Hello North Shore Railway = Goodbye To Some Buses

[Anthony Brancato]

Ever wonder why the $1 coin in its various modern re-incarnations - from the Eisenhower Dollar to the Susan B. Anthony Dollar to the more recent Sacagewea and Presidential Dollars - has been such a colossal failure?

 

Because the $1 bill was not concomitantly abolished - that's why.

 

Canada was smarter: When they introduced their "Loonie" in 1987, they did get rid of their $1 bill - and not only has their dollar coin been a rousing success, but the Canadians have recently added a $2 coin - instantly dubbed the "Twonie" - as well.

 

But how can this possibly be on topic, you ask?

 

Because a similar pitfall would await any reactivated North Shore Railway, unless the current nearby bus lines - which in some places run mere feet from the tracks - are re-routed, and, in one case, entirely eliminated, if the most plausible plan, outlined below, is implemented:

 

S40: Abolished altogether, with the portion of its route west of Port Richmond picked up by the S46 (see below).

 

S46: Keeps its current route between the St. George Ferry Terminal and Castleton and Nicholas Avenues - whereupon it proceeds north on Nicholas to Richmond Terrace, west on Richmond Terrace to South Avenue, then turns onto South Avenue to resume its present route (not only to provide service to Richmond Terrace in Mariners Harbor to cover the loss of the S40, but also to get the S46 off Walker Street, where the North Shore tracks can be found a mere block away). On return trips to St. George, it makes both the Grandview Ave/Brabant St and Arlington Pl/Holland Ave loops currently made by the S48. A connection to the S62 via Meredith Avenue (from whose West Shore Expressway overpass affords a superb view of the little-known West Shore branch of the railway) is also desirable.

 

S48: No longer turns onto South Avenue from Forest Avenue, but rather continues along Forest Avenue to Western Avenue (again, to replace the S40). Can terminate at the Port Ivory/Howland Hook station of the North Shore Railway, which was decommissioned a few years before the entire line was taken out of (passenger) service in 1953.

 

In addition to "forcing" people to use the trains, the abolition of the S40 would serve to defray a significant portion of the cost of operating the railway.

 

And let's not forget to mention that the short-lived Ball Park spur (kept intact even though now no longer used) affords an opportunity for through service between Howland Hook and Tottenville, which never existed during the North Shore line's original incarnation.

[LRG]

The way I see it, bus service would probably be kept, like the S40, since it would parallel the North Shore Line's route for a good while. If anything, overnight service would be canned.

[MikeGerald]

It's very simple - will my very simple direct route from St. George to Home Depot, and the Regal Movie Theatre be interrupted by this change?

 

Right now it is a simple speedy trip that is direct from my home in St. George to both of those places, basically from almost one end of the line to the other. Once upon catching the #40 bus, I do not have to transfer to another bus or train, or suffer attempting to connect to another line. Traveling on weekends and nights on Staten Island can be difficult, and transferring from one bus to another can easily turn into a 30-minute wait between buses. So I really like the #40 bus in this regard - it is completely hassle free - and that's saying a lot on Staten Island - it does not happen often.

 

Waiting for the bus is not really a big deal since on the St. George end it is tied to the ferry terminal schedule, where knowing that I can predict when the bus will arrive. The return trip is even easier. Plus there's other shopping in nearby walking distance.

 

So how will your idea improve upon something that already works well?

Mike

[Nexis4Jersey]

And , so your going to run to services next to each other.....that is not how it works in the Transit world. You integrate one system into the other......they do that in every city that has a new light rail line. Seattle , Portland , Jersey City , Baltimore all move there buses around to enhance the light rail....

[Roadcruiser1]

Here is what the future light rail system on Staten Island might look like on two maps. Also everyone is correct buses usually comes first before light rail. Anyway these Hudson Bergen Light Rail extensions are real, and proposed.

[EE Broadway Local]

This is the SIR North Shore Line Port Richmond Station as seen from Park Avenue today in 2010:

[East New York]

And , so your going to run to services next to each other.....that is not how it works in the Transit world. You integrate one system into the other......they do that in every city that has a new light rail line. Seattle , Portland , Jersey City , Baltimore all move there buses around to enhance the light rail....

 

I don't know about the light rail thing, but here in NYC most subway lines are paralleled buy bus routes.

[MikeGerald]

Plenty of times even in NYC, bus riders and subway riders - in the places where bus and subways are parallel to each other, say the A and C trains along Fulton Street, and the B25 bus along Fulton Street - use the buses and subways in different ways.

 

For example, the buses would often be used by shoppers from the Fulton Mall going home or school children getting to and from home - while the subways would often be used by those heading to or from Manhattan, or traveling longer distances to Queens. Plenty of times, the buses have closer or more convenient bus stops compared to the subway stations - which is a great concern to many of the elderly riders.

 

In addition it should be noted that the buses are more accommodating of the handicapped than the subways are - something that is often neglected. Both type of vehicles have their roles to play in getting folks from point A to B.

 

Mike

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't know about the light rail thing, but here in NYC most subway lines are paralleled buy bus routes.

 

Plenty of times even in NYC, bus riders and subway riders - in the places where bus and subways are parallel to each other, say the A and C trains along Fulton Street, and the B25 bus along Fulton Street - use the buses and subways in different ways.

 

For example, the buses would often be used by shoppers from the Fulton Mall going home or school children getting to and from home - while the subways would often be used by those heading to or from Manhattan, or traveling longer distances to Queens. Plenty of times, the buses have closer or more convenient bus stops compared to the subway stations - which is a great concern to many of the elderly riders.

 

In addition it should be noted that the buses are more accommodating of the handicapped than the subways are - something that is often neglected. Both type of vehicles have their roles to play in getting folks from point A to B.

 

Mike

 

Exactly. There are plenty of routes in NYC that either run directly over/under a rail line, or a few blocks away. The good thing about NYC is that there are enough people to support both services-a bus line for people making short trips and a train line for people making longer trips.

 

You could even make the argument that, at the other end of Staten Island, the SIR parallels the S51 and S76 for about a mile and half (between St. George and Clifton), and it also parallels the S74/S76 and S78/S79 from Grasmere to New Dorp.

[Roadcruiser1]

It also allows people to transfer from bus to rail if they need to.

[MikeGerald]

There are no bus lines in NYC that parallel a subway line from one end of the route, ALL of the way to the other end of the route.

 

Mike

[Tokkemon]

Ever wonder why the $1 coin in its various modern re-incarnations - from the Eisenhower Dollar to the Susan B. Anthony Dollar to the more recent Sacagewea and Presidential Dollars - has been such a colossal failure?

 

Because the $1 bill was not concomitantly abolished - that's why.

 

Canada was smarter: When they introduced their "Loonie" in 1987, they did get rid of their $1 bill - and not only has their dollar coin been a rousing success, but the Canadians have recently added a $2 coin - instantly dubbed the "Twonie" - as well.

 

Some corrections:

 

The Toonie is hardly new. Its been around for 12 years now. It's awesome.

 

The $1 coin in the US has hardly been a colossal failure; it simplified a lot of change-giving machines, for example, like the Metrocard Vending Machines. However, it has been less used than expected for the reasons you mentioned. But the Canadian in me so much prefers the dollar coins than the dollar bills its ridiculous.

[SIR North Shore]

The S40 made me miss an important meeting at work today! Got to the bus stop at 12:25pm, S40 supposed to show up at 12:41pm but it didn't show up until 12:50pm and totally missed the ferry. But on my way home, I caught the S90 and I was home in 12 minutes!

 

 

What they need to do, is scrap plans for rebuilding the North Shore Line because it isn't happening and follow this plan:

-Have two S90 buses running back and forth to meet every ferry until night hours and thus problems solved and a lot of money is saved!

 

-The money that would be used to place down a couple of signals and pantographs on the light rail line could be used for Traffic Signal prioritization on the entire length Richmond Terrace just like on Victory Blvd.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I knew you were just itching to pull out those light rail maps of yours... lol

[Nexis4Jersey]

I don't know about the light rail thing, but here in NYC most subway lines are paralleled buy bus routes.

 

Outside of NYC and im sure on SI lines do not run parallel to light rail its counter productive...

[LRG]

There are no bus lines in NYC that parallel a subway line from one end of the route, ALL of the way to the other end of the route.

 

Mike

 

What about the M42?

[MikeGerald]

I hate to get picky about this point, but many transit lines, even in NYC can not be paralleled by bus routes, because the transit line does not run under the streets. Just two among a few examples in NYC - the N-train in Brooklyn, the #5 Dyre Avenue segment, and there are a few others.

 

On some streets where there is both a bus and a subway that seem to parallel each other for a distance - it is typical that the bus route does not run at all hours, while the subway line does.

 

This topic always comes up when folks talk about closing the subways during the midnight hours, and using bus service to take up the slack. The majority of bus routes only operate within their borough.

 

Light rail does not exist in NYC nor on Staten Island. There is no way right now for regular people to use such a system.

 

Mike

[checkmatechamp13]

Outside of NYC and im sure on SI lines do not run parallel to light rail its counter productive...

 

The SIR has several parts where bus routes run only a few blocks away. Between St. George and Clifton, the S51 and S76 run along Bay Street. Between Grasmere and Clifton, the S74/S76 and S78/S79 are only a few blocks away.

 

What about the M42?

 

The doesn't go west of 7th Avenue, whereas the M42 does.

 

I hate to get picky about this point, but many transit lines, even in NYC can not be paralleled by bus routes, because the transit line does not run under the streets. Just two among a few examples in NYC - the N-train in Brooklyn, the #5 Dyre Avenue segment, and there are a few others.

 

On some streets where there is both a bus and a subway that seem to parallel each other for a distance - it is typical that the bus route does not run at all hours, while the subway line does.

 

This topic always comes up when folks talk about closing the subways during the midnight hours, and using bus service to take up the slack. The majority of bus routes only operate within their borough.

 

Light rail does not exist in NYC nor on Staten Island. There is no way right now for regular people to use such a system.

 

Mike

 

Generally, most subway lines are paralleled by bus routes for a good portion of their length. However, there is no subway line that is paralleled end-to-end by a bus line (except for the Franklin Avenue Shuttle, which was paralleled by the B48 before it was cut back to Fulton Street, and the 42nd Street Shuttle, which is currently paralleled by the M42)

 

What usually happens is that different bus routes parallel different portions of the route. For example, the is paralleled by the B25 along Fulton Street and the B14 along Sutter Avenue, and the is paralleled by those two lines, as well as the Q7 and Q112 east of Euclid Avenue.

 

If the bus system were left as it is, you would have a similar situation-the S40 would parallel the SIR from St. George to Port Richmond, while the S46 would parallel it from Elm Park to Arlington.

 

By the way, the doesn't have a bus line right under it, but it does have a bus line a few blocks away-the B9.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Here is what the future light rail system on Staten Island might look like on two maps. Also everyone is correct buses usually comes first before light rail. Anyway these Hudson Bergen Light Rail extensions are real, and proposed.

 

HBLR should be extended to Bergen County before it's extended to Staten Island. It's not called Hudson-Bergen Light Rail for nothing.

 

Staten Island, on the other hand, is part of New York City. Therefore, it should have more and better connections to the rest of the city. The North Shore line should be brought back as a heavy-rail line so that one common fleet of railcars can serve both lines and so that they can eventually be extended into Brooklyn and/or Manhattan. Yes, I am in favor of extending the subway to Staten Island.

[qjtransitmaster]

The S40 made me miss an important meeting at work today! Got to the bus stop at 12:25pm, S40 supposed to show up at 12:41pm but it didn't show up until 12:50pm and totally missed the ferry. But on my way home, I caught the S90 and I was home in 12 minutes!

 

 

What they need to do, is scrap plans for rebuilding the North Shore Line because it isn't happening and follow this plan:

-Have two S90 buses running back and forth to meet every ferry until night hours and thus problems solved and a lot of money is saved!

 

-The money that would be used to place down a couple of signals and pantographs on the light rail line could be used for Traffic Signal prioritization on the entire length Richmond Terrace just like on Victory Blvd.

Then Can the S40 or reduce it's service to every 30 or 40 minutes seriously walk to the LTD stop. Or restore the North branch to NJ from SI and enhance the S89. They can replace S40 with S54 and 57 extentions.

[LRG]

Then Can the S40 or reduce it's service to every 30 or 40 minutes seriously walk to the LTD stop. Or restore the North branch to NJ from SI and enhance the S89. They can replace S40 with S54 and 57 extentions.

 

Not bad ideas, especially the S54/S57 ideas. The only problem is that the S54 runs on weekdays only; however, they could have the S54 run only between Seaview Hospital and whatever portion of the S40 it would replace on weekends.

 

S54: Operates between Saint George Ferry Terminal and Eltingville - Richmond Avenue/Hylan Boulevard (weekdays) or Seaview Hospital (weekends); operates along its normal route between Eltingville and Clove Road/Castleton Avenue, then it replaces the S40 between Clove/Castleton and Saint George (I am still debating if the S54 should replace the S42 route in its entirety, with Richmond Terrace service between Lafayette Avenue and the terminal being replaced by the S44 route, but I'm not certain yet).

 

S57: Operates between Arlington and New Dorp, replacing the S40 between South Avenue/Richmond Terrace (uses the S48's terminal at Holland Avenue) and New Dorp.

 

S48: Rerouted from its Arlington terminal (replaced by S57) to the S40s Howland Hook terminal.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[checkmatechamp13]

I just think the S40 should be split with the eastern portion being covered by the S59 and the western portion being covered by the S53. The S54 and S57 are just too infrequent to be the main Richmond Terrace routes.

 

The pattern would be as follows:

 

Rush hours (peak direction):

The S53 and S83 would run on 12 minute headways each, with the S53 terminating at South Avenue/Arlington Place and the S83 making all S90 stops to Goethals Road North.

The S59 would run every 15 minutes along Richmond Terrace, with S57 running as a limited-stop route along Richmond Terrace every 15 minutes (service south of Seaview Hospital would continue to run every 30 minutes)

 

Middays, evenings, and rush hour reverse peak:

The S59 would run on 15 minute headways to St. George

The S83 would run every 20 minutes, and the S53 would run every 10 minutes. All S83s would terminate at Goethals Road North, and every other S53 would be extended from Port Richmond to South Avenue/Arlington Place.

 

Weekends:

S53 runs every 10 minutes east of Port Richmond and 20 minutes west of Port Richmond (no S83 service)

S59 runs every 15 minutes

 

Overnight:

S53 runs every 40 minutes from Bay Ridge to Goethals Road North

S59 runs every 60 minutes to St. George

 

NOTE: The S59 and S89 would switch southern terminals so reliability wouldn't be an issue on the S59.

 

One way or another, the S54 should go to the ferry. Whether it is via the S42 route or as a supplementary route (to the S59) along Richmond Terrace is hard to say.