Post-recession poverty in Queens increases more than any other borough, new data shows

[Harry]

 

Tale of two cities? Try one borough. Poverty in Queens rose the most of all five boroughs in the years after the economic crisis — even as the city as a whole largely rebounded, according to new city data. The poverty rate in Queens jumped to 22 percent in 2012, up from 16 percent in 2008 — bringing the number of people living under the city poverty line to around 500,000. “I’ve seen some of the changes with my own eyes,” said Councilman Daniel Dromm, whose district in Jackson Heights is among the poorest in the borough.  “We get a huge number of constituents coming in who can’t meet rent, are going to be evicted, or are in illegally converted houses as the only way they can put a roof over their head.”

 

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[rosskin92]

I have to ask, what is an illegally converted house? Tenament like conditions?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[realizm]

I have to ask, what is an illegally converted house? Tenament like conditions? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Exactly. 

 

Many private houses or brownstones are converted into single occupancy rooms for rent, which is legal in itself. But many times landlords utilize rooms in a residence that violate all sorts of NYCHA housing preservation and development and/or FDNY requirements. Big one is renting out basements which is illegal. Usually this results in forced evictions as HPD steps in and shuts the operation down. Another problem is that the landlords do not offer leases for many of these rooms which can create major problems in housing court for the tenant.

 

Many landlords are crooks here in the Big Apple, they know such housing practices are illegal, yet they continue to do it brazenly at the expense of the low income earning tenant who are forced to live in single occupancy rooms because they cannot afford studio apartments otherwise.

[rosskin92]

 

I have to ask, what is an illegally converted house? Tenament like conditions? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Exactly. 

 

Many private houses or brownstones are converted into single occupancy rooms for rent, which is legal in itself. But many times landlords utilize rooms in a residence that violate all sorts of housing preservation and development and/or FDNY requirements. Big one is renting out basements which is illegal. Usually this results in forced evictions as HPD steps in and shuts the operation down. Another problem is that the landlords do not offer leases for many of these rooms which can create major problems in housing court for the tenant.

 

Many landlords are crooks here in the Big Apple, they know such housing practices are illegal, yet they continue to do it brazenly at the expense of the low income earning tenant who are forced to live in single occupancy rooms because they cannot afford studio apartments otherwise.

 

 

Renting out basements is illegal? Even if they are finished as apartments?

 

Interesting that SROs are legal. They arent here, but i have seen some projects pushing them .... For 1000 a month in a gentrifying area. Insane price when you can get a studio starting at 650. Also there have been stories about gentrification causing the evictions.

 

Sounds like NYC is stuck in the 20th. Century with this. But with rising housing prices... What will the alternative be?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[realizm]

Renting out basements is illegal? Even if they are finished as apartments? Interesting that SROs are legal. They arent here, but i have seen some projects pushing them .... For 1000 a month in a gentrifying area. Insane price when you can get a studio starting at 650. Also there have been stories about gentrification causing the evictions. Sounds like NYC is stuck in the 20th. Century with this. But with rising housing prices... What will the alternative be? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yep, renting out basements even as finished apartments is illegal. 

 

Yes the gentrification of many areas by real estate developers ups property values, which in turn brings up rents, which the poorer ones simply cannot afford. Because of this it causes massive shifts in demographics according to income level.

 

Alternative would be the politicians stepping in to reform rent stabilization laws. In the case of mayor deBlasio he is trying to do just that, however in my opinion his policy will not be met because it is the lawmakers in Albany that ultimately makes the decisions in regards to such problems, NYS has the last say in such matters, not City Hall. Additionally without reforms by NYS he is still at the mercy of the big shot real estate firms, and forced to make some compromises.  Additionally deBlasio has to continue to muster continued support from supporters that voted him into City Hall in the first place, however opposition is incredibly strong, completely against or undecided in regards to his affordability crisis policies he is trying to implement.  

 

I think eventually deBlasio will crack due to the pressure from opponents of his affordability crisis policy and nothing will ultimately be done. I tend not to be too hopeful with politicians so my attitude is to make a good life for myself on my own accord and disregard the empty promises of politics in general. Its not going to help me, better to improve my own situation on my own.

 

The sad part is that many cannot do this because they are legitimately trapped in the low income bracket and so their livelihoods are in the hands of deadbeat politicians and their nonsense. By that I mean from Koch, to Guliani, to Bloomberg. I am very skeptical of deBlasio as well, for many reasons. But if he can set this off in motion, then I will have to stand corrected and congratulate him for it if he can accomplish his goals. 

 

Only time will tell if this problem can be addressed successfully towards a solution. Which I think will not happen because many global power cities around the globe from Paris, to London to Tokyo are experiencing the exact same problem as New York, big time.

 

Yeah I said a mouthful on this issue I know but thats the jist of it pretty much.

 

Edit: I just want to add that single room occupancies is legal, in itself with fair practices. But as I've mentioned, many landlords utilize rooms and lay them out in a residence in such a way that violates NYCHA housing preservation and development and/or FDNY requirements. Resulting in forced evictions. These landlords can be cruel.

[QM1to6Ave]

Renting out a basement is generally illegal because there is a minimum requirement for number of windows that your living space must have. If you are supposed to be living in the basement, it is nearly impossible to have any windows, much less the minumum number of windows required by law. 

And Realizm, I agree that the housing market in NYC is incredibly corrupt. It is mind boggling when you hear some of the horror stories out there, 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not surprised... The rents in this city are constantly increasing but salaries for most folks aren't.  There was a study somewhere that said that more and more New Yorkers are spending more than 30% of their salaries in rent.  That makes me glad that I found a great place that is well under my 30% threshold in terms of the portion of rent paid to my income level.  I think the other thing is that most folks get a rent increase every year (I certainly do), but some landlords will ask for crazy increases well over 4%. Not that long ago, I overheard a lady who lives near me in Riverdale talking about how her rent was jacked up to $1,800.00 a month for her one bedroom because of her location, which is only a block or two at the most from where I'm at.  She really couldn't afford that, but it was either pay $1,800.00 a month or move, so she chose to stay and pay.  My landlord knows I have the means to pay and wants to keep me around since I pay promptly and really am not home that often, so he sends me a renewal lease early every year and I turn it in early since the increase is only roughly 4%.  If you have a good deal, keep it, save the difference you would be paying in rent and save it to buy a condo.  I honestly was expecting to pay a good $1,600 - 1,700 a month, but I was lucky because of the time of year that I was looking for a place.  Apartments tend to be cheaper during the cold months, as no one wants to move then so I looked early, found a place but really didn't move in until March and just paid rent at two locations until I was ready to move.  It was still a good deal because it saves a few hundred dollars a month, but the average rent here is almost $1,500.00 a month, so I'm not saving that much, but still better than $1,700.00 or 1,800.00 a month.  I don't think I've seen anything of late under $1,600.00 if one wants say a one bedroom.  Using the 40x the rent rule, a single person would need at least $64,000 a year in income and probably a credit score of 680 - 700 easy just to rent a place, which means most people either have to live at home, get roomates or not move until they can afford to move with their significant other.  The rule is 40x is the rent, but I've seen situations where landlords will ask for well over 40x the rent as a way of screening out certain income earners so that they get folks who earn even more.  For someone just out of college here in NYC that's a tall order to meet to say the least.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This doesn't happen in my neighborhood.

Yeah you're in Douglaston.... Smaller neighborhood compared to mine in terms of population, but the income levels are similar... A lot of areas around 90k or above 100k... Low unemployment, etc.  The other thing that's important too is that neither of our neighborhoods have a lot of rentals, which makes it hard for these types of situations to occur (illegal apartments, etc.)  Too many homeowners that would raise hell if that happened, and the land is at a premium so no need to rent apartments out to illegals, etc.

[rosskin92]

Not surprised... The rents in this city are constantly increasing but salaries for most folks aren't.  There was a study somewhere that said that more and more New Yorkers are spending more than 30% of their salaries in rent.  That makes me glad that I found a great place that is well under my 30% threshold in terms of the portion of rent paid to my income level.  I think the other thing is that most folks get a rent increase every year (I certainly do), but some landlords will ask for crazy increases well over 4%. Not that long ago, I overheard a lady who lives near me in Riverdale talking about how her rent was jacked up to $1,800.00 a month for her one bedroom because of her location, which is only a block or two at the most from where I'm at.  She really couldn't afford that, but it was either pay $1,800.00 a month or move, so she chose to stay and pay.  My landlord knows I have the means to pay and wants to keep me around since I pay promptly and really am not home that often, so he sends me a renewal lease early every year and I turn it in early since the increase is only roughly 4%.  If you have a good deal, keep it, save the difference you would be paying in rent and save it to buy a condo.  I honestly was expecting to pay a good $1,600 - 1,700 a month, but I was lucky because of the time of year that I was looking for a place.  Apartments tend to be cheaper during the cold months, as no one wants to move then so I looked early, found a place but really didn't move in until March and just paid rent at two locations until I was ready to move.  It was still a good deal because it saves a few hundred dollars a month, but the average rent here is almost $1,500.00 a month, so I'm not saving that much, but still better than $1,700.00 or 1,800.00 a month.  I don't think I've seen anything of late under $1,600.00 if one wants say a one bedroom.  Using the 40x the rent rule, a single person would need at least $64,000 a year in income and probably a credit score of 680 - 700 easy just to rent a place, which means most people either have to live at home, get roomates or not move until they can afford to move with their significant other.  The rule is 40x is the rent, but I've seen situations where landlords will ask for well over 40x the rent as a way of screening out certain income earners so that they get folks who earn even more.  For someone just out of college here in NYC that's a tall order to meet to say the least.  

Interesting tidbits.

 

I am looking at moving to NYC, interesting stuff to know. Do they allow cosigners for those just out of college?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Interesting tidbits.

 

I am looking at moving to NYC, interesting stuff to know. Do they allow cosigners for those just out of college?

That could be an option, but then you may be required to either pay a higher rent, or pay more rent in advance up front.  The usual standard is that if you get an apartment listed by a broker, then you pay three times.... The security, the broker's fee, and the first month's rent, but if you don't have any credit, or established income that can prove that you can pay the rent, or you have poor credit and rent payment history, the landlord may ask for three month's rent or more upfront instead of just one month, on top of the security deposit and the broker's fee, this way he or she has a way of seeing whether or not you can meet your monthly obligations for the rent along with your other expenses.  Also, each time that your rent increases, you'll have to send in the difference in what your rent previous was vs what it will be when the new lease starts (security deposit).  I would recommend buying a place if you can, but most folks graduating now have so much student loan debt that it makes it almost possible to do that.  Graduating with 30k in student loans used to be normal, but some folks are graduating with 60 - 100k in student loans, which makes buying a place with that student loan debt obligations pretty difficult, even if your salary is decent.

 

I feel fortunate enough that each year my salary has gone up slightly, and this year it should increase as well by about 10k or so because everything keeps going up.  

[rosskin92]

That could be an option but then you may be required to either pay a higher rent, or pay more rent in advance up front.  The usual standard is that if you get an apartment listed by a broker, then you pay three times.... The security, the broker's fee, and the first month's rent, but if you don't have any credit, or established income that can prove that you can pay the rent, or you have poor credit and rent payment history the landlord may ask for three month's rent or more upfront instead of just one month, on top of the security deposit and the broker's fee, this way as a way of seeing whether or not you can meet your monthly obligations for the rent.  Also, each time that your rent increases, you'll have to send in the difference in what your rent previous was vs what it will be when the new lease starts.  I would recommend buying a place if you can but most folks graduating now have so much student loan debt that it makes it almost possible to do that.  Graduating with 30k in student loans used to be normal, but some folks are graduating with 60 - 100k in student loans, which makes buying a place with that student loan debt obligations pretty difficult, even if your salary is decent.

 

Luckially I have no loans (until grad school).

 

Have any places you would reccomend? Ik we are off topic now I am curious.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Luckially I have no loans (until grad school).

 

Have any places you would reccomend? Ik we are off topic now I am curious.

lol... Not really off-topic since rent is the main reason why poverty levels have increased in this city.  That really depends on your budget to be honest.  The only cheap areas that I can think of would be ghetto areas in the Bronx, ghetto parts of Brooklyn and some immigrant parts in Queens where you have 10 people in a one bedroom or some crazy nonsense.  Anywhere else you can expect to pay a good $1,500.00 and up for a one bedroom unless you're really far out. A studio could be another option.  Could save you some cash.  

[rosskin92]

lol... Not really off-topic since rent is the main reason why poverty levels have increased in this city.  That really depends on your budget to be honest.  The only cheap areas that I can think of would be ghetto areas in the Bronx, ghetto parts of Brooklyn and some immigrant parts in Queens where you have 10 people in a one bedroom or some crazy nonsense.  Anywhere else you can expect to pay a good $1,500.00 and up for a one bedroom unless you're really far out. A studio could be another option.  Could save you some cash.  

I am defiently looking at the studios more, since I have ideas for the layout. its a good place to start too. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I am defiently looking at the studios more, since I have ideas for the layout. its a good place to start too. 

Yeah studios in Manhattan can be like shoe boxes, but you can get more space if you look around.  I think studios here in my area are around $1,250.00, and you may be lucky enough to get a doorman building in a co-op if you're willing to go through the whole process of the board reviewing your financials which can take a while, as some buildings can be picky about who they choose and don't choose. You also need to factor in transportation costs too.  Riverdale has great transportation options if you hate using the subway as I do.  Three express buses and Metro-North, but my transportation costs are usually over $300.00 a month, as I interchange a lot between the express bus and Metro-North depending on my mood, traffic etc.  I personally don't see a need to have a car where I'm at because I have everything within walking distance to me, but most here that do drive tend to prefer to park in the numerous private garages, but that'll cost you another $300.00 or so a month, plus gas, insurance, maintenance, monthly car payments, etc.  Me personally, I'd rather keep that $800.00 -1,000.00 or whatever a month in my pocket to enjoy nice restaurants, etc. but if you must if your primary commute isn't to and from Manhattan as mine is, then you may need a car, which would increase your expenses.  Heck my expenses are easily over 3k a month, and I don't even have a car, so you can save a good chunk of money if you can don't need it.  You also need to set aside money for retirement, emergency savings, etc., so that's especially why it's good to ditch the car or not get one as I decided to do.  A lot less stress, that's for sure.

[rosskin92]

Yeah studios in Manhattan can be like shoe boxes, but you can get more space if you look around.  I think studios here in my area are around $1,250.00, and you may be lucky enough to get a doorman building in a co-op if you're willing to go through the whole process of the board reviewing your financials which can take a while, as some buildings can be picky about who they choose and don't choose. You also need to factor in transportation costs too.  Riverdale has great transportation options if you hate using the subway as I do.  Three express buses and Metro-North, but my transportation costs are usually over $300.00 a month, as I interchange a lot between the express bus and Metro-North depending on my mood, traffic etc.  I personally don't see a need to have a car where I'm at because I have everything within walking distance to me, but most here that do drive tend to prefer to park in the numerous private garages, but that'll cost you another $300.00 or so a month, plus gas, insurance, maintenance, monthly car payments, etc.  Me personally, I'd rather keep that $800.00 -1,000.00 or whatever a month in my pocket to enjoy nice restaurants, etc. but if you must if your primary commute isn't to and from Manhattan as mine is, then you may need a car, which would increase your expenses.  Heck my expenses are easily over 3k a month, and I don't even have a car, so you can save a good chunk of money if you can don't need it.  You also need to set aside money for retirement, emergency savings, etc., so that's especially why it's good to ditch the car or not get one as I decided to do.  A lot less stress, that's for sure.

 

I agree with the car aspect. 

 

Most of the jobs I have seen are in lower or midtown Manhattan, something to consider also. 

 

Is the subway that bad? I rode it once thats it haha. I am guessing it gets stuffed during certain times and that is the issue haha.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree with the car aspect. 

 

Most of the jobs I have seen are in lower or midtown Manhattan, something to consider also. 

 

Is the subway that bad? I rode it once thats it haha. I am guessing it gets stuffed during certain times and that is the issue haha.

Most people like living in areas near a subway, but you'll pay more for that as a result, so you may have a quicker commute, but a higher rent.  That's one reason why Riverdale is a bit cheaper than Manhattan, but the way they're building up here, all of the new development by me is either luxury condos, luxury rentals or co-ops, so not many rentals, which keep the prices high even with there being no subway here. What you do get here though is more space for the most part compared to Manhattan.  $1,600.00 - 1,700.00 here for a one bedroom could probably get you into a doorman building (I choose not to get one for the time being since I like my privacy).

[traingoat]

I have to ask, what is an illegally converted house? Tenament like conditions? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Many basement illegal apts don't have the two egresses required by code, door and fire escape or second door. So a finished basement is not the problem but getting out of there. Second part is the zoning meaning an area designated as single family means single family. Many areas are zoned one and two families where conversion to a two family is done right it is legal.

[CenSin]

Housing prices should drop in a few years or less. If people can't afford to buy the prices they are selling, nobody will buy, and they'll be forced to lower prices. There will be a big drop like a few years ago.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Housing prices should drop in a few years or less. If people can't afford to buy the prices they are selling, nobody will buy, and they'll be forced to lower prices. There will be a big drop like a few years ago.

That's assuming that foreign investment in the housing market drops off... Lots of Europeans buying up properties here in NYC, which is keeping the prices high.  

[cybeatsul]

Foreign investments are propping up properties at high alarming rate for their children to study here in the city.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Foreign investments are propping up properties at high alarming rate for their children to study here in the city.

Yeah I would call it another housing bubble... I wonder how long the trend will last.

[realizm]

Yeah I would call it another housing bubble... I wonder how long the trend will last.

It may last for a long time unless rent stabilization reforms are in place, quickly.

 

Whats happening is that there is increased demand fueled by the Federal Reserve’s concerted efforts to push down borrowing costs. At the same time Wall Street and the banks are seeking to make a profit for foreclosed homes. In turn since we are in a real estate depression sort of speak real estate firms are either acquiring property or building new property, and establishing costs for rent at exorbitant prices, more so than the median level income for the New Yorker by average, at this point.

 

It may seem that we are experiencing an economic boom in real estate but in reality we are not, and this puts a burden on working New Yorkers. The key is legislation through Albany to stop the worsening trends, its the only way to get this situation stable and not let it spiral out of control.

[realizm]

Foreign investments are propping up properties at high alarming rate for their children to study here in the city.

Being that this is a global power city i am not suprised by this.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It may last for a long time unless rent stabilization reforms are in place, quickly.

 

Whats happening is that there is increased demand fueled by the Federal Reserve’s concerted efforts to push down borrowing costs. At the same time Wall Street and the banks are seeking to make a profit for foreclosed homes. In turn since we are in a real estate depression sort of speak real estate firms are either acquiring property or building new property, and establishing costs for rent at exorbitant prices, more so than the median level income for the New Yorker by average, at this point.

 

It may seem that we are experiencing an economic boom in real estate but in reality we are not, and this puts a burden on working New Yorkers. The key is legislation through Albany to stop the worsening trends, its the only way to get this situation stable and not let it spiral out of control.

Well we are experiencing a boom in part due to the lack of inventory, and the large amount of luxury apartments being built.  The availability of affordable housing is the real issue because the prices are being pushed up more and more by outsiders.  I'm going to make a huge push to start saving for a down payment starting next year.  The extra monies that I have coming in now will probably grow next year and I'm just going to take that money and throw it into the bank and start saving for a sizable downpayment.  Ideally I would like to buy a condo here in Riverdale which is not easy because there are not many one bedroom condos here since most buildings are co-op and the few that are condos are in luxury buildings, and even then there are very few one bedrooms, which may mean that I may have to up my budget and go for a two bedroom.  

 

This building that caught my eye and isn't too far from me actually has a few but those are 530k - 840k, but they are over a 1,000 sq. ft. so go figure.

 

https://streeteasy.com/building/riverstone-condo#tab_building_detail=2

 

There's only two other condo buildings in Central Riverdale that are nice enough in my opinion to live in and those would also carry a mortgage over 500k.

[realizm]

Well we are experiencing a boom in part due to the lack of inventory, and the large amount of luxury apartments being built.

 

The availability of affordable housing is the real issue because the prices are being pushed up more and more by outsiders.

 

 

Yes that is true but at the same time whats happening is that the amount of foreclosed homes in general has risen. The real estate firms and banks collect up the foreclosed homes and raise the bar to gain a bigger profit. Which in turn prompts landlords to raise the bar on rent. Its a vicious cycle.

 

 

 

I'm going to make a huge push to start saving for a down payment starting next year.  The extra monies that I have coming in now will probably grow next year and I'm just going to take that money and throw it into the bank and start saving for a sizable downpayment.  Ideally I would like to buy a condo here in Riverdale which is not easy because there are not many one bedroom condos here since most buildings are co-op and the few that are condos are in luxury buildings, and even then there are very few one bedrooms, which may mean that I may have to up my budget and go for a two bedroom.

Good move. I think what's advisable for renters on their end is to do the same thing: Build up a nest egg to secure their rent. Save up their monthly rent ahead of time, by every 2-3 months. It worked for me.

 

 

This building that caught my eye and isn't too far from me actually has a few but those are 530k - 840k, but they are over a 1,000 sq. ft. so go figure.

 

https://streeteasy.com/building/riverstone-condo#tab_building_detail=2

 

There's only two other condo buildings in Central Riverdale that are nice enough in my opinion to live in and those would also carry a mortgage over 500k.

 

Well thats a personal decision for you to ultimately make. If say I was in your shoes and I am comfortable where you are at, and are paying lower rates now, in my opinion I would stay there, and invest in other large purchases instead (say a good car and so forth). But hey the skies the limit and you call the shots in your life I see no wrong in it.