Sometimes farebeating is OK, says City Councilman Robert Jackson

[checkmatechamp13]

That doesn't solve the problem at all. What's to stop people from saying that they got on at "X stop" even if they didn't?

 

 

Ideally, the people wouldn't blurt it out for all to hear that the machines were broken.

 

If I went to a SBS stop and ALL the machines were broken, then I would just take the local, but thats just me.

 

 

If I were in good physical shape, I'd run over to the next stop (say, from 42nd Street to 34th Street or whatever) and get a working machine there.

[Grand Concourse]

If I went to a SBS stop and ALL the machines were broken, then I would just take the local, but thats just me.

 

For that instance, I would report it to the b/o. Not really fair to have to walk elsewhere because the machine doesn't work.

 

I agree with the person that said the SBS machines should give off some sort of indication if they are broken. It is the MTA's responsibility to make sure those machines all work.

[B35 via Church]

If I went to a SBS stop and ALL the machines were broken, then I would just take the local, but thats just me.

 

I would take the local either way.... Never liked the idea of pay before you board, but that's another topic....

[Astoria Line]

For that instance, I would report it to the b/o. Not really fair to have to walk elsewhere because the machine doesn't work.

 

I agree with the person that said the SBS machines should give off some sort of indication if they are broken. It is the MTA's responsibility to make sure those machines all work.

 

 

Taking a local wouldn't require walking.. Aren't the SBS and local stops on the same block? I used to live near the 1st avenue station nd the M15 SBS and local stops were on the same block.

[Astoria Line]

Ideally, the people wouldn't blurt it out for all to hear that the machines were broken.

 

 

 

If I were in good physical shape, I'd run over to the next stop (say, from 42nd Street to 34th Street or whatever) and get a working machine there.

 

 

It really depends on the distance. If it was 8 blocks then that's not bad, but if its something like 14th street to Houston like on the M15, then hell no i'll just take the local.. Many people can't walk much at all tho due to health complications of course, its all about personal fitness.

[B35 via Church]

Taking a local wouldn't require walking.. Aren't the SBS and local stops on the same block? I used to live near the 1st avenue station nd the M15 SBS and local stops were on the same block.

 

Sure is....

 

There aren't any stops that the SBS buses makes that the locals don't....

[Grand Concourse]

Not sure. I guess they are at the same locations. But some stops around the chinatown area seems to be SBS or regular M15 service only. Either way, I'd tell the b/o first. If that doesn't work, I guess take the local.

 

I do like the pay before boarding thing as now I can board via any door than wait for everyone to 'get off the front'. This is much faster. The obvious flaw is the seemingly lack of enforcement that might allow for farebeaters to just board without bothering to use the machines.

[7LineFan]

Ideally, the people wouldn't blurt it out for all to hear that the machines were broken.

 

Ah, but they have to. Once you see and hear people in your immediate vicinity tell the fare inspectors that the machines at x stop are broken... there's your excuse.

[Astoria Line]

Not sure. I guess they are at the same locations. But some stops around the chinatown area seems to be SBS or regular M15 service only. Either way, I'd tell the b/o first. If that doesn't work, I guess take the local.

 

I do like the pay before boarding thing as now I can board via any door than wait for everyone to 'get off the front'. This is much faster. The obvious flaw is the seemingly lack of enforcement that might allow for farebeaters to just board without bothering to use the machines.

 

 

I agree, by telling the b/o that means that the MTA will find out about it somehow and they will be able to fix it..

I would advise customers to take the local in that case, as the MTA will still make revenue from ppl boarding a local bus and paying than an SBS without paying....

 

The pay before boarding makes it easier for ppl to board/exit and makes the trip quicker, but as with any plan, there is a flaw, in this case it is the reliability of the machines...

[BrooklynIRT]

Grand Concourse, lack of enforcement may be a flaw but riders being summonsed when they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery is far and away the worst flaw.

 

the MTA will still make revenue from ppl boarding a local bus

 

Unless it is somebody like myself and a lot of others who want to deal with locals as little as possible.

 

This is what I was alluding to when I said "of course they can forget about getting more people to use buses if the ticket machines are broken and people realize that they can expect to be summonsed to court if they even bother stepping on a SBS bus, even if they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery" in post #34: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35157-sometimes-farebeating-is-ok-says-city-councilman-robert-jackson/page__st__20?do=findComment&comment=538848

 

It is true that restructuring local/limited bus routes to go where people want to go and operating them more frequently is one way to encourage bus use, but this by itself is not the only measure that must be taken.

[Gorgor]

You guys keep saying to just take the local as if dealing with a much slower ride is no problem. If all the machines are busted, I'd just get on and get a ticket at the next stop. No way that I'm inconveniencing myself because the MTA screwed up.

 

Now I've only seen fare inspectors on the M15 SBS a few times, and I've taken that bus so often, but if you're getting off the bus when they get on, they don't stop you right?

[BrooklynIRT]

Sometimes they do, though it is much easier when the people are not exiting in droves. The first time an inspector asked me to show my ticket on a M15 SBS (I have had to show it on two occasions), I had noticed that the inspector asked people who were exiting the bus to show their tickets before he entered the bus. This was on a Sunday and there were not that many people on the bus.

 

The second time I was asked to show my ticket was during PM rush hour and the bus was crowded. That time I did not notice whether the inspector asked people who were exiting to show their tickets.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You guys keep saying to just take the local as if dealing with a much slower ride is no problem. If all the machines are busted, I'd just get on and get a ticket at the next stop. No way that I'm inconveniencing myself because the MTA screwed up.

 

Now I've only seen fare inspectors on the M15 SBS a few times, and I've taken that bus so often, but if you're getting off the bus when they get on, they don't stop you right?

 

 

I haven't been asked for my receipt yet because I've generally used the M15 SBS for short distances, but the whole point of being a checker is to catch people because they know that folks are looking to scam the system. I remember when I was living back in Italy... I had come from doing some shopping and I got on one of the three door buses and I thought to myself ugh I'm tired and I don't feel like stamping my ticket right now since I had bags and such, but then I said you'd better stamp it now even though the bus is practically empty. Sure enough as soon as I stamped my ticket and went back to my seat (in Europe they have the three door buses and they have room for ticket stamping machines on the buses (there are three on each of the three door buses)) an undercover agent approached me and said "biglietto..." (Ticket in English) and I was thinking now imagine being fined for being lazy and waiting to stamp the ticket a few stops down...

[Interested Rider]

I have read the various posts about Councilman Robert Jackson and while I disagree with his statement concerning having his wife ducking under a turnstile (I would have walked to a place where there is an agent when the card does not work), I think that there is something else here.

 

Councilman Robert Jackson is not your typical politician as he was a field representative for the Public Employees Federation and later supervisor of field representatives for the Public Employees Federation New York City Office prior to being elected to the New York City Council. He was the best representative that I (and many of my colleagues would agree) had representing me throughout my career. Knowing Mr. Jackson the way I know him, it is my opinion that he made the statement to illustrate the problem of having unmanned stations and machines that break down. What he is illustrating in his statement is that everyone has to make this decision when you have a metro card that does not work according to the turnstile and there is no station agent. Mr Jackson is saying that even New York City Council persons have to do it as they too are being disenfranchised by the lack of station agents. I am not saying that I support farebeating, I find it totally disgusting. What I am saying is every person acts differently and make their own decisions based on their personal values. What I find refreshing is that he is being honest.

 

For the record, I had a similiar problem on the first Saturday of May when I had the funds transferred from one metro card to another as it was expiring at the end of the month. It was changed at Sheepshead Bay Station by the agent and I swiped it there. When I tried it at the southbound 23rd Street R Station (where there is no agent) about 4 hours later, it did not work. After trying to swipe the card about fifteen times, I finally went across the street and spoke to the agent about my problem and she issued me a new card on the spot.

[B35 via Church]

After trying to swipe the card about fifteen times, I finally went across the street and spoke to the agent about my problem and she issued me a new card on the spot.

 

Just goes to show there are other options.

[-CT1660-]

I've actually had the situation when the vending machines at the 103rd st station had problems encoding my Metrocard payment TWICE. I lost about $15 total as a result, and had no choice but to spend an additional $15 (total) as i had no time to wait for the Q23 to transfer to the Q66 (would have avoided that problem as i paid with coins on the vending machine both times). While i don't support farebeating, i find it unfair that it doesn't refund your money on the spot whenever the vending machines fail to encode your payment into the metrocard, only to give you a receipt instructing you to call 511 just to have to mail in your Metrocard for the refund. The average commuter won't have that time to do that lengthy process and would expect the machines to work reliably each time as much as possible.

 

The second time it failed to encode the payment, the Metrocard i was using ceased to function, and would state that the Metrocard was unrefillable, when it previously accepted the Metrocard fine.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've actually had the situation when the vending machines at the 103rd st station had problems encoding my Metrocard payment TWICE. I lost about $15 total as a result, and had no choice but to spend an additional $15 (total) as i had no time to wait for the Q23 to transfer to the Q66 (would have avoided that problem as i paid with coins on the vending machine both times). While i don't support farebeating, i find it unfair that it doesn't refund your money on the spot whenever the vending machines fail to encode your payment into the metrocard, only to give you a receipt instructing you to call 511 just to have to mail in your Metrocard for the refund. The average commuter won't have that time to do that lengthy process and would expect the machines to work reliably each time as much as possible.

 

The second time it failed to encode the payment, the Metrocard i was using ceased to function, and would state that the Metrocard was unrefillable, when it previously accepted the Metrocard fine.

 

 

It's another example of the making money off of the riding public... If it takes them 3 months or more to refund you then that is money they get to hold on to and make money off of (interest)... Now imagine doing that to thousands of people...

[Grand Concourse]

lol, I miss the days of the tokens. You have just the single slug, put it in and be done with it. No fuss at all. The only good thing about the cards are the transfers and that's it. I forgot, when you bought a pack of tokens, was there a discount on that or it was full price regardless of how many you buy?

[mark1447]

I've actually had the situation when the vending machines at the 103rd st station had problems encoding my Metrocard payment TWICE. I lost about $15 total as a result, and had no choice but to spend an additional $15 (total) as i had no time to wait for the Q23 to transfer to the Q66 (would have avoided that problem as i paid with coins on the vending machine both times). While i don't support farebeating, i find it unfair that it doesn't refund your money on the spot whenever the vending machines fail to encode your payment into the metrocard, only to give you a receipt instructing you to call 511 just to have to mail in your Metrocard for the refund. The average commuter won't have that time to do that lengthy process and would expect the machines to work reliably each time as much as possible.

 

The second time it failed to encode the payment, the Metrocard i was using ceased to function, and would state that the Metrocard was unrefillable, when it previously accepted the Metrocard fine.

 

 

Yeah I agree. The MTA should consider refunding at the S/A (if money is available) or allow S/As to also be consider an alternative to using the MVM. I can see why there are SOME folks who end up asking others for money because of the machine eating up the green and not having anymore money. IF they are telling the truth.

 

Of course, its always good to carry some cash with you.

[-CT1660-]

They need to start reprogramming the MVM's so that it refunds the money on the spot if it fails to encode a MetroCard, and not this tedious lengthy process....

 

4th time it happens and tired of it...

 

[AndrewJC]

They need to start reprogramming the MVM's so that it refunds the money on the spot if it fails to encode a MetroCard, and not this tedious lengthy process....

 

4th time it happens and tired of it...

 

 

That's never happened to me. (Granted, I usually pay by credit card.) In fact, I've never even heard of it happening until now.

 

From that receipt, it looks like the machine attempted to refund your cash but failed. Fortunately, there's still a mechanism for you to get your money back, even if it is inconvenient.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

well anyway Mr Councilman SHOULD HAVE A METROCARD with sufficient value with him at ALL times plus the rules of conduct clearly says you cant do that even if you have that issue

[Threxx]

They need to start reprogramming the MVM's so that it refunds the money on the spot if it fails to encode a MetroCard, and not this tedious lengthy process....

 

4th time it happens and tired of it...

 

 

Same thing happened to my mom, took her 11 months to get the money back. 11 MONTHS! It's just four dollars, don't sweat it. It's not worth your time...

[Grand Concourse]

11 months? Damn, I thought it was usually 6-8 weeks. Must be the under staffing.

[-CT1660-]

Same thing happened to my mom, took her 11 months to get the money back. 11 MONTHS! It's just four dollars, don't sweat it. It's not worth your time...

 

 

stack the lost money, you'll be surprised..i've lost about $40 total..