MysteriousBtrain

It should be noted that as of today's bus committee presentation, it's said that the 60 AEBs (4965-5024) is underway for acceptance for 4 depots. That means there is another cut besides Jamaica depot. Most likely the cut depot is Charleston or ENY as the other 3 have tested a kind of XE bus, the latter I'm going with bc I'm not sure ENY finished with construction with their own projects there yet.

Besides towards kbcc, it's largely useless. Nearly half of the (uptown) route is already duplicated by the B44-SBS

And not speculation and what you think should be retired please. It's fine to go off topic every once in awhile but also I don't need to come here to see what I need to put in my scrap list and there's nothing relevant at all for any of us. For that just use the random thoughts thread: https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/26457-bus-random-thoughts-thread/

Most I seen in this "update" is that they'll be done with outreach by the end of spring 2024.

Since the Bx15 somehow became even shorter than the Bx41 it would be a good candidate to go into LaGuardia. Needs to be a little bit more useful than being a "Third Avenue bus"

This is exactly why we keep telling people don't rely on bots or trackers and see it in person.

Not mentioned but 1204 KB->WF. Official transfer as of the last couple days

As long as we're on this topic, the QM Union Tpke routes in the new plan was actually the one good exp proposal. Imo should have kept it like that. Another thing I would change is giving the QM63/64/68 direct access to Bellevue during AM hours. It's easy access from FDR and idk why it would be skipped if the stop is retained during PM hrs. (Although 2 Av is the added, I don't see this stop being a suitable replacement if there's enough Bellevue riders that complain.)

Bold is currently on the M86

Scrapped is another word for retired until it's official the MTA Is saving that unit

The main problem is fare evasion is pushed to us so rare nearly everyone said f**k it and dosent pay. If the MTA isn't gonna make you pay why bother. Even NYPD doesn't always give tickets and let people through. And when the authorities are challenged it's never anyone staying "up to 7 years in prison". If the policies were pushed it wouldn't be as big a problem as today but crime is at a point where NYPD can't keep up and it's clearly not hidden.

The first part, I felt NIMBYs had a huge play in the Q73 not being a factor in the final plan. The second part, idk I thought that too bit if it was gonna go further east I would give it a LTD variant. But the current eastern terminal is good as is What I may be more interested in is if the Q64 was able to be extended west connecting Glendale Mall to Forest Hills for easier connections of the mall and the . (One could argue or won't really do much but it's also a way to take ease from the long ride to Victor Moore so I feel 50/50 on this).

If you have to ask why the OGs are still alive, you don't know how retirement/delivery works The NG units are beat up bad, and MTA is just getting to retire the remainder of the OGs. Be patient.

Hmm, the Q75 via 73 Av to Forest Hills sounds ok. Or basically, a Q73/75 combo.

I never read up on anything about NYCT getting another CNG order after the XN60s. Only AEB, Diesel, and/or Diesel Hybrid. I have 110 CNGs for MTA in my latest update, but the last time I did an update was months ago, around the MTA LFS and Xcelsior options were exercised. These buses were not included in the 2020-24 or 2025-29 plans iirc, just proposals.

That's info from the latest committee book or something? I did remember hearing about a proposal for 200+ cngs for MTA, don't remember about NYCT; thought they were gonna be phased out by AEBs (specifically, the WF batch)

There may still be changes here and there similar to the Bx28/34. Remember this is a proposed final plan as there may still be a bit of pushback, especially at Floral Park.

I feel for Staten Island, it won't be (exactly) the same, just most limiteds turning into rush routes if that makes sense. Most route basically run in that matter, but the S93 may stay a Limited for stops sake.

That's basically how I feel Also I'm not saying this should happen, but the Q17 being rush along Kissena and Horace Harding feels like a missed opportunity. Guess it's because of the high ridership in both areas so I can't be mad.

As the Queens redesign gets closer to implementation, one thing I thought would be interesting is the idea of how much different the Bronx redesign might be if they was the ones to implement Rush routes first. Here's the changes in the system I had in mind in the style of the Queens and Brooklyn Bus redesign: Bx1 Limited: all current stops; but added Sunday Limited service from 10AM-6PM similar to Saturday service, evening local service Bx7 Rush: limited stops south of 225 St (requires expanded Bx20 or M100 extension) or 207 St, stopping only at 191 St, 181 St, GWB bus terminal and 168 St. Local replacement: M100 and/or Bx20 Bx21 Rush: Selected stops on 3 Av only, stopping at 138 St, 148 St, Westchester Av/150 St, and 163 St. Local replacement: Bx2/15 Bx22 Rush: it can either be nonstop from Bronx Park East or Southern Blvd all the way to 3 Av. Local replacement: Bx12 Bx26 Rush: service would be provided at least during peak hours on Allerton Av, evening and weekend service all stops. Nonstop between Bartow Av and Boston Rd, with only one stop at Eastchester Rd. Local replacement: Bx25 Bx28 Limited: would be only making select stops on Gun Hill Road during weekdays, evening and weekend service all stops. Limited stops between Bainbridge Av and Bartow Av, including Webster Av, White Plains Rd, Bronxwood Av, Boston Rd, Gun Hill Road , and Eastchester Rd. Local replacement: Bx38 Bx40 Limited: Daily limited stops from approximately 6AM-9PM weekdays and 7:30AM-8PM weekends between Grand concourse and Bruckner Blvd. Limited stops include Webster Av, 3 Av, Crotona Av, Southern Blvd, Morris Park, Unionport Rd, Castle Hill Av, and Westchester Av. Local replacement: Bx42 Other proposals that require significant changes: Bx11 Rush: Requires an extension of the Bx18 to freeman St to be used as a local variant of the Bx11, not including any chance that would need to be done due to the Bx18A/B split. Service could also be under a new separate Bx51 local between 170 St and Freeman St. Bx11 rush stops would be between St Nicholas Av and 174 St , including 170 St and , Webster Av, 3 Av, Crotona Av, and Louis None Bl/Boston Rd. Local replacements: Bx35, Bx18/51, Bx21 Bx12 service split: This would turn the Bx12 into 3 separate routes from the current 4 branches (including the Orchard branch). The Bx12 SBS would remain unchanged, a new Bx14 designation would be introduced replacing the Bx12 Local (mimicking the proposed Q5/115), and a new Bx52 rush route would be introduced to supplement the Bx12 SBS. The Bx52 would make all stops west of Jerome Av. East of Jerome Av, stops would only be at Fordham Plaza, White Plains Rd, Eastchester Rd/Jacobi Medical, and Pelham Bay. All missed stops would be served by the Bx12/14. During summer months, service would be extended to Orchard Beach. Service to Orchard Beach could possibly be supplemented by the Bx14, but to simplify designations, it makes more sense for orchard beach to only use the Bx52. Bx19 Local/Bx49 Rush: a proposed Bx19 split, with the Bx19 ending at Bronx terminal Market instead of going to Manhattan and the Bx49 Rush operating between Riverbank Park and West Farms at Southern Blvd/Westchester Av or near Whitlock Av . Bx49 makes all stop in Manhattan, with proposed Bronx Stops at Grand Concourse, 3 Av, Prospect Av/Southern Blvd, Hunts Point Av, and the above West Farms stops Bx9 Local/Bx59 SBS: another proposed split route, with no Bx19 east of Fordham Plaza and the Bx59 making select stops between Marble Hill and West Farms. Stops include Marble Hill Av/W 230 St, W 225 St/Broadway, Jerome Av, 3 Av/Fordham Plaza, Southern Blvd/E 183 St, E 180 St/Crotona Pkwy, and West Farms . Local service would be available via the Bx9, Bx12, Bx19, and Bx42.

This got me thinking, if Nova Bus isn't gonna be compatible with the Buy America Act, is the 5 LFSe+ still on their way to delivery? Iirc the 5 buses were to be delivered 4th quarter 2023/early 2024 but plans may have shifted after the fact of no more American operations.

Seems MTA will go straight NF as Proterra and Nova Bus are shifting operations to a point where they aren't able to "build buses anymore". Also to note BYD also provided proposals but doesn't seem like they are able to meet MTA qualifications.

Surprised nothing was mentioned about the 90 electric bus order, which would most likely be XE60s. Those buses was supposed to be delivered beginning in 2024.

Ok putting the remaining thoughts I have on the other half of the local routes Q51: I'm just kinda laughing bc the Q51 is one of the few routes bound to al least have decent ridership. Wonder if simple adjustments to the Q9A/89 and properly ending it at the subway would have saved it up to this moment. Q52/53: so much tampering only for it to just be left alone. How ironic /s Q54: how funny it would have been if the Q38 or even the Q14 extended to WBP while the Q54 ended at FP and metropolitan? Feel like it could have made things better using either or. Q55. So basically a couple blocks extension. Does myrtle Av need an extension this far east? Shortest extension would at least be at Jamaica -Van Wick if so. Q56: nothing for me to note Q58/98: only thing I see is division of ridership (in Corona). Q58 could have been it's own idea like in the previous redesign. Q59: the west portion (in Brooklyn) seems pointless now Q60: Think if the MTA takes away a few more stops this route could qualify for a conversion to a limited (according to the redesign)? Q61: all I'm seeing is a relabeled Q34 made to absorb part of the Q16. Q62: idk what I'm seeing, but if there's something that sounds like a pita, it's a Flushing - Beechurst route via College Point Q63: literally the Q66 is it not? Q64: Probably the best if left intact. Got me thinking though, would an extension to Atlas Mall or Queens Center would be worth it (rather the former than the latter) Q65: Like the cut north of flushing Q66: so a little reroute and no stops on bs segments make it a rush? You can't tell me Northern Blvd wouldn't want some kind of SBS service. Ridership should be around to at least make qualifications Q67: nothing to note Q68: B24 split is ok, just thinking exactly how can you exactly terminate a Q68 in a decent enough area in Queens? Queens plaza? Steinway? The current terminal? Q69: now it absorbed the Q100. Think it would work out if the MTA monitors this route good (they won't) Q70: it really needs a comment? Q72: I don't think it really has business being extended in a Queens Center loop Q75: LOL I can't believe they made a decent Q75 into some stupid Union Turnpike variant. There was nothing wrong with the Q17/75 plan in the new draft. Pretty sure this is really only around because of the complaints about the Q17 and there was extra left over and needed to make a route for job and union purposes Q76: feels indifferent to me Q77: so since there's no Q78 anymore, an extension south would make everything satisfying for coverage purposes? Might as well make a Bay Terrace-Queens village route with the Q75 money you're pointlessly spending Q82: I took it as an inside joke and said, how many Q2s can we split to get that Jamaica Av route? Q83: see they caught me off guard. The proposed Q83 would maintain its existing routing" but they don't mention the Q83 late night service to Queens Village being permanently discontinued. Not that I care for it. Q84/85: kinda fin having the Q5 do all their Merrick work to make these routes faster. Q86/87: so now there the Q5, plus the Q84-87. Well whatever line goes to Rosedale (I don't remember which one) looks like a bit of an improvement Q88: one has to wonder if the Q73 survived would it even be in 73 Av before Queens Village? Q101: well MOST of this route remains. Ik 2 Av is not exactly the routes highest ridership generator so Q102/104/105: listen I'm just glad Roosevelt Island service isn't "merged with another corridor" and the Q104 is one of those routes I don't mind serving it since it's kind of an unofficial Astoria Shuttle. Q103: always thought this route should stay, but I am open to a Court Sq reroute Q110: Basically a way to straighten Jamaica Av service. as long as it's not the monster of a Q57. Q111-115: those riders that want straight Far Rockaway - Jamaica service gonna be mad. Only thing I really find interested is the Q111 short turn gets its own route name. B53: sure but my question is why merge a Broadway (Brooklyn) and Williamsburg West- Queens connector route? B57: now seeing it cut back to Downtown Brooklyn since the Brooklyn redesign, I'm not gonna say I don't like it as much as before, just wanna say there's something else that many others pointed out that make it feel off B62: for the love of, why is this the one thing that remains in this redesign?

Since I got to reviewing the map the last couple days I'll give my final thoughts on the proposed changes: Q1: Glad they did not combine it with the Q6 as well as extended it to the LIRR Q2: Indifferent about it Q3: it's funny bc I still feel like they planning on having this jfk route change permanent even if they don't outright say it anymore Q4: disappointed with the Elmont cut back Q5: They turned it into the Q115 of Merrick Blvd. Looks fine to me Q6: see Q1 Q7: Would have liked it to go at least up to JFK Depot or around there Q8: you guys thing riders prefer the 3 over the mall? The demand is there, the question is what route? Q9: baffled how it got one bs extension in favor of the Q37 extension. Q10: glad it's not being combined with the Q64 Q11: if nobody pointed it out, I would have missed the part where 3 routes are put into 1 (the Q11 branches+ Q21). That said, I'm trying to figure out where exactly it terminates. It looks like it goes via Hamilton Beach, then terminates at Old Howard Beach. If I'm even understanding it correctly. Lord, if I'm confused af about the terminals, imagine the headaches the riders here will feel. Q12/13: basically swapped western routes, with the Q13 having the rush portion Q14: I knew I wasn't bugging when I saw the Q14 end at Fresh Pond (not the station or depot) Q15: so basically the old 14 is back just "more direct" with the Q62 replacing the remaining segment. Ehh Q16: it never really made sense why the Q16 had 2 branches but no lettering to reflect it. I did feel the Willets point branch the weakest though. Q17: one thing I'm starting to notice starting here is how most of the Limited routes are basically just rebranded locals on busy corridors for the most part. Also don't see why the Q17 needs to be a thing sounds of Horace Harding when you (had) the Q75, more in a bit when I get to the Q75 Q18: just straightened out in maspeth Q19: how easy it would have been to have the Q19 absorbed most of the Q48 bus invuyriders weren't having it Q20: is 14 Av more served than 20 Av? Seems more like 14 Av is just around for coverage Q22: we all saw the cut west of 116 coming Q23: this is a route I'm glad was cut, both in the current stand redesign Q24: another route we saw getting cut, but in favor of another bus route Q25: I kinda liked the idea of a Q25 split at Flushing. But if there's a Q62 that'll mimic some of the route north, I guess there's no need Q26: speaking of split at Flushing, the Q65 North will be absorbed into the lighter route, which I see as a W Q27: no more Holly Av is all I care about Q28: Another rush route barely changed, just "faster service Q29: no more discontinuation and just basically unchanged Q30: let's see if there's gonna be any protests about losing Little Neck service Q31: the straightening seems good on paper, not sure how Bayside residents gonna feel Q32: is this the only route that's gonna skipping the "Queensboro Plaza segment"? (Just checked slightly before posting and thank God the Q60 doing the same thing) Q33: welcome back to LGA, but it's the other side instead Q35: saw coming Q36: I don't hate that the Q36 stays in this form Q37: ok, so if the Q37 "needs" to go to JFK, just make a separate branch for it, probably like a Q97 using the Q37 north of Rockaway Blvd and the 130 Av branch of the Q10 south and bypassing Aqueduct. Only reason I see this extension came to be is for interlining with the Q10 and possible conversion to artics Q38: only the south segment remains Q39: nothing I notice changing Q40: anything changed before beside the rush and the minor reroute no longer happening? Q41: no more Q109 and the Howard Beach segment remaining Q42: no more worthless extension to the hospital Q43: could care less about adding an LIJ segment Q44: the Fordham segment could be a different route if it even will be a route anymore Q45/46/48: new routes all for the purpose of tryna divide the Union Tpke ridership. At least that Q23 extension/reroute no longer happening Q47: basically taking the Q33 to 94 St, but would a longer segment really be worth it? Q49: could have sworn this route was proposed originally as a LTD, too lazy to check Q50: has no business going on Roosevelt and 108. Will cover the remainder of the routes in a later post to reduce clutter, need a break from all this typing anyway