Sometimes farebeating is OK, says City Councilman Robert Jackson

[checkmatechamp13]

What I really want to know is why you guys seem to side with the MTA for this subway situation but most people seem to not side with MTA when this happens with SBS.

 

 

Or when the bus is too crowded to enter through the front, sometimes people enter through the back so they don't have to wait for the next bus. It looks like people side with the rider in cases like this (though the problem isn't with the farebox, it's with the crowding conditions)

 

Come to think about it, if the farebox says "Read Error", people always side with the rider, even though technically, you're supposed to pay the fare and apply for a refund (though of course, nobody does that, and rightfully so)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@Brooklyn IRT: If the farebox says "Read Error" then what am I supposed to do? I mean I'm not breaking out a new Metrocard for that. Usually the B/O will make you dip 3 times and then they'll just say to have a seat or whatever, but unless it is clear that it is my Metrocard, I am not starting a new one. It takes entirely too long to get refunded for faulty Metrocards, so I've started reporting them lost. I get a refund on my Amex in like two days as opposed to two months or more. I have a Metrocard that I mailed in at least a month ago and I am still waiting for a refund. Amex credit me monies back because I made a stink but that was credited to me from Amex, not from the so I sent it in and am awaiting my refund. What I never understood is this ridiculous practice that the has with Unlimited Metrocards. If you have a Pay-Per-Ride, you can get a new card at any token booth and they'll just transfer the monies onto a new card. Not so with an Unlimited card though. You have to mail it in and they get to sit and take their time giving you a refund and then when you get one you're usually jipped at least one day if not two, and they send you ridiculous check amounts, but not one check... Sometimes multiple checks for small amounts. I thought they started something online for Metrocards so I checked and was told that I still have to mail mine in the old way. Talk about a hassle and being behind in the 21st century.

[Tokkemon]

OMG, lets all jump on Amex because they're the bestest thing ever!!!

[Jamaica Line]

Speaking of turnstiles, the newly renovated Av J stop on the Brighton has a row of them and no booth there. What's to stop people from just hopping/ducking under them to skip paying the fare? I would've thought they should've built HEETs there.

 

 

That's the thing... In "safe" neighborhoods there are some stations with turnstiles that are not just where the booth is. Thumbs up to the MTA for giving me a free ride very now 'n then...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

OMG, lets all jump on Amex because they're the bestest thing ever!!!

 

 

Hey listen for the $450.00 yearly membership that I have with them and the thousands of dollars I charge on that card yearly, they'd better take care of me. They just refunded me for a $80.00 ticket that I got slapped with back when I moved. Whatever I ask for they generally comply with. B) Amex only selects those with the "bestest" of credit (minimum 700s), so you can't all jump on Amex... Back to topic... I am glad that I get unlimited cards now because the chances of me getting ripped off is difficult now.

[Grand Concourse]

Yeah I've had problems with the metrocard before. With both a pay per ride and unlimited card, the bus's farebox still has a read error where after the 3rd try, the b/o just waived me in. Other times the box would take an additional fare instead of a transfer and I have to mail the card in for my refund. It's just so frustrating at times with the damn cards. Obviously it'd be easier to just use unlimited cards, but I don't ride as frequently and wouldn't be able to make the most of it.

 

Public transportation should be free if you ask me. That should solve the farebeating issue.

 

I hope that was sarcasm...

Where do you think the MTA would look to to recover the operating costs? Answer: higher taxes, as if the current rate wasn't high enough.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah I've had problems with the metrocard before. With both a pay per ride and unlimited card, the bus's farebox still has a read error where after the 3rd try, the b/o just waived me in. Other times the box would take an additional fare instead of a transfer and I have to mail the card in for my refund. It's just so frustrating at times with the damn cards. Obviously it'd be easier to just use unlimited cards, but I don't ride as frequently and wouldn't be able to make the most of it.

 

 

I still remember years ago using a pay-per-ride when I was working at this summer camp as a camp counselor (my first job when I was in high school). The job didn't pay much of course being 15 and all so I get on the B36 to head over to the camp one morning and the damn farebox charged me twice. I was pissed. Often times when the farebox takes the extra fare, you don't get it back. It's funny though because that may have been one of the last times I used a pay-per-ride as my primary Metrocard. The following two summers I worked with the so I didn't have to pay anything except on the weekends and then after that I started using regular unlimited Metrocards exclusively.

[B35 via Church]

It seems to me that you guys are siding with the MTA while criticizing Jackson for this situation that occurred in subway land, but whenever this happens in SBS land everybody is very critical of the MTA while sympathizing with the SBS riders that intended on paying.

 

More bad logic. Total False Dilemma here.....

 

Chastising this guy for saying farebeating is ok, does not mean we are somehow "siding" w/ the MTA.... What are you talking about ??

 

 

 

I am just curious as to how you guys reason this one out. You say things like "the broken MVM/turnstile/whatever is no excuse for fare beating" and you seem to be heavily opposed to Jackson's opinion on the matter, but if you guys are so opposed to this and seem to think it is better to do the right thing (in subway land) as I described above, then does that mean you also think it is better for me to do the right thing (in SBS land) as I described above, than it is for me to get to a SBS stop, see that the machines are not working, board the bus, and take the bus wherever I am going?

 

What's to reason out?

 

If you're at the mercy of malfunctioned MVM's, that doesn't give you free reign to farebeat....

 

I am not sure why you resorted to go on the way you did about SBS; I mean really, what does the intended mode of travel have to do with doing the right thing..... Also not sure who's hypocrisy you tried to call out, but I wish you would have done that, instead of insinuating what anyone of us might be more apt to agreeing with & doing on SBS's (farebeating) - b/c you're not in agreement w/ our opinion/viewpoint of what this councilman said & did.... The parallel you're drawing (and the baselessness of it) I'm having a problem with.....

 

To comment on that little scenario of yours though, YOU can do what you want in that scenario.... if you think it's permissable to farebeat due to a malfunctioned MVM or w/e, go head & do you.... Me, I would simply opt to taking the local... SBS isn't that important to me, to where I feel like I have to risk paying some fine just to save a couple minutes over the local.....

[BrooklynIRT]

I was not trying to call anybody out or point out any hypocrisy. Alright, so you guys were not siding with the MTA in this situation. No problem. Forget I said that.

 

Anyway, it is not always the case that taking SBS saves just a couple of minutes. In most situations, with the routes currently in operation, this is the case. Not in every situation though.

 

It just bothers me that even in situations where SBS is effective, its use is discouraged by the broken ticket machines and inconvenience that comes with them, which cancels out the time savings even if the savings are significant.

 

The same thing applies to the subway. If somebody wants to get someplace (or more importantly, needs to get someplace) quickly or by a certain time, then this is a problem with the subway and with SBS (in situations where it actually is effective) because more time gets added to the person's commute, whether they instead use parallel local/limited bus line(s) or choose to stick with the subway or SBS (again, in situations where it saves at least 10 minutes over the local) and either walk to the other entrance or get off at the next stop and pay there. This makes people more averse to using the system. The fact that these problems make people more averse to using the system is what bothers me the most.

 

If one does not have to be somewhere by a certain time, then taking a local/limited bus or walking to the other entrance is at worst an inconvenience. It might make somebody more averse to using the system, but it is still not as bad as it is for somebody who needs to be somewhere by a certain time.

 

The main reason why I drew a parallel is that I think that the councilman is actually partially correct in his stance on this issue, especially when it comes to situations where one has to be somewhere by a certain time. In this case it was not specifically stated whether the councilman's wife had to be somewhere by a certain time, and maybe neither he nor his wife were even thinking about this when he made his statement about farebeating, but he raised a point that does have some validity.

 

He would have been preaching to the choir if he had decided to bring up this problem with faulty machinery with respect to SBS. I guess my point is that I wish somebody would step up and do something about this problem in general, but it would help if somebody had placed more of an emphasis on the problems with the SBS machines, because those problems have been much more widespread (and more severe due to the presence of fare inspectors who give out summonses even to those who wanted to pay but could not due to fault machinery) than the problems with MVMs and turnstiles.

 

Yes, it is true that if somebody has to be somewhere by a certain time they have to leave earlier so that they do not get jammed up by such problems and can either use a local/limited bus or walk all the way to their destination or walk to the other entrance (and account for the time spent waiting for the next train if they miss one), but this just brings us right back to situations that make people more averse to using the system. And all in all, deterring people from transit inhibits socioeconomic growth.

 

And of course the MTA spokesman complains about how this deprives MTA of the money it needs to make service. How about doing something about these problems so that people are not permanently deterred from using transit, which, in the long run, will probably hurt MTA more than it will if people who cannot swipe due to faulty machinery hop the gate when the machinery is faulty? Or how about at least admitting this was MTA's screw-up? And of course they can forget about getting more people to use buses if the ticket machines are broken and people realize that they can expect to be summonsed to court if they even bother stepping on a SBS bus, even if they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery.

 

I usually side with MTA because of politicians and Albany not funding it properly (although people have stated that the MTA is no innocent victim), but this is one of those things that has me asking myself, WTF. Why would they not do anything about this or at least admit to their screw-up and have the audacity to cry foul about "farebeating" when it is done by those who intended to swipe but could not due to faulty machinery? Are they trying to lose riders and eventually implode?

 

Last two paragraphs are directed at MTA and that spokesman, not you (B35) or anybody else who expressed their opinion in this thread by the way.

[Joe]

City savagery is well-represented in city council.

[INDman]

City savagery is well-represented in city council.

 

I thought it was the only thing represented by the City Council...

[B35 via Church]

Public transportation should be free if you ask me. That should solve the farebeating issue.

It doesn't solve it... It's a remedy that just ignores it.

 

Same logic that's being applied when you hear people talking about "let's legalize drugs" b/c the so-called war on drugs is unwinnable...

 

 

 

Or when the bus is too crowded to enter through the front, sometimes people enter through the back so they don't have to wait for the next bus. It looks like people side with the rider in cases like this (though the problem isn't with the farebox, it's with the crowding conditions)

 

Come to think about it, if the farebox says "Read Error", people always side with the rider, even though technically, you're supposed to pay the fare and apply for a refund (though of course, nobody does that, and rightfully so)

1- You're right, some do.... I'm even willing to say a hell of a lot of people do.....

I, however, personally don't side with anyone farebeating because the bus is too crowded (to board in the front)....

 

You're not allowed to sneak in the back door because the lines to some venue is too long; speaking of things no one would actually co-sign.... I'd pay (pun unintended) to see what would happen to someone that tried that @ Yankee Stadium & used that as an excuse !

 

2- Don't get what you're saying here.... If you tried paying the fare & the farebox is spittin out a read error, how do you pay the fare ?

Better yet, how do you expect to get away with obtaining a refund for something that never happened ?

 

 

@Brooklyn IRT: If the farebox says "Read Error" then what am I supposed to do? I mean I'm not breaking out a new Metrocard for that. Usually the B/O will make you dip 3 times and then they'll just say to have a seat or whatever, but unless it is clear that it is my Metrocard, I am not starting a new one. It takes entirely too long to get refunded for faulty Metrocards, so I've started reporting them lost.

Not worry about it, that's what you do... lol....

 

Simply put... If the b/o waves you on the bus due to a faulty farebox, then it's not farebeating.....

It's no different than a police officer waving traffic through a red light (for whatever the reason).....

 

 

He would have been preaching to the choir if he had decided to bring up this problem with faulty machinery with respect to SBS. I guess my point is that I wish somebody would step up and do something about this problem in general, but it would help if somebody had placed more of an emphasis on the problems with the SBS machines, because those problems have been much more widespread (and more severe due to the presence of fare inspectors who give out summonses even to those who wanted to pay but could not due to fault machinery) than the problems with MVMs and turnstiles.

 

I'd stop to think every fare-paying rider wish MVM's were 100% efficient - again, regardless of the intended mode of travel.....

 

But from what I'm getting from your last 2 posts, seems to me you're more miffed that the problem w/ faulty MVM's weren't pointed out on the bus (SBS) side of things - As opposed to this councilman advocating a crime......

 

at that point, who cares if he was trying to board a SBS bus or the subway (where the MVM wasn't operable).... It's like you're giving him a pass because he pointed out the problem of faulty MVM's.... That alone doesn't eliminate the unlawful message he's putting out to the public.....

[7LineFan]

I don't think someone leaving early specifically to counteract problems like these would be too deterred from taking the system over and over again.

[checkmatechamp13]

1- You're right, some do.... I'm even willing to say a hell of a lot of people do.....

I, however, personally don't side with anyone farebeating because the bus is too crowded (to board in the front)....

 

You're not allowed to sneak in the back door because the lines to some venue is too long; speaking of things no one would actually co-sign.... I'd pay (pun unintended) to see what would happen to someone that tried that @ Yankee Stadium & used that as an excuse !

 

2- Don't get what you're saying here.... If you tried paying the fare & the farebox is spittin out a read error, how do you pay the fare ?

Better yet, how do you expect to get away with obtaining a refund for something that never happened ?

 

 

1) Yeah, except the difference is that you're not going to miss the game if you get stuck at a long line. If you can't get in through the back, you'll miss your bus, and there's no guarantee you'll be able to get on the next bus either.

 

Come to think about it, I wasn't even referring to instances where there's a long line to get on the bus. I was referring to instances where you physically can't get in through the front.

 

I mean, sometimes the B/O encourages it. I remember once, I was walking along the S46 route because I didn't want to risk waiting for it, and when I reach the stop I would've gotten off at, there was a guy dressed in a business suit. He made a motion to walk towards the front door with a MetroCard in hand, and the B/O just opened up the back door (He probably used the same button that they use when a wheelchair person comes on and they want to keep the door open). Anyway, the guy knew that the B/O was letting him in, but just not through the front. So it's the basically same thing as the B/O waving you on. Whether he expected the man to pay at the next stop (which was a school, so all the kids would get off), I don't know, but I doubt the B/O cared. I mean, he did kind of stand out (TBH, an Asian man in a business suit is not somone you'll find often on the S46), but still.

 

2) You could pay with coins.

[Grand Concourse]

There was one time years ago on the M86 the b/o waived me in via the back of the bus because the front of the bus was full. I did show him I had a student MC. So I guess in that instance it didn't matter since for me I was heading home anyway and it was a transfer as I got off the at CPW. That to date was the only time I was ever waived in via the back for a regular bus line (not counting the shuttle or the SBS lines).

[B35 via Church]

1) Yeah, except the difference is that you're not going to miss the game if you get stuck at a long line. If you can't get in through the back, you'll miss your bus, and there's no guarantee you'll be able to get on the next bus either.

 

Come to think about it, I wasn't even referring to instances where there's a long line to get on the bus. I was referring to instances where you physically can't get in through the front.

 

I mean, sometimes the B/O encourages it. I remember once, I was walking along the S46 route because I didn't want to risk waiting for it, and when I reach the stop I would've gotten off at, there was a guy dressed in a business suit. He made a motion to walk towards the front door with a MetroCard in hand, and the B/O just opened up the back door (He probably used the same button that they use when a wheelchair person comes on and they want to keep the door open). Anyway, the guy knew that the B/O was letting him in, but just not through the front. So it's the basically same thing as the B/O waving you on. Whether he expected the man to pay at the next stop (which was a school, so all the kids would get off), I don't know, but I doubt the B/O cared. I mean, he did kind of stand out (TBH, an Asian man in a business suit is not somone you'll find often on the S46), but still.

 

2) You could pay with coins.

 

 

1) Doesn't matter if you won't miss the game due to the long lines... A crime is a crime....

 

Also doesn't matter whether you were referring to long lines or buses already having arrived at a particular stop where waiting pax cannot board through the front.... don't care for this picture you're trying to paint to reinforce your stance either; makin it sound like the only last ditch method a person has to boarding any crowded bus along a route is by farebeating.....

 

Regardless of intent, you are not going to sway & soft soak me with the excuse of not being able to get on successive buses that might also be crowded - as a reason to intentionally avoid paying the fare.....

 

....and yeah, I notice b/o's opening up the back door @ overly crowded stops also.... That's like implicating to me that a crooked cop is a good cop because he's a cop.....

 

No matter how you slice it, a b/o encouraging farebeating doesn't make it any more correct - morally & lawfully speaking....

 

 

2) If you pay with coins, then what on earth would you need a refund for.... You're paying the fare.

[B35 via Church]

There was one time years ago on the M86 the b/o waived me in via the back of the bus because the front of the bus was full. I did show him I had a student MC. So I guess in that instance it didn't matter since for me I was heading home anyway and it was a transfer as I got off the at CPW. That to date was the only time I was ever waived in via the back for a regular bus line (not counting the shuttle or the SBS lines).

Don't know how I missed this post...

 

But yes, not counting the shuttles or SBS's.... Out of all the commutes & fantrips I've done, I've never had a situation where a b/o directed me to board through the back of the bus.... Boarding through the back doesn't bode well with me; I even feel uneasy doing it w/ the shuttles (in the rare occasion I take them damned things) & SBS'.... then again, you won't find me actively/with determination trying to board a bus that's already overly crowded..... One reason is because I don't like maneuvering my way out of (nevermind into) a crowded bus; that's how arguments/altercations start....

 

Now that I mention it, I do notice that people make more of a fuss upon someone bumping into them upon exiting a bus...

More often than not, when you bump into someone in lieu of boarding a bus, people are a little more tolerant/lenient....

 

In any event, As long as it involves paying the fare, I say you do what you have to do to increase your chances of boarding a bus.... even if it means walking back a couple stops (like what some do over here w/ the B35 in the morning), leaving earlier (as was already mentioned).... or, worst-case scenario, reverse-commuting to the first stop if the situation is soooo dire... At that point, the MTA would almost be forced to increasing service during a particular hour by at least 1 bus or w/e, if everyone resorted to that extreme......

[checkmatechamp13]

1) ....and yeah, I notice b/o's opening up the back door @ overly crowded stops also.... That's like implicating to me that a crooked cop is a good cop because he's a cop.....

 

No matter how you slice it, a b/o encouraging farebeating doesn't make it any more correct - morally & lawfully speaking....

 

2) If you pay with coins, then what on earth would you need a refund for.... You're paying the fare.

 

 

1) No, I've seen it done where there was only one or two people at the stop (this was just an instance where it stood out, because the guy didn't look like a "typical" S46 rider). The B/O didn't even give the people the option of coming in through the front because there was no room.

 

2) If you had a transfer on the MetroCard that wasn't accepted, or if you had a Student MetroCard, or an Unlimited MetroCard, that means you paid a fare when you should've gotten on for free.

[B35 via Church]

1) No, I've seen it done where there was only one or two people at the stop (this was just an instance where it stood out, because the guy didn't look like a "typical" S46 rider). The B/O didn't even give the people the option of coming in through the front because there was no room.

 

2) If you had a transfer on the MetroCard that wasn't accepted, or if you had a Student MetroCard, or an Unlimited MetroCard, that means you paid a fare when you should've gotten on for free.

 

1- That particular comment was speaking in general, of b/o's that open the back door for that reason (farebeating encouragement).....

 

Anyway, as far as this scenario you're making an example of.....

If nobody was getting off at that stop, then that's all on the bus driver.... Just flag that stop & keep it pushin....

Especially for some 1 person/2 people seeking to board a bus that's just that crowded........

 

2) Then you explain to the driver that you have a transfer on the card.... If you know you have a xfer left on the card, you wouldn't commence paying in coins..... If the driver's not buying it (mind you, this is on a bus w/ a faulty farebox), again, take another bus.....

[BrooklynIRT]

But from what I'm getting from your last 2 posts, seems to me you're more miffed that the problem w/ faulty MVM's weren't pointed out on the bus (SBS) side of things

 

Spot on. Not only that, but also I find the MTA spokesman very hypocritical for not saying they will do something about this problem or at least admitting this was/is their screw-up, while at the same time having the audacity to cry foul about people farebeating when they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery.

 

Especially when he should know that this problem is much worse and more widespread on the SBS side than on the subway side. Point there is that this problem is much worse and more widespread within another department of MTA (and NYCT at that), thus he should know about it and at least acknowledge it. And I have the lingering fear that these things deter people from using the system, but again we are in a recession, and as 7LineFan said...

 

...I don't think someone leaving early specifically to counteract problems like these would be too deterred from taking the system over and over again.

 

I certainly hope not. Still, that spokesman makes it seem like MTA is 100% right in this case and the "farebeater" is 100% wrong and he pontificates about farebeating in a situation where MTA deserves at least some blame. Especially if they expect people to enjoy (or at least not get annoyed) using the system.

[checkmatechamp13]

1- That particular comment was speaking in general, of b/o's that open the back door for that reason (farebeating encouragement).....

 

Anyway, as far as this scenario you're making an example of.....

If nobody was getting off at that stop, then that's all on the bus driver.... Just flag that stop & keep it pushin....

Especially for some 1 person/2 people seeking to board a bus that's just that crowded........

 

2) Then you explain to the driver that you have a transfer on the card.... If you know you have a xfer left on the card, you wouldn't commence paying in coins..... If the driver's not buying it (mind you, this is on a bus w/ a faulty farebox), again, take another bus.....

 

 

1) My catchphrase is "there's always more space in the back". Apparently, the B/O felt the same way, and aside from that, the next stop was a large drop-off point, so it's not like the B/O was going to be carrying that heavy load for miles on end. (I mean, he'd probably get hit with a heavy load further down, but at least he'd be temporaily relieved of the load)

 

2) That's not what I'm referring to. I'm just saying that technically, that's what you're supposed to do. I'm not saying I agree with it, nor am I saying that there would likely be a position where you'd be forced into doing so (even if there was an undercover on board, he'd probably let you slide)

[INDman]

It's only $2.25, thats not ALOT of money. If you can't pay, you don't ride. If the MVM is down, find another one. Mass transit is a privilage, not a right.

[Gorgor]

It's only $2.25, thats not ALOT of money. If you can't pay, you don't ride. If the MVM is down, find another one. Mass transit is a privilage, not a right.

 

 

Your post makes absolutely no sense.

 

According to the original post, the person in question was going to pay the $2.25 fare but the machine was broken. Money's not the problem at all; it's the major inconvenience, and they shouldn't have to go walk up those steps, walk 3 blocks, and then reenter because the MTA screwed up. If I were in his position then I would've definitely done the same thing and hopped because the metrocard machine was busted, but I think that having a Councilman come out and say this, which people can twist to say that he supports fare beating, is wrong.

[B35 via Church]

...but I think that having a Councilman come out and say this, which people can twist to say that he supports fare beating, is wrong.

 

“I told her to go under,” Jackson said. “I would have gone under.

“Whoever goes to buy a MetroCard should be entitled to a free ride if the machines aren’t working, if there’s no token booth clerk there,” he added.

 

.....were his own words.

 

How else do you interpret someone that specifically directs someone to go under a turnstile without paying the fare....

Don't know about you, but I see that is a deliberate attempt to not pay the fare - which is the very definition of farebeating.

 

So it's no twisting of words... It's putting 2 & 2 together.

 

If you direct someone to engage in an act of farebeating, and you flat out say yourself that you would engage in an act of farebeating.... then you support farebeating....

[B35 via Church]

That's not what I'm referring to. I'm just saying that technically, that's what you're supposed to do. I'm not saying I agree with it, nor am I saying that there would likely be a position where you'd be forced into doing so (even if there was an undercover on board, he'd probably let you slide)

Nah dude, even if you're not sayin you agree with it or not sayin that there'd be a great likeliness of being forced into such a position, you're backtracking here.... Don't tell me that's not what you're referring to when I'm exposing your retorts to questions regarding your commentary of the original position you brought up (which is this whole what you're "technically" supposed to do, bit).....

 

Kicking this whole sub-discussion off, you said:

- "if the farebox says "Read Error", people always side with the rider, even though technically, you're supposed to pay the fare and apply for a refund"

 

* I replied to that by asking, how do you pay the fare if the farebox keeps giving you a read error....

(thought it was obvious we're talking about by way of the MC... but let's continue with your reply to this)....

 

* You answered that by saying you could pay with coins

(I was gonna ask, suppose the person doesn't have coins - then what.... But I entertained your back-to-the-wall response)

 

* I then asked, so why would you need a refund for if you pay with coins...

 

- You then bring up scenarios (xfer on an MC, student MC, unl. MC) that doesn't support that previous answer of paying with coins....

 

* I reply to that by saying, you explain to the driver that you had a transfer on the card, if you knew you had one on there....

(YOU brought up transfers dude, not me)

 

- Your reply to that is..... That's not what you're talking about.... LMAO.

(I never once ventured off from the direct answers you gave to my inquiries)

 

 

^^^....and that my friends is how you stymy someone....

You pigeonholed yourself when you decided to bring up that whole coin argument...

(again, even if you're not sayin you agree with it)...

---------------------------

 

 

Yes, It's not the rider's fault that a farebox is faulty, nor is it the b/o's fault if the case is as such.....

(to add to this, riders are not required to carry a wad of coins around, just in case they come upon a bus w/ a faulty MC reader)

 

Yes, it's a catch-22 situation - you can't pay the fare w/ the MC if the MC reader on the farebox isn't reading properly....

 

* If the b/o sees you made a valiant attempt at trying to pay the fare w/ the MC & he waves you on, that is NOT farebeating.... Your authorization to ride the bus has been granted in this case...

- If the b/o sees you made a valiant attempt at trying to pay the fare & he does not wave you on, it becomes farebeating if you make your way onto the bus from that point on.... Your authorization to ride the bus hasn't been granted in this case....

 

You say your catchphrase is "there's always more space in the back".....

Maybe so, but that does not mean you're entitled, under any circumstances, to avoid paying the fare......

Just b/c you have the ability to do wrong doesn't mean wrong all of a sudden, becomes right....

 

Any position that supports the advocation of breaking the law does not hold water.