IRT Astoria and BMT Flushing

[TheNewYorkElevated]

As most of you know, when the old elelavted lines exsisted back then, the BMT used to be able to head to Flushing, and the IRT used to be able to head to Astoria. This meant that they were able to share lines after Queensboro Plaza. This has since been permanently discontinued. Would it be still possible today?

[ttcsubwayfan]

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/IRT_Flushing_Line

 

As I understand it, the BMT had to have special IRT configured rolling stock in order to be able to run to Flushing. It's slightly confusing so I can't know 100%, but this quote pretty much implies that to be the case:

 

 

 

The BMT showcase cars, the 67' standards, D-Types and multi-sectioned cars, could not run on this part of the subway because the Flushing Line was still jointly served by the BMT and IRT, with equipment that had to be manufactured to IRT standards.

 

The Flushing line has not been served by the BMT since 1949. It would not be possible to do so today. Ditto with the IRT running on the Astoria line.

[NewFlyer 230]

Imagine how greatly the can benefit if the stations were built to IND/BMT standards. A 10 car R160 on the would be amazing especially since that line is always crowded. I always never like riding the IRT lines because they feel so tight and cramped. I don't really care when I catch an ex R142A on the because they look even more smaller on the inside than the R62A and they are very dirty. I thought the MTA would at least trick people into thinking that there are brand new trains on the line. Oh well you can't have it all I suppose.

[Eric B]

What's stopping them from converting it is the river tunnel to Manhattan, which can't be widened. The rest of the line could be converted (it was built to Dual Contracts standards), but would have nowhere to go, or have to be squeezed through 60th st. with the other BMT lines, and there is no capacity for that, of course.

[Mysterious2train]

As most of you know, when the old elelavted lines exsisted back then, the BMT used to be able to head to Flushing, and the IRT used to be able to head to Astoria. This meant that they were able to share lines after Queensboro Plaza. This has since been permanently discontinued. Would it be still possible today?

 

 

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/IRT_Flushing_Line

 

As I understand it, the BMT had to have special IRT configured rolling stock in order to be able to run to Flushing. It's slightly confusing so I can't know 100%, but this quote pretty much implies that to be the case:

 

The Flushing line has not been served by the BMT since 1949. It would not be possible to do so today. Ditto with the IRT running on the Astoria line.

 

This was already mentioned, but just to clarify: When the Astoria and Corona/Flushing Lines opened in 1917, both lines were IRT-sized. The Flushing Line has always been IRT-sized. The BMT and IRT jointly owned these lines. IRT trains ran on both lines. The BMT used special IRT-sized cars that also served both lines. These odd trains (BMT trains, but using IRT-size cars) only ran between Astoria/Flushing and Queensboro Plaza. Actual BMT-sized trains from the Broadway Line also terminated at Queensboro Plaza starting in 1920, because they were too big to run on either line. Passengers transferred between BMT Broadway Line trains and the BMT Queens trains at Queensboro Plaza. The station had an additional, demolished platform that was used by trains terminating there; Wikipedia talks more about more it. 

 

So, just to summarize, if you were at an Astoria or Flushing Line station, you could have one of the following services:

- IRT trains running to 42nd St via the Steinway Tunnel

- IRT trains running to Lower Manhattan via the Queensborough Bridge and the 2nd Av Elevated (this service was discontinued in 1942 when the 2nd Av El was demolished)

- BMT trains (using IRT-sized cars) that terminated at Queensboro Plaza, where you could transfer for BMT service to the Broadway Line

 

And in 1949, the Astoria Line platforms were shaved back to accommodate BMT-sized trains. Broadway Line trains ran to Astoria, and all trains from Times Square ran to Flushing, basically creating the service we have today.  

[Eric B]

Should specify that these "IRT-sized BMT cars" were simply old elevated cars, which on both systems were about the same size (I think including the Q types which were so named for being former gate cars converted into enclosed cars for the service)

[Kamen Rider]

Q was for Queens, encolsed for use as World's Fair shuttle trains.

[Union Tpke]

What's stopping them from converting it is the river tunnel to Manhattan, which can't be widened. The rest of the line could be converted (it was built to Dual Contracts standards), but would have nowhere to go, or have to be squeezed through 60th st. with the other BMT lines, and there is no capacity for that, of course.

build another tunnel. Problem solved.

[NewFlyer 230]

build another tunnel. Problem solved.

Not that easy at all. First you are going to need space and second where the that money coming from. We are lucky if we see phase two of the 2nd Ave line anytime in our lifetime. That line has been promised way back since there was an EL on top of the street.

[Kamen Rider]

Also, if I remember right, the two branches were city owned, assigned operationally to the IRT, but the BMT was given what amounted to payment free trackage rights in perpetuity.