #36 Posted March 23, 2014 Probably the fact that it was restored to its former terminal last year, just like the B48. But if that 15% increase is huge, then the B48's 52% increase was massive, or, ginormous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkerX Posted March 23, 2014 Share #37 Posted March 23, 2014 The M1 also saw a ridership increase, but all of the other 5th Av routes are losing ridership like normal. The face that the M1 out of all the 5th Ave routes got a bump scares me. I guess I understand how the 5th/Madison Ave section of those routes work but for the M7 & M10 to keep pretty consistant numbers means that Harlem & Washington Heights will respect the service if it respects them. I just wish they woud improve on M1-M4 service instead of ways cutting it down. In othere news, no shock M116 service is in on the rise as that area develops and the mall evolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 23, 2014 Share #38 Posted March 23, 2014 M101 ridership went up, for the first time in years. I'm pretty surprised, I have no idea why that happened. Also, the M98, M102 and M103 lost less ridership last year than they have in the years before, so maybe ridership is going up on the corridor? Incidentally, ridership on the M15 also went down, for the first time since 2010. Understandable, since that route is pretty unreliable at times, but still a little odd. The M1 also saw a ridership increase, but all of the other 5th Av routes are losing ridership like normal. That's precisely the problem... A lot of people jump on the M15 when they see it coming and when there are long delays, they just walk. I'm usually lucky and can get one but depending on where one is located on Bus Time, if the weather is nice, I'll walk to get some exercise and check out some of the latest restaurants along 2nd Avenue. If you have to make another connection, in some cases, you're better off just walking as you don't have to worry about traffic conditions, etc. The face that the M1 out of all the 5th Ave routes got a bump scares me. I guess I understand how the 5th/Madison Ave section of those routes work but for the M7 & M10 to keep pretty consistant numbers means that Harlem & Washington Heights will respect the service if it respects them. I just wish they woud improve on M1-M4 service instead of ways cutting it down. The M1 in Harlem, that's where I would imagine the ridership is growing, as I see large crowds waiting for the M1 when I'm on the express bus in the morning. The 5th Ave corridor overall should be losing ridership because the traffic along 5th has steadily become almost unbearable. Mount Sinai seems to be one problem that clogs up traffic, but then the Museum traffic is another bottle neck as well. Too much double parking and so on in certain parts and the crowds waiting for the buses along 5th just swell. Some eventually give up and walk to the subway. When that happens you know it's bad because the Upper East Side crowd, many of them don't like taking the subway, especially the older crowd due to the stairs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 23, 2014 Share #39 Posted March 23, 2014 Anyone know what the huge jump in the Q24 is all about? Probably the fact that it was restored to its former terminal last year, just like the B48. But if that 15% increase is huge, then the B48's 52% increase was massive, or, ginormous Likely an increase of people using the Q24 to get to/from Jamaica (over the Q56).... I have been noticing this, since I've been taking the Q56 after disembarking the LIRR..... Also, to what Mysterious2 said, the fact that it was restored to Lafayette/Patchen..... What I can't quite figure out though is the increase in ridership past B'way Junction.... Compared to before, you're seeing more ppl. still on Q24's past B'way Junction (PM buses anyway, don't know about AM usage, WB).... Don't remember who said it, and it would be somewhat difficult to pull off with the short turned B46, but having buses run over to Utica there would increase ridership even more.... Because what I have noticed in years past (and currently, b/c I've done it myself a few times), are ppl. walking from Lafayette/Patchen, for the SB B46.... So yeh, I think these two factors may explain the boost in usage on the Q24.... To be even more specific on the first factor, There are more ppl. coming off Q10's specifically that xfer over to the Q24, compared to the Q56.... What I noticed whilst taking the Q56 is that, there aren't near as many ppl. (compared to years prior) that embark/disembark over at Lefferts (for the Q10 anyway).... The main reason I don't bother with the Q24 coming off the LIRR (for Alabama av for the B12) is b/c the chances of my bus being more packed @ Sutphin is much greater.... Granted, there are packed Q56's too, but I can get a seat more often than not.... That, and the fact that the Q24 still is a slow crawl along Atlantic...... Maybe a LTD would help that route some, IDK.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted March 23, 2014 Share #40 Posted March 23, 2014 Well here I go again: Bronx Bx12 Bx1/2 Bx19 Bx36 Bx9 Bx40/42 Bx15 Bx6 Bx41 Bx39 Brooklyn B46 B6 B44 B35 B41 B82 B15 B38 B8 B1 Manhattan M15 M14 M101 M86 M4 M34 M79 M60 M100 M96 Queens Q58 Q44 Q27 Q46 Q17 Q43 Q20 Q85 Q5 Q54 Staten Island S53 S79 S48/98 S46/96 S78 S44/94 S74/84 S62/92 S76/86 S40/90 NYCT Express X1 X17 X27/37 X10 X28/38 X12/42 X22 X5 X7 X2 Bus Q10 Q65 Q25 Q23 Q53 Q60 Q111 Q66 B103 Q6 Bus Express BxM7 BxM9 QM5 QM2 BxM8 BxM10 BxM1 QM15 BM1 BxM11 Any thoughts? I'm kind of shocked how the Q111 outranked the 113... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 23, 2014 Share #41 Posted March 23, 2014 - Lol @ the B35 losing that much ridership (according to stats).... I have to attribute this to farebeating, because believe it or not, the amount of dollar cabs are actually decreasing around here..... - The Q54 looks out of place being in the top ten in Queens (for NYCT routes)... - I find the BxM10 having more riders than the QM15 rather shocking..... smh at the BM1 being the only BM in the top 10 (how close was the BM2 to being in the top 10, since you compiled this list?) - Thought the B103 would be higher up on such a list..... Then again, if it's right under the Q66, forget it.... - Can't quite put my finger on it, but the top 10 list of manhattan routes appears unusual (than what we're accustomed to usually seeing).. Not sure if it's due to an omission or an insertion though..... Off top, that's all I got for now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share #42 Posted March 24, 2014 Forget the separation between MTA Bus and NYCT. Queens: 1. Q58 2. Q44 3. Q27 3. Q10 4. Q46 5. Q65 6. Q25 7. Q17 8. Q43 9. Q23 10. Q53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted March 24, 2014 Share #43 Posted March 24, 2014 - Lol @ the B35 losing that much ridership (according to stats).... I have to attribute this to farebeating, because believe it or not, the amount of dollar cabs are actually decreasing around here..... - The Q54 looks out of place being in the top ten in Queens (for NYCT routes)... - I find the BxM10 having more riders than the QM15 rather shocking..... smh at the BM1 being the only BM in the top 10 (how close was the BM2 to being in the top 10, since you compiled this list?) - Thought the B103 would be higher up on such a list..... Then again, if it's right under the Q66, forget it.... - Can't quite put my finger on it, but the top 10 list of manhattan routes appears unusual (than what we're accustomed to usually seeing).. Not sure if it's due to an omission or an insertion though..... Off top, that's all I got for now..... For the Q54, ever since I did this, it has always been in the top 10 for Queens. The Q43 made the top 10. The Q32 dropped out... The BM2 missed the top 10 by 4 spots. The QM6, 20 and 24 outranked it. (not in that order though). The BM2 is the second heaviest used among the BM's... That's the first time I made included all the routes. Had I based it solely on Queens, the Q113 makes the top 10 in that department... It does look unusual. Had to do a double take myself. The M96 outranked the M7... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 24, 2014 Share #44 Posted March 24, 2014 - Lol @ the B35 losing that much ridership (according to stats).... I have to attribute this to farebeating, because believe it or not, the amount of dollar cabs are actually decreasing around here..... - The Q54 looks out of place being in the top ten in Queens (for NYCT routes)... - I find the BxM10 having more riders than the QM15 rather shocking..... smh at the BM1 being the only BM in the top 10 (how close was the BM2 to being in the top 10, since you compiled this list?) - Thought the B103 would be higher up on such a list..... Then again, if it's right under the Q66, forget it.... - Can't quite put my finger on it, but the top 10 list of manhattan routes appears unusual (than what we're accustomed to usually seeing).. Not sure if it's due to an omission or an insertion though..... Off top, that's all I got for now..... Bm1 why are you surprised? Look at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 25, 2014 Share #45 Posted March 25, 2014 Bm1 why are you surprised? Look at it Do you even know what I'm referring to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 25, 2014 Share #46 Posted March 25, 2014 - Lol @ the B35 losing that much ridership (according to stats).... I have to attribute this to farebeating, because believe it or not, the amount of dollar cabs are actually decreasing around here..... - The Q54 looks out of place being in the top ten in Queens (for NYCT routes)... - I find the BxM10 having more riders than the QM15 rather shocking..... smh at the BM1 being the only BM in the top 10 (how close was the BM2 to being in the top 10, since you compiled this list?) - Thought the B103 would be higher up on such a list..... Then again, if it's right under the Q66, forget it.... - Can't quite put my finger on it, but the top 10 list of manhattan routes appears unusual (than what we're accustomed to usually seeing).. Not sure if it's due to an omission or an insertion though..... Off top, that's all I got for now..... The QM15 doesn't have service to Manhattan until like 11PM and to Queens starting at 7 AM, and it's off peak frequencies, so it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 25, 2014 Share #47 Posted March 25, 2014 Well here I go again: Bronx Bx12 Bx1/2 Bx19 Bx36 Bx9 Bx40/42 Bx15 Bx6 Bx41 Bx39 Brooklyn B46 B6 B44 B35 B41 B82 B15 B38 B8 B1 Manhattan M15 M14 M101 M86 M4 M34 M79 M60 M100 M96 Queens Q58 Q44 Q27 Q46 Q17 Q43 Q20 Q85 Q5 Q54 Staten Island S53 S79 S48/98 S46/96 S78 S44/94 S74/84 S62/92 S76/86 S40/90 NYCT Express X1 X17 X27/37 X10 X28/38 X12/42 X22 X5 X7 X2 Bus Q10 Q65 Q25 Q23 Q53 Q60 Q111 Q66 B103 Q6 Bus Express BxM7 BxM9 QM5 QM2 BxM8 BxM10 BxM1 QM15 BM1 BxM11 Any thoughts? I'm kind of shocked how the Q111 outranked the 113... Q111 is more frequent than Q113 local and LTD branches so no surprise there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 25, 2014 Share #48 Posted March 25, 2014 The QM15 doesn't have service to Manhattan until like 11PM and to Queens starting at 7 AM, and it's off peak frequencies, so it makes sense. Not to me, it doesn't..... Especially given that the QM15 tends to have more riders/trip over the BxM10.... The fact that the BxM10 has a greater span, I'm not putting all that much stock in - because a lot of those later trips carry air, or pretty close to it.... What would have been a better point for you to bring up, is the fact that the BM5 done took riders away from the QM15.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 25, 2014 Share #49 Posted March 25, 2014 Not to me, it doesn't..... Especially given that the QM15 tends to have more riders/trip over the BxM10.... The fact that the BxM10 has a greater span, I'm not putting all that much stock in - because a lot of those later trips carry air, or pretty close to it.... What would have been a better point for you to bring up, is the fact that the BM5 done took riders away from the QM15.... Not necessarily... Those BxM10 trips during the week can carry alright back to the city because of Albert Einstein/Montefiore. A lot of those workers use those express bus. I took a 16:30 or 17:00 trip back from a co-workers' house in Morris Park and that bus was packed. The weekends however is when trips can be light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted March 25, 2014 Share #50 Posted March 25, 2014 How does the MTA count this information? Is there a margin of error? Fares paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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