How will Bronx folks get to the Harlem Line from one of the 4 new stops?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well my money is taking care of your precious express buses to your precious Riverdale. I don't take them yet I have to pay taxes on.

 

It's ridiculous that there are lack of rapid transit options for the east bronx.

LOL... Please... The didn't finish extending the subway into Riverdale.  That's not our fault.  It would be much more expensive to extend that today than providing the current express bus service, and aside from that we would vehemently oppose it anyway, so that isn't happening.  The city agreed years ago to subsidize areas with funding for express bus service that required two fares in order to get to Manhattan.  If they didn't do that then numerous neighborhoods throughout the city wouldn't be as desirable as they are today.  Developments like Co-Op City in the Bronx were created with the promise from the city that they would have good transportation, and the same applies with Riverdale and other New York City neighborhoods.  The difference is the city did that with the idea that the service would actually be used, not having stations like Melrose, Tremont, etc. where people barely use Metro-North.

[bobtehpanda]

They need to eventally complete all phases of the SAS and start that subway to the Bronx which will solve alot of problems. Not sure if the MTA recieved funds in full because of the strife of spending between the MTA and Albany. The MTA will see to it a Bronx sopur is added past 116th Street a straight norh shot probably TBMs to make the connection. (Doubt they will mess with existing IRT lines not that they cant it could do it with many portions up to Dual Contracts standards, some it it).

 

The new line extended from the SAS will funally fix the Bronx probme. Its a long time in the waiting I know.

 

To be honest, I see that line going up Third instead of heading to the East Bronx. But I digress.

[RailRunRob]

LOL... Please... The didn't finish extending the subway into Riverdale.  That's not our fault.  It would be much more expensive to extend that today than providing the current express bus service, and aside from that we would vehemently oppose it anyway, so that isn't happening.  The city agreed years ago to subsidize areas with funding for express bus service that required two fares in order to get to Manhattan.  If they didn't do that then numerous neighborhoods throughout the city wouldn't be as desirable as they are today.  Developments like Co-Op City in the Bronx were created with the promise from the city that they would have good transportation, and the same applies with Riverdale and other New York City neighborhoods.  The difference is the city did that with the idea that the service would actually be used, not having stations like Melrose, Tremont, etc. where people barely use Metro-North.

Were there plans to extend beyond 242nd?  The one thing I can say as well is that the stations in question were inherited from there predecessor railroads. I wonder in the grand scheme where these stations used more heavily at some point and maybe patrons dwindled as the neighborhoods changed back in the 60's? or were they just never used from jump?

[qjtransitmaster]

lol... I don't think the wants more low performing Metro-North stations... They already have 4 of them in the Bronx....

2 or em can go and won't be missed. The other 2 sadly have no other options bxm3 ain't it if you need to get to Westchester & Rockland via tzx or upstate.

[RailRunRob]

2 or em can go and won't be missed. The other 2 sadly have no other options bxm3 ain't it if you need to get to Westchester & Rockland via tzx or upstate.

Can we get subtitles or translation for this one? or both  Lol 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Were there plans to extend beyond 242nd?  The one thing I can say as well is that the stations in question were inherited from there predecessor railroads. I wonder in the grand scheme where these stations used more heavily at some point and maybe patrons dwindled as the neighborhoods changed back in the 60's? or were they just never used from jump?

Yep... Not happening now though...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 or em can go and won't be missed. The other 2 sadly have no other options bxm3 ain't it if you need to get to Westchester & Rockland via tzx or upstate.

Well, the BxM3 is good for Yonkers and nearby neighborhoods. It even has that late AM reverse peak schedule as well (well, only for Harlem and CGT customers). The BxM4 had that too (but was so overserved it wasn't funny). Regardless, I do feel that these lines exist, because they probably planned, or thought that the MTA would've eventually scrutinized train service to NYC from these areas, especially on the weekends to the point where it's unusable. I mean, that's just my theory. Look how careful Liberty Lines scheduled it though (BxM1/2 covering Riverdale, Spuyten Duyvil, and Marble Hill; the BxM3 covering Ludlow and Yonkers, University Heights, and Morris Heights; BxM4 serving all the Harlem Line Stops except Williams Bridge and Wakefield, served by the BxM11, which also supplemented Woodlawn). I think it's actually pretty clever in a way. The BxM1/2 do well though, and so does the BxM3. Unfortunately, the BxM4 was the only bus not to gain ridership by any MNRR commuters, since the Harlem was the least used (within the Bronx, towards the city) to NYC. 

 

If all of a sudden, they made MNRR Trains run at erratic intervals or skip stops during most of the day (and just go into Manhattan from Westchester), you could possibly see a surge in ridership on all those routes. on top of the ridership already existing.

Another reason theses buses operated like that was because of deadheading. These routes terminate near the depot anyways, so for the most part, it was a "win-win" for LLE. 

[qjtransitmaster]

Can we get subtitles or translation for this one? or both  Lol 

he got banned but bm5 answered part of it. The other is that the tremont and Melrose stations can go bye bye but the university heights and Morris heights are needed since unlike the lower Harlem line have no subway or SBS alternatives especially for those going upstate and are also a way around the I-87 traffic.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, the BxM3 is good for Yonkers and nearby neighborhoods. It even has that late AM reverse peak schedule as well (well, only for Harlem and CGT customers). The BxM4 had that too (but was so overserved it wasn't funny). Regardless, I do feel that these lines exist, because they probably planned, or thought that the MTA would've eventually scrutinized train service to NYC from these areas, especially on the weekends to the point where it's unusable. I mean, that's just my theory. Look how careful Liberty Lines scheduled it though (BxM1/2 covering Riverdale, Spuyten Duyvil, and Marble Hill; the BxM3 covering Ludlow and Yonkers, University Heights, and Morris Heights; BxM4 serving all the Harlem Line Stops except Williams Bridge and Wakefield, served by the BxM11, which also supplemented Woodlawn). I think it's actually pretty clever in a way. The BxM1/2 do well though, and so does the BxM3. Unfortunately, the BxM4 was the only bus not to gain ridership by any MNRR commuters, since the Harlem was the least used (within the Bronx, towards the city) to NYC. 

 

If all of a sudden, they made MNRR Trains run at erratic intervals or skip stops during most of the day (and just go into Manhattan from Westchester), you could possibly see a surge in ridership on all those routes. on top of the ridership already existing.

Another reason theses buses operated like that was because of deadheading. These routes terminate near the depot anyways, so for the most part, it was a "win-win" for LLE. 

The key to the BxM4 is what happens along the Concourse and Norwood in terms of gentrification.  Woodlawn will get its riders, as sometimes its the Woodlawn folks that use the bus on weekends and late nights, but during the peak periods, usage at the first two stops is good, and then nothing really until say Fordham Rd and up in Bedford Park.  Norwood is still in transition but helped by the presence of Montefiore.  Bedford Park has a chance to provide more ridership for the BxM4 if gentrification from Manhattan continues to push people into the Bronx in those areas who can afford the express bus.  They need to keep service levels on the BxM4 where they are and try to keep buses on time and then go from there, but I see the ridership comes from since I use it 2 - 3 days a week,  both peak and off-peak, all the way to Katonah and 242nd.

[qjtransitmaster]

Time to kill the thread now.

The key to the BxM4 is what happens along the Concourse and Norwood in terms of gentrification. Woodlawn will get its riders, as sometimes its the Woodlawn folks that use the bus on weekends and late nights, but during the peak periods, usage at the first two stops is good, and then nothing really until say Fordham Rd and up in Bedford Park. Norwood is still in transition but helped by the presence of Montefiore. Bedford Park has a chance to provide more ridership for the BxM4 if gentrification from Manhattan continues to push people into the Bronx in those areas who can afford the express bus. They need to keep service levels on the BxM4 where they are and try to keep buses on time and then go from there, but I see the ridership comes from since I use it 2 - 3 days a week, both peak and off-peak, all the way to Katonah and 242nd.

ain't those areas where the express is ? Gentrification has limits. Just cause people can afford something doesn't mean they will use it. But then again it is pointless as sense can't reach everyone.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Time to kill the thread now.

ain't those areas where the express is ? Gentrification has limits. Just cause people can afford something doesn't mean they will use it. But then again it is pointless as sense can't reach everyone.

Some parts of Bedford Park and Norwood where the BxM4 run are hilly and the train is not that close by. What you also fail to realize is that the bus serves many people who are disabled and are elderly so the service is needed.

[qjtransitmaster]

Some parts of Bedford Park and Norwood where the BxM4 run are hilly and the train is not that close by. What you also fail to realize is that the bus serves many people who are disabled and are elderly so the service is needed.

another reason to modify other routes. And fare structure of commuter rail within the city which would prove cheaper to do.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

another reason to modify other routes. And fare structure of commuter rail within the city which would prove cheaper to do.

For what? That has nothing to do with accessibility and people being disabled....

[qjtransitmaster]

Bx26 to botanical gardens bx41 SBS to accessible stations have you paid attention to existing service at all. Transit is a mix of bus and rail working together. Explain elderly subway riders.

[bobtehpanda]

Bx26 to botanical gardens bx41 SBS to accessible stations have you paid attention to existing service at all. Transit is a mix of bus and rail working together. Explain elderly subway riders.

 

So, because the disabled can't get around easily, they should be forced to make a transfer to a train, to get to a destination station which may not even be wheelchair accessible? There are no wheelchair-accessible stations between 125th St and 51st St on Lexington Avenue, and besides that the distance between Lexington and Madison or 5th would be very difficult for those who aren't able-bodied.

[paulrivera]

It's not like they didn't try closing up Tremont, and especially Melrose.

 

Here's a NY Times article about Melrose station closing and Tremont becoming weekday-only in 1988. Presumably, it looks like a group of politicians and developers (not residents) ended up saving Melrose from closing full time at the last second.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/nyregion/trains-end-bronx-stop-who-cares-and-why.html

[qjtransitmaster]

So, because the disabled can't get around easily, they should be forced to make a transfer to a train, to get to a destination station which may not even be wheelchair accessible? There are no wheelchair-accessible stations between 125th St and 51st St on Lexington Avenue, and besides that the distance between Lexington and Madison or 5th would be very difficult for those who aren't able-bodied.

same excuse. Different words blah blah just stop. Every low use service in the country has high elderly ridership. Ltd buses are available not dragging this on.

[bobtehpanda]

same excuse. Different words blah blah just stop. Every low use service in the country has high elderly ridership. Ltd buses are available not dragging this on.

 

So, because disabled people aren't important, they should make a two bus, one train, two-fare transfer, instead of a one seat ride.

 

The amount of selfishness out of some members of this forum is mind-boggling.

[qjtransitmaster]

2 buses cost $2.50 next last reply old saying " use it well or lose it" 12 empty trips for a handful of people is not useful. If only 3 or em carry more than a dozen.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 buses cost $2.50 next last reply old saying " use it well or lose it" 12 empty trips for a handful of people is not useful. If only 3 or em carry more than a dozen.

Just be quiet already.  You don't even use express buses. You would have credibility if you actually used the line but you don't. I do and quite regularly I may add.

[qjtransitmaster]

Just be quiet already. You don't even use express buses. You would have credibility if you actually used the line but you don't. I do and quite regularly I may add.

I use all services express buses included you have proven before to be incapable of reason. You aren't worth my time. Some body please close the thread it is no longer useful.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I use all services express buses included you have proven before to be incapable of reason. You aren't worth my time. Some body please close the thread it is no longer useful.

You don't use all of anything because if you did you wouldn't need to ask about ridership patterns and so on.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The problem with the BxM4 is that it's ridership mainly comes from Woodlawn, and Woodlawn itself isn't such a big neighborhood.

 

Ridership also isn't similar to the BxM's in terms of areas were primary ridership bases come from. I can see why the UES would be a destination.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The problem with the BxM4 is that it's ridership mainly comes from Woodlawn, and Woodlawn itself isn't such a big neighborhood.

 

Ridership also isn't similar to the BxM's in terms of areas were primary ridership bases come from. I can see why the UES would be a destination.

Actually that is not true. During the weekends that is somewhat true Southbound, esp. for stops above Grand Central in particular where the BxM4 makes more sense, because it's faster to and from Woodlawn off-peak and on weekends. During the rush a lot of the ridership comes from the first two stops (158-161st and Grand Concourse, and 165th and Grand Concourse).  Half of the seated bus load can get off at those first two stops.  After that you get maybe one person here and there until Fordham Rd, then the remaining folks start getting off in Bedford Park, Rochambeau Av up in Norwood, the stop by Montefiore and then maybe one stop by Bainbridge.  After that there's a handful of people going to Woodlawn or Southeast Yonkers.

 

The folks in Woodlawn that need Grand Central are too busy using Metro-North which stinks because service to Woodlawn on the Harlem line is NOT that frequent, and the trains are usually overcrowded, so you would think that they would use the BxM4 more.  I hate to say it but I also think the folks in Woodlawn don't care for having to ride with the folks along the Concourse. If they had super express BxM4's I think more folks would use them but having to go down the Concourse can be 30 minutes alone and is a big chunk of the route.

[qjtransitmaster]

Actually that is not true. During the weekends that is somewhat true Southbound, esp. for stops above Grand Central in particular where the BxM4 makes more sense, because it's faster to and from Woodlawn off-peak and on weekends. During the rush a lot of the ridership comes from the first two stops (158-161st and Grand Concourse, and 165th and Grand Concourse). Half of the seated bus load can get off at those first two stops. After that you get maybe one person here and there until Fordham Rd, then the remaining folks start getting off in Bedford Park, Rochambeau Av up in Norwood, the stop by Montefiore and then maybe one stop by Bainbridge. After that there's a handful of people going to Woodlawn or Southeast Yonkers.

 

The folks in Woodlawn that need Grand Central are too busy using Metro-North which stinks because service to Woodlawn on the Harlem line is NOT that frequent, and the trains are usually overcrowded, so you would think that they would use the BxM4 more. I hate to say it but I also think the folks in Woodlawn don't care for having to ride with the folks along the Concourse. If they had super express BxM4's I think more folks would use them but having to go down the Concourse can be 30 minutes alone and is a big chunk of the route.

I see interesting theory but one issue one does not simply run super express at rush hour along I-87 major (failure) sorry I meant deegan. Well metro-north at Woodlawn may not be that frequent BUT it is STILL more frequent than bxm4 compare schedules you know it is true. Question what do bxm3 riders or Riverdale ones think about bxm4 riders? I am talking peak hour ones.