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Future of third ave bus line BX15?


jolusoji

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It a long time I have not post anything here.I am worried about the future of the third ave line Bx15 Local and Limited.Based on the recent ridership trends on the route and Bus system overall.The line has been declined in terms of reliability,passenger numbers.It feel the setup we have here is a failure of 2 routes mixed into one.Is they any plans to address this issue?Thanks

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It a long time I have not post anything here.I am worried about the future of the third ave line Bx15 Local and Limited.Based on the recent ridership trends on the route and Bus system overall.The line has been declined in terms of reliability,passenger numbers.It feel the setup we have here is a failure of 2 routes mixed into one.Is they any plans to address this issue?Thanks

lol... Yeah how many farebeaters are there on that line? It isn't just the line declining due to reliability.  Fewer people paying, more people moving to the area that are likely working class that may drive versus people who were really poor and could only afford the bus.  A lot of things happening in the Bronx...

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The Bx15 decline has not been that bad considering the citywide trend of decline. Not only that but a couple hundred ppl along 125th street now opt for the M60 select. The Bx15local and limited combined still make it the 12th heaviest used line in all of TA. Forebearing is definitely one of the causes for decline as well. More people are taking chances and it's very easy to slip through the rear door on a packed bus.

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The Bx15 decline has not been that bad considering the citywide trend of decline. Not only that but a couple hundred ppl along 125th street now opt for the M60 select. The Bx15local and limited combined still make it the 12th heaviest used line in all of TA. Forebearing is definitely one of the causes for decline as well. More people are taking chances and it's very easy to slip through the rear door on a packed bus.

I can attest to that... A few times I've needed the bus along 125th to reach the Metro-North station. The M60 is faster.

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I can attest to that... A few times I've needed the bus along 125th to reach the Metro-North station. The M60 is faster.

That's the only way I travel on 125 now, even if I may have to walk a block. For the past decade I would take whatever bus came first.

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Okay how do you go about calculating farebeating stats and proving they correlate to its decline? I disagree with that notion, when I've seen 30+ minute waits at the northern terminal and there's no one regulating/stopping 3-5 buses from leaving at the same time.

You mean the (MTA)?

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You mean the (MTA)?

MTA doesn't post fare evasion statistics on the site with the other ridership stats. So I'm just curious as to how one can discern that's one of the main reasons the Bx15 service has become abysmal as of late. Furthermore, I agree with the OP, in that combining the 15 with the 55 wasn't the smartest move (especially in the sense of having every LTD go to 12/125).

 

I'm seeing an increase in farebeating only on runs where people have waited a long time and the buses aren't that crowded.

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Okay how do you go about calculating farebeating stats and proving they correlate to its decline? I disagree with that notion, when I've seen 30+ minute waits at the northern terminal and there's no one regulating/stopping 3-5 buses from leaving at the same time.

Ever since the new setup,In fordam Plaza,there were countless times there are no buses for half hour.Then 2 buses come afterwards.There should be a dispatcher there or revert !!!

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Okay how do you go about calculating farebeating stats and proving they correlate to its decline? I disagree with that notion, when I've seen 30+ minute waits at the northern terminal and there's no one regulating/stopping 3-5 buses from leaving at the same time.

True MTA doesn't post these stays bit they have given general reports as have the NYPD. When I lived in the Bronx I saw farebeaters on that line daily. Even now years later I see it on 125th as well where all the local buses are prime target for farebeaters, and the Artics are their first choice. Especially a D60. As I have worked with the MTA in many different areas I have surveyed quite a few buses for work and leisure.

 

I counted 139 people enter 1 RTS through the rear door from Ulmer Park Depot all the way to New Lots one day. That's one trip...... Some drivers don't record farebeaters into the firebox while others do..... There's no way to get accurate numbers in so many different routes daily. There are millions of free rides each week.

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True MTA doesn't post these stays bit they have given general reports as have the NYPD. When I lived in the Bronx I saw farebeaters on that line daily. Even now years later I see it on 125th as well where all the local buses are prime target for farebeaters, and the Artics are their first choice. Especially a D60. As I have worked with the MTA in many different areas I have surveyed quite a few buses for work and leisure.

I counted 139 people enter 1 RTS through the rear door from Ulmer Park Depot all the way to New Lots one day. That's one trip...... Some drivers don't record farebeaters into the firebox while others do..... There's no way to get accurate numbers in so many different routes daily. There are millions of free rides each week.

I mean last I heard NYPD was reluctant to cough up the stats on the subway end, so I imagine they'd be even harder to come by on bus routes that don't have dedicated fare checkers. I avoid the 125 end at all cost because its slow and the m60 is better. I agree with you in that I see farebeaters on 3 Av daily and that drivers could only be expected to count the ones that come in the front... but that's kinda my point. It'd be hard to say for sure if farebeating was making a route worse... in the case of the Bx15, I'm still inclined to believe it occurs more after long waits and that it actually serves to decrease dwell times at stops. I'm not on the team of SBS every route but I fail to see why the Bx15 hasn't been looked at considering neither it nor the Bx55 were never an adequate replacements to the 3av El.

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I mean last I heard NYPD was reluctant to cough up the stats on the subway end, so I imagine they'd be even harder to come by on bus routes that don't have dedicated fare checkers. I avoid the 125 end at all cost because its slow and the m60 is better. I agree with you in that I see farebeaters on 3 Av daily and that drivers could only be expected to count the ones that come in the front... but that's kinda my point. It'd be hard to say for sure if farebeating was making a route worse... in the case of the Bx15, I'm still inclined to believe it occurs more after long waits and that it actually serves to decrease dwell times at stops. I'm not on the team of SBS every route but I fail to see why the Bx15 hasn't been looked at considering neither it nor the Bx55 were never an adequate replacements to the 3av El.

I don't disagree, because reliability is the #1 reason for decline in 90% of these cases. I'm just simply adding in that there are millions of undocumented passengers, and the Bx15 is in the top 20 for most free rides. While the number of farebeaters is decreasing on SBS routes, it is rising in other areas on the nearby local runs. MTA does actually keep internal numbers that they don't really make public but I have the 2016 numbers for a few lines. I still argue that thse numbers are likely higher, as I'm sure MTA mostly bases these numbers off eagle team encounters.

 

Route. Non Paying Passengers pre-sbs. Non Paying Passengers post SBS

 

Bx41 19.4% 5.1%

Bx12 13% 2.6%

M34 7.6% 3.2%

B44 7.3% 3.6%

M15 6.4%. 3.3%

 

I'm not quite sure exactly what method they used to come up with these numbers or the time period between evaluation.

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I don't disagree, because reliability is the #1 reason for decline in 90% of these cases. I'm just simply adding in that there are millions of undocumented passengers, and the Bx15 is in the top 20 for most free rides. While the number of farebeaters is decreasing on SBS routes, it is rising in other areas on the nearby local runs. MTA does actually keep internal numbers that they don't really make public but I have the 2016 numbers for a few lines. I still argue that thse numbers are likely higher, as I'm sure MTA mostly bases these numbers off eagle team encounters.

 

Route. Non Paying Passengers pre-sbs. Non Paying Passengers post SBS

 

Bx41 19.4% 5.1%

Bx12 13% 2.6%

M34 7.6% 3.2%

B44 7.3% 3.6%

M15 6.4%. 3.3%

 

I'm not quite sure exactly what method they used to come up with these numbers or the time period between evaluation.

If those numbers are true then the Bx12 hasn't gained riders at all. It's just that more of them have been paying then before. 

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MTA doesn't post fare evasion statistics on the site with the other ridership stats. So I'm just curious as to how one can discern that's one of the main reasons the Bx15 service has become abysmal as of late. Furthermore, I agree with the OP, in that combining the 15 with the 55 wasn't the smartest move (especially in the sense of having every LTD go to 12/125).

I'm seeing an increase in farebeating only on runs where people have waited a long time and the buses aren't that crowded.

Heh... Please... All you have to do is ride some of these buses and see for yourself. I've only used a handful of Bronx local buses but the farebeating witnessed was rampant. The Bx9, Bx15, Bx41SBS and Bx6 are lines I've used that clearly have farebeating problems. The Bx6 gets tons of people entering through the front and either walking right past the farebox or entering through the back. On occasion someone may drop a few coins in if that. The Bx41SBS... They Eagle team must've done raids because I noticed the last time I used it, everyone made a concerted effort to get their ticket. lol The Bx6, Bx41SBS and Bx15 all run through the South Bronx, which seems to be an area where there is high farebeating from what I've seen. I also think that it's absurd to insinuate that because a bus is late that you should just walk through the back door. These people want any excuse not to pay, but I see all of them have fancy sneakers on and expensive cell phones.
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Okay, not trying to defend or make excuses for farebeaters here, but you think the reason some do it is because they don't wanna wait in line to dip their metrocard? On many high traffic routes, it can take up to 5 minutes for the boarding process because you have people who take their time getting their metrocard, wheelchair passengers (sometimes more than one), people with questions, etc.

 

It seems to me like they dodge the fare as a faster way of getting on the bus but I could be wrong.

 

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Okay, not trying to defend or make excuses for farebeaters here, but you think the reason some do it is because they don't wanna wait in line to dip their metrocard? On many high traffic routes, it can take up to 5 minutes for the boarding process because you have people who take their time getting their metrocard, wheelchair passengers (sometimes more than one), people with questions, etc.

 

It seems to me like they dodge the fare as a faster way of getting on the bus but I could be wrong.

 

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Actually I think some purposely look for crowded buses so that they can use that as a convenient excuse, especially on lines like the Bx6.  I usually just walk to and from the BxM4 when I do use it, but on occasion I'll take it if it's really hot out. I remember once that was the case. I boarded through the front and dipped anyway.  Driver told me I could go through the back and I did.  What I have witnessed on several Bronx lines is people waiting by the back door before the bus even pulls in, basically surveying to see if they can sneak in and not be detected.  If the bus is crowded enough, a driver won't bother in the interest of keeping things moving along, and some of these guys bank on it. When the bus isn't crowded, they have no choice but to enter through the front, and they're at the mercy of the driver as to whether or not he wants to let him board.  The Bx6 and lines like the Bx15, you'll hear the F6 button pressed CONSTANTLY.  Mind you I'm only on the bus for maybe 5 or 10 minutes tops, and this is what goes on for the few stops that I'm on it, say from the Grand Concourse area over to 3rd and 163rd, which is not that many stops.  In contrast, the local buses that run through my area appear to have very low instances of farebeating, and I have seen teens kicked off of the Bx10 when they don't have the fare (on weekends).  It's mind boggling to me how you can expect to get free rides on weekends to hang out with friends or do other activities that have nothing to do with school. Most of the people fare beating are either teens or young men.  

 

I have a problem with it because I don't think it stops.  You have teens that become entitled, and when they become grown up, they continue to do it because why not? I haven't been paying all this time, so why should I now?

 

The Bx15 is a combination of farebeating and M60 usage along 125th.  Some likely are even walking if they can because the traffic can be pretty bad at times.  

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Okay, not trying to defend or make excuses for farebeaters here, but you think the reason some do it is because they don't wanna wait in line to dip their metrocard? On many high traffic routes, it can take up to 5 minutes for the boarding process because you have people who take their time getting their metrocard, wheelchair passengers (sometimes more than one), people with questions, etc.

It seems to me like they dodge the fare as a faster way of getting on the bus but I could be wrong.

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From my angle I can actually agree with you on this point and disagree with VG8. I know for a fact from a servey I conducted that many people who actually do have the fare on the Metrocard board the back door because they are pissed of that they had to wait for 10-30 minutes and now just want a seat and don't really care about anything else at that point. I have done it myself..... I have seen MTA employees late to work and say they don't have time for this operator to say he has no more room on the bus and enter the back door with me..... Clearly neither of us are farebeaters.

 

One night me and a Bus Operater who I just met as we were at the bus stop watched 4 B6 buses pass us Next Bus Please because of an earlier incident.... When the next bus pulled up it stopped at the corner to let ppl off and said Next Bus Please as well, we and I looked at each other and without words bothers to the back door of this RTS as we were both already late at this point..... He didn't show his pass, and I didn't dip mine.... 7 other people followed us.... We were all unrecorded passengers.....

 

Some people get fed up with the wait and at that point MTA never knew any of us were on the bus....... That's why for decades and the last 9 years that I have been a staff member here at NYCTF that the stat numbers are NOT accurate..... More people ride the bus and subways than MTA actually knows....

 

For 9 years straight now I will continue that the B46 is the heaviest used line in the western hemisphere period.... I don't give a damn what the stats say. I live in NYC and transverse these buses and subways everyday of my life while other MTA Brass take car service or only take the subway or bus for a photo op...

 

Funny B46 was always number one for almost 10 years straight until the Bx12 SBS was created.... Now the B46 is number 3???? Ok....

 

If you include all the numbers of unrecorded passengers the B46 is number one and I think if someone did a bit of research they would see I been right since 9 years ago. Another point is that the Bx12 local has skyrocketed with farebeaters but the MTA wouldn't know that case they don't ride that bus..... And all of the eagle team is on the SBS.... With SBS MTA just moves the farebeaters from one limited line to the next local line....

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From my angle I can actually agree with you on this point and disagree with VG8. I know for a fact from a servey I conducted that many people who actually do have the fare on the Metrocard board the back door because they are pissed of that they had to wait for 10-30 minutes and now just want a seat and don't really care about anything else at that point. I have done it myself..... I have seen MTA employees late to work and say they don't have time for this operator to say he has no more room on the bus and enter the back door with me..... Clearly neither of us are farebeaters.

 

One night me and a Bus Operater who I just met as we were at the bus stop watched 4 B6 buses pass us Next Bus Please because of an earlier incident.... When the next bus pulled up it stopped at the corner to let ppl off and said Next Bus Please as well, we and I looked at each other and without words bothers to the back door of this RTS as we were both already late at this point..... He didn't show his pass, and I didn't dip mine.... 7 other people followed us.... We were all unrecorded passengers.....

 

Some people get fed up with the wait and at that point MTA never knew any of us were on the bus....... That's why for decades and the last 9 years that I have been a staff member here at NYCTF that the stat numbers are NOT accurate..... More people ride the bus and subways than MTA actually knows....

 

For 9 years straight now I will continue that the B46 is the heaviest used line in the western hemisphere period.... I don't give a damn what the stats say. I live in NYC and transverse these buses and subways everyday of my life while other MTA Brass take car service or only take the subway or bus for a photo op...

 

Funny B46 was always number one for almost 10 years straight until the Bx12 SBS was created.... Now the B46 is number 3???? Ok....

The people you describe do exist.  However, how do you explain people not getting tickets on SBS lines?  There are people that also do have the fare, but will board without paying not because they're necessarily fed up but because they don't want to pay.  At the end of the day all of these people we described add to the idea that ridership is lower than what it is.  Mind you I've traveled extensively outside of the US using other bus systems and have seen the same shenanigans.  In some places you have to stamp a ticket. People will hold their ticket and see if they can get a free ride or stamp it at the last minute when they see an inspector coming, and if they can't reach a machine to stamp the ticket in time, well they'll use the excuse that they forgot to stamp it or were going to stamp it. lol There are also people with passes that think hey I've a pass, I don't need to both dipping it.  

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I can adjust to what ENY was saying. During my family reunion visit last summer (8/27/16), I took the Bx15 from 138th St & Willis Ave, and never seen a bus this crowded for a 11ish in the morning. Come to 3rd Ave & 149th St, I've seen 16 people get on thru the back of the bus. This is worst than comparing it to SEPTA's route 52 bus at 52nd & Market in Philly where that many get in the back door of a 40 ft NF bus. In Philly, when it comes to certain major transfer points, most drivers will see that there are many people are waiting in a less crowded bus. To avoid fare evaders, drivers tell back door exiting passengers to use the front door so that he or she will not open the back door.

 

In NYC, three door articulated buses should only be used for SBS routes, not local routes which fare evaders can use both the middle & rear doors for entry. They should've ordered two door artics for local buses, but when the D60s are gone, there will only be buses with 3-doors on it.

 

VG8, you must be talking about them Light rails whereas they use that method. In Baltimore, you must purchase a ticket to get on, because at any given time, inspectors, who dress like you and me, can board and ask you for a ticket, if you don't have one, it's $100 and you're getting off at the wrong stop, no questions asked, no answers given, and lame excuses are not tolerated.

 

 

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Those routes were looked at but they decided the Bx41 would be a better candidate. Not sure why they couldn't do both though.

 

I am aware of that, I'm just curious as to why they completely dropped the Bx15/55 from the table post SBS41. IMO, If they were going to drop the concept of SBS on 3 av, the 15 could have had LTD service in addition to leaving the 55 alone. Apart from them purposefully cutting the service back over the years, the Bx55 being the sole LTD only Bronx route was a solid and efficient service from a rider standpoint. The Bx15 is in the same boat as the Bx1 in that it's too long for all the LTD runs to be running the whole thing and expecting it to still be reliable. For starters I think some of the LTD runs to go back out of KB (they really shafted the OPs that worked the 55 by giving them all local runs) and end at the HUB.

 

Heh... Please... All you have to do is ride some of these buses and see for yourself. I've only used a handful of Bronx local buses but the farebeating witnessed was rampant. The Bx9, Bx15, Bx41SBS and Bx6 are lines I've used that clearly have farebeating problems. The Bx6 gets tons of people entering through the front and either walking right past the farebox or entering through the back. On occasion someone may drop a few coins in if that. The Bx41SBS... They Eagle team must've done raids because I noticed the last time I used it, everyone made a concerted effort to get their ticket. lol The Bx6, Bx41SBS and Bx15 all run through the South Bronx, which seems to be an area where there is high farebeating from what I've seen. I also think that it's absurd to insinuate that because a bus is late that you should just walk through the back door. These people want any excuse not to pay, but I see all of them have fancy sneakers on and expensive cell phones.

 

You couldn't have possibly thought it was a good idea to post in this thread telling me to get out and ride Bronx bus routes, especially not after I had to gather you over your incomplete knowledge on the Bx6/Bx19 a few weeks ago in the SBS thread. You definitely can't tell me anything I don't already know about the "pack animal" (it travels in a minimum group of 2-3 at all times) Bx9 because it's one of my home routes. You can't prove that farebeating significantly correlates to a decline in service in the case of the Bx15 when first and foremost it's completely unreliable in terms of maintaining its headways. I've had an ETA 12-15 minute commute from Fordham to Tremont take 45 minutes messing with that 15. Almost contemplated taking the Harlem Line 2 stops on several occasions but I'm frugal and like getting my money's worth out of my unlimited. As far as it being an absurd concept, I'm of the belief that if there's a 30 minute wait for a run and its scheduled to be far more frequent than that (something common on the 15), everyone should be getting on for free because sitting at each stop will only serve to delay that run further. Yes it skews ridership stats but that's not the main point of operating a public transportation system. If you want to start making comparisons to other systems, MBTA used to do that and refund passengers that did pay. Lastly, if you want to make biased sociological assumptions about populations based on appearances and correlate them to transportation, you're free to do that. Just in stay in your lane and don't quote me with the illogical mess...

 

 

From my angle I can actually agree with you on this point and disagree with VG8. I know for a fact from a servey I conducted that many people who actually do have the fare on the Metrocard board the back door because they are pissed of that they had to wait for 10-30 minutes and now just want a seat and don't really care about anything else at that point. I have done it myself..... I have seen MTA employees late to work and say they don't have time for this operator to say he has no more room on the bus and enter the back door with me..... Clearly neither of us are farebeaters.

 

If you include all the numbers of unrecorded passengers the B46 is number one and I think if someone did a bit of research they would see I been right since 9 years ago. Another point is that the Bx12 local has skyrocketed with farebeaters but the MTA wouldn't know that case they don't ride that bus..... And all of the eagle team is on the SBS.... With SBS MTA just moves the farebeaters from one limited line to the next local line....

 

I wasn't aware there was a survey but that was my exact thought process and in locations with dispatchers, I've seen them okay this as well. Some B/os will give up on telling people to move back (especially on low floor buses) and just start leaving people at stops. Happened to me on the SBS 12 last week, Op decided to skip the SBS stop and drop off at the local stop because the bus was "packed" ignoring the fact that we'd been waiting for an SBS for 15 mins.  The operators are far more lenient on the local 12 runs and I want to assume it's partially because they don't want to see disadvantaged populations being hit over the head with a fine because they were 5 cents short.

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You couldn't have possibly thought it was a good idea to post in this thread telling me to get out and ride Bronx bus routes, especially not after I had to gather you over your incomplete knowledge on the Bx6/Bx19 a few weeks ago in the SBS thread. You definitely can't tell me anything I don't already know about the "pack animal" (it travels in a minimum group of 2-3 at all times) Bx9 because it's one of my home routes. You can't prove that farebeating significantly correlates to a decline in service in the case of the Bx15 when first and foremost it's completely unreliable in terms of maintaining its headways. I've had an ETA 12-15 minute commute from Fordham to Tremont take 45 minutes messing with that 15. Almost contemplated taking the Harlem Line 2 stops on several occasions but I'm frugal and like getting my money's worth out of my unlimited. As far as it being an absurd concept, I'm of the belief that if there's a 30 minute wait for a run and its scheduled to be far more frequent than that (something common on the 15), everyone should be getting on for free because sitting at each stop will only serve to delay that run further. Yes it skews ridership stats but that's not the main point of operating a public transportation system. If you want to start making comparisons to other systems, MBTA used to do that and refund passengers that did pay. Lastly, if you want to make biased sociological assumptions about populations based on appearances and correlate them to transportation, you're free to do that. Just in stay in your lane and don't quote me with the illogical mess...

You asked a question and I answered it. That's all I can say about it.  I mean really, it's not that complicated and something that you should know given your proclaimed expertise on Bronx local buses.  I don't ride the Bronx local buses regularly, but I've been riding buses long enough to put two and two together just from the times that I've been on them. Additionally, you can't disprove that farebeating correlates to a decline in service now can you? If the (MTA) doesn't have the full stats in terms of true ridership, even with the bunching, you can't say for certain that they're providing the bus service based on true ridership.

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You asked a question and I answered it. That's all I can say about it.  I mean really, it's not that complicated and something that you should know given your proclaimed expertise on Bronx local buses.  I don't ride the Bronx local buses regularly, but I've been riding buses long enough to put two and two together just from the times that I've been on them. Additionally, you can't disprove that farebeating correlates to a decline in service now can you? If the (MTA) doesn't have the full stats in terms of true ridership, even with the bunching, you can't say for certain that they're providing the bus service based on true ridership.

 

This is simple, I didn't specifically direct my initial question towards you because I wasn't seeking your answer (you don't work for the MTA to have access to those stats like ENY does).  I'm a bit rusty but I should still be able to use statistical reasoning appropriately here (someone can correct me if I'm off though)...

 

I said "significantly correlate" as in prove that farebeating is having a larger negative effect on Bx15 service than other factors such as (ex. reliability, # of vehicles, headways, breakdowns etc). Without stats, I'd be operating off of observations making my H0 (null hypothesis) that farebeating doesn't significantly correlate to a decline in Bx15 service as opposed to other factors (it actually helps the Bx15). The assumed H1 would be that farebeating does significantly correlate to a decline in service (hindering service). You could make the argument that if they're are at the front arguing with operators it would increase dwell time but we've already deduced most are coming in the back/operators let them in the front without paying. ENY stated that a survey was conducted and concluded that passenger rationale for farebeating was more closely linked to reliability issues. Reliability of a service will generally correlate customer satisfaction with a service. Farebeating in theory would generally decrease Bx15 dwell times, and improve its reliability. All of that is in line with H0 and negates H1. So yeah you can more or less prove that even if farebeating is a factor it's not as relevant as other factors.

 

For the record, an example of farebeating hindering a service would be the SBS routes because if the checkers get on the bus and catch people who haven't paid (as opposed to checking only those getting off once they disembark), the dwell time skyrockets and mars reliability. 

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This is simple, I didn't specifically direct my initial question towards you because I wasn't seeking your answer (you don't work for the MTA to have access to those stats like ENY does).  I'm a bit rusty but I should still be able to use statistical reasoning appropriately here (someone can correct me if I'm off though)...

 

I said "significantly correlate" as in prove that farebeating is having a larger negative effect on Bx15 service than other factors such as (ex. reliability, # of vehicles, headways, breakdowns etc). Without stats, I'd be operating off of observations making my H0 (null hypothesis) that farebeating doesn't significantly correlate to a decline in Bx15 service as opposed to other factors (it actually helps the Bx15). The assumed H1 would be that farebeating does significantly correlate to a decline in service (hindering service). You could make the argument that if they're are at the front arguing with operators it would increase dwell time but we've already deduced most are coming in the back/operators let them in the front without paying. ENY stated that a survey was conducted and concluded that passenger rationale for farebeating was more closely linked to reliability issues. Reliability of a service will generally correlate customer satisfaction with a service. Farebeating in theory would generally decrease Bx15 dwell times, and improve its reliability. All of that is in line with H0 and negates H1. So yeah you can more or less prove that even if farebeating is a factor it's not as relevant as other factors.

Your initial question didn't appear to be directed to anyone quite frankly, so I'll excuse myself from addressing you going forward, because quite frankly you have a chip on your shoulder and I'm sick of dealing with it. I'll let you be the expert on the Bronx local buses.  I could care less either way.

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