Commuter Rail Flat Fare Proposal

[Mtatransit]

While this is far fetched. This proposal was introduced as an alternative to the other fare increase proposals.

 

Alternate Flat Fare Proposal:

Maintain current fare zone structure, or condense zone structure to two zones (a New York City Zone excluding the Far Rockaway Station, and a Suburban Zone comprising only Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Dutchess and Putnam Counties and the Far Rockaway Station) and three fares (travel within the City Zone, travel between the Suburban Zone and the City Zone, and travel within the Suburban Zone only), with no peak or off-peak travel price differential and no monthly discounts. For Metro-North, this proposal will not apply to the West of Hudson fare and zone structure. Under this proposal, other discounted fares will be maintained, and 10-trip tickets may be eliminated.

Under this proposal, LIRR ticket prices would be up to the following amounts:

One-way ticket prices would be up to: $8.25 within the City Zone; $14.50 for Suburban-City travel; and $7.25 within the Suburban Zone.

Monthly ticket prices would be up to: $182.00 within the City Zone; $318.00 for Suburban-City travel; and $192.50 within the Suburban Zone.

Weekly ticket prices would be up to: $58.25 within the City Zone; $101.75 for Suburban-City travel; and $59.75 within the Suburban Zone.

 

Under this proposal, Metro-North ticket prices would be up to the following amounts:

One-way ticket prices would be up to: $12.00 within the City Zone; $14.75 for Suburban-City travel; and $8.00 within the Suburban Zone.

Monthly ticket prices would be up to: $262.00 within the City Zone; $329.00 for Suburban-City travel; and $175.00 within the Suburban Zone.

Weekly ticket prices would be up to: $83.75 within the City Zone; $105.25 for Suburban-City travel; and $54.25 within the Suburban Zone.

 

Under this proposal, EVERYONE except those traveling from Zone 10> on LIRR to Zone 1 will get a fare increase. Peak hour tickets will be eliminated so anyone who is riding  Zone 7> will save money under this proposal. Everyone else will get a fare increase.

Monthly/Weekly tickets. Everyone Zone >7 will get a discount on their monthly/weeklies from Zone 1

Of course Jamaica and Zone 3 gets the hose under this scenario. They have to travel further than Zone 9 to get any saving from their monthly/weekly.

 

Under Metro North, this is a worse proposal. This will kill all Intra-city ridership. (not that they have that many anyways). Intermediate Fares will also go up significantly from Fordham. Right now N White Plains- Fordham is $3. This will go up to $14.75. In fact, under this proposal, if you do not currently get on GCT or H-125, you will get hosed.

https://new.mta.info/transparency/fares-and-tolls-2020/proposals

 

The other proposals are more "normal" fare increases. 

 

[Lex]

As far as I'm concerned, the "alternate zone" proposal is terrible for a combination of too few zones and an inner zone that is too small, and that's disregarding Metro-North's considerably higher prices (for what?!).

[paulrivera]

4 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Under Metro North, this is a worse proposal. This will kill all Intra-city ridership. (not that they have that many anyways). Intermediate Fares will also go up significantly from Fordham. Right now N White Plains- Fordham is $3. This will go up to $14.75. In fact, under this proposal, if you do not currently get on GCT or H-125, you will get hosed.

https://new.mta.info/transparency/fares-and-tolls-2020/proposals

 

The other proposals are more "normal" fare increases. 

 

Actually, the Bronx stations will be considered suburban for the purpose of this scenario.

2% flat

4% flat:

These flat fares only benefit me personally if I'm going a really long distance like Fordham to New Haven (not sure if CTDOT would ever sign off on flat fares in CT) or Fordham to GCT.

Fordham to New Rochelle... sorry fam, Bee-Line is gonna be my go-to if these proposals stick.

edit: The Bronx is gonna be this weird mish-mash... Going to Manhattan, your fare actually goes *down*...

Edited December 1, 2020 by paulrivera

[Mtatransit]

3 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Actually, the Bronx stations will be considered suburban for the purpose of this scenario.

2% flat

4% flat:

These flat fares only benefit me personally if I'm going a really long distance like Fordham to New Haven (not sure if CTDOT would ever sign off on flat fares in CT) or Fordham to GCT.

Fordham to New Rochelle... sorry fam, Bee-Line is gonna be my go-to if these proposals stick.

edit: The Bronx is gonna be this weird mish-mash... Going to Manhattan, your fare actually goes *down*...

Thats better than I thought, but still Fordham to North White Plains would still double. In fact I believe you need to get north of Purdy to pay the same price as today. 

Bronx has always been this weird place on Metro North. Fares are cheap from the Bronx vs Manhattan, which is easily double, sometimes triple. 

 

This is compared to Queens for the LIRR which is an absolute ripoff (I honestly think the whole RR is a ripoff), maybe except for those traveling from Nassau-Nassau or Suffolk-Suffolk

[checkmatechamp13]

@paulrivera On the main page, it doesn't mention The Bronx as part of the suburban zone...and they also say with that proposal there would be no monthly discount and then just below it they put the prices of the monthly.

[Lil 57]

IMO the amount they want to raise the fares for the zones closer to the city this "flat fare" is straight out ridiculous, i.e. going to hempstead from Penn costs $9.25 now and with this it would be $14.50, over $5 more than before. Why should someone pay the same amount if they were going from Penn to Hempstead, a 20 mile trip as someone going from penn to montauk, an 115 mile trip? Also most of the ridership on the LIRR and MNR are coming from areas closer to the city, i.e. there are a lot more Nassau County riders than Suffolk County riders co this would mostly raise fares dramatically for the average rider. 

In terms of the LIRR, maybe you can do something like $6.75 for intra city travel, $9-$10 for Nassau county riders plus all the stations on the Babylon Branch and the electrified portion of the Huntington branch and $15 for the rest of Suffolk County. People traveling in suburban zones can pay $4-5.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 11/30/2020 at 7:47 PM, Lex said:

As far as I'm concerned, the "alternate zone" proposal is terrible for a combination of too few zones and an inner zone that is too small, and that's disregarding Metro-North's considerably higher prices (for what?!).

 

On 11/30/2020 at 11:31 PM, paulrivera said:

Actually, the Bronx stations will be considered suburban for the purpose of this scenario.

2% flat

4% flat:

These flat fares only benefit me personally if I'm going a really long distance like Fordham to New Haven (not sure if CTDOT would ever sign off on flat fares in CT) or Fordham to GCT.

Fordham to New Rochelle... sorry fam, Bee-Line is gonna be my go-to if these proposals stick.

edit: The Bronx is gonna be this weird mish-mash... Going to Manhattan, your fare actually goes *down*...

 

On 12/1/2020 at 3:16 AM, Mtatransit said:

Thats better than I thought, but still Fordham to North White Plains would still double. In fact I believe you need to get north of Purdy to pay the same price as today. 

Bronx has always been this weird place on Metro North. Fares are cheap from the Bronx vs Manhattan, which is easily double, sometimes triple. 

 

This is compared to Queens for the LIRR which is an absolute ripoff (I honestly think the whole RR is a ripoff), maybe except for those traveling from Nassau-Nassau or Suffolk-Suffolk

I support the intermediate fares going up. As someone that commutes to and from Manhattan from Riverdale, the intermediate commuters get a steal. There are a lot of them that get on in the South Bronx and then travel to say Yonkers and they should be paying more. For the last fare hike, the intermediate fare did not change. Peak service, they pay $3.00. I pay $9.25 from the station, not including the $2.75 if I take the shuttle bus to the station, so almost four times the price of what they pay. Off-peak, still $3.00 for them.

If they want to use the railroad, they should pay for it, or take the damn subway or the subway to the Bee Line or whatever.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Trickysticks]

I used to travel from Fordham to New Roc daily, that platform was always packed in the morning with reverse-commuters for places like White Plains, New Rochelle and Greenwich. More than doubling the price to New Rochelle from $3.00 to $7.75 seems like a surefire way to kill New Haven Line travel from the Bronx to those lower stations (MVE-New Roc). Greenwich and Port Chester going from $5 to $7.75 might be easier to swallow, but it's still pretty significant. I'm not super familiar with the Harlem line, but Fordham-White Plains jumping in price seems like a similar disaster.

Bronx fares being affordable is probably a large reason why Fordham is such a popular station. Sure, the trains can get pretty crowded (at least, they did some time ago), but standing for 10 minutes until the train gets to Mount Vernon really isn't that bad. I don't see much of a point in shooing these riders to slower forms of transportation.

[Lex]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I support the intermediate fares going up. As someone that commutes to and from Manhattan from Riverdale, the intermediate commuters get a steal. There are a lot of them that get on in the South Bronx and then travel to say Yonkers and they should be paying more. For the last fare hike, the intermediate fare did not change. Peak service, they pay $3.00. I pay $9.25 from the station, not including the $2.75 if I take the shuttle bus to the station, so almost four times the price of what they pay. Off-peak, still $3.00 for them.

If they want to use the railroad, they should pay for it, or take the damn subway or the subway to the Bee Line or whatever.

So you'd rather price them out of the system instead of pushing for your fare to be more reasonable.

All I can say is to never accuse anyone of elitism and take no offense if someone accuses you of said mentality, especially since you're talking about people in the state's poorest county.

[paulrivera]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I support the intermediate fares going up.

Stay on your express bus lane.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, Lex said:

So you'd rather price them out of the system instead of pushing for your fare to be more reasonable.

All I can say is to never accuse anyone of elitism and take no offense if someone accuses you of said mentality, especially since you're talking about people in the state's poorest county.

 

3 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Stay on your express bus lane.

Excuse me. I said I support the intermediate fares going up. I didn't say I supported them going up as proposed. Two different things. Don't put words in my mouth. Intermediate riders paid NO increase last time there was a fare hike, and I didn't say squat. Why should EVERYONE else that takes the railroad pay at least a 4% fare hike each time there's a hike while intermediate riders see NO increase at all? How is that for equity? If I pushed for my fare to be "more reasonable" as @Lex suggests, I'm sure those riders would've seen fare hikes last time instead of nothing (and believe me, I could certainly advocate for that, but don't), so I'm happy to pay my 4% as I did last time, so long as a rider like @paulrivera is also paying 4%, which did not happen last time. By comparison, I'm paying almost four times the cost of an intermediate trip ($9.75 + 2.75 for the Hudson Raillink) (actually more than four times when the shuttle bus is included) so asking those intermediate riders to pay their fair share is more than reasonable.

A 4% increase on a $3.00 fare works out to something like ~$3.10 - 3.15. You think there aren't riders in Jamaica or other parts of Queens that aren't poor? They were forced to cough up more though. Everyone should pay their fair share. Meanwhile, the subway fare is $2.75. If those riders in the South Bronx or West Bronx can't afford the extra cents, then neither should everyone else that's coughing up 4% more.

Local bus riders are poor too, yet they too paid more for their fare... See how that works? Everyone pays more and shares the pain for public transportation.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, Trickysticks said:

I used to travel from Fordham to New Roc daily, that platform was always packed in the morning with reverse-commuters for places like White Plains, New Rochelle and Greenwich. More than doubling the price to New Rochelle from $3.00 to $7.75 seems like a surefire way to kill New Haven Line travel from the Bronx to those lower stations (MVE-New Roc). Greenwich and Port Chester going from $5 to $7.75 might be easier to swallow, but it's still pretty significant. I'm not super familiar with the Harlem line, but Fordham-White Plains jumping in price seems like a similar disaster.

Bronx fares being affordable is probably a large reason why Fordham is such a popular station. Sure, the trains can get pretty crowded (at least, they did some time ago), but standing for 10 minutes until the train gets to Mount Vernon really isn't that bad. I don't see much of a point in shooing these riders to slower forms of transportation.

Not probably. That is THE reason. Maybe if they charged them the 4% last time as they should have when just about everyone else had to pay a 4% hike, this wouldn't be considered. It is quite steep, but I think it shows what happens when everyone else pays more and you allow some other riders to see NO fare increase at all.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

 

I support the intermediate fares going up. As someone that commutes to and from Manhattan from Riverdale, the intermediate commuters get a steal. There are a lot of them that get on in the South Bronx and then travel to say Yonkers and they should be paying more. For the last fare hike, the intermediate fare did not change. Peak service, they pay $3.00. I pay $9.25 from the station, not including the $2.75 if I take the shuttle bus to the station, so almost four times the price of what they pay. Off-peak, still $3.00 for them.

If they want to use the railroad, they should pay for it, or take the damn subway or the subway to the Bee Line or whatever.

I meant to write $9.75, not $9.25. $9.25 was before the last 4% hike...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 11/30/2020 at 7:47 PM, Lex said:

As far as I'm concerned, the "alternate zone" proposal is terrible for a combination of too few zones and an inner zone that is too small, and that's disregarding Metro-North's considerably higher prices (for what?!).

Oh please. Let's be clear here and not exaggerate. The intermediate fare for a Metro-North rider is currently $3.00. The subway fare is $2.75. That's a quarter more. The "considerably higher fares", people like myself pay. 

The fares are higher because it's a commuter service, not a subway. The reality is the railroads see high subsidies because they are expensive to run, particularly with the employees that operate the service. That is something that never seems to be talked about though.

The LIRR's subsidies are actually higher than Metro-North's subsidies.

https://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/8182-lirr-s-heavy-subsidies-and-the-coming-debate-over-mta-funding

Edited December 21, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[bobtehpanda]

17 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh please. Let's be clear here and not exaggerate. The intermediate fare for a Metro-North rider is currently $3.00. The subway fare is $2.75. That's a quarter more. The "considerably higher fares", people like myself pay. 

The fares are higher because it's a commuter service, not a subway. The reality is the railroads see high subsidies because they are expensive to run, particularly with the employees that operate the service. That is something that never seems to be talked about though.

The LIRR's subsidies are actually higher than Metro-North's subsidies.

https://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/8182-lirr-s-heavy-subsidies-and-the-coming-debate-over-mta-funding

People do talk about it here, we just stop talking about it so regularly because it's like pointing out the sky is blue and water is wet. The railroads obviously operate with a lot of labor but pointing it out constantly is kind of exhausting, particularly when you start talking with people who have a vested interest in the current system for fairly obvious reasons, and if you don't bring the topic up it's a lot easier to be civil.

Peak fares in the peak direction are very expensive because capacity into Manhattan in the rush hour direction is very expensive, to the point where we've spent $12B on a massive hole under Grand Central. The size of the fleet and payroll is pretty much determined by peak demands. The flip side of that is that seats to unpopular terminals or against the rush hour direction costs pretty much nothing to provide, since there's not that much storage space at the Manhattan terminals, the employees and trains have to be repositioned for their next trips, and if the employees are on the clock you may as well put them on a service.

And really the results speak for themselves. Atlantic Ticket was a poorly advertised LIRR program that didn't even have a monthly ticket, and yet the slashing of fares created a 45% revenue increase.

Quote

In 2019, despite lowering fares by 16% with the Atlantic Ticket, revenue between eligible station pairs increased by 45% over 2016, net of a fare hike.  This pilot continues to show overwhelmingly that transit ridership is highly elastic to fare pricing, especially in these sorts of situations where high fares have consistently been a barrier to the use of LIRR and Metro-North for intra-city trips.

Adding everything together, the LIRR is now collecting more than $5 million more in fare revenue per year compared to just a few years ago...and they have not increased service at all between these stations, so this is all pure margin. 

(Plus IIRC CT uses it to boost their economy, since it's an expensive place to live and they need service workers to come from somewhere.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

People do talk about it here, we just stop talking about it so regularly because it's like pointing out the sky is blue and water is wet. The railroads obviously operate with a lot of labor but pointing it out constantly is kind of exhausting, particularly when you start talking with people who have a vested interest in the current system for fairly obvious reasons, and if you don't bring the topic up it's a lot easier to be civil.

Peak fares in the peak direction are very expensive because capacity into Manhattan in the rush hour direction is very expensive, to the point where we've spent $12B on a massive hole under Grand Central. The size of the fleet and payroll is pretty much determined by peak demands. The flip side of that is that seats to unpopular terminals or against the rush hour direction costs pretty much nothing to provide, since there's not that much storage space at the Manhattan terminals, the employees and trains have to be repositioned for their next trips, and if the employees are on the clock you may as well put them on a service.

And really the results speak for themselves. Atlantic Ticket was a poorly advertised LIRR program that didn't even have a monthly ticket, and yet the slashing of fares created a 45% revenue increase.

(Plus IIRC CT uses it to boost their economy, since it's an expensive place to live and they need service workers to come from somewhere.)

That's all fine and good, but stations like Fordham are so popular because lots of people get on there to avoid the higher fares, just as people do at the Marble Hill station, which is fine, but that doesn't mean that those people should not see a fare hike when everyone else does.

Now they go and propose this, which makes no sense. Just raise it 4% if they're going to raise fares on everyone else by 4%. 

[paulrivera]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's all fine and good, but stations like Fordham are so popular because lots of people get on there to avoid the higher fares, just as people do at the Marble Hill station

I don't doubt Marble Hill riders coming from elsewhere for a cheaper commute (a frequent  train service around the corner makes a cheap west side commute pretty worthwhile, unlike Fordham where you have to walk 7 blocks uphill for the subway), but Fordham is a very high density neighborhood which attracts its own ridership base as well. There's also plenty of people (or at least there were prior to COVID) that would commute reverse-peak from Fordham to White Plains and New Rochelle (and even Stamford to a lesser extent.)

As for the fares, they should indeed be spread out evenly using existing fare zones (4% or no more than 5% every two years, with caps on monthly pass increases because the monthlies are already creeping towards $500 in some cases.) $10 peak per ticket from the Bronx to Manhattan is kinda silly though, that fare should be within a dollar of the express bus at all times in my opinion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

I don't doubt Marble Hill riders coming from elsewhere for a cheaper commute (a frequent  train service around the corner makes a cheap west side commute pretty worthwhile, unlike Fordham where you have to walk 7 blocks uphill for the subway), but Fordham is a very high density neighborhood which attracts its own ridership base as well. There's also plenty of people (or at least there were prior to COVID) that would commute reverse-peak from Fordham to White Plains and New Rochelle (and even Stamford to a lesser extent.)

As for the fares, they should indeed be spread out evenly using existing fare zones (4% or no more than 5% every two years, with caps on monthly pass increases because the monthlies are already creeping towards $500 in some cases.) $10 peak per ticket from the Bronx to Manhattan is kinda silly though, that fare should be within a dollar of the express bus at all times in my opinion.

I've used the Hudson, Harlem and New Haven lines extensively over the years.  With my Hudson line pass, I would often ride on the other lines that way, so I got a really good feel of ridership patterns. The New Haven line I do use into Westchester and Connecticut (not with the pass, but single tickets, sometimes from Fordham even).  

My honest opinion is that there should be NO fare increases this year for anyone and I stated that when I spoke before the  board a few weeks ago on the proposed fare hike hearings. On the Metro-North side, getting one train an hour off-peak is just not convenient for me, so I've been sticking with the express buses more the last few months. The Hudson Line has been seeing a number of delays too. One weekend I took the train from Riverdale, and at the Spuyten Duyvil station, we were stuck there for almost 30 minutes because of some track issue or something. The trains have been very clean, but they should be at $9.75 (peak) and $7.25 off-peak.

They're reaching a point to where riders like myself and those in Westchester don't see the value in the higher fares compared to the service. That is likely the reason they are looking at the intermediate fares because they've been talking about the need to cap fares for the riders that are further out, otherwise it is cheaper for them to just drive into Manhattan. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RtrainBlues]

Was surprised at just how crowded the Metro-North platform northbound at Fordham can get.  Massive crowding during off-peak hours, obviously from people looking for a cheaper fare to Connecticut. It's a quick ride thru Manhattan and the Bronx on the D express to Fordham Road for Metro-North. 

As an aside, quite a weird platform setup at Fordham Road (I'm assuming the middle track is used for peak direction D express trains).  During off-peak hours at Fordham Road, I've helped people going southbound, telling them they have to keep walking all the way down until they see ANOTHER platform, since that's the platform the D will stop at.

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, RtrainBlues said:

Was surprised at just how crowded the Metro-North platform northbound at Fordham can get.  Massive crowding during off-peak hours, obviously from people looking for a cheaper fare to Connecticut.

Fordham is a major major major hub. There's more pedestrian traffic in the Fordham Road neighborhood than Times Square itself.

They're not all from Manhattan, trust me. Fordham is a very densely populated neighborhood on top of being a major transit hub.

[checkmatechamp13]

@RtrainBlues That is correct. The stops on the middle track and opens its doors on the side that corresponds to the direction it travels in.

[Lex]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

Fordham is a major major major hub. There's more pedestrian traffic in the Fordham Road neighborhood than Times Square itself.

They're not all from Manhattan, trust me. Fordham is a very densely populated neighborhood on top of being a major transit hub.

Imagine if it had two island platforms instead of two side platforms.

[Mtatransit]

5 hours ago, RtrainBlues said:

Was surprised at just how crowded the Metro-North platform northbound at Fordham can get.  Massive crowding during off-peak hours, obviously from people looking for a cheaper fare to Connecticut. It's a quick ride thru Manhattan and the Bronx on the D express to Fordham Road for Metro-North. 

As an aside, quite a weird platform setup at Fordham Road (I'm assuming the middle track is used for peak direction D express trains).  During off-peak hours at Fordham Road, I've helped people going southbound, telling them they have to keep walking all the way down until they see ANOTHER platform, since that's the platform the D will stop at.

Its certainly cheaper and no doubt there's people who would take it into Zone 1 if the fares were cheaper (I saw someone deciding if they want to get off at Fordham or risk getting caught and riding to Harlem and paying $10 extra)

The negative for NHL is that if you get off at Fordham, you have to take a local train most of the time

3 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Fordham is a major major major hub. There's more pedestrian traffic in the Fordham Road neighborhood than Times Square itself.

They're not all from Manhattan, trust me. Fordham is a very densely populated neighborhood on top of being a major transit hub.

I think Fordham de facto serves as the main Metro North Station in the Bronx. Service at Fordham is much better than other local stations in the Bronx. That and people like myself who wants to avoid Zone 1 ripoff fares.

2 hours ago, Lex said:

Imagine if it had two island platforms instead of two side platforms.

I believe it does have two island platform. I think there is just that wall covering half of the plaform. Making it look like it is a side platform

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, RtrainBlues said:

Was surprised at just how crowded the Metro-North platform northbound at Fordham can get.  Massive crowding during off-peak hours, obviously from people looking for a cheaper fare to Connecticut. It's a quick ride thru Manhattan and the Bronx on the D express to Fordham Road for Metro-North. 

As an aside, quite a weird platform setup at Fordham Road (I'm assuming the middle track is used for peak direction D express trains).  During off-peak hours at Fordham Road, I've helped people going southbound, telling them they have to keep walking all the way down until they see ANOTHER platform, since that's the platform the D will stop at.

 

4 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Fordham is a major major major hub. There's more pedestrian traffic in the Fordham Road neighborhood than Times Square itself.

They're not all from Manhattan, trust me. Fordham is a very densely populated neighborhood on top of being a major transit hub.

Paul is correct in that Fordham is a major transit hub, but part of the increase in use at that station is being created by gentrification, along with higher Metro-North fares. I don't use the  train much, but the times that I did over the last few years, I noticed a HUGE increase in riders from years' past, and I board either at 242nd, 238th or 231st. In Riverdale near Broadway, we've been dealing with all of these people driving down from Yonkers taking up all of the parking from people that live here near the subway because they don't want to pay for Metro-North, even some people that can afford the fares. Then you have the people being pushed out of the City that can't afford the fares, also piling on the subway. The same is true at Fordham. After Fordham, there aren't any real convenient subway connections. The Tremont station is in an isolated area, as is the Melrose station, so it's Fordham. Woodlawn is also an option for some, but that station sits in a valley if you will, with hills on either side, and very very steep ones going towards the  and  line. I'm sure some are also there for shopping, cheap eats and all of that, but the fares are certainly a factor. You have the folks just over the boarder in Mount Vernon and elsewhere that come down too. I have noticed a similar pattern at Marble Hill, when I take Metro-North going home. If I don't get a semi-express train that skips Marble Hill, all of these people pack on the train there to avoid that higher fare. This happened after the most recent fare hikes.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens if they really jack up those intermediate fares because those people will not be able to afford it.  I guess they would pack on the Bee-Line buses where possible? I don't know what other option there would be...

[Lex]

46 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

I believe it does have two island platform. I think there is just that wall covering half of the plaform. Making it look like it is a side platform

That's the Concourse's Fordham Road station, not Metro-North's Fordham station.