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R38/40S go to Museum

mark1447

By mark1447,
in New York City Subway

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Joe C

Joe C

Posted
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Well the NYCT Transit Museum has to display old cars each day so the retire subway cars are not display at the Museum everyday they take turns each day now so you only see them sometimes each week.

 

 

That's not how things are done at the TM.visit the museum right now and

you'll see R32#'s 3352-3353,go back next month and you'll likely see R1#100,

R4#484 and R7A#1575 back in their normal spots at the museum.

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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1. Would be way too expensive and impractical. There's no point.

 

3. I'll let a Transit worker answer that.

 

 

 

NTTs are sets of 4 or 5. I'll also let a Transit worker answer that.

 

Not a transit worker (yet) but I'll give it a shot...

 

Correct on #1, too time consuming/expensive to do with no real worthwhile benefits.

 

#3, all the couplers on cars in service today are hook couplers (H2C heads) with the exception of the R44/R46 couplers. However the R32-R42 married pairs are not "coupled" they have a linkbar between the married cars which is what makes them "married" - that and sharing parts to cut down on operating weight and maintenance. In other words if you have a four car train of R32's the train is coupled CAR1(Linkbar)CAR2(H2C)CAR3(Linkbar)CAR4. 1 and 2 are married, and 3 and 4 are married. What you are basically trying to do is couple Car 1 to Car 4...but that requires shop work... The linkbars are semi permanent which means that it requires shop work to "couple" and "uncouple" the cars (notice the quotes). So going along with our example... 1 must be cut from 2, 3 must be cut from 4, then 1 and 4 have to be added and connected by linkbar. All in the shop.

 

On the NTT's, all the "B" ends (the ends that don't have cabs) also are coupled by linkbars so take what I said above and apply it to the 4/5 car sets. The whole thing with the linkbars is why you'll hear the 4 or 5 car sets referred to as "Semi Permanent 4/5 car sets"

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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But if they are going to run the fan trips and nostalgia with the R-44 and R-46...

 

They aren't...those cars aren't even retired yet. When they retire, that will be an issue for those in charge of the Transit Museum and the Curatorial staff over which cars are preserved, and how they will run. However, as currently configured, it is not possible to do. And they are not going to spend time and money reconfiguing a perfectly good 10 car train that can run R40-R40-R40M-R40M-R32-R32-R38-R38-R42-R42 to run R40-R40M-R32-R38-R42-R42-R38-R32-R40M-R40 just because some railfans somewhere in the unverse think basically "it would look cooler that way"

 

Hey just stating facts...

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7LineFan

7LineFan

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But if they are going to run the fan trips and nostalgia with the R-44 and R-46, they must do it... It would have no reason for them to leave these two alone... LOLz, even if it is time consuming and waste of money... I disagree with 7LineFan and SubwayGuy, except with the NTT thing...

 

They CANNOT and WILL NOT do it. If they run fan trips and nostalgia with the R44 and R46 they could have a full train of each. But they're NOT going to cut up the cars and rebuild the couplings and put them together all hodgepodge like. It's NOT gonna happen, ESPECIALLY because it is time consuming and a waste of money, and it actually DOESN'T preserve the cars in their current or previous running state which is what the Museum is for.

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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And SubwayGuy/7LineFan... Nothing has to be perfect and that configuration is too perfect... And full trains of each set are not really possible due to the reading of MTA's history of nostalgia/fan trips... Some cars are not compatible but I feel the MTA will change the coupling! So read the history, don't attack me!

 

History dictates that the museum preserves cars more or less in the state in which they operated. The R44/R46 are not compatible with the other cars for a number of reasons. Again you have to draw the line between what you want to see and what is actually possible given all of the considerations of a museum operating on a fixed budget and trying to appeal to all kinds of visitors not just railfans. The R44/R46 will never have to run with R32-R42 cars as you seem to want it to, because 10 cars will be preserved from R32-R42 and there's your nostalgia train right there. I never said the R44/R46 will be preserved as full length trains because frankly I have no idea, and if you were to ask those in charge over at the museum, they would have no idea either because those cars are 1) still in service 2) do not have a SPECIFIC timetable for retirement yet and 3) have not had any cars slated for preservation yet. Maybe a 4 car set of each will be saved. Maybe a 4 car set of R44's and an AA pair of R46's. Maybe NONE. Whatever happens is anyone's guess, but whatever it is will still be subject to the same mechanical restrictions of the equipment as anything else, that's why you'll never see a nostalgia train of Lo-V's and redbirds running together (different brake schedules), and that's why I posted what I did, because someone posted something about working those cars in with the R32-R42 cars. THAT, you can bet your house on, won't happen. as for "disagreeing with me" and 7linefan about all that hey I don't care, you can think what you want, I just make my posts take em or leave em...

 

As for the configuration being too perfect, I don't know what you mean, but I do know from specific conversations I've had with people in the know (read: NOT railfans) about those R32-R42 cars and that is EXACTLY the idea. If it sounds simple to run a train like that it's because it is...the museum will have to spruce those cars up and make sure everything is in working order but there won't be anything more than that going on, which makes it fast and easy...saving time and money which with the economy and budget being what it is should be apparent why they'd want that.

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7LineFan

7LineFan

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And SubwayGuy/7LineFan... Nothing has to be perfect and that configuration is too perfect... And full trains of each set are not really possible due to the reading of MTA's history of nostalgia/fan trips... Some cars are not compatible but I feel the MTA will change the coupling! So read the history, don't attack me!

 

Dude, Subwayguy's right. The R44 and R46 are historically incompatible with all other car classes and with each other. So it would make more sense to keep that historical division in the museum fleet and just have the ten car R32-R42 train.

 

Well, we'll wait and see... I am sure the R-44/R-46 will eventually be connected... Even if it costs money, 'ka-ching'...

 

If it costs more money to change the couplings it's really not practical. Don't get your hopes up.

 

Oh, and we're not attacking you. We're attacking your far-fetched idea.

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MTR Admiralty

MTR Admiralty

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Dude, Subwayguy's right. The R44 and R46 are historically incompatible with all other car classes and with each other. So it would make more sense to keep that historical division in the museum fleet and just have the ten car R32-R42 train.

 

 

 

If it costs more money to change the couplings it's really not practical. Don't get your hopes up.

 

Oh, and we're not attacking you. We're attacking your far-fetched idea.

 

Even the dimensions are not right... you have 60 foot cars and then 75 foot cars???

How about this... when they retire in the next decades, the TA could run 4 R44s and 4 R46s together. I'm not quite sure how that would work out, though.

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7LineFan

7LineFan

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How about this... when they retire in the next decades, the TA could run 4 R44s and 4 R46s together. I'm not quite sure how that would work out, though.

 

Supposedly even that wouldn't work. I hear that because of different braking systems the R44 and R46 are not compatible. And Transit isn't going to change the braking systems simply to attach one set of cars to the other. They're almost aesthetically identical so I see no point of attaching both together. Keep them separate for them to retain their identities.

 

Although that might be easier than cutting link bars (bear in mind that those are R142 link bars, but the principle should be the same).

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MTR Admiralty

MTR Admiralty

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Supposedly even that wouldn't work. I hear that because of different braking systems the R44 and R46 are not compatible. And Transit isn't going to change the braking systems simply to attach one set of cars to the other. They're almost aesthetically identical so I see no point of attaching both together. Keep them separate for them to retain their identities.

 

Although that would be easier than cutting link bars.

 

Oh right! Yeah... Really, I wonder how the TA is going to maintain them.

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7LineFan

7LineFan

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Oh right! Yeah... Really, I wonder how the TA is going to maintain them.

 

Yeah. Preserving sets is harder than preserving single units or even married pairs, because you need to have space for all 4 or 5 cars. But let's leave that question to the near future, shall we?

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Paul P

Paul P

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Supposedly even that wouldn't work. I hear that because of different braking systems the R44 and R46 are not compatible. And Transit isn't going to change the braking systems simply to attach one set of cars to the other. They're almost aesthetically identical so I see no point of attaching both together. Keep them separate for them to retain their identities.

 

Although that might be easier than cutting link bars (bear in mind that those are R142 link bars, but the principle should be the same).

 

I think you mean R46s brakes would release normally, but R44s would psssstttt

:D:D

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mark1447

mark1447

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SURPRISINGLY, R46 uses New York Air Brake "SMEE" Braking System, Tread Brake Unit Model D7587719 (from wiki)

R44 uses Westcode (and WABCO). Again, from wiki.

 

u guys still like wiki LOL

 

I was wondering if the MTA preserved any cars that were not GOHed?

 

Like the orginal R32, R44 and slants?

 

Cuz I see in the museum the R33 WF has the original style, but then again MTA repainted it

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MTR Admiralty

MTR Admiralty

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u guys still like wiki LOL

 

I was wondering if the MTA preserved any cars that were not GOHed?

 

Like the orginal R32, R44 and slants?

 

Cuz I see in the museum the R33 WF has the original style, but then again MTA repainted it

 

Wiki is known to be unreliable and sometimes foamers run amok putting stuff that is not true. Until I could confirm though, it does seem R46 runs on SMEE brakes.

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7LineFan

7LineFan

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u guys still like wiki LOL

 

I was wondering if the MTA preserved any cars that were not GOHed?

 

Like the orginal R32, R44 and slants?

 

Cuz I see in the museum the R33 WF has the original style, but then again MTA repainted it

 

Nope. 9306 is the only pre-GOH car from R32 and up. Everything else in that category is post-GOH because they rebuilt every single car.

 

Has 9306 been in the Museum since 1976? Was it removed from service early?

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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SURPRISINGLY, R46 uses New York Air Brake "SMEE" Braking System, Tread Brake Unit Model D7587719 (from wiki)

R44 uses Westcode (and WABCO). Again, from wiki.

 

It has to do with the brake pressures. R44 brakes charge to different brake pressures than all other brakes in the system, including the R46 (IIRC it's 130/110 instead of the standard 110/80). As built, they had P-wire brakes, but both are equipped as SMEE today though.

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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Nope. 9306 is the only pre-GOH car from R32 and up. Everything else in that category is post-GOH because they rebuilt every single car.

 

Has 9306 been in the Museum since 1976? Was it removed from service early?

 

I don't remember the specifics of the car's history but it has never been overhauled. There is a plaque next to the car in the museum that will answer all of your other questions. It still contains the original propulsion, compressors, and axiflow fans.

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