B35 via Church Posted October 30, 2017 Share #76 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: I guess what I'm trying to say is that this really has nothing to do with the neutering of masculinity. This is just busybodies being busybodies. Whether it's the busybodies at the PTA or church or the community board or looking out the window wonder in what the neighborhood kids are doing outside, males and females who are these busybody types have been stirring up this kind of nonsense since time immemorial. It's just that now with the Internet and the death of local news, anybody can start a change.org petition and call the local news affiliate starving for a story, which is probably what happened here. Right.... and busybodies being busybodies led up to the bevy of emasculated males we have out here..... I guess what I'm trying to say is, you don't give people an inch to have them take a mile.... The point you're making at the end there is leading to my ultimate point... We're bored, let's throw shit on a wall, hope that it sticks, and if it's doesn't, we will, as women, try our damnedest to make it stick.... Pile onto this, other issues that largely benefit women, and a snowball effect commences... The whole is always greater than the sum of it's parts.... Open strollers by itself won't neuter masculinity.... What (or should I say, How) do you think the outcome will be from, for example, the women that signed this petition, if the the MTA were to reject this open strollers bit wholesale? Edited October 30, 2017 by B35 via Church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #77 Posted October 30, 2017 3 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: I guess what I'm trying to say is that this really has nothing to do with the neutering of masculinity. This is just busybodies being busybodies. Whether it's the busybodies at the PTA or church or the community board or looking out the window wonderin what the neighborhood kids are doing outside, males and females who are these busybody types have been stirring up this kind of nonsense since time immemorial. It's just that now with the Internet and the death of local news, anybody can start a change.org petition and call the local news affiliate starving for a story, which is probably what happened here. Exactly. It really takes a certain type of insecure to see a stroller as a challenge to ones masculinity. In regards to other the above post, I also don't see how women's convenience/rights threaten men. This world isn't a zero sum game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 30, 2017 Share #78 Posted October 30, 2017 46 minutes ago, RR503 said: Exactly. It really takes a certain type of insecure to see a stroller as a challenge to ones masculinity.... Yeah.... except that isn't remotely the message I'm conveying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #79 Posted October 30, 2017 7 hours ago, B35 via Church said: ...and I'm disgusted by how masculinity is slowly being neutered in this country.... 7 hours ago, B35 via Church said: As far as feminist women, they will latch onto anything that can & will benefit women.... In laymens, they'll make it an issue.... That's where I'm coming from with this... I'm not implicating that women that are advocates of this issue are feminist... With that said, feminism is most certainly not limited to upper middle class white women in-particular & I don't know where you're getting that from at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #80 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, B35 via Church said: Right.... and busybodies being busybodies led up to the bevy of emasculated males we have out here..... I guess what I'm trying to say is, you don't give people an inch to have them take a mile.... The point you're making at the end there is leading to my ultimate point... We're bored, let's throw shit on a wall, hope that it sticks, and if it's doesn't, we will, as women, try our damnedest to make it stick.... Pile onto this, other issues that largely benefit women, and a snowball effect commences... The whole is always greater than the sum of it's parts.... Open strollers by itself won't neuter masculinity.... What (or should I say, How) do you think the outcome will be from, for example, the women that signed this petition, if the the MTA were to reject this open strollers bit wholesale? (Idk why this posted in 2 parts) Edited October 30, 2017 by RR503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 30, 2017 Share #81 Posted October 30, 2017 35 minutes ago, RR503 said: (Idk why this posted in 2 parts) My stated disgust of masculinity being neutered, was a direct quip specifically tailored to that remark about your female friend being disgusted by the way people here were speaking here of women..... That was, in no way, shape or form conveying that an open stroller on a bus is a threat to masculinity.... Never mind that I stated verbatim in that last quote "Open strollers by itself won't neuter masculinity".... Come on with this.... You're conflating 2 separate things (the reply I made to you regarding what your female friend said & the 2 replies I made to BobPanda) & are coming to an erroneous conclusion.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted October 30, 2017 Share #82 Posted October 30, 2017 Open strollers on Buses. B35, VG8, and the like have already expressed their feelings and I as a bus driver share that (although I work on the oppo side of the Hudson). Trainmaster hit it right on the head too. SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY. God forbid that op has to slam brakes and that stroller is not secured (what I mean is strapped down like we do the wheelchairs, but that's just not gonna happen). Another Armchair Quarterback with a misguided dream of contributing to society. To quote my Drill Sergeant from Basic Training: "Not only no, but hell no" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #83 Posted October 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, 46Dover said: Open strollers on Buses. B35, VG8, and the like have already expressed their feelings and I as a bus driver share that (although I work on the oppo side of the Hudson). Trainmaster hit it right on the head too. SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY. God forbid that op has to slam brakes and that stroller is not secured (what I mean is strapped down like we do the wheelchairs, but that's just not gonna happen). Another Armchair Quarterback with a misguided dream of contributing to society. To quote my Drill Sergeant from Basic Training: "Not only no, but hell no" And when that stroller goes flying, the first one that they're going to blame is you of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #84 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, 46Dover said: Open strollers on Buses. B35, VG8, and the like have already expressed their feelings and I as a bus driver share that (although I work on the oppo side of the Hudson). Trainmaster hit it right on the head too. SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY. God forbid that op has to slam brakes and that stroller is not secured (what I mean is strapped down like we do the wheelchairs, but that's just not gonna happen). Another Armchair Quarterback with a misguided dream of contributing to society. To quote my Drill Sergeant from Basic Training: "Not only no, but hell no" 3 That goes back to the question I asked last night? What's the rules around women with babies? Is there a policy for priority seating? Objectively I understand the safety issues with blocking the aisles evacuation people having to get off, tripping. etc.. But to your point with braking. What's safer a child in a stroller with a hard break or in arms standing? There is a chance for tripping and pileup I considered that possibility just asking it's not a federal regulation because other cities allow (Open Strollers) in some form or fashion with same bus stocks CTA and LAMTA come to mind. I get the possible lawsuits and so forth. Is the MTA's policy similar to that of pregnant women and the elderly? Just running the competitive analysis here. Edited October 30, 2017 by RailRunRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #85 Posted October 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: That goes back to the question I asked last night? What's the rules around women with babies? Is there a policy for priority seating? Objectively I understand the safety issues with blocking the aisles evacuation people having to get off, tripping. etc.. But to your point with braking. What's safer a child in a stroller with a hard break or in arms standing? There is a chance for tripping and pileup I considered that possibility just asking it's not a federal regulation because other cities allow (Open Strollers) in some form or fashion with same bus stocks CTA and LAMTA come to mind. I get the possible lawsuits and so forth. Is the MTA's policy similar to that of pregnant women and the elderly? Just running the competitive analysis here. The 's "courtesy" policy is to give up seats in the front area for elderly. They used to be marked too, but I don't think they mark them now (I could be wrong). In any event, it's basically not a rule but a question of courtesy to give up your seat for the elderly. For pregnant women, there is no rule. If a lady gets on and someone feels like giving up their seat, great, but there's no policy that says that they have to be given a seat. Hell most of the people sitting tend to be elderly anyway while the young folks like myself usually stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #86 Posted October 30, 2017 36 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: The 's "courtesy" policy is to give up seats in the front area for elderly. They used to be marked too, but I don't think they mark them now (I could be wrong). In any event, it's basically not a rule but a question of courtesy to give up your seat for the elderly. For pregnant women, there is no rule. If a lady gets on and someone feels like giving up their seat, great, but there's no policy that says that they have to be given a seat. Hell most of the people sitting tend to be elderly anyway while the young folks like myself usually stand. Do you think that's part of the complaints? I know in other Cities for pregnant women if requested you're expected to yield to the request. Could something like that be a middle ground? Folded strollers but yielding to the Elderly, expecting mothers and mother with kids under 9 months to a year? At the front of the bus? I have to take a look at the seating arrangements on the bus models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #87 Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, RailRunRob said: Do you think that's part of the complaints? I know in other Cities for pregnant women if requested you're expected to yield to the request. Could something like that be a middle ground? Folded strollers but yielding to the Elderly, expecting mothers and mother with kids under 9 months to a year? At the front of the bus? I have to take a look at the seating arrangements on the bus models. I don't know because as I said, most of the people sitting on the buses I take tend to be older to elderly, so asking someone who who is elderly or disabled to stand... I never sit down on the local buses, so I don't have any seat to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #88 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: I don't know because as I said, most of the people sitting on the buses I take tend to be older to elderly, so asking someone who who is elderly or disabled to stand... I never sit down on the local buses, so I don't have any seat to give up. The disabled would take top priority followed by the elderly, Pregnant women and mothers with young children then general ridership. If there are 7-8 seats on a bus designated for these groups that might be a middle ground. 7 of 10 times it might solve the issue. Minus peak ridership times....Of course, if there are 8 elderly folks on the bus already they wouldn't be asked to move. Same with Several wheelchairs. That's where the courtesy policy comes in for mothers. Edited October 30, 2017 by RailRunRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #89 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: The disabled would take top priority followed by the elderly, Pregnant women and mothers with young children then general ridership. If there are 7-8 seats on a bus designated for these groups that might be a middle ground. 7 of 10 times it might solve the issue. Of course, if there are 8 elderly folks on the bus already they wouldn't be asked to move. Same with Several wheelchairs. That's where the courtesy policy comes in for mothers. But that's the main issue. Most of the bus ridership these days for local buses consist of disabled and the elderly, and they usually sit up front. I tend to see more younger folks on the SBS lines where I don't think giving up a seat for a mother with a baby is a big deal, but the stroller would be, as most of them are quite crowded. The aisles are narrow too. Edited October 30, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #90 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: But that's the main issue. Most of the bus ridership these days for local buses are disabled and elderly and they usually sit up front. I tend to see more younger folks on the SBS lines where I don't think giving up a seat for a mother with a baby is a big deal, but the stroller would be, as most of them are quite crowded. The aisles are narrow too. A big part of that could be POV as well. No question on routes like the BX10 and Bx20 and the Co-OpCity routes they run through an area with large elderly communities. But at 5 -6 buses an hour with a route time of 60-70 minutes that space isn't always going to be occupied so many variables. Out of all the routes in my area, the B45 would be closet to what you're describing but it parallels the Eastern Parkway Line so yeah that make's sense. But then you have the B48,67 and 69 not so much. That issue would vary from route to route and area to area..There flip up seats why couldn't you just slide the stroller under the seats? Providing it's medium to a smaller stroller? Some of these newer buses have doorways approaching the 47" mark correct? RTS buses defiantly had to be a challenge for navigation. Edited October 30, 2017 by RailRunRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #91 Posted October 30, 2017 1 minute ago, RailRunRob said: A big part of that could be POV as well. No question on routes like the BX10 and Bx20 and the Co-OpCity routes they run through an area with large elderly communities. But at 5 -6 buses an hour with a route time of 60-70 minutes that space isn't always going to be occupied so many variables. Out of all the routes in my area, the B45 would be closet to what you're describing but it parallels the Eastern Parkway Line so yeah that make's sense. But then you have the B48,67 and 69 not so much. That issue would vary from route to route and area to area..There flip up seats why couldn't you just slide the stroller under the seats? Providing it's medium to a smaller stroller? Some of these newer buses have doorways approaching the 47" mark correct? RTS buses were defiantly had to be a challenge for navigation. Slip them under the seats? lol Please. Those women want their strollers open often times so that they can keep the kid in the stroller. They don't want to do all of that, and there's the problem. Laziness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted October 30, 2017 Share #92 Posted October 30, 2017 I'd almost feel insulted if they wanted to try that on an MCI as VG8 had witnessed. You'd laugh/sneer, but like the earlier point made "give an inch-they take a mile", there's just no telling anymore. Homo Sapiens are capable of anything 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted October 30, 2017 Share #93 Posted October 30, 2017 36 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: The disabled would take top priority followed by the elderly, Pregnant women and mothers with young children then general ridership. If there are 7-8 seats on a bus designated for these groups that might be a middle ground. 7 of 10 times it might solve the issue. Minus peak ridership times....Of course, if there are 8 elderly folks on the bus already they wouldn't be asked to move. Same with Several wheelchairs. That's where the courtesy policy comes in for mothers. I dread the day a 9 month pregnant woman gets on my bus and her water broke. That would be the absolute worst case scenario ever for me... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #94 Posted October 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: Slip them under the seats? lol Please. Those women want their strollers open often times so that they can keep the kid in the stroller. They don't want to do all of that, and there's the problem. Laziness... That's not an option. At the end of the day if you're the MTA you at least want to reach out and try your best to accommodate within your power. After seeing the comments on that petition if you're a mother and you have a young child you should at least get priority for a seat if available. Fold the stroller get on request the seat and enjoy the ride. From what you're saying even the elderly don't have priority and if your wheelchair didn't required the seats to be flipped up they wouldn't either or at least get people to move. Something maybe to look at it. Look if the MTA is willing to try to reach out what can you do. They can't say no one tried at that point it's more of an inconvenience for the general ridership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #95 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 46Dover said: I dread the day a 9 month pregnant woman gets on my bus and her water broke. That would be the absolute worst case scenario ever for me... I hope there's training for that. Not impossible odds. Edited October 30, 2017 by RailRunRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted October 30, 2017 Share #96 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: I hope there's training for that. There not impossible odds. Not even (except call 911)/Don't remind me.... Edited October 30, 2017 by 46Dover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #97 Posted October 30, 2017 Let me throw this in the conversation. I don't pretend to know the correct answer but is there any transport provider who doesn't design for maximum seating capacity? I thought that was the holy grail for airlines, rail, and bus manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #98 Posted October 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said: Let me throw this in the conversation. I don't pretend to know the correct answer but is there any transport provider who doesn't design for maximum seating capacity? I thought that was the holy grail for airlines, rail, and bus manufacturers. I was looking at some Interiors as I was making my last comments. This isn't my field per say but I'd think for these new generations of buses the base configurations are designed with maximization in mind. And you work your way up from there Suburban configurations, Airports shuttles. The MTA's designs If you really look at them are anchored around versatility, more standing room, (Door to Door) Disability standards, Strollers could fit into that as well. Maximum seating capacity would be 4 seats per row at least door to door. To the MTA's 3 per row on standard buses. I see even the new MCI D45's have more room for Wheelchairs etc. For rail, it really would be based on the parameters of the agency or the system you're building for there needs and guidelines (From my experience doing CAD for Kawasaki) Id take it buses are the same. But I wonder how many options are available for configuration on say a Nova LFA.. good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted October 30, 2017 Share #99 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) The MCI D45 I was referencing I'm sure most of you already saw this. (Shrugs) Design Heavy. Edited October 30, 2017 by RailRunRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted October 30, 2017 Share #100 Posted October 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said: Let me throw this in the conversation. I don't pretend to know the correct answer but is there any transport provider who doesn't design for maximum seating capacity? I thought that was the holy grail for airlines, rail, and bus manufacturers. I’d say design for maximum given market . The LIRR will never order M series cars with R160 bench seating because they will never carry enough passengers to warrant it, and the service they’re providing. Same applies to airlines. Ryanair will pack 737-800s with 189 seats, but Emirates would never think of putting 440 seats on a 77W, given the long-haul market those planes serve. In the case of buses, well, depends on what your route is. High density, high frequency, still crowded, cull seats. Otherwise, keep. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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