B35 via Church Posted February 24 Share #151 Posted February 24 On 2/22/2024 at 8:41 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said: 1] For me I tried to consider both route mileage and ridership with frequency as much as possible. It made it a little hard at times given that I think that some routes are more or less in the same general area (which ended up happening a bit more than expected). I suppose the ranking comes out more towards ridership since most of those tie-breaking decisions on my end ultimately came down to route potential, but that's how I approached it. 2] Route 2 was one of the tougher ones to rank, because between it, the 6, 7 and 51 I figured they will eventually be around the same (for different reasons). However I didn't see either 2 or 6 doing worse than the 51 overall. What bumped up the 6 was the connection at Central lslip LIRR to other routes and the Ronkonkoma, and it being an airport connection. I think it will take more time for the Airport portion to pick up but I can see it eventually being used decently. However, with the 2 the main thing was that given that the route now provides connections to NICE Bus, you might eventually see more ridership on the route. Especially since it's absolute garbage to get down to the Babylon Branch if you're not near it on public transit. Also while the shift of riders from the former S42 and S20 to Route 2 plus any new riders who start/end their trips west of Babylon due to the new frequencies/coverage will be relatively low, collectively they'll add enough to where I believe it gives the 2 the edge over the 6. While the 51 is a route with some particularly strong segments and more streamlined service than the previous network, I think the existing section between Smith Haven and Patchogue drags it down considerably. Now IDK what the ongoing redevelopment around Ronkonkoma LIRR will do going forward, but I suppose it'll boost it up a bit. I also suppose the direct connection from Stony Brook to the Ronkonkoma Branch could be somewhat enticing for some in the long run (instead of only having the PJ Branch as a suitable option). However the LIRR's dicking around of service post-ESA and service patterns (to keep it short, SMFH) will probably hurt those numbers. Basically, I see whatever the 51 currently has as being more or less the case further down the line, with maybe a small bump. 1] The easiest part for me was ranking the 30 min. routes, which I why I ranked them before plugging the hourly routes in to complete the list.... Albeit for different reasons, my expectation of the hourly routes being around the same benchmark when it comes to ridership/mile, is what made ranking them more difficult/challenging.... Specifically, comparing estimations of how long the routes are to one another.... To sum it up, if I had the route mileage of all the routes, I'd have been finished this list - maybe even within minutes of first seeing the post/inquiry.... 2] Out of those 4 routes you list (#2, #6, #7, #51), the #7 to me is the most stable.... "Stable", in the sense that there's no part of the #7 that I'm all that worried about (in the 3 full rides I had thus far on the #7, the portion north of Jericho Tpke. is actually seeing more ridership than I expected) when it comes to potentially waning, or otherwise wishy-washy ridership.... I can't say the same about the #2, #6, or the #51.... I remember @hounddriver made a post referencing how empty the buses are on the north shore.... Even though I hadn't rode any of the routes yet at that time, I nodded my head as if to be like "yeah, I'm not surprised by that at all".... The first thing I said to myself when I first saw the post, was that the old S54 up there significantly fell off years ago (to the point where demand for the S58 was higher than that of the S54 in the north shore - which is quite sad, considering the S58 only went as far west as Huntington Square Mall in that region of the county), so I didn't necessarily think the new network would make things better in that regard.... As for the #2, by revamping the network the way they did, there's less of a need to use it as a conduit to get to other routes (like what used to be the case with the extent it was done with the S40 at Bay Shore & Patchogue)... Couple that with running it to Amityville & the having of nothing running to/from it in a northerly-southerly fashion in that Bohemia, Sayville, etc. part of the county, I am not optimistic for the route at all... NICE bus over at Amityville isn't going to bring near as much people to the route to have me be any more optimistic for it.... To me, the S40 was more than a coverage route... The #2 OTOH to me, just reeks coverage route (which includes for whatever meager amt. of former S20 & S42 riders that would use it) at this point.... They should've gotten rid of the S42 around the time they got rid of the 1B, 5A, 7D/E, etc.... As for the #51, Station Yards will do just as much for the route as Wyandanch Rising has/will do for the #4 & the #12 ... At best, it'll take some people to/from Downtown Patchogue (which just seems so... fake, to me... Walking around there, I feel like I'm in a video game or something - the people congregating in those establishments along Montauk Hwy. there even LOOK like AI renderings... but that's neither here nor there), but I don't even see that happening.... In any event, while IDK exactly how the route mileage compares between the #2 & the #51, I see more potential for the #51 than I do the #2.... I don't see the #6 doing better than either; the whole northern half of the route is a large reason for that.... On 2/22/2024 at 8:41 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said: To answer your question regarding Route 4, even though I have the 4 ahead of the 1 it's not a situation where it's running laps ahead. That's also why I say in my rankings post that I could see the 4 beating out the 1. Overall I would put them around the same but the 4 has the advantage way I see it. Potential gains on the Amityville-Brentwood section in particular is what led to my ranking. With Amityville, Wyandanch, Deer Park and Brentwood now having more frequent and later service (especially on weekends - those last S33 buses from Sunrise during the 4-5 PM hours were early but the worst part was that they didn't even travel the full route!), it will definitely be used. On top of that, I can see loads in that section beating out what you typically see on the 1. That's not to say the part eastern of Brentwood wouldn't do well either, but it would not be to the same degree as points west. That's where it would lower the overall efficiency of the entire 4 (and it's a decent chunk of the route as well). I'm aware that the 58 and 5 would chip in to Smith Haven ridership, however I don't see it being too much of an issue. For starters, I don't see the 5 in particular taking too much away from the 4 because of its indirect route. Maybe if they live near the 5 perhaps, but the 4 beats it out even with the Central Islip stopover. The 58 perhaps is more competitive with the 4, so maybe that can do some numbers, however I do not see it taking too much away either. Plus any ridership gains on that section west of Brentwood due to more frequent service and better connectivity with points west of Brentwood, would likely make up the losses in mall ridership to the 58. Cool. I can see the #4 garnering more overall ridership than the #1, but not to the extent where it'd accomplish having a higher ridership/mile ranking than it... The #4 would just about have to run laps (so to speak) in the ridership department for it to be more efficient than the #1.... That's why I asked how much more usage do you see it getting over the #1... As for what you're saying about the #58, while I still despise having it run to Brentwood from Riverhead, I will admit that the demand to/from Brentwood actually exceeds what I thought it would (which was never my concern, as if to say it would yield little usage... I just think the route from end to end is overkill, but just thought I'd point that out).... What I still gotta find out is, just how far east does most of that demand pan... Just to be clear, we're making the same point about the #5, as it relates to the #4's efficiency & I agree with the demand for the #58 b/w Brentwood & Smith Haven being stronger than that of the #5 b/w the same 2 points... I wasn't at all trying to convey that the #5's running to Smith Haven would significantly affect the #4; "chipping in" to the ridership was the only point I was making with that... Speaking of Smith Haven, I'm not sure what's going on, but the place isn't nearly a madhouse with waiting pax. as it used to be - at least not in my experiences.... Still don't think it should be one of the timed connection points... If it's a testament to the new network providing less of a need for more people to be xferring there, I wouldn't know it.... That, and/or the new network being a stark decrease in overall/county-wide coverage compared to the old network, bringing less people to the mall as a result... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 1 Share #152 Posted March 1 On 2/24/2024 at 5:13 PM, B35 via Church said: 1] The easiest part for me was ranking the 30 min. routes, which I why I ranked them before plugging the hourly routes in to complete the list.... Albeit for different reasons, my expectation of the hourly routes being around the same benchmark when it comes to ridership/mile, is what made ranking them more difficult/challenging.... Specifically, comparing estimations of how long the routes are to one another.... To sum it up, if I had the route mileage of all the routes, I'd have been finished this list - maybe even within minutes of first seeing the post/inquiry.... 2] Out of those 4 routes you list (#2, #6, #7, #51), the #7 to me is the most stable.... "Stable", in the sense that there's no part of the #7 that I'm all that worried about (in the 3 full rides I had thus far on the #7, the portion north of Jericho Tpke. is actually seeing more ridership than I expected) when it comes to potentially waning, or otherwise wishy-washy ridership.... I can't say the same about the #2, #6, or the #51.... I remember @hounddriver made a post referencing how empty the buses are on the north shore.... Even though I hadn't rode any of the routes yet at that time, I nodded my head as if to be like "yeah, I'm not surprised by that at all".... The first thing I said to myself when I first saw the post, was that the old S54 up there significantly fell off years ago (to the point where demand for the S58 was higher than that of the S54 in the north shore - which is quite sad, considering the S58 only went as far west as Huntington Square Mall in that region of the county), so I didn't necessarily think the new network would make things better in that regard.... As for the #2, by revamping the network the way they did, there's less of a need to use it as a conduit to get to other routes (like what used to be the case with the extent it was done with the S40 at Bay Shore & Patchogue)... Couple that with running it to Amityville & the having of nothing running to/from it in a northerly-southerly fashion in that Bohemia, Sayville, etc. part of the county, I am not optimistic for the route at all... NICE bus over at Amityville isn't going to bring near as much people to the route to have me be any more optimistic for it.... To me, the S40 was more than a coverage route... The #2 OTOH to me, just reeks coverage route (which includes for whatever meager amt. of former S20 & S42 riders that would use it) at this point.... They should've gotten rid of the S42 around the time they got rid of the 1B, 5A, 7D/E, etc.... As for the #51, Station Yards will do just as much for the route as Wyandanch Rising has/will do for the #4 & the #12 ... At best, it'll take some people to/from Downtown Patchogue (which just seems so... fake, to me... Walking around there, I feel like I'm in a video game or something - the people congregating in those establishments along Montauk Hwy. there even LOOK like AI renderings... but that's neither here nor there), but I don't even see that happening.... In any event, while IDK exactly how the route mileage compares between the #2 & the #51, I see more potential for the #51 than I do the #2.... I don't see the #6 doing better than either; the whole northern half of the route is a large reason for that.... 1] Interesting, because I seemed to have the opposite issue (the hourly routes were the easier ones to rank than the 30-minute routes). With the exception of the 10, most of the hourly routes were similar to the route they replaced in many ways. Way I saw it was that I had some sort of baseline there to work with, and then the differences in routing and ridership potential (or losses) with respect to mileage was based up on my interpretation and predictions. The 30-minute routes were the opposite in many cases, with many different segments meshed together. Out of those routes the 1 was the easiest to rank for quite obvious reasons, the 51 was the most difficult to rank followed by the 2. However that goes back to how we ended up ranking said routes (lean towards ridership vs. mileage). 2] I still have yet to ride out the new SCT network, don't know when that will happen (I just don't have the enthusiasm to dedicate a whole day for SCT like I may have had in the past, even compared to a year - shit's cratered drastically). However I tend to agree with that sentiment, I would say the same thing. Time will tell but I think ridership on the 7 will hold on given that the S41 was on the higher end of ridership and overall efficiency. That and it covers part of the old S45 and the Brentwood-Bay Shore rider base. It's unfortunate to hear that about the S54, I guess what also doesn't help the 6 is that even in that part of the county its duplicated quite a bit with the H40. Not the same headways but in the case of the new 6 every rider counts. Part of the issue too, way I see is that Walt Whitman Mall is still being used as a major hub in that area, when it's just no longer the same anymore like it might have been in the past. Same situation with Sunrise Mall further down, everything is now moving towards Amityville LIRR even if its relatively slow (you still got the n19, n71 weekdays and n80 still terminating there, who know if that changes). However what complicates things further north a bit is HART. It was a mistake to not include those routes given how many duplicate the 30 minute routes on portions of their routes. Would have also liked to see more of a hub around Huntington Station if there was any part within the town that would make sense. The 51 is basically in a similar category with the other three routes previously mentioned (2, 6, and 7) because it's a combination of previously lightly used, moderate, and extremely well used segments (not proportional at all). If anything it skews more towards moderate (if I'm being charitable) and lightly used segments, with very little change overall. So yeah I think we're on the same page regarding future Ronkonkoma development more or less. I would have no issue being wrong about usage not being significantly improved with Station Yards, but I am under no illusion given that we're talking about the suburbs here. On 2/24/2024 at 5:13 PM, B35 via Church said: Cool. I can see the #4 garnering more overall ridership than the #1, but not to the extent where it'd accomplish having a higher ridership/mile ranking than it... The #4 would just about have to run laps (so to speak) in the ridership department for it to be more efficient than the #1.... That's why I asked how much more usage do you see it getting over the #1... As for what you're saying about the #58, while I still despise having it run to Brentwood from Riverhead, I will admit that the demand to/from Brentwood actually exceeds what I thought it would (which was never my concern, as if to say it would yield little usage... I just think the route from end to end is overkill, but just thought I'd point that out).... What I still gotta find out is, just how far east does most of that demand pan... Just to be clear, we're making the same point about the #5, as it relates to the #4's efficiency & I agree with the demand for the #58 b/w Brentwood & Smith Haven being stronger than that of the #5 b/w the same 2 points... I wasn't at all trying to convey that the #5's running to Smith Haven would significantly affect the #4; "chipping in" to the ridership was the only point I was making with that... Speaking of Smith Haven, I'm not sure what's going on, but the place isn't nearly a madhouse with waiting pax. as it used to be - at least not in my experiences.... Still don't think it should be one of the timed connection points... If it's a testament to the new network providing less of a need for more people to be xferring there, I wouldn't know it.... That, and/or the new network being a stark decrease in overall/county-wide coverage compared to the old network, bringing less people to the mall as a result... With the 4 I guess it depends mainly how the two halves (in this case I'm considering Brentwood LIRR as the midpoint) compare to the 1. Like I previously mentioned, I can see the 4 getting better loads than the 1 west of Brentwood. The 4 between Amityville and Brentwood is roughly around a mile shorter than the 1 (~14 vs. ~15 miles) , so if you get around 93% of the ridership the 1 gets that would basically put you on par with the 1. Brentwood to Smith Haven is about 2/3s of the the existing route 1 (10 vs. 15 miles), so if you get 66% of what the 1 gets overall then that puts you on par. Given those numbers, I don't think it's impossible for the 4 to potentially beat out the 1. Even the weaker eastern segment, is not a "weak" segment way I see it. In sheer overall ridership yeah the 4 would have to do significantly better than the 1 because of the longer routes. However if you see view it the way that I outlined it above, it's not as far-fetched as it may sound. The 4 is also one of very few routes which I can see decent gains in ridership, which I think would put in a position where it can rival the 1. However in terms of average ridership per mile, the 4 and the 1 will likely be close, which is what I'm referring to when I say it's not "running laps ahead" of the 1. Regarding the 5 and 58, yeah I get that and all. Just explaining my view on that situation as it relates to impacting overall ridership on the 4. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 2 Author Share #153 Posted March 2 @B35 via Church @BM5 via Woodhaven FWIW, when I took my second trip out there on a Sunday, the northern section of the 6 actually did better than the southern section (basically, there were about 7-8 people leaving Patchogue, who slowly trickled off down the line, and then 5-6 people got on at two stops along Wheeler Road in Central Islip, and another 7-8 people at various stops along Jericho Turnpike). Not sure how it does on the weekdays when the full connections at Central Islip are in effect (on weekends and evenings, half the buses connect at one part of the hour, and the other half connect at the opposite part of the hour). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 3 Share #154 Posted March 3 On 3/1/2024 at 2:11 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said: It's unfortunate to hear that about the S54, I guess what also doesn't help the 6 is that even in that part of the county its duplicated quite a bit with the H40. Not the same headways but in the case of the new 6 every rider counts. Part of the issue too, way I see is that Walt Whitman Mall is still being used as a major hub in that area, when it's just no longer the same anymore like it might have been in the past. Same situation with Sunrise Mall further down, everything is now moving towards Amityville LIRR even if its relatively slow (you still got the n19, n71 weekdays and n80 still terminating there, who know if that changes). However what complicates things further north a bit is HART. It was a mistake to not include those routes given how many duplicate the 30 minute routes on portions of their routes. Would have also liked to see more of a hub around Huntington Station if there was any part within the town that would make sense. I haven't used HART since they did away with the brown/beige color scheme on their buses... I don't keep up on bus rosters & things like that, but it appears as if their entire fleet are all minibuses.... Anyway, they used to have more of an effect on the S54 at Whitman at least, but for years now, all I see getting off those things (HART buses) at Whitman, are stragglers.... That whole side of the bus area/terminal/whatever you wanna call it (the individual shelters for all the HART buses & the one for the n79) may as well be all one long ass bus shelter - similar to the ones inside Williamsburg Bridge Plaza.... While malls tend to make for ideal/off street bus terminals in the suburbs, I happen to agree with the sentiment regarding de-hubbing (lol) Whitman.... The new network did it with South Shore Mall; literally having nothing terminating there (and only having the one route; the #7, serving it).... There was too much redundancy with the old network b/w Bay Shore - Mechanicsville rd. & South Shore Mall.... The ironic part is that South Shore Mall still attracts the "average" mall shopper & has less bus service to/from it, while Whitman only attracts mall shoppers in a certain income bracket, but has an abundance of bus service.... As for Sunrise, I'm curious to see what NICE does with those routes, because I honestly don't see much of a point to having the n19, n54/55, n71, and n80 all running over to Amityville, On 3/1/2024 at 2:11 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said: With the 4 I guess it depends mainly how the two halves (in this case I'm considering Brentwood LIRR as the midpoint) compare to the 1. Like I previously mentioned, I can see the 4 getting better loads than the 1 west of Brentwood. The 4 between Amityville and Brentwood is roughly around a mile shorter than the 1 (~14 vs. ~15 miles) , so if you get around 93% of the ridership the 1 gets that would basically put you on par with the 1. Brentwood to Smith Haven is about 2/3s of the the existing route 1 (10 vs. 15 miles), so if you get 66% of what the 1 gets overall then that puts you on par. Given those numbers, I don't think it's impossible for the 4 to potentially beat out the 1. Even the weaker eastern segment, is not a "weak" segment way I see it. In sheer overall ridership yeah the 4 would have to do significantly better than the 1 because of the longer routes. However if you see view it the way that I outlined it above, it's not as far-fetched as it may sound. The 4 is also one of very few routes which I can see decent gains in ridership, which I think would put in a position where it can rival the 1. However in terms of average ridership per mile, the 4 and the 1 will likely be close, which is what I'm referring to when I say it's not "running laps ahead" of the 1.... Perceptionally, I suppose you could look at it that way if it helps (comparing separate segments of the #4, each to the totality of the #1), but to me it's immaterial.... Even if I were to resort to segmentizing, I still have to get back to the point where I'm analyzing the totality of the route.... I mean, especially here that you convey that the #4 is appx. at 24 miles & the #1 at appx. 15 miles, oh that further solidifies my stance on not ranking the #4 as the most efficient route.... I can't put any less stock at an almost double-digit distance difference between the 2 routes, than for whatever ceiling I'd ultimately have total #4 patronage at... Putting that another way, I don't see the #4 getting nearly that much more usage than the #1 to even break even (as in, to the point where they'd be equal in the ridership/mile category), let alone surpass the #1in that category.... The #4 will beat out the #1 in total ridership, but I don't see it being to the point where it's more efficient than the #1.... The only reason I wouldn't render the upper-third portion of #4 (say, b/w Central Islip & Smith Haven) as weak, is solely because of Smith Haven itself.... Nichols rd. has long been virtually an unofficial nonstop portion b/w Central Islip & Lake Grove on the old #3D for the longest (it was the only part of my former commute b/w LIRR Central Islip & SUNY Stony Brook that I looked forward to.... buses crawled like shit to get to the campus from Smith Haven {which I absolutely despised}, and I seldom took the old #3D to Brentwood on the commute home b/c Suffolk av. was plagued with more traffic b/w LIRR Central Islip & LIRR Brentwood back then, compared to now).... Traffic moves better along Suffolk av. nowadays, but from my few amount of rides on the #4 thus far (four total), there's undoubtedly less people on these #4's, compared to #3D's to/from Smith Haven.... There's a couple reasons I can think of as to why that is, but overall patronage (regardless of route) in/out of Smith Haven I would keep a watchful eye on if I were SCT... Furthermore, while I get that it was done for coverage purposes & connectivity reasons, I'm not as wild about having the #4 running to Amityville (the lower-third of the route basically) - but at least Straight Path will go way more towards aiding in having the #4 eventually accumulate more overall usage than the #1.... If the #4 perhaps ran to Babylon instead, we wouldn't be having this discussion, as such a route would undoubtedly be more robust/compact than the #1.... Those projected percentages you got there, I simply think are too ambitious; I don't see the #4 west of Brentwood garnering appx. 93% of total #1 usage (for starters, unfortunately, I'm still noticing a fair amt. of people taking (WB) trains along the Main Line within the county for short distances), nor see the #4 east of Brentwood garnering appx. 66% of total #1 usage... To sum this up, while the two routes would be within a certain proximity for the top spot in the ridership/mile category, where we differ here is the sheer level/difference of plentifulness of total ridership on the #4, compared to the #1. 13 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said: @B35 via Church @BM5 via Woodhaven FWIW, when I took my second trip out there on a Sunday, the northern section of the 6 actually did better than the southern section (basically, there were about 7-8 people leaving Patchogue, who slowly trickled off down the line, and then 5-6 people got on at two stops along Wheeler Road in Central Islip, and another 7-8 people at various stops along Jericho Turnpike). Not sure how it does on the weekdays when the full connections at Central Islip are in effect (on weekends and evenings, half the buses connect at one part of the hour, and the other half connect at the opposite part of the hour). I've taken the full #6 twice thus far; both towards Whitman.... First time was on 1/20 & the most recent time was this past Wednesday (love this new 4 day work schedule).... The former of the two was on a dreary Saturday (kind of like today, minus the rain); I can safely say that 7-8 total pax. (myself included) didn't embark on that trip... The latter of the two definitely had less than 20 something total people on it.... I'd say it was closer to 15 ppl. than 20 & most people were off the bus after we served the North Complex.... There was only 1 person that boarded along Jericho Tpke (couldve been another dude, but dude needed the #7)... It was only me & some other dude that got off at Whitman... We both got on the Amityville bound#1 - I took it to Amityville, whereas dude got off b/w rt. 109 & the Southern State. At minimum, your trip only illustrates that SCT should have BEEN rolled out with Sunday service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 16 Author Share #155 Posted March 16 Service Notice: Beginning Monday March 18th, the Long Island MacArthur Airport stop on Route 6 will relocate 500 feet east of its current location, to the Airport's Ground Transportation Center. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 13 Share #156 Posted April 13 On 2/22/2024 at 7:05 AM, checkmatechamp13 said: @B35 via Church Personally, I think the 17 stint north of the LIRR would be better tied into the 5. (So I would have the 5 run from Pilgrim straight to Hauppauge, and then to Central Islip, while the 17 would just run from Central Islip LIRR to Islip LIRR station). To cover the portion north of Hauppauge, I would have the 11 run to Smith Haven. There's no need for 3 routes from Brentwood to Hauppauge (5, 11, 58) and 3 routes from Brentwood to Smith Haven (4, 5, 58), and nothing should be ending in Hauppauge (evening/weekend ridership is basically nonexistent) The connections that the 5 currently makes at Brentwood can be made in either Hauppauge, Central Islip, or Deer Park. The savings from this would be reinvested into an hourly route down Udall Road (basically, a short-turn of the old S27...it could go to Tanger Deer Park or Deer Park LIRR, either one is fine by me) I'd also try my hand at combining the 52A/B with the southern part of the 17, and see if the connections to points east would help draw more ridership from that section of Central Islip. Ever since they came out with the revision of the initial draft, I've stated (on here) that I thought the #11 should've ran to Smith Haven over the #5.... Specifically, I would do 2 things with the #11 at this point regarding that: Smithtown is overserved with the current #5 (30 min. headways)... Not only that, but it's a waste of time having it sit in traffic in Smithtown to have every trip (on weekdays) pick up/drop off almost nobody... The waste-of-timeness (so to speak) includes the backtrack from the NYS Office Bldg. to have it serve more of Smithtown (as in, via the North Complex & via Old Willets Path)... With that said, not only would I reduce service to hourly in Smithtown, I would have a branch of the #11 to Smith Haven running via rt. 111 after serving the NYS Office Bldg.... I see what's going on with the #58 to Brentwood & now I'm more than convinced that the #58 should be cut back to Smith Haven.... Not because that it doesn't do well, but because too sizeable a portion of pax. getting off at Brentwood are xferring to #7's or #11's... That, and quite frankly, I think it's ultimately more beneficial to have the #58 & the #62 be the (respective) Smith Haven - Riverhead routes & the #11 offering a 1-seat ride b/w Smith Haven & points south of Brentwood (towards Bay Shore), than the current setup with having the #58 be a Brentwood - Riverhead route & the #11 being one-half of a deliberate/all-day interlining scenario with a route I don't think should even exist in its totality in the first place (of course, I'm talking about the #17 here).... So I say all that to say, I'd have the other hourly branch of an #11 to Smith Haven bypassing Smithtown via the Smithtown Bypass I honestly don't care if each branch gets a separate route number or not, but the point is, I'd say it'd be well worth it for a Bay Shore - Smith Haven route hitting (the pulse point that is) Brentwood, and industrial & governmental (lol) Hauppauge in the process.... ---------------------- As far as the #5 is concerned, my outlook thus far on it, unfortunately, is rather low..... Even given the whole 3 routes doing Brentwood - Smith Haven & 3 routes doing Brentwood - Hauppauge bit, I would look into dismantling it before having it run up to Hauppauge from Babylon, to then run back down to LIRR Central Islip (never mind that I don't think anything should be terminating there to begin with)... Speaking of which, if it's anything that should perhaps take over parts of the #17 north of the main line, it's one of the #52 branches.... Have one of them continue westward along Motor Pkwy down Hawthorne or something.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted April 20 Share #157 Posted April 20 (edited) 10B/10C service will be eliminated on April 28th. That is the same day that the microtransit zone is going to begin. https://sctbus.org/SCT-On-Demand SMH at all this microtransit craze going on that have all these transit agencies going f**king stupid with it. I can maybe get East Hampton (10B area) as a microtransit zone (and don't have issue with the Southampton one which replaced the 10A), but gutting East Hampton to Montauk fixed-route service? That trip takes quite some time to do (to get to someone either traveling within Montauk, or between East Hampton and Montauk). The round trip will add up, there should have been a fixed route between those two points. Complete joke and disappointing. On a sidenote, I can only imagine the nonsense that will will come out whenever the final Westchester redesign plan comes through which is arguably worse in scale than with Suffolk. Edited April 20 by BM5 via Woodhaven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted April 20 Share #158 Posted April 20 1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said: 10B/10C service will be eliminated on April 28th. That is the same day that the microtransit zone is going to begin. https://sctbus.org/SCT-On-Demand SMH at all this microtransit craze going on that have all these transit agencies going f**king stupid with it. I can maybe get East Hampton (10B area) as a microtransit zone (and don't have issue with the Southampton one which replaced the 10A), but gutting East Hampton to Montauk fixed-route service? That trip takes quite some time to do (to get to someone either traveling within Montauk, or between East Hampton and Montauk). The round trip will add up, there should have been a fixed route between those two points. Complete joke and disappointing. On a sidenote, I can only imagine the nonsense that will will come out whenever the final Westchester redesign plan comes through which is arguably worse in scale than with Suffolk. Me and a few others have been trying gather attention to the route cuts, so hopefully the "entire" microtransit redesign gets dropped in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 20 Share #159 Posted April 20 The problem AFAIC isn't the general concept of microtransit (which is how the pro-microtransit folks construe the criticism) as much as it is microtransit being used by public transit providers to supplant fixed route services.... Let's just call it for what it is - it's done as a passive, gradual way of cutting bus service.... For discussion's sake I guess, I'll just leave this flowchart here from Jarrett Walker's blog for anyone to ponder where the 10B & 10C falls into this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted April 20 Share #160 Posted April 20 7 hours ago, B35 via Church said: The problem AFAIC isn't the general concept of microtransit (which is how the pro-microtransit folks construe the criticism) as much as it is microtransit being used by public transit providers to supplant fixed route services.... Let's just call it for what it is - it's done as a passive, gradual way of cutting bus service.... For discussion's sake I guess, I'll just leave this flowchart here from Jarrett Walker's blog for anyone to ponder where the 10B & 10C falls into this... I'm not sure if I agree with that bolded bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 20 Share #161 Posted April 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lex said: I'm not sure if I agree with that bolded bit. I have no doubt about it..... Otherwise, SCT would've unapologetically cut the 10B/10C outright.... Public transit providers are (mis)using microtransit as a passive means to slowly cut bus service... The concept will be used as the scapegoat as to why to the "East Hampton Zone" & the "Southampton Zone" will end up failing.... It puts the (performance of the) 10B & the 10C off the hook. Not saying you're implicating this, but I still want to make the point.... To sum it up, microtransit is not the answer to a poorly utilized fixed route service... This is the trend (or craze, as BM5 puts it) that these public transit providers are resorting to & to me, at the very least, it's further aiding in giving microtransit a bad rep'... Edited April 20 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TransitMan Posted April 21 Share #162 Posted April 21 23 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said: 10B/10C service will be eliminated on April 28th. That is the same day that the microtransit zone is going to begin. https://sctbus.org/SCT-On-Demand SMH at all this microtransit craze going on that have all these transit agencies going f**king stupid with it. I can maybe get East Hampton (10B area) as a microtransit zone (and don't have issue with the Southampton one which replaced the 10A), but gutting East Hampton to Montauk fixed-route service? That trip takes quite some time to do (to get to someone either traveling within Montauk, or between East Hampton and Montauk). The round trip will add up, there should have been a fixed route between those two points. Complete joke and disappointing. On a sidenote, I can only imagine the nonsense that will will come out whenever the final Westchester redesign plan comes through which is arguably worse in scale than with Suffolk. This will be interesting. However, whenever I see the 10B traveling along Montauk Hwy in Bridgehampton and then the 10C in East Hampton...this East Hampton On-Demand MIGHT suit this area. Unless if ridership has exploded in the last 5 years or so, a few people ride those routes. However, I do agree with one thing...combining the 10B and 10C is a bad idea especially if they are only running at last 2 buses. I would have at least 1 or 2 in the Montauk area and at least 1 or 2 buses in East Hampton. So with 4 mini-buses, they can probably get away with the coverage. That's why I said that this would be interesting. On the lighter side, looks like you can get to the lighthouse more often as oppose to just the summer season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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