How will Bronx folks get to the Harlem Line from one of the 4 new stops?

[RailRunRob]

Actually I said you are either from the Bronx (meaning somewhere not in Riverdale) or from Riverdale.  I wasn't sure if you grew up or not in Riverdale given how you hang out in places in the Bronx like Norwood or whatever you listed.

 

As for Riverdale and Spuyten Duyvil, given that we were talking about 4 stations in NYC, and I posted ONLY on those four stations, there was no need for me to specify other stations because the only other station in NYC on the Hudson Line that is busier based solely on numbers is Marble Hill.  I'm the one that looked up the stats, so of course I knew the ridership at other stations outside of NYC.  I thought that should've been pretty obvious, not to mention that I use the Hudson Line regularly and see how crowded the trains are before they reach Riverdale.  If I can't get a seat, which is usually the case, that must mean that ridership in stations above NYC must be pretty good don't you think?

 

As from where I am from, I am from South Brooklyn, born and raised, not the Bronx or Riverdale.

Then lets clear this up Born and raised attended PS24,PS81 and 141 for a year before private. My grandparents lived right the century on Kappock and Johnson. my Aunt in SkyView. And I lived off of Fieldston Road  I'm a Bronx boy yes.  This is way to much energy.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then lets clear this up Born and raised attended PS24,PS81 and 141 for a year before private. My grandparents lived right the century on Kappock and Johnson. my Aunt in SkyView. And I lived off of Fieldston Road  I'm a Bronx boy yes.  This is way to much energy.  

lol@Bronx boy... Anywho so why did you ask me about what I thought was poor in relation to the thread?

[RailRunRob]

Well if you need handouts (aka government assistance), you are poor (IMO). I believe the government has it defined as something like any household below 30k with a family of 4.  If you are living housing projects, you are poor (IMO) because that is funded through the government.  Usually everyone thinks of middle class as a HOUSEHOLD income meaning more than one person having a total income of 50k and then going up from there.  I believe the median household income for NYC is 54k currently.  Individuals earning 65 - 80k and up with no kids should be able to live just fine. I certainly earn more than many household incomes and do just fine.  No kids to worry about and I am young, so I eat out every day, shop at Whole Foods, etc. without any worries and so on.  If you combine say two incomes of 70k, that's a household income of $140,000, which is pretty decent.

You missed half the question where are new people going to go? Government assistance? everyones trying to beat the system. What say you   about FDNY and NYPD and all the workers there and the Disability fraud is that not government assistance? My Tax dollars at work. So yeah there a lot of people looking for handouts . I get it! Nobody wants to work day in and day out and hard for what they have to see someone get a hand out or live off the system. I know I work to hard and I don't. But I do try to give a opportunity for those trying. Ive trained some youth from underserved areas of the city in technology. So it brothers me abit when you speak with certinity of ghetto's and defining Poor. The kids I've worked with have excelled and gone on to do great things. These kids are every bit capable of learning and doing just as good as you or I with direction. I know you may feel like its not your problem. But how do people view you? I have kids coming out of Columbia,Cornell NYU and UC Cal my Alma mater working  and damn near free. I'm sure whatever you do for a living and hopefully your not in technology these kids could do it for 35k a year starting. If you can't adapt why do I need you? The points is anyone here could be in hard times.  Be proud of what you earned its yours but be humble  Im sure you came from a working family being from Brooklyn and you were lucky to have someone to show you the way. Whole Foods? no Fresh Direct? or Amazon delivery? Sub par living in the Bronx I see.. 70k a year? In NYC and SF nowadays that's going nowhere. it's 250k or better you still have a ways to go kiddo. But your young keep reaching.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You missed half the question where are new people going to go? Government assistance? everyones trying to beat the system. What say you   about FDNY and NYPD and all the workers there and the Disability fraud is that not government assistance? My Tax dollars at work. So yeah there a lot of people looking for handouts . I get it! Nobody wants to work day in and day out and hard for what they have to see someone get a hand out or live off the system. I know I work to hard and I don't. But I do try to give a opportunity for those trying. Ive trained some youth from underserved areas of the city in technology. So it brothers me abit when you speak with certinity of ghetto's and defining Poor. The kids I've worked with have excelled and gone on to do great things. These kids are every bit capable of learning and doing just as good as you or I with direction. I know you may feel like its not your problem. But how do people view you? I have kids coming out of Columbia,Cornell NYU and UC Cal my Alma mater working  and damn near free. I'm sure whatever you do for a living and hopefully your not in technology these kids could do it for 35k a year starting. If you can't adapt why do I need you? The points is anyone here could be in hard times.  Be proud of what you earned its yours but be humble  Im sure you came from a working family being from Brooklyn and you were lucky to have someone to show you the way. Whole Foods? no Fresh Direct? or Amazon delivery? Sub par living in the Bronx I see.. 70k a year? In NYC and SF nowadays that's going nowhere. it's 250k or better you still have a ways to go kiddo. But your young keep reaching.

lol That is not my salary, as I never stated what my salary was. I used that as an example of two combined salaries being a household income of 140k a year, but thanks for the reaching comment anyway.  In any event, your post makes no sense.  If someone can't survive on NYC on 70k (the number you threw out), how is anyone surviving these days on anything less? LOL That is a median household income for numerous neighborhoods in the city and again, the median household income is only 54k. lol I think most folks in the city as an individual earn maybe 30 - 40k a year unless they're in management position (as I am), laywer, doctor, finance or some other profession that pays well.

[RailRunRob]

Right which is why these numerous neighborhoods in this city are working class. the point is there's levels to this. 70k isn't a lot thats out of university money. If your making 140k combined why shouldn't I look at you like your  a middle class.  Looking down it's all the same.  isn't it the same as you looking down on someone making 20-30k? What's the difference? Please elaborate? 

[RailRunRob]

lol That is not my salary, as I never stated what my salary was. I used that as an example of two combined salaries being a household income of 140k a year, but thanks for the reaching comment anyway.  In any event, your post makes no sense.  If someone can't survive on NYC on 70k (the number you threw out), how is anyone surviving these days on anything less? LOL That is a median household income for numerous neighborhoods in the city and again, the median household income is only 54k. lol I think most folks in the city as an individual earn maybe 30 - 40k a year unless they're in management position (as I am), laywer, doctor, finance or some other profession that pays well.

From a Technology industry standpoint  70k isn't a lot. Ive seen Jr engineers make 80-90k right out of school. and full stack Eng/Developers 130-150k easy. So i don't understand why it isn't making sense?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

From a Technology industry standpoint  70k isn't a lot. Ive seen Jr engineers make 80-90k right out of school. and full stack Eng/Developers 130-150k easy. So i don't understand why it isn't making sense?

Of course it wouldn't be.  I'm well aware of what engineers can command, especially those with experience.  However, we weren't talking about from an engineering standpoint.  You asked me what I thought poor was and what was a decent salary and I based my answer on what the median household come is currently in NYC.  There are many other factors that come into play, such as expenses, children and so on.  I have seen people earning over $100,000 year who were just living paycheck to paycheck, so what someone makes isn't all that cut and dry as you're making it sound. 

 

When I used to work in construction, we had guys making 80 - 90k a year and senior managers making over 100,000 along with principals making 200,000+ a year, but is that relative to what the average New Yorker makes? No!

[RailRunRob]

Well the engineering standpoint is my standpoint. That's my background and technology is my current industry so this is my point of view  so with that where talking about it now. Now all of a sudden it isn't so cut and dry? As cut and dry as you've been making it out to be for months and years here on the forum for people of lower income generalizing and grouping. There are tons of people here on the forum that live in many places in the Bronx some in places you've down for what to make you feel good or give yourself purpose. And from my standpoint you've  moved to place that I moved up from. My mom and family moved because to many new people where moving in like yourself. But it's not fully your fault this Bronx debate has going on up in Riverdale for as long as anyone can remember. The world's a big place.  Now what people make doesn't count for everything? huh? paycheck to paycheck?. Maybe if the people you've seen making 100k with great jobs had better a education in finance they wouldn't be living check to check. upward mobilty What makes them any better then the person making 30-40k and living check to check what's the point of having knowledge and not applying all the same to me.  So from a person that's worked his ass off education and work wise I've earn everything I have. What makes you so special?  Do you do something that none of us here can with time,grit and consistency? Not putting you down I don't know you.. but why wouldn't I look at someone like yourself as a worker when I'm dealing with ADP and with taxes for people I employ? without putting to much of my personal business out there. From my POV aren't you building someone else's dream? But why shouldn't I think and look at you this way? You have your opinions and this is mine. You can't say you haven't been putting out this nose up energy for some time now. And maybe your not doing it purposely but I don't think you have the credentials so I'm bringing it into question and calling you out and asking why? This sense of entitlement is crazy and in my opinion the country is going down the drain because of it. The world!! is moving way to fast for people that can't adapt,think critically and apply and get sh*t done. We need more problem solvers not workers! There's no room moving forward in this global economy.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. Neither I nor RailRunRob was talking about where anyone lives now so you're taking upon yourself to introduce something that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

 

3. RailRunRob asked for stats for FOUR stations: University Heights, Morris Heights, Spuyten Duyvil and Riverdale, NOT Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess or anywhere NOT in NYC, which is what I listed. End of story.

1. Well, you did slightly mention it, so...

 

3. Yeah, but you said the two busiest stations on the Hudson Line, which accounts for the entire line, not just NYC, which is where you are wrong. Then just to save yourself, you manage to start "limiting" the areas you were talking about (not in westchester, well I gave you stations in Putnam and Dutchess, then you state just NYC). Amazing what youll do just to be right.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. Well, you did slightly mention it, so...

 

3. Yeah, but you said the two busiest stations on the Hudson Line, which accounts for the entire line, not just NYC, which is where you are wrong. Then just to save yourself, you manage to start "limiting" the areas you were talking about (not in westchester, well I gave you stations in Putnam and Dutchess, then

you state just NYC). Amazing what youll do just to be right.

I didn't slightly mention anything.  You can only be from one place, period, and I'm from Brooklyn.  Nothing "slightly" about it.

 

I know what I said, but as I said now numerous times, we were originally talking about 4 stations, not all stations along the Hudson Line and I only posted information on those 4 stations, all of which are in where? NYC.

[RailRunRob]

I didn't slightly mention anything.  You can only be from one place, period, and I'm from Brooklyn.  Nothing "slightly" about it.

 

I know what I said, but as I said now numerous times, we were originally talking about 4 stations, not all stations along the Hudson Line and I only posted information on those 4 stations, all of which are in where? NYC.

Well your home is Brooklyn. lets not hear anymore talk of Riverdale a place you currently live and RENT in. Let me be fair and ask are you renting or do you own? If your not vested you shouldn't be claiming. And yes we do own our place in Brooklyn. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I didn't slightly mention anything.  You can only be from one place, period, and I'm from Brooklyn.  Nothing "slightly" about it.

 

I know what I said, but as I said now numerous times, we were originally talking about 4 stations, not all stations along the Hudson Line and I only posted information on those 4 stations, all of which are in where? NYC.

Bold underline: Good, so when we all corrected you, you could've at least have considered a mistake or something, and move on. However, you had to keep on modifying everything (especially when you were then saying oh no, I wasn't talking westchester, then oh no, I'm not talking about westchester, dutchess, nor putnam). We don't read minds.

[FritzSpitz]

Calm yourselves, ladies.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bold underline: Good, so when we all corrected you, you could've at least have considered a mistake or something, and move on. However, you had to keep on modifying everything (especially when you were then saying oh no, I wasn't talking westchester, then oh no, I'm not talking about westchester, dutchess, nor putnam). We don't read minds.

Well that's what happens when you jump into discussions and aren't following what's going on.  I didn't feel it necessary to clarify myself because I knew what I was responding to.  A specific member asked for specific information and I provided it to that person, hence why I quoted them and not you or anyone else.

 

Well your home is Brooklyn. lets not hear anymore talk of Riverdale a place you currently live and RENT in. Let me be fair and ask are you renting or do you own? If your not vested you shouldn't be claiming. And yes we do own our place in Brooklyn. 

No matter where I live Brooklyn will always be my home.  As far as Riverdale goes, I really don't know what will happen here.  My plan had been to stay here, but given the current project that is in limbo that we are fighting to stop, which I'm sure you're aware of, if it comes to reality, it may change my plans completely and would negatively affect property values, so I am not making any moves to purchase here until this situation is sorted out because I don't want to be stuck with a property where I owe more than the property is worth, not to mention that I would be putting a substantial percentage of my own money down aside from the mortgage, so for now I'm renting a nice apartment with a balcony and so on which suits my needs just fine, and have been looking at several properties here in Riverdale that I am considering and following where properties are selling and where they are sitting.  But yes, I agree with you, you must be vested in the neighborhood that you live in.  That's something else that apparently officials are thinking about, that property values would increase around those new Metro-North stations.  I think that's true in some cases and not true in others.  I'm sure the South Bronx has very LOW ownership given how few condos and co-ops are there, so in those cases, I'm not sure property values would increase that much.  Here in Riverdale though, we have high ownership, so good transportation along with other amenities helps to increase property values in some areas of the neighborhood

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well that's what happens when you jump into discussions and aren't following what's going on.  I didn't feel it necessary to clarify myself because I knew what I was responding to.  A specific member asked for specific information and I provided it to that person, hence why I quoted them and not you or anyone else.

Jumping to conclusions my ass. You said what you said (and you yourself knew what you said, you said it here, not me). You are so on top of spelling and grammatical errors and doing things to the nail, and when it comes to this, "oh, I didn't feel it necessary to clarify myself". I was here since there first page, constantly reading this thread. You know how vague that statement was, yet you'll still all the blame off yourself. 

 

You then tell me that's not what you meant TWICE (not once, but twice). What does that tell me: That you didn't know the rest of Hudson Line ridership, and that you were wrong.

 

So you can eat that "Jumping to conclusions" for dinner.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Jumping to conclusions my ass. You said what you said (and you yourself knew what you said, you said it here, not me). You are so on top of spelling and grammatical errors and doing things to the nail, and when it comes to this, "oh, I didn't feel it necessary to clarify myself". I was here since there first page, constantly reading this thread. You know how vague that statement was, yet you'll still all the blame off yourself. 

 

You then tell me that's not what you meant TWICE (not once, but twice). What does that tell me: That you didn't know the rest of Hudson Line ridership, and that you were wrong.

 

So you can eat that "Jumping to conclusions" for dinner.

LOL... I'm the one that found the stats online and posted the link, and in order to do that I had to sort through all of them.  When I originally tried to copy and post the stats for all of the stations, they came out a mess on here, so I edited all of them and only posted the stats for the four stations that RailRunRob asked about so as not to have to fix the layout for all of the stations, so I was well aware of the ridership at the other stations along the Hudson Line, but thanks anyway.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

LOL... I'm the one that found the stats online and posted the link, and in order to do that I had to sort through all of them.  When I originally tried to copy and post the stats for all of the stations, they came out a mess on here, so I edited all of them and only posted the stats for the four stations that RailRunRob asked about so as not to have to fix the layout for all of the stations, so I was well aware of the ridership at the other stations along the Hudson Line, but thanks anyway.

Didn't seem like it in the past 3-4 pages (even with the links)...

________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

In other words, I think we should try to get this back on topic.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I just wonder if these stations will be altered or scrapped if they can't get the funding for the capital project... 

[bobtehpanda]

I just wonder if these stations will be altered or scrapped if they can't get the funding for the capital project... 

 

Well, the service can't start unless ESA wraps up, which is projected for 2023, so they'll probably just kick it down the line to the next Capital Plan.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, the service can't start unless ESA wraps up, which is projected for 2023, so they'll probably just kick it down the line to the next Capital Plan.

Yeah, so this plan may not even happen.... lol

[qjtransitmaster]

Calm yourselves, ladies.

  why you think I post less now? Nobody has time to argue for 4 plus pages.

Jumping to conclusions my ass. You said what you said (and you yourself knew what you said, you said it here, not me). You are so on top of spelling and grammatical errors and doing things to the nail, and when it comes to this, "oh, I didn't feel it necessary to clarify myself". I was here since there first page, constantly reading this thread. You know how vague that statement was, yet you'll still all the blame off yourself. 

 

You then tell me that's not what you meant TWICE (not once, but twice). What does that tell me: That you didn't know the rest of Hudson Line ridership, and that you were wrong.

 

So you can eat that "Jumping to conclusions" for dinner.

 calm down and take a chill pill. 

Well the engineering standpoint is my standpoint. That's my background and technology is my current industry so this is my point of view  so with that where talking about it now. Now all of a sudden it isn't so cut and dry? As cut and dry as you've been making it out to be for months and years here on the forum for people of lower income generalizing and grouping. There are tons of people here on the forum that live in many places in the Bronx some in places you've down for what to make you feel good or give yourself purpose. And from my standpoint you've  moved to place that I moved up from. My mom and family moved because to many new people where moving in like yourself. But it's not fully your fault this Bronx debate has going on up in Riverdale for as long as anyone can remember. The world's a big place.  Now what people make doesn't count for everything? huh? paycheck to paycheck?. Maybe if the people you've seen making 100k with great jobs had better a education in finance they wouldn't be living check to check. upward mobilty What makes them any better then the person making 30-40k and living check to check what's the point of having knowledge and not applying all the same to me.  So from a person that's worked his ass off education and work wise I've earn everything I have. What makes you so special?  Do you do something that none of us here can with time,grit and consistency? Not putting you down I don't know you.. but why wouldn't I look at someone like yourself as a worker when I'm dealing with ADP and with taxes for people I employ? without putting to much of my personal business out there. From my POV aren't you building someone else's dream? But why shouldn't I think and look at you this way? You have your opinions and this is mine. You can't say you haven't been putting out this nose up energy for some time now. And maybe your not doing it purposely but I don't think you have the credentials so I'm bringing it into question and calling you out and asking why? This sense of entitlement is crazy and in my opinion the country is going down the drain because of it. The world!! is moving way to fast for people that can't adapt,think critically and apply and get sh*t done. We need more problem solvers not workers! There's no room moving forward in this global economy.

OK so you work in tech how did you get started?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

calm down and take a chill pill. 

How does that even make me look like I'm angry or something (and I wasn't and still not angry)

 

Yeah, I said "my ass" and "eat that", and?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well the engineering standpoint is my standpoint. That's my background and technology is my current industry so this is my point of view  so with that where talking about it now. Now all of a sudden it isn't so cut and dry? As cut and dry as you've been making it out to be for months and years here on the forum for people of lower income generalizing and grouping. There are tons of people here on the forum that live in many places in the Bronx some in places you've down for what to make you feel good or give yourself purpose. And from my standpoint you've  moved to place that I moved up from. My mom and family moved because to many new people where moving in like yourself. But it's not fully your fault this Bronx debate has going on up in Riverdale for as long as anyone can remember. The world's a big place.  Now what people make doesn't count for everything? huh? paycheck to paycheck?. Maybe if the people you've seen making 100k with great jobs had better a education in finance they wouldn't be living check to check. upward mobilty What makes them any better then the person making 30-40k and living check to check what's the point of having knowledge and not applying all the same to me.  So from a person that's worked his ass off education and work wise I've earn everything I have. What makes you so special?  Do you do something that none of us here can with time,grit and consistency? Not putting you down I don't know you.. but why wouldn't I look at someone like yourself as a worker when I'm dealing with ADP and with taxes for people I employ? without putting to much of my personal business out there. From my POV aren't you building someone else's dream? But why shouldn't I think and look at you this way? You have your opinions and this is mine. You can't say you haven't been putting out this nose up energy for some time now. And maybe your not doing it purposely but I don't think you have the credentials so I'm bringing it into question and calling you out and asking why? This sense of entitlement is crazy and in my opinion the country is going down the drain because of it. The world!! is moving way to fast for people that can't adapt,think critically and apply and get sh*t done. We need more problem solvers not workers! There's no room moving forward in this global economy.

Actually it doesn't matter what one's profession is.  I have my job in the management area, but I also consultant on the side and have been working on side ventures eventually to work solely for myself and no one else, but everyone is different.  Since I run my own department, I know that I am capable of working for myself, and so far have been pretty good at it, but that's not for everyone.  You asked me to define poor and I did.  Upward mobility is certainly not cut and dry esp. with the examples I gave because it all depends on the individual as to what they think is upward mobility and what that is based on, so I used the median household income as an example, since quite frankly, upward mobility is pretty subjective, but then again so is poverty. 

 

As far as me putting my nose in the air, I believe in hard work and not looking for handouts, so while you may find it offensive or whatever, I take issue with people that drain the system and look to take from others.  In my mind people that want to be (and are successful) pride themselves in working to obtain what they want, and those who are business owners or even work for themselves (be it part time or full time) are the creative folks that are out here helping to grow the American economy, and that's something that's highly respected.  There are a lot of small business owners here and that's a great thing.  A friend of mine started his own company a few years ago and is asking that I join him in running it, which is something that I'm considering doing given my experience in project management and consulting, so yes while you're in the engineering field, I certainly have nothing to be ashamed of. I have achieved quite a bit at my age, have traveled the world in my 20s, speak several languages and do just fine for myself.  Moving to Riverdale, was not moving up for me.  I lived nicely in Europe in a very expensive area of Italy with my own money (not from mommy and daddy either), so I am accustomed to the good life.  Moving to Riverdale was nothing more than me escaping one suburban area to another since I have no desire to live in Manhattan.  My next move if I did leave the city would be to Westchester, and I wouldn't consider that "moving up" either quite frankly even if I moved to the Katonahs, the Scardales or Chappaquas of the area. Nevertheless plenty of people wouldn't mind living in Riverdale. It's one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in NYC, and why I decided to move there for the peace and quiet and proximity to Manhattan, not to mention the great mansions in Fieldston.  It is a unique neighborhood, with the perfect mix of suburban and city life.

[RailRunRob]

Actually it doesn't matter what one's profession is.  I have my job in the management area, but I also consultant on the side and have been working on side ventures eventually to work solely for myself and no one else, but everyone is different.  Since I run my own department, I know that I am capable of working for myself, and so far have been pretty good at it, but that's not for everyone.  You asked me to define poor and I did.  Upward mobility is certainly not cut and dry esp. with the examples I gave because it all depends on the individual as to what they think is upward mobility and what that is based on, so I used the median household income as an example, since quite frankly, upward mobility is pretty subjective, but then again so is poverty. 

 

As far as me putting my nose in the air, I believe in hard work and not looking for handouts, so while you may find it offensive or whatever, I take issue with people that drain the system and look to take from others.  In my mind people that want to be (and are successful) pride themselves in working to obtain what they want, and those who are business owners or even work for themselves (be it part time or full time) are the creative folks that are out here helping to grow the American economy, and that's something that's highly respected.  There are a lot of small business owners here and that's a great thing.  A friend of mine started his own company a few years ago and is asking that I join him in running it, which is something that I'm considering doing given my experience in project management and consulting, so yes while you're in the engineering field, I certainly have nothing to be ashamed of. I have achieved quite a bit at my age, have traveled the world in my 20s, speak several languages and do just fine for myself.  Moving to Riverdale, was not moving up for me.  I lived nicely in Europe in a very expensive area of Italy with my own money (not from mommy and daddy either), so I am accustomed to the good life.  Moving to Riverdale was nothing more than me escaping one suburban area to another since I have no desire to live in Manhattan.  My next move if I did leave the city would be to Westchester, and I wouldn't consider that "moving up" either quite frankly even if I moved to the Katonahs, the Scardales or Chappaquas of the area. Nevertheless plenty of people wouldn't mind living in Riverdale. It's one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in NYC, and why I decided to move there for the peace and quiet and proximity to Manhattan, not to mention the great mansions in Fieldston.  It is a unique neighborhood, with the perfect mix of suburban and city life.

 

I respect anyone that rolls there sleeves up and works for what they want in life. You should absolutely be proud of your achievements and accolades. London and Helsinki are both places I've called home so this convo isn't as esoteric as one might think but I don't think anyone else cares to much about our pissing contest so ill spare them. But yes you're correct my morals and guiding principles do find issue with some of your comments about people you feel are looking for handouts and as you said draining the system. Haven't come across a person yet receiving help that didn't really need it. And have never come across a person that didn't want to better for themselves if shown a better way to do something or another option. So it's easy to say I believe in working hard. But a person needs to be shown how and exposed to principles to understand and become that hard worker and productive in society. You used a fitting word. Subjective. No child is born a hard worker its learned and passed on. I find it somewhat impossible that you can hold someone to your standards. It's to assume that someone understands or see's the big picture. A lot of people don't understand and don't see any way out of their situation despite general consensus. Holding A person responsible means they're fully cognizant of the world around them 7 out 10 times there not. Ive seen people come from humble starts and do great things with guidance. Tho there are people trying to beat the system they also come in all shapes and colors NYPD being in there as well thats everywhere? Bottom line what does any of this has to do with most of topics we talk about here on transportation?. Im not a rail fan like most but I like to keep up the transportation topics and I enjoy the ideas and statements can we just keep the personal personal  out abit? Everything works bit smoother when we all have respect for each other. And a boss never talks about what he's doing because he's to busy actually doing it if you have it great there no need to talk about it. Its your option and your entitled to it but can we not go overboard? Thats all I'm saying nothing more nothing less.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I respect anyone that rolls there sleeves up and works for what they want in life. You should absolutely be proud of your achievements and accolades. London and Helsinki are both places I've called home so this convo isn't as esoteric as one might think but I don't think anyone else cares to much about our pissing contest so ill spare them. But yes you're correct my morals and guiding principles do find issue with some of your comments about people you feel are looking for handouts and as you said draining the system. Haven't come across a person yet receiving help that didn't really need it. And have never come across a person that didn't want to better for themselves if shown a better way to do something or another option. So it's easy to say I believe in working hard. But a person needs to be shown how and exposed to principles to understand and become that hard worker and productive in society. You used a fitting word. Subjective. No child is born a hard worker its learned and passed on. I find it somewhat impossible that you can hold someone to your standards. It's to assume that someone understands or see's the big picture. A lot of people don't understand and don't see any way out of their situation despite general consensus. Holding A person responsible means they're fully cognizant of the world around them 7 out 10 times there not. Ive seen people come from humble starts and do great things with guidance. Tho there are people trying to beat the system they also come in all shapes and colors NYPD being in there as well thats everywhere? Bottom line what does any of this has to do with most of topics we talk about here on transportation?. Im not a rail fan like most but I like to keep up the transportation topics and I enjoy the ideas and statements can we just keep the personal personal  out abit? Everything works bit smoother when we all have respect for each other. And a boss never talks about what he's doing because he's to busy actually doing it if you have it great there no need to talk about it. Its your option and your entitled to it but can we not go overboard? Thats all I'm saying nothing more nothing less.

Money and economic standing believe it or not has a lot to do transportation.  Funding for projects, whether or not people can afford certain types of transit and so on, so it's quite relevant. If you want to stay on topic, don't ask me questions about who is poor and who is middle class.  I'm still not sure what they had to do with this discussion, but me talking about whether or not people can afford to ride Metro-North is quite relevant because if they can't then there is no point in building some of these proposed stations.